New Machine Review - - Lf Quantum

Discussion in 'Stringing Techniques / Stringing Machines' started by mongo, Aug 13, 2008.

  1. mongo

    mongo New User

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    I posted this on another thread but it has since been buried and hard to find. I'm starting this thread for people out there who are looking for a machine which has just burst on the scene. Pictures can be found @ http://mongo.myphotoalbum.com/slides...aign=slideshow
    I'm having fun w/ it and suggest that if you're interested to investigate it further. Stringing machines are like shoes, you have to make sure they fit.
    My experiences w/ machines are limited to 2 . . . both table tops. One experience not so good the other good so far. I'm not qualified to review or evaluate a machine so I asked a friend of mine who is a professional stringer to come over to my home and give my new new machine a look. His approach to everything is quite scientific and methodical. He took copious notes promising me a “full report”. He stayed all day and after testing, stringing and talking, he said he would email me his opinions and observations. What follows is that email. I offer it for what it’s worth, which I believe is quite valuable. Although he doesn’t brag about his past experiences, here is a bit of his background:
    PS has been stringing professionally since the mid 70’s, trained by the distributors of Technifiber, to work on their stringing team at the Open and other tour events. He did this for a number of years until he tied of it and opened a freestanding pro specialty shop, which he still runs today. He has told me that he strings personally over 2500 rackets a year. I know he has worked on various projects for numerous companies. He often refers to himself as a ”tech head”. I agree. There isn’t much about strings and equipment he doesn’t know.
    AT FIRST GLANCE: For a tabletop machine, it is well constructed and utilizes popular mounting and clamp technologies. The bright red paint job is well done and the tool tray is well placed and large enough for what you need when you need it. The tension head incorporates a standard parallel jaw system found on just about every machine I’ve ever used. The action is smooth and firm without crushing the string. The tensioning unit, for the lack of a better description, in which the jaw resides, is unique. The lead is a diablo type devise that I have never seen before, although its function is the same. Its shape has been modified into a cam shape rather than a cylinder guiding the string into the jaws perfectly. The diablo and jaws are securely attached to a rather odd shaped piece, also cam shaped. I believe that this “brains” of the tensioning system.

    EVALUATION: Mounting a racquet is simple. The articulated arms move smoothly and hold the racquet securely, as I would expect. The throat and head mounts are well padded and should cause no damage to the inside of the hoop. The turntable has a solid feel and rotated effortlessly as I am accustomed to. The double action clamps are fine quality of appropriate weight and operate with a “positive” feel when engaged both at the head and the base. Upon examination of the clamps heads, I found them to be coated with “diamond” dust that will reduce slippage when adjusted to the correct closing distance. I placed a piece of VS Team in the clamp to see if it would mare or scare the string. It did not to either. I also tried this with the Diablo and tension jaws with the same result. I then mounted my calibrators. I use two different kinds; my tried and true Ektelon barrel spring loaded and an electronic model I fashioned from a fish scale. Each has served me well and although a bit redundant, I never leave anything to chance. Mounting the calibrators proved to be a bit interesting since there is not table brake. More about this later. I did two separate sets of weight tests, one in pounds and one in kilos. Setting at 50, 60 and 65 pounds then 25, 29, and 31 kilos. I released the arm and positioned it parallel to the floor using a small carpenters bubble level. As I expected this took a bit of doing to get the level perfect on all six tests. The results were as expected and also a bit surprising. The tensions were less than .2 ounces + or - and under 1 gram of being dead on. I repeated this 3 times at each weight to see if the measurements varied. They did not. I did this because I was a bit astounded with the accuracy, since my machine is not that accurate. I then proceeded to vary the arm angle from 40 to 10 degrees above and below parallel using a protractor. The results were the same; a degree of accuracy I cannot achieve on my machine.
    Now I wanted to see how that translated into string bed stiffness on a finished racquet.
    I mounted my Wilson Prostaff 6.1 and started stringing using my preferred Wilson NXT Tour 17 at 62 pounds. Since I’m not used to a tabletop machine, I wasn’t sure what to expect, but after a few minutes of getting used to the way the machine works, I finished and took it to my RDC. The finished racquet ended up nearly identical to the results I get from my Prince 5000. It was within 5 units of my usual readings.

    CONCLUSION: Whatever this tensioning system is, it’s truly different. It’s easy to use and most importantly, it’s accurate at some extreme angles. Having seen the testing results from drop weight machines, I know that the tension is dependent upon the arm’s angle and can vary greatly from pull to pull if the stringer is not focused on the angle. As far as comparing the Quantum TT to other machines in the same category, I don’t know since I don’t and wouldn’t use them, including this one, in a pro shop environment. I was disappointed that it did not have a table brake and wondered how a non-professional stringer would make out trying to string a Prince 03 or a Wilson Rollers, if any are still around. I see that Laserfibre has included 2 “boomerangs” for the 03’s. and the Rollers can be done by holding the racquet grip while tensioning and clamping. I still would like to see a brake. There are also two “H” adaptors included for racquets with very thin/narrow bridges, such as the Pure Drive and K 6.1 Tour. Although the mounting system would hold these racquets securely, the “H” adaptors would distribute the force over a greater area reducing the stress on the hoop. Overall, although not a Pro Shop machine, the home stringer might be well advised to check this machine out.
     
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  2. mongo

    mongo New User

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    #2
  3. Nuke

    Nuke Hall of Fame

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    SethR/mongo, are you serious? You've posted your LF advertising to two other threads
    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=193397 and
    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=206705,
    and both of those threads have been very active, with replies as recent as a few days ago. Hardly "buried." The fact that you keep playing up the machine reinforces my belief that you are just shilling for LF and not an actual customer. And starting a new topic for the machine just looks like an attempt to leave all the detractors by the wayside.
     
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  4. Il Mostro

    Il Mostro Banned

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    "You can't be serious!"
     
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  5. william7gr

    william7gr Professional

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    both links dont work
     
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  6. Zhou

    Zhou Hall of Fame

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    Wow. People, just give up on this Laserfibre Quantum thing. This is just getting pathetic.
     
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  7. Steve F.

    Steve F. Semi-Pro

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    #7
  8. Zhou

    Zhou Hall of Fame

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    According to those photos the machine is a complete knock off of the Alpha Pioneer DC Plus with a fancy tensioning mechanism.
     
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  9. xtremerunnerars

    xtremerunnerars Hall of Fame

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    Is this one of those uber dropweights?
     
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  10. zidane339

    zidane339 Hall of Fame

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    Off topic, sorry!

    Xtremerunnerars, I read somwhere you live down in the Pittsburgh area. I'm going to heading down to CMU in a couple of days, want to hit if you get a chance?
     
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  11. Il Mostro

    Il Mostro Banned

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    No, it is a "goober dropweight" that may or may not exist in the real world. Only one sketchy sighting so far, even though the order/wait list is both long and long in the tooth.
     
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  12. smarion2

    smarion2 Rookie

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    haha oh man I was looking all over for this review it was just buried so far I couldn't find it!! Laserfibre is pretty lucky to have someone like you who's so concerned we buy their product....
     
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  13. Gmedlo

    Gmedlo Professional

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    Hmmm, it has the exact same body and mounting parts/arms as my revo. The only differences are the base and the dropweight. Even the tension head looks to be the exact same.
     
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  14. mongo

    mongo New User

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    Steve F.: Thanks!

    Gmedlo & Zhou: Just curious. Do either of you have both machines to make these comparisons? Or are these your opinions from photos?

    Nuke: Since when is a "shill" someone who HAS PURCHASED something and offers an OPINION? You own a YUGO and rave about it(lol), are you a shill for YUGO? If so, all these Alpha rah rahs are shills for Mark Gonzales and Alpha, and the same for Babolat, Technifibre, Prince, Gamma.
     
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  15. Nuke

    Nuke Hall of Fame

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    Mongo, other folks on this forum have tried to purchase the Quantum and been on a wait list for a year. They get the runaround from LF when they call up to ask about it. So having you, this lone person claiming to have received the machine and posting raves in multiple threads, well, it just looks suspicious. Maybe you are a lucky customer who just happened to hit the LF lottery, but surely you can see how this must look to everyone else.
     
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  16. mongo

    mongo New User

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    Nuke: I might understand your skepticism IF I didn't post the photos. BUT I did what I promised to do. Maybe I am a "lucky" winner in the LF lottery. But I think not. There are others out there who either care not to get involved w/ these message boards or just don't think its necessary to comment. I've been attacked by numerous individuals for what reason? I did what I said I would do and added what I thought would help others who are looking for or at machines, though, what can be, a confusing and time consuming process. That's it. Thanks for your observations. I now understand where YOU are coming from. I hope you can understand mine.
     
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  17. AmericanTemplar

    AmericanTemplar Professional

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    I don't think that suspicion is based on whether or not you have access to a machine: it's whether or not you acquired it as a customer.
     
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  18. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    Bingo! :wink:
     
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  19. Mansewerz

    Mansewerz Legend

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    mongo, can you please take another photo of the machine.

    preferably with a spoon next to it?
     
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  20. Il Mostro

    Il Mostro Banned

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    Newspaper with today's date -- "proof of life" in kidnapping circles.
     
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  21. SethR

    SethR New User

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    I’m really getting ticked. Why is it that whenever I do stop by the TW boards on a rare day off, I find a group of people constantly throwing personal insults at me for offering an opinion?

    I have no idea who “Mongo” is. Or who Deck is. To prove your craziness, you all been feeding each other so much garbage, you’ve convinced yourself that anybody who mentions Lasefiber is somehow connected as one. You all accused Mongo as me. Me as Deck. Deck as Mongo and the list goes on. Deck the LF hawker. Try explaining why if I am Deck and Mongo is Deck and Deck is an employee of LF, please explain why Deck posted he bought a Alpha Revo? Kinda blows your theory huh? How about calling Alpha and Mark to confirm for us. Maybe he can reveal who the real Deck is and bust this case wide open.

    What makes you clowns think only one person got a Quantum machine? Anybody ever stop to think there might be a lot more people who bought the new LF machine and don’t post because they don’t want to be abused by message board brown shirts? Or maybe that is the goal. You like to intimidate people off the TW boards you don’t agree with. Yeah, I’m sure TW approves of you ripping fellow customers.

    Here is my advice to anybody who asks a serious question about anything. If the answer you get includes “I heard”, “it looks like”, “somebody said”, “I read on the internet” or any other second, third and forth hand guessing, don’t pay too much attention. If you all can’t speak from first hand experience, your talking out of your butts.

    Seth Rosen
    GA
     
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  22. mongo

    mongo New User

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    Well written, Seth, or is it Mongo, or maybe Deck? Maybe Lee Harvey Oswald? If we're talkin' conspiracy, let's get all the players involved!
    A SPOON? You can't be serious! A newspaper?
    You guys are really hysterical. Is that the best you can do to be a believer? I have a better idea. Why don't you call LF and order
    one for yourself and you take a picture of it. I won't even ask for the picture w/ a spoon to prove you ordered one. That's the only way to prove anything.
     
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  23. Il Mostro

    Il Mostro Banned

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    The obvious solution to your problem is to not to take any more days off.
     
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  24. Il Mostro

    Il Mostro Banned

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    Looking at it from a different perspective, with all of the people here who have ordered machines, and have been waiting so long for them, don't you think that if even *one more* Quantum had been delivered it would be known here? Are you suggesting that there are many more Quantum's out there, but everyone is so elated they haven't had the time or energy to post here? Or, LF did a production run of 1 machine and your buddy Mongo gets it, even though he wasn't on the waiting list? Or, maybe, your buddy Tim has a ****load of Quatums, but he's just holding them back? Come on, get real. Still... no more days off for you.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2008
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  25. Mansewerz

    Mansewerz Legend

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    A spoon , newspaper, any thing that we choose that you can get your hands on (no not a racquet!)


    Why? because it proves that you really have one. So many people have been waiting. And I already have a stringing machine, so I won't order one for myself.

    Don't give me the bs that you can't because you obviously have time for this thread and taking those other pictures.
     
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  26. AmericanTemplar

    AmericanTemplar Professional

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    I'm sure that Tim has a Quantum prototype (or at least he has a prototype of the tensioning mechanism & access to a can of red paint). Why would we need a newspaper or a spoon to prove it?
     
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  27. barry

    barry Hall of Fame

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    LF would have a better chance if they sold just the tensioner and forgot the rest of the stringer. A lot of drop weight users would switch, if it were easier to use and could be retrofitted. Keep the price around $100 or less, and I think they would dominate the drop weight market. A smart drop-weight tensioner would be a big improvement over the current system.

    These days, Stringer manufacturers are all using the same parts, clamps, mounting system, etc... So why would LF want to compete in a volume business. Selling just the tenionser would lower overhead, reduce startup cost, and the product would be in production much sooner.
     
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  28. Deck

    Deck New User

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    That's an awesome idea, it makes good business sense.
     
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  29. fastdunn

    fastdunn Legend

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    Actually, the idea behind this tensioner of Swingway or LF is pretty simple. It's about having variable leverage radius (proportional to drop angle). I thought manufacturers don't make one due to copy right issue. Makes me wonder why other manufacturers don't do it now but LF does it.
     
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  30. Mansewerz

    Mansewerz Legend

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    I think the auto dropweight tensioner idea would hurt a lot of Wise tension head sales.
     
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  31. Zhou

    Zhou Hall of Fame

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    Why? The wise is meant to be an addition to already existent machines being a crank. Few choose to add it to a drop weight.
     
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  32. Mansewerz

    Mansewerz Legend

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    True, but if you could put a auto DW on a crank too, you get pretty much the same thing (CP with speed) at a lower price.
     
    #32
  33. Deck

    Deck New User

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    To put the auto LF design on an existing crank you would have to add a spacer of 6"+ to get the height of the tensioner even with the racquet. This would put the arm of the LF design way up high and I think would cause a center of gravity situation where it could tip over easily.
     
    #33
  34. fastdunn

    fastdunn Legend

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    I guess so. It might hurt the sales of other higher end stringing machines. Swingway and LF are for that niche.
     
    #34
  35. SethR

    SethR New User

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    Hopefully without somebody jumping ugly all over me. I can say this because I'm looking right at it now. And I had enjoyed a 200tt for the past 3+ years and a Klippermate for 5 or so years before that. I do know both. Any objective stringer would have to agree the new LF tensioner is nothing like the 200tt (ml100). I'm not trying to be a "shill" cause the facts are the facts. It's not even an opinion. No other way to see it, the new design is a lot easier than the other. You don't have to hold the arm up to get the string into the gripper. You don't have to find the gripper opening with the string. And you don't have to pre-pull any poundage by hand to prevent maxing out. I am not saying the other is bad. They are completely different. Plus it is a joke to compare it to any other drop tensioner. I'm not touching the tension accuracy cause noone will believe it. I'll let someone else take that beating.
     
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  36. bladepdb

    bladepdb Professional

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    Photoshop.
     
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  37. onehandbh

    onehandbh Hall of Fame

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  38. mongo

    mongo New User

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    onehandbh:

    GREAT IDEA! I for one welcome it! Then that would end this nonsense once and for all.
     
    #38
  39. onehandbh

    onehandbh Hall of Fame

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    btw, my intent isn't to vilify or harpoon any of the parties.
    I like companies that make unique and innovative products
    and want them to succeed.
    (okay, the automatic, multi-angle dropweight isn't exactly a
    scientific marvel and is actually pretty simplistic, but in the
    world of stringers it's innovative and interesting.)

    If it turns out that Laserfibre has been using shay
    business practices, then I'm hoping that they'll come clean
    and move forward with an honest business practice and
    possibly even make up for their past actions
    so that they can restore their reputation a bit and move
    forward. Afterall, word-of-mouth is important is important.

    If it turns out that there are a bunch of posters from
    another company trying to discredit LF, then that truth
    should be revealed if possible and those posters owe LF
    an apology.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2008
    #39
  40. smarion2

    smarion2 Rookie

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    I for one can say I had an awful experiance with them. Anyone here can go ahead and call tim and see what he has to say about my order. I was lied to repeatedly and posted what happend so this wouldn't hafta happen to anyone else. Congrats if you got a machine Mongo I dont know why you got urs and I didn't get mine. I dont know whats goin on over there but the way I was treated and lied to was awful.
     
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  41. volusiano

    volusiano Hall of Fame

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    I wonder the same thing myself. Unless LF came up with a completely different idea than this that wouldn't infringe on SW's patent. But then I would be very curious to understand what the new LF idea is and whether they've patented it or not.
     
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  42. SW Stringer

    SW Stringer Semi-Pro

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    Last time I checked the United States Patent and Trademark website for filings, neither SW nor LF had filed for patent protection on anything. LF also let it's trademark on the term L A S E R F I B R E expire. This was a couple months ago. Typically it takes about two years from filing to issuance of a patent if the filing meets muster. Once a product is available to the public it's too late to file for patent protection. The lack of an issued patent in the US (by SW) is the reason why LF can blatently and legally copy anything that SW has produced.
     
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  43. volusiano

    volusiano Hall of Fame

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    Hm, I wonder why other stringing machine manufacturers don't take advantage of this and come up with their own design based on the same principle to compete with this. It shouldn't be too hard to modify their drop weight design to incorporate this in.
     
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  44. SethR

    SethR New User

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    The new LF tensioner is not anything like the SW tensioner. I know, I have the new one and had the old one. It is completely different. Alot easier to use. Better access to the griper. It takes the slack out of the string. Lighter to work. There is no other way to describe it but totally different. But according to LF, they do have a patent pending.
     
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  45. Il Mostro

    Il Mostro Banned

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    Since the whole Quantum thing has been dragging on and on, if LF has indeed filed for a patent it will have been published for opposition by now (this occurs 6 months after the initial filing) and should be visible online at the US Patent and Trademark Ofiice web site. The filing, if it exists, would likely be under LF or Tim's name (if he is the owner of the company and/or the the idea). I am not motivated enough to do the search, but it is simple enough should anyone want to confirm this.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2008
    #45
  46. SethR

    SethR New User

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    You guys got my curiosity up. I just asked and here is their answer.

    Seth

    Hey Seth. It would be highly inappropriate for us to discuss matters of Stringway. I can tell you that there are currently 2 US provisional patents pending for the Smart Weight tensioning system. In a nutshell, this common and routine patent application process provides for full patent pending protection during the 12 month time frame allowed for the non-provisional patent application to be finalized. It also allows for the product to be made available for sale during the patent pending process of both the provisional and non-provisional application periods. We are 100% certain of the uniqueness of the design and have absolutely no concerns whatsoever of infringing on whatever other US patents may or may not have ever existed.

    While I’m not an expert, I believe only finalized, non-provisional patent applications appear in the USPTO website.
     
    #46
  47. hollywood9826

    hollywood9826 Semi-Pro

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    Thats reads like a very nice cut and paste job from an email his lawyer sent him on how to react to questions regarding the topic :)
     
    #47
  48. Il Mostro

    Il Mostro Banned

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    Utility patent or design patent? Huge difference. Since they use the word "design", I wonder. FYI, design patents are virtually useless for this type of application (in terms of intellectual property protection), other than being able to claim that it is a "patented" product. Unless they have been completely asleep at the wheel, it would have been published by now. And you can bet your ass that patent infringement/protection has to have been top of mind all along, given LF's relationship with SW and that company's patented products. If there was a line on LF in Las Vegas, you could call BS on every statement they make and make a mint.
     
    #48
  49. AmericanTemplar

    AmericanTemplar Professional

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    Good stuff Il Mostro! You're posts have been quality.
     
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