Need Input on my Groundstrokes and Serve

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by POGO, Apr 28, 2005.

  1. POGO

    POGO Hall of Fame

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    #1
  2. Thomas

    Thomas Rookie

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    Don't spin the racquet between groundstrokes, very bad idea. And serve has some form problems.
     
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  3. Tennis_baller

    Tennis_baller Rookie

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    I like your groundstrokes. But yeah, you need to work on your service motion form.
     
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  4. POGO

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    Yea, my serve is my weak part. What exactly should I work on my serve?
     
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  5. Thomas

    Thomas Rookie

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    You're foot faulting, no weight shift, loosen your wrist, and add a knee bend.
     
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  6. Tennis_baller

    Tennis_baller Rookie

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    Exactly what he said. but I'd prolly make it sound nicer/more encouraging. I know you didn't mean to sound mean though.
     
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  7. mucat

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    I think your toss is too close to you, try toss further in front of you. What do you guys think?
     
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  8. TwistServe

    TwistServe Guest

    I think your groundies need better use of the shoulders, legs, and knees. I like your backhand better than your forehand though.
     
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  9. alan-n

    alan-n Professional

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    Your forehand could use a bit more of your body turn / legs / weight transfer for more power.

    You are jumping up at your serve... Rather than transferring energy from a leg bend and uncoiling your body and weight into the serve for great racket head speed and power. It looks like you are just "going through the motion of serving" rather than doing what gets you results, meaning your racket head speed is awefully slow.
     
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  10. sebastiaN911

    sebastiaN911 New User

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    if i videotape myself playing how do i put it on the internet like that
     
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  11. obackvalobasha

    obackvalobasha Banned

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    trasfer in to your computer with USB and then make a little clip and then have it in a web page or something.

    First of all you suck. jking i also like your back hand your back hand is kind of like what my 6 months ago back hand use to look like mine. now i chnaged it alil and get my power from hips and try to take it early. also im little short like 5.5 so i have to jump or use my legs to get power.

    your forhand is you are swining too much you need to step in and hit the forhand try to take the ball lil early. also i think you have lil lazy lookin strocks but that could be just me. when i come back ill take a look at ur serv
     
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  12. takeuchi

    takeuchi Rookie

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    mucat i think you are right.

    Try tossing into the court a bit because it looks as if the toss is inhibiting your ability to fully accelerate.

    Try really stretching that tossing arm and leaning your hips out in the court a little (not so much that you fall over), so you feel it in you side/hips, then drive with the legs. If you do this you'll notice most of the driving will come from your left leg. Right now it looks like both legs do a little hop. You will have to get a nice knee bend and drive up towards the ball to uncoil your body.

    I agree with others saying you backhand looks better than your forehand. In your bh you have good preparation and a good shoulderturn. On the forehand it looks very unprepared. Get those shoulders turned. Use your left hand on the racket to get your shoulders back and shoot the left arm across you body as you backswing.
     
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  13. POGO

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    Yea, I my serves lack power, and I get much more spins on my serves and they seem to kick. Thanks for pointing out that I'm not tossing the ball to into the court enough which gives my serve more of a topspin/kick serve instead of a hard flat.

    Yes, I feel much more comfortable with my backhand and it is a much more consistant groundstroke than my forehand.

    Am I hitting late from what you all see? Do I have a full swing or a compact swing on my forehand? I use a full western grip. I do have too much of an open stance from what people tell me and after seeing the video I also see it.
     
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  14. TwistServe

    TwistServe Guest

    Your forehand stance is fine but I don't see any shoulder rotation or knee bend.. Also when you hit a forehand you should be moving forward. By the time you finish your forehand your momentum should push you forward or slightly to the left. In the clips its like you're doing a lazy stroke or you're in the process of doing a simple warmup.
     
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  15. POGO

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    Thanks TwistServe,

    I did another video of myself today showing me being run around from side to side. Would you comment on my groundstrokes on this latest clip and also my footwork?

    Latest groundstrokes: Click HERE
     
    #15
  16. donnyz89

    donnyz89 Hall of Fame

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    I cant imagine you not hurting your arm hitting forhands the way you do. I think we have very much and i mean VERY much similar ground game from the baseline. I dont know how well u play short balls and volleys.

    Forehands: open stance, i would guess u use semiwestern like me. One thing I think you really should try on your forehands is that you should turn more. You are way to offbalance, you are leaning back, your putting your weight on your right foot which are all signs of unforced errors and hitting balls into the net. I was like this just 4 month ago and still a lot of the times now but you really should considering more turning. the work on the legs... start with left shoulder facing the ball and end with right shoulder facing the ball. still use open stance which i think is a great stance, great top spin. I cant see how your balls land so cant really judge. and your weight should end on your left foot, your left foot shouldnt be in the air everytime u hit the ball.

    decent backhand...

    serve... eh, doest seem like a really scary serve, nor a consistant one. Show some clips of you really hitting that ball hard, then we can tell if u are really leaning and offbalance or are you just like this during warmups.
     
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  17. POGO

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    Yea, my serves are not hard, but I do have lots of spin on it so they land in the service box consistantly. My serve is a liability, easily attacked.

    Yea, I see what you are saying about my forehand. Not enough shoulder turn. I use a western grip and the spin helps keep the ball in the court.

    Did you see my latest clip? What do you think of this one. CLICK HERE
     
    #17
  18. Ken

    Ken Rookie

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    If you can erase your habit of rotating the racket between strokes (especially when switching from a backhand to a forehand), it'd help at least a little, and not just aesthetically pleasing.

    The reason being: As you're flipping your racket, it's definitely not in an ideal position to pull back, prepare for the shot, or run in. People tend (including you, as seen in the video) to start preparing or making adjustments only AFTER they flip their racket, so you're essentially shortening the amount of time you have to prepare. On slow or easy shots, this may be fine, but you WILL notice a difference on harder shots.

    On another note, it's pretty hard to see, but is your forehand stroke kind of compact? Unless your racket provides a lot of pop on its own, I'd push out more. It'll help with depth, pace, and produce topspin. The ball is on your racket longer, so it's also ideal for making last minute adjustments and control. i.e., when I'm playing doubles I'm able to see the net player moving in for a poach, and adjust to blast the ball down the line.
     
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  19. POGO

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    Thanks Ken for your input. Yes, I do have a bad habbit of twirling my racquet between shots. I guess it is the reason why I tend to hit late on my forehand. I'm not sure if I have a compact forehand.
    Would you look at my latest clip HERE

    The latest clip shows me running from side to side. Would you comment on my footwork and my groundstrokes with the latest clip of myself?

    Thanks,
     
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  20. Thomas

    Thomas Rookie

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    Don't lean back on forehands, push forwards. By leaning back you are losing power.

    EDIT: Where are you? The scenery is beautiful.
     
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  21. POGO

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    Thanks!! Its a public court by my house in La Canada, CA.

    Do you think I have a compact swing on my forehand?
     
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  22. TwistServe

    TwistServe Guest

    Just took a look at the clip and now I see an obvious flaw! You're hitting your forehands with your weight on your right foot, which is the wrong foot. You need to hold the weight on the right foot, usually done with a knee bend and shoulder turn, and transfer it to the left foot while you make contact. The backhand is looking good though. From that angle I can see a good weight transfer and some forward momentum.
     
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  23. Ken

    Ken Rookie

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    I'm looking at it again, but I just noticed you said you used a Western grip. Sorry I didn't see that before. I'm not too sure about pushing out, I don't have any experience with Western. However, just thinking "extend the palm" works extremely well with my SW, so I dunno.

    As everyone else said, your backhand looks fine. On your forehand open stance though, like donny said, I'd work on transferring momentum, or shifting your body weight forward. It looks like you're leaning back.

    Try to load your energy on the back foot, and lunge forward. All the power from the open stance comes from transferring the momentum from the back. It doesn't look like you're moving forward too much, and I wouldn't recommend a closed stance with your grip.

    edit:: On a quick note, your footwork doesn't look too bad, although I don't know too much about good footwork. You're splitstepping fine from what I can see at least.
     
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  24. obackvalobasha

    obackvalobasha Banned

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    take the ball early and move im and put your waight on the forhand.
     
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  25. donnyz89

    donnyz89 Hall of Fame

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    watched your latest clip...

    you need more shoulder turn, still find your left foot in the air at times. and your forehands and backhands both have very little knee bend and body turn. but you seem to have a pretty long rally so maybe it works out for you. but it might be hard to hit off balance shots when the shots are coming at your at a higher pace.
     
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  26. donnyz89

    donnyz89 Hall of Fame

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    and i assume u dont have membership to tennisplayer.net so here is a free sample or andy roddick's forehand...

    http://www.tennisplayer.net/public/avancedtennis/key_differences_grip_styles_articlesample.html

    for an open stance, u have to step out with your right foot and bend your left leg. the bending depend on the amount of time you have but the shot showed with Roddick is a really nice shot that you wont be hitting everyday. but also notice his complete shoulder rotation, thats the key point. if u dont jump or bend your legs as much, u HAVE to turn your shoulders, you are only at around 75% amount of turning is needed.
     
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  27. POGO

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    Thanks for that link!! It is certainly hepful to get an idea.
     
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  28. POGO

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  29. TwistServe

    TwistServe Guest

    I like that old man's stroke better... He has proper footwork, has timed the split step, and he has a good knee bend.. He also has a good shoulder turn as you can see from his left hand pointing towards the right before he swings. He mis-timed the ball so he still hits on the WRONG foot, but you can see his weight shift is happening and if he had timed the ball right I think he might have hit off the left foot...

    But now you can see what your problem is.. You're doing something similar to him.. You're hitting the ball with the left foot in the air and the right foot has the weight.. This is the problemw ith many players when they get a deep high ball because you're in the motion of backing up and the ball catches up too fast
     
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  30. DoubleHanded&LovinIt

    DoubleHanded&LovinIt Professional

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    You hit your forehands from a stance that is too open. Your right foot is actually in front of your left foot. Because of this, there is no transfer of weight into the shot. This is probably why you hit the forehand with only your arm. This must tax your arm. I would work on hitting forehands with the left foot in front of the right. You don't necessarily have to hit from a closed stance, but your stance right now is too open. Overall, your arm action seems good, but you need to use your body. You need to transfer your weight into the shot with proper footwork and stances. Bend for God's sake! You are way too upright and with that too open stance you have bad balance. So start with the proper ready position (model Agassi), then unit turn (model Agassi)--you want to turn the body not just the racquet, use a stance that's not so open, maybe even work with a closed stance, and use your whole body to hit the ball. As I said, the arm action is great, don't worry about that.
     
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  31. donnyz89

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    i agree with twist serve. the oldman's forehand is a lot like yours except he brings his racquet straight back. but again, these are just simple rallies that little mistakes like that wont hurt much but if u are going for a winner or hitting against a highpaced ball in a real match situation, u dont want to be leaning to your right foot offbalance too much.for warmups its alright i guess but try avoid doing it.

    study andy roddick's forehand, and on one of the Tennis magazines, they showed Carlos Moya's forehand step by step, great to watch. I learn my forehands from these guys.

    and maybe try to get some clips of you really HITTING the forehand hard for a winner. can u do that? or is that how u play in the match?
     
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  32. POGO

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    Thanks for you input. I will take more clips and will post them. So is my Forehand swing compact?
     
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  33. gmlasam

    gmlasam Hall of Fame

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    After looking at all your clips, your weakest is certainly your serve. You have no shoulder rotation and no weight transfer forward to your serve. If you are trying to serve a flat first serve, you need to toss the ball a little further front of the court. It looks like you are serving weak second serves from the the serve clip.

    Work on one part of the service motion first. Right now forget about the knee bend and concentrate on good trunk and shoulder rotation. Also, you have waiter's wrists, you are not bending the elbow enough the help generate more racquet speed. Instead you seem to be winding up more on the wrists to help generate racquet speed. Concentrate first on fixing the upper body to generate racquet speed. When you have that down, then start to use your legs, kneee bend and push off the ground, rather than jumping.

    The serve is a very complex movement and takes time and effort to really get it down. Take your time to learn it properly.


    Now, your forehand looks good. YOu have the idea, but again you have no shoulder rotation. You are using too much arm which will be a weak hit and not very consistant. You need to have hip and shoulder rotation the get power into the shot. Like what was mentioned, you should have your left shoulder pointing at the ball before contact and after contact your right shoulder should be pointing at the net. You need to bend your knees also the help push off from the right foot so your weight will be transfered forward. Always think of moving your weight forward on attacking shots.

    IMHO, your forehand is much better than the "old man's forehand in that clip". You have a much smoother swinging motion and not compact as the old man. Your backswing is very good, loop and large. The straight take back is just preferene, it is your style of swinging. Your forehand backswing style is long loopy backswing, not straight back. It is similar concept and style to the serve motion, like a claissical serve motion like Sampras where the racquet comes down and up to a trophy pose and a abbriviated serve motion like Roddick where the racquet does not come down and up to a trophy pose, but rather goes directly up to a trophy pose. It dosent' matter how the racquet gets to the trophy pose just as long it is at a ready posistion, like in the trophy serve pose.

    So basically, your forehand looks pretty good, but needs just a little work.


    Your backhand is the better of all. You show forward momentum in your backhand, but sometimes you do not bend your knees. I notice you hit on the rise more on your backhand. This is very good, helps generate pace and cut off time to your opponent.

    Your footwork looks basically good. You are moving on your toes, and do the split steps before each shot. This is good.

    I would like to see you volley.

    Keep practicing you will get there. I've been playing for over 25 years and I'm still learning ;)
     
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  34. gmlasam

    gmlasam Hall of Fame

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    POGO,

    Look at TennisD's form in this thread, http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=35296&page=27&pp=15

    Notice is forehand, and service form. Though he is a one hand backhander, notice also his shoulder turn to the ball, this also holds true for two handed backhanders.

    But look closely on his serve and forehand. Notice his hip press or stretch prior to ball contact on his service motion? With this posistion, you are winding up, stretching the hip and help explode into your shot. Also notice his trunk and shoulder rotation, his back is practically facing the net, this trunk and shoulder rotation along with the hip press gives you power into the shot. Notice his knee bend also. Later that is what you need to do when you get the upper body in sync with the racquet speed motion with arms. The amount of knee bend depends on the individual's flexibility, so you may not go down as deep has TennisD or you may go further. It doesn't matter, just as long as you have adequet knee bend to push off the ground for added power.

    Also, look at TennisD's Forehand motion. Notice his shoulder orientation before contact and after contact. That is how your shoulders should be, and look how much forward momentum he puts into his forehand shot. Use these as your model.
     
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  35. POGO

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    Thanks gmlasam for your thorough analysis and comments. Yes, I have looked at TennisD's form. I will certainly model after that.
     
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  36. POGO

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    Ok. Here is a current video I took today. I made some changes on my forehand. Is it getting better now?

    CLICK HERE
     
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  37. FREDDY

    FREDDY Semi-Pro

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    Hey Pogo Do You Know Armen????????
     
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  38. Saito

    Saito Professional

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    Personally, I think your forehand has gotten a little better from previous. But you still twirl your racqeut out of bad habit and I think it's causing enough for you not to be fully prepared to hit the ball properly. Also, when I hit a forehand, I tend to move forward into the shot. Although, I can't really tell if you are doing so, you have improved by not falling back away from the hit(I don't know if I said that right). You just don't seem like you are getting a solid shot out of what you are doing. Your follow through is ok.

    Maybe think like you do on your backhand. If you notice, you step way into the shot and tend to hit in front of you during your backhand, which are somethings you could do on the forehand. Or maybe I just can't tell. But that's what it looks like. Anyhow, keep practicing and GOOD LUCK!!! :D :D
     
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  39. supersmash

    supersmash Semi-Pro

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    I don't mean to critize your game, but I do not think you are a "4.5 Aggressive Baseliner" .
     
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  40. POGO

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    Hmmmm.......name is familiar. How you know Armen?
     
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  41. donnyz89

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    yes, its a lot different from the first vid u posted. i would say u are getting better. but more hip and body rotation could be added. u are no leaning backwards or sideways too much anymore which is good.

    good luck. and can u try closed stance or neutral stance on those shots where u have time?
     
    #41
  42. Power Game

    Power Game Professional

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    ok here are some things that you can research what is the right way:
    1. watch where you are contacting the ball
    2. watch your shoulders before and after
    3. watch your stance before and after
    4. watch your weight transfer
     
    #42
  43. ssjkyle31

    ssjkyle31 Semi-Pro

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    On some of your forehand strokes, your weight was on your back foot. Alot of the potential power was lost. From the angle of the balls, most of your forehand shot sailed out, I could be wrong. It looks like you are swinging at the ball a little to high. Maybe if you step in or taking it lower.
    Your backhand, IMHO, is your best stroke.

    Sometimes you appeared to be hesistent in driving with your weight to get more power. But once you commit, you had some great backhand shot. It looked very consistent on that backhand stroke especially when you did not twirl your racket. You have a nice follow through on your backhand

    You play like my brother. He has a bad habit of twirling his racket in between strokes. He usuually gets caught unprepared for the next stroke. Now he only twirls the racket one time in between strokes. :)
     
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