New coach, new tennis

Discussion in 'Junior League & Tournament Talk' started by 10istalent, Jan 4, 2013.

  1. klu375

    klu375 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Messages:
    503
    Actually OP should probably take a closer look at Dementieva who was mostly known for her ground strokes, return game and mental toughness. In this match she also did slices, drop shots, lobs and went to the net. You need to be prepared to do all this when playing someone like Henin. Some slices you can only pickup with a slice and you may end up inside the court in no time.
     
  2. ga tennis

    ga tennis Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2010
    Messages:
    1,710
    I miss J.Henin. She was my favorite player of all time. Best forehand in the history of womens tennis!!!!!
     
  3. Chemist

    Chemist Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2012
    Messages:
    344
    Location:
    Near a tennis court
    Me too! Very few, men or women, could do a better job finishing a point at the net. Her mental toughness is also second to none.
     
  4. TCF

    TCF Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,908
    ==========================
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2013
  5. ga tennis

    ga tennis Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2010
    Messages:
    1,710
    The leverage based forehand is a thing of beauty!!! J.Henin is 5 foot nothing but due to her forehand technique she absolutely destroyed the ball. I saw her live play a couple of times and the shape on the ball was insane. Just goes to show that size doesnt really mean that much if a player learns how to play from the ground up using LEVERAGE based groundstrokes.
     
  6. TCF

    TCF Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,908
    ==========================
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2013
  7. ga tennis

    ga tennis Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2010
    Messages:
    1,710
    NO!!!! We have mainly a bunch of girls that have played since 5 or 6 but only a handful of athletes. Thats why we keep pushing because i know my daughter is one of the best 5 athletes in the south but she losses to alot of these girls because my daughter plays big girl tennis and doesnt really have the fight yet. I would say 95% of the girls that win just fight hard and keep the ball in play. Only a handful are actually doing it right. To play a professional type game at 11 is very difficult and it takes a little longer to develop. Thats why im not worried because i know that when the game comes together its gonna be a beautiful thing. You gotta see the big picture you cant get caught up in the now and play the social comparison game. I see her play now and i know already what its gonna look like at 17 or 18 WOW!!!
     
  8. TCF

    TCF Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,908
    ==========================
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2013
  9. ga tennis

    ga tennis Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2010
    Messages:
    1,710
    check out www.strivetennisacademy.com It will make you wanna move. I just wish we were there full time. My daughter is in the academy but not on a daily basis.
     
  10. Tcbtennis

    Tcbtennis Professional

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2011
    Messages:
    1,316
    Hi. I know that you were addressing ga but I had to chime in. I live in South FL and even in this hot bed of tennis the true true girl tennis athlete is seldom seen. It's not common to see the true true boy tennis athlete either but for girls it is particularly noticeable. There are plenty of girls, who after years of hitting balls strike the ball well and have good anticipation and have "mastered" the game of tennis but none of them would be considered elite athletes. The very few that i have seen who are good athletes tend to be on the short side. They are super quick, very fast feet and stand out. You are visually drawn to them even when they are not on a court that you are watching.
     
  11. TCF

    TCF Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,908
    ==========================
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2013
  12. ga tennis

    ga tennis Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2010
    Messages:
    1,710
    The thing is is these girls win now. Thats why when they hit there mid teens the real athletes start to shine. I cant tell you how many times i have seen great athletes start tennis at 12 and end up being top notch d1 players and end up being soooo much better than the average athletic kids who started at 5.
     
  13. klu375

    klu375 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Messages:
    503
    Good that reformed TCF now appreciates how AD wins matches. It seems clean ball striking from static position isn't everything!
     
  14. ga tennis

    ga tennis Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2010
    Messages:
    1,710
    He just feels like the rest of us. Reults at 11 or 12 or 13 mean NOTHING!!! At that age some fight harder than others some putting winning first some put development first. Do you want trophys at 12 or a chance to make a living at 18????
     
  15. jigglypuff

    jigglypuff Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2010
    Messages:
    317
    Trophies.. since the chance to make a living at 18 is slim to none.
     
  16. ga tennis

    ga tennis Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2010
    Messages:
    1,710
    Not me... we want grand slams!!!! :)
     
  17. Number1Coach

    Number1Coach Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2010
    Messages:
    1,450
    the simple problem is we have girls playing soccer and there coaches have them "daily" do footwork drills all different kinds , then we have tennis girls who for the most part stand in the middle of the court and hit the ball right to each other ,,, How many clinics/academy have you been to that spend a serious hour a day on footwork "everyday"? will solve the problem , It's not and athletic thing its lazy athletics plain and simple !
     
  18. klu375

    klu375 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Messages:
    503
    Daily footwork drills of different kinds assumes a decent soccer club. Any decent soccer club has tryouts. Anyone who is not athletic and cannot run will be cut. At best you will be warming up the bench in a D-team and paying for others. Nobody will try to develop your non-existing basic skills at the expense of other players' success.
    All serious tennis programs/coaches spend a lot of time on footwork. They just do not have to cut anyone as it is an individual sport.
     
  19. Tcbtennis

    Tcbtennis Professional

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2011
    Messages:
    1,316
    One of the athletic tennis girls that I referred to in my previous post was actually a standout soccer player. I saw her first on the soccer field and her athleticism set her apart from the other girls. Now she uses those same skills on the tennis court.

    I would also put my son in the category of being an athlete on the tennis court.
    When you see him competing on the tennis court, the way he moves sets him apart from most of the other boys. My daughter, on the other hand, is athletic but not an athlete on the tennis court. She's tall, strong and fast but hasn't been able to (or doesn't know how to) make those advantages work for her on the court. Because of her size and power her coach trained her to be a ball basher therefore there was no thinking other than bash the ball. And in her mind it became if she's not playing well or is losing, it means to hit the ball harder. Variety, there was none. The coach would work on her forehand to the exclusion of her backhand. As a result her forehand was orders of magnitude better than her backhand and any player who was halfway good enough to keep the ball to her backhand would reap the rewards as soon as it broke down in a match. If you brought her to the net deliberately (i.e. dropshots) she would come storming in looking very uncomfortable. Since I am not a tennis player I didn't question his coaching methods until my son made it clear that he no longer trusted what the coach told him. He thought that the coach was limited in his abilities and was not aware of how modern tennis was played. So about 2 months ago we switched coaches and what a difference! My daughter is being taught to hit with spin. She's learning how to hit slices, drop shots and being encouraged to hit angles to try to open up the court. Most importantly she is learning how to approach the net calmly and efficiently to hit volleys. How she performs at the net now is night and day. It makes me wonder if we had left earlier or started at a different place would she be more of an athlete on the court than she is. She's in high school now so we've already lost a lot of time. I think it may be too late for her to make an impact in order to obtain a tennis scholarship to the school of her choice.
     
  20. ga tennis

    ga tennis Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2010
    Messages:
    1,710
    Its not too late. You will be surprised how good they can get in just a short time with hard work. I am a perfect example.
     
  21. TCF

    TCF Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,908
    ==========================
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2013
  22. ga tennis

    ga tennis Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2010
    Messages:
    1,710
    A friend of mine saw Hurricaine Black play in AZ. Said it was the ugliest thing she ever saw. Said all she saw was a girl slicing off both wings and doing anything she could do to win. So basically im saying that winning by any means necessary in the 12s is how you win. Those that arent concerned with results and are developing and doing it right are the ones that have a chance.
     
  23. TCF

    TCF Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,908
    ==========================
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2013
  24. Chemist

    Chemist Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2012
    Messages:
    344
    Location:
    Near a tennis court
    #1 Coach - I am wondering if you make DB work on the endurance. Does he run track on a regular basis? If yes, how often, running sprints or distance? One coach made my son and other kids run about 12 400M in 30 mins, spring to fall. But they just do strength in the winter. I started to make my son run treadmill a few weeks ago twice a week (30 mins and about 4.5 miles). That seems to be very helpful to him - he won 4 3-setters in two days a month ago.
     
  25. ga tennis

    ga tennis Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2010
    Messages:
    1,710
    Its a reason she does it. Winning is ALL that matters. By the way I LOVE HER DAD!! He is a great guy!!!! And she is a great kid.
     
  26. Chemist

    Chemist Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2012
    Messages:
    344
    Location:
    Near a tennis court
    Saw a top 30 (TRN) senior girl in Phoenix play. She would throw high moon ball with little spin like 1 out of 5 shots.

    I agreed many girls are not athletic - they look so good hitting crosscourt to each other; but miss shot after shot for drills that require running corner to corner. The girls with great athletic ability, tough mental and good skills would end up at the top of the ranking lists for juniors and seniors. Another observation - girls seem to stop improving after reaching 16-17 and may even start to slow down. Claire Liu (12?) recently beat a D1 woman from a top program in Jr USTA vs NCAA shootout in Portland. Boys can continue to improve and get stronger thru college. Is it biological or losing focus?
     
  27. TCF

    TCF Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,908
    ==========================
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2013
  28. Freak4tennis

    Freak4tennis Guest

    Hey TCF; I saw this a while back but really didn't pay attention to it. Is someone really kidding.

    "Thought it was the final straw ? You Back ? if so just sit back and listen to me and your girl has a chance at top 20 in the nation in the 14 's maybe 16's if you listen . Mine is tried and true , BtW we will be in Spain in Jan working with the Rafa kid just got the invite , he is a wounded bull and is needing hits guess who they called ?"
     
  29. tball2day

    tball2day Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2011
    Messages:
    603
    Danger Will Robinson........don't bite!
     
  30. jigglypuff

    jigglypuff Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2010
    Messages:
    317
    +1 ... also very disrespectful to the line judges.
     
  31. TCF

    TCF Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,908
    ==========================
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2013
  32. hhollines

    hhollines New User

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2012
    Messages:
    60
    Great post and I've enjoyed reading all the comments. From my perspective, it's not a simple issue and "big girl tennis" has more than one definition. What is determined as "actually doing it right" isn't clear cut (again, many different answers and perspectives). An individual's game varies based on so many different factors (from Erani to Serena to Wadwanska, etc.). My 2 cents . . . it's about footwork and good technique, then taking individual physical, mental, and psychological factors (and limitations) of the individual into consideration while developing their unique game based on their unique overall make-up.

    I don't know what "do it right" means . . . I've seen, in every sport, individuals so called "do it wrong" only to become great players, then what was previously "wrong" is now "right " :)

    My daughter played in the 12s in Tucson and we watched Hurricane beat Josie. I think Josie's game is much better set for when she is older but I won't rule out Hurricane (who knows what she could add or change down the road, but we'll see). This is a complicated issue . . .
     
  33. TCF

    TCF Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,908
    ==========================
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2013
  34. hhollines

    hhollines New User

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2012
    Messages:
    60
    TCF, I don't know you and I mean no disrespect to you or GA. However, I've been around also and I understand the game (just new to this group). I don't disagree with what you said but I added my perspective. It is true that many 12s winning the wrong way don't change but some do and some develop late . . . our focus on solid technique and good footwork.
     
  35. coaching32yrs

    coaching32yrs Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2010
    Messages:
    449
    Coach: Please provide a little background on Madison Brengle. Did she go to USTA HP? For how long? If not, where did she train. I watched her match at Aussie Open qualies last night and would be interested to know about her training.
     
  36. TCF

    TCF Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,908
    ==========================
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2013
  37. TCF

    TCF Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,908
    If I remember, she was coached mostly by her mom. But I think she also worked later on with Paul Roetert who is a USTA man.
     
  38. hhollines

    hhollines New User

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2012
    Messages:
    60
    Agreed!!!! you are likely right on at 5% (or lower).
     
  39. Chemist

    Chemist Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2012
    Messages:
    344
    Location:
    Near a tennis court
    So its biological. I recalled that Christina McHale wrote for Tennis that she spent more time on fitness training than hitting tennis balls.
     
  40. klu375

    klu375 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Messages:
    503
    Just re-watched the OB2012 clip posted by zootennis and others. I guess you have a very high standard because I see a very good little athlete that fights and runs for every ball. Don't you want more girls like her playing tennis? I am not talking here about technique, movement efficiency or tactics.
     
  41. Chemist

    Chemist Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2012
    Messages:
    344
    Location:
    Near a tennis court
    We need to give pushers some credit. They are usually better in mental toughness and are great defenders. If they have a good coach, they can improve their games by adding attacks or transition their game to hard grinding. The kids who have been trained "the right way" should learn how to deal with these type of players. The fact that a top 30 senior has beaten many good girls using high moon balls shows that they still don't know to deal with pushers.
     
  42. Chemist

    Chemist Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2012
    Messages:
    344
    Location:
    Near a tennis court
    Saw Madison played World Team Tennis, after she was back from AO several years ago. She had solid back hand, so so forehand and volley, and a very very weak 2nd serve. Yes, she was trained by her mom growing up. She benefited a lot by hitting with a few top high school boys. Had a feeling that she was not trained "the right way". Just looked at the stats of her match - she failed to win a single point on her 2nd serves (0/15), even though the average speed of her 2nd serves was 73 miles/hr, faster than she served at the WTT that looked like in 50s. Still remembered her mom was quoted in a local paper that her daughter lost her 1st RD of AO because her knee was injured. But she continued to play and won a couple of matches in junior AO. The mom was big in junior team tennis and she even tried to add her daughter on her team after she turned pro:shock:.
     
  43. crosbydog

    crosbydog Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    134

    Makes me want to move - unfortunately my daughter is a year too old at 11. Are they pretty adamant about being 10 or younger?
     
  44. ga tennis

    ga tennis Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2010
    Messages:
    1,710
    I dont think so. Give it a try.
     
  45. TCF

    TCF Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,908
    ==========================
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2013
  46. klu375

    klu375 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Messages:
    503
    Then you need another Lauren Davis. Watched her in Tucson when she was 13 and watched her Wednesday night on the feed from Hobart against Stephens. Her court coverage is insane. By the way she won everything G12-18, stayed in regular school, even played HS tennis freshman year and was not trained by USTA. Now she sneaked into top 100 at 19. She is winning on athleticism, attitude and world class backhand. Should I mention that she is 5'2"? I am sure she did not practice 6 hrs a day at 11. Not sure but maybe she still played soccer at 11.
     
  47. Soianka

    Soianka Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2009
    Messages:
    1,905
    She is a lot of fun to watch.
     
  48. TCF

    TCF Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,908
    ==========================
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2013
  49. 10ismom

    10ismom Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2011
    Messages:
    450
    Congrats! To Sloan Stephens for her solid performance in AO QF

    Congrats to a 19 year old Sloan Stephens who just beat Serena in 3 sets QF at the Australian Open. I guess they both learned from the last meeting and there was no drama between the two this time. Serena had a brief back spasm twisting at the net. It affected her serves a few games in the second set.

    The US teenagers are quite promising on the women side. Seventeen year old Madison Keys also reached 3rd round but she lost to Angelique Kerber. She showed quite promising form... big serves and ground strokes. Her movement and mental is not at Sloan's level yet.
    Sloan will break into top 20's and Keys in the top 100's.
     
  50. Soianka

    Soianka Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2009
    Messages:
    1,905
    I can tell you don't like Serena much. Her injury and its affect on her game was a lot more serious than you describe.

    Congrats to Sloane Stephens but all of the "drama" in the last match was caused by her.
     

Share This Page