New serve videos (much better, lots of work to be done)

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by Eph, Apr 9, 2008.

  1. Eph

    Eph Professional

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    I tried my best to incorporate the tips given. I think my biggest problem now is 1) no backscratch and 2) little power.

    I also seem to let the hand fall behind me prematurely, I am not sure though if it is too early.

    What do you think?

    Personally, I noticed a HUGE difference. I don't have the speed (and I need to get that), but I could see the ball actually well over the net instead of an inch or two above and then hitting down going straight for the fence. It was actually incredible to see the first time. One thing: my wrist, if I don't hit it exactly, my wrist suffers (from pain). What am I doing wrong here; I know the pros can't be hurting after every serve. Every one of my serves had a nice slice to it; I could only hit one or two up the line, most were falling in that little corner box. I didn't really notice much of a difference between either side when serving; they both seemed natural.

    It does not look like I am shifting my weight... Agree/disagree? What do I do about that? Nor does it look like I am rotating my body. Suggestions?

    I also worked on bringing my feet closer together and I can see a HUGE difference when they are more than shoulder width apart when serving.

    As an aside, I saw my knee surgeon today and he sent me to get another brace, but he thinks I may not even need it. (He actually said "whatever you are doing, keep doing it") We're going to fill in a cavity of fluid or tissue buildup to make the tibia solid again in about 6 weeks in which I only have to stop tennis for two weeks.

    Like before, please don't be gentle and tell me what you think. I need all the suggestions I can get to improve my game. I am dedicated, and I am trying. My main complaint is the hurting wrist and the lack of speed. My contact point certainly seems *much* higher.

    From the left side: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfVUP0lB-d4

    From the right side: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5e4oPNJrolA

    Thanks in advance.
     
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  2. nickb

    nickb Banned

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    Hi,

    I know this has nothing to do with technique but if that is a K Factor Tour 90 you really should look into something with a bigger headsize that is more forgiving. Most advanced players have trouble using that racket.

    The K90 has a small headsize which can make things harder than they should be...even more so for a beginner.

    Just friendly advice..

    Good luck,

    Nick
     
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  3. hyogen

    hyogen Hall of Fame

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    wrist hurting? you're using too heavy of a racquet and the K90 is a very stiff racquet. like nickb said, looks like you need to be using a lighter and more flexible racquet. I would go with an oversize for you (110 or 107). You'll be able to develop better technique and get more speed and fix your wrist problem.
     
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  4. Eph

    Eph Professional

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    I have no desire to change racquets - for my own reason. Technique is what I need help on.

    And if you get too light a racquet, you run into other sorts of problems.
     
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  5. Doc Hollidae

    Doc Hollidae Hall of Fame

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    LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
     
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  6. nickb

    nickb Banned

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    You can use what you want..its up to you.

    "is the hurting wrist and the lack of speed."

    Im not saying get a light racket...a more flexible frame with a bigger headsize would be better.

    I'm a 5.0+ player...I have given up the K90 as it is too demanding.

    Nick
     
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  7. FEDEX1

    FEDEX1 Rookie

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    ya a person at you're level really shouldn't be playing with a racquet like that. i agree with past posters, an oversize racquet would be good for you. and something lighter...but on youre serve you more knee bend could help and jumping into the court not just staying flat on the ground...if you can get you're weight moving forward into the ball more that will produce more power...also, im not sure about this one but it doesnt look like youre using the continental grip. correct me if im wrong tho it just doesnt look continental to me
     
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  8. hyogen

    hyogen Hall of Fame

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    ? did i say something funny?
     
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  9. hyogen

    hyogen Hall of Fame

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    what reason? because Roger Federer uses it? because he's #1?

    You've chosen a racquet that's far too heavy for you...so why not switch to something more in the middle?
     
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  10. Eph

    Eph Professional

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    Yup, you got it.

    If anybody wants to offer advice about my technique, that would be great.

    Thanks
     
    #10
  11. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    Haha, good answer Eph! Still though their advice on racquets wasn't incorrect either. It seems you simply like your racquet.

    Onward to the land of technique.

    Your motion is slightly more fluid. So congrats, however, we arent out of the weeds yet. :)

    Here are your goals:

    1. Be comfortable with and move to the continental grip by June 1.

    2. Develop upper body movement that swings the racquet properly in a continuous motion (no hitches or slow downs) by June 1

    3. Study slo-motion professional upper body arm movement and racquet position and duplicate that beginning with a slow deliberate motion. On-going

    4. Build a tool to help with the process. Get a flexible rope and make it slightly longer then your racquet. Attach a ball to the string by poking holes through it and bringing the rope through it so that it is secure. Swing the rope imitating a serve motion, and have no slack in the rope. You will use the exact arm motion a pro uses. By April 12th.

    5. Serve policy: I will no longer use the Eastern grip and will duplicate to the best of my ability a professional players arm swing and racquet movement.

    6. Study Policy: I will continuously compare my serve to a pros serve to master the basic fundamentals of how a racquet swings around. If I have trouble, I will shadow practice the motion in a mirror or whatever is necessary.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWC1hcKBh4g&feature=related

    You need to especially watch how Federers arm sort of collapses allowing the racquet to drop vs. your waiters grip motion.

    Here is another reference for study:
    http://www.fuzzyyellowballs.com/index.php?col=260823
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2008
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  12. Eph

    Eph Professional

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    >>It seems you simply like your racquet. <<

    I do like the racquet but it has more to do with being taught to use the best equipment in any sport - even if it is over your level - to play the best possible. Just like when I learned how to play chess, I played against those with 2000+ ratings - you get much better, much quicker.

    Are you saying I am still using the eastern grip?

    By developing the upper body motion, will that allow for a more powerful, flat serve?

    Thanks.
     
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  13. nickb

    nickb Banned

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    You have it all wrong...its the player not the racket.

    Just because the K 90 is $200 does not mean its the best racket for you.

    Good tennis players can use anything...I know..I have been beaten 6-0 by players using 250g granny sticks (most have been)

    Using the K Tour 90 could slow down your progress not speed it up.

    Just an example for you...my coach (ex ATP player) uses a 270g Babolat....he played top 50 doubles....its not all about flashy expensive rackets.

    Nick
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2008
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  14. hyogen

    hyogen Hall of Fame

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    didn't mean to be too offensive there. and as some people will note, any advice given by me will be considered "blind leading the blind".

    check out my vids if you care to have a look. this isn't my best serving stick...I serve best with a more stiff and extended length racquet--for example the TT warrior OS. how do i know? huge increase in 2nd serve aces and first serve aces as well as sharp decrease in first serve faults.

    PT280 serving after a couple weeks:
    far view serve: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pU9zaZaA3w
    rear view serve: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWm9J4B_tr4
    left and right angle: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLz8XdQpssI

    I actually agree with your philosophy which you have been taught. No one had to teach me that...it is just my natural thinking. Probably due to succumbing to the media/advertisement/endorsements. But to me, I'd rather learn and get better by practicing a video game, for example, on the most difficult level, etc. Also, for tennis I want to use a racquet that the pros have actually used to become successful with...Not some racquet that has been painted and advertised to make people believe the pro's use it. This is why I'm pretty much choosing the head pt280 even though I can hit better with the Pure Storm Team. I know for a fact that pros still use the PT280 today and even up 'n coming juniors like Donald Young. There's gotta be some sort of quality in that racquet that an imitation or a newly made racquet with all the fancy technologies cannot reproduce.

    I AGREE with those who are emphasizing technique over equipment. But I know where you are coming from.

    here is my advice on the K90. If you research a little bit on these forums, you'll learn pretty quickly that Federer isn't even using this racquet. He's using an older racquet that is painted to look like a K90 (so Wilson can sell more racquets).

    Many players on this board who are more advanced than me have trouble using the K90... in all their experience and coaching and practicing--the K90 is simply too advanced and is not suitable for the vast majority of people who try to use it.

    I'm at work so I can't see your video, but you probably want BB's technique advice more than mine. My advice is to pick a racquet that someone in the top 10 uses. a Prince O3 Pro Tour (Davydenko) or LiquidMetal Instinct (Gasquet)..older AeroPro Drive without Cortex (Nadal). By choosing one of these more user friendly racquets, you're not gonna be shortchanging yourself because you're not using the racquet that the world #1 is using (or is advertised to be using). Just my 3 cents ;)

    just saw nickb's post. I 100% agree that using the K90 will only slow your progress and stunt the potential you can have.
     
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  15. tiC.taX

    tiC.taX New User

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    I agree with nickb...

    There is no "best" racquet; it is entirely dynamic and depends on how you play.
     
    #15
  16. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    First off, hats off to you! You have a great attitude. Forget about the frame talk, and concentrate on your technique.

    Good work on switching to a more neutral grip for the serve. However, it seems like you haven't moved over far enough for it to be a continental.


    Just follow BB's advice.
    Good luck.
     
    #16
  17. Vision84

    Vision84 Hall of Fame

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    You still appear to be using an eastern grip to me. Your racket is facing to much to the ground on the left side of you. If you put the racket across you with the ball over the strings when you line up to serve you should have it pointed a bit towards the ground on your right side when using the continental. A good indicator.

    The racket handle is divided into 8 sides. Each side is called a bevel. The top bevel that is in line with the frame of the stick is called bevel number 1. The bevel one to the right of this is called bevel number 2. This is where you want to place your knuckles along. At the moment it appears your knuckles are along bevel number 3 which is one more to the right and is an eastern grip. If you are struggling to maintain this then simply wrap your third finger over your thumb which should help prevent you from subconsciously slipping towards an eastern.

    If you try serving and pronating on our serve with a continental grip then the ball should be going further left than you aim with some slice on the ball. That is a good indicator you have the right grip
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2008
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  18. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    That is fine. I happen to like my racquet too and would not switch. :) However, the posters here also have a point. When I learned golf, I didnt buy blades, I instead bought something I could handle.

    If you think you can handle the racquet at your current level then that is okay.

    Well it certainly looked like you were, were you? As you move forward some questions are going to be reveresed back to you. This is so you can question yourself regarding being in the right grip, etc...Did you do research from yesterday or so to find out the Continental grip?

    Eventually. Currently, your arm slows down a lot and your palm faces the sky just before the racquet drops into the so-called "backscratch" position. Watch the vidoeon Federer and yours and notice how different the arm movement is and the pattern Federers motion makes compared to yours. Follow the hand pattern and you can duplicate that without a racquet.
     
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  19. Eph

    Eph Professional

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    That's wonderful. Please stick to the technique, but since you seem so keen on not, don't respond.
     
    #19
  20. junbumkim

    junbumkim Professional

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    Your tossing arm is stilling going behind your body.
    This should be the EASIEST fix. It's good that your bring your hand down, but it needs to stay on the FRONT side of the body.

    You still have your first yeepy knee bend before the toss. You need to get rid of it if you want more fluid motion. You bend your knees, get up, toss the ball and hit. This is NOT the way you do it. Watch the clip of Sampras serve.
    Your weight should be shifting from the back foot to the front foot. As you shift your weight, your tossing arm should go up along with the left side of your hip stretching. That is how you get the motion with knee bend.

    Your toss seems a little higher, and not too much in front. That seems good.

    Also, you seem to try to get your legs involved in the serve, but you are doing it in a wrong way. You shouldn't need to jump like that to hit a serve. Right now, try to serve with your left leg staying on the ground. Your right leg will naturally come around after the contact.

    Also, why is your followthrough end on your right side not on your left side?
    It's almost as if you are forcing it. It should finish on your left life. I am not sure if it has to do with your toss position or what...

    Your stance seems a little more of shoulder width than the last time...It still seems a tad bit wide, but if you are comfortable, it's ok..

    what grip are you using now? You don't seem to be using the sw grip as you were last time. Continental? Eastern Forehand?
     
    #20
  21. Essential Tennis

    Essential Tennis Rookie

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    Eph,

    Obviously you're taking this seriously, you went out the next day and switched your grip which is great, my hat is off to you. My next two suggestions for technique to you are this:

    1. As you make your swing at the ball, your body is still moving downwards. If you watch slow motion video of any pro's serve, you will see a load and drop of the body and legs leading up to the swing, and then the entire body is being uncoiled and stretched upwards towards the ball. After contact, everything comes back down again. At contact and immediately after, your body is scrunched up and bent because its already coming downwards before you even make contact. You need to train your body to coil and tilt back, and then back upwards towards contact, rather than tossing, and hitting while your body slouches down.

    2. Great job switching the grip. Now you need to relax your arm, shoulder, forearm and hand. This is why in my first post to you I suggested going half speed for a good amount of time until you get the feel for the new grip. Your range of motion is suffering because you're trying so hard to swing at the ball. Slow down and keep your arm and shoulder completely relaxed while you work on moving upwards towards the ball. Hopefully as you get more comfortable your racket will start dropping farther back behind you leading to longer range of motion and better usage of your body.

    Where are your serves going now that you've switched your grip?
     
    #21
  22. nickb

    nickb Banned

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    You will find out for yourself soon enough.

    Good luck swinging that log around....if you have all the time in the world to get better at tennis thats great.

    BTW there was no need to be rude...my comments where just my opinion..I was trying to help.

    Please post back when your a 6.0

    Cheers
     
    #22
  23. Nellie

    Nellie Hall of Fame

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    A couple of quick thoughts for you:

    1) you are opening your shoulders too early. By this, I see that you are tossing the ball with your shoulders closed (left shoulder pointed to the net) and then immeadiately turn you body so that your chest is pointed to the net as you are still bringing the racquet up and behind your head. As a result, you are getting no energy to the ball from this motion, because you then settle with that chest open to the net, and then swing with your arms. For example, if you stop the second video at about 7 second, you will see that you are still loading up for the contact but already turned to the ball. In contrast, the better servers wait to rotate the body until after the shoulders and arms start firing so that the torso rotation and arm extension are one motion to combine the forces.

    2) your racquet does not accelerate at contact, but instead is slowing down, as can be seen by the racquet finish near your shoulder height.

    3) You are dropping your head prior to contact and pulling down on the ball. Instead, hit the ball at your high point and then follow through by pulling forward and down to complete your forward and rotational weight transfer.

    4) I really like that you are trying to shift your weight from left to right and step through, but the timing seems slightly off and late because the weight shift appears after contact.

    So in summary, it appears that you are trying to make good changes, but your muscle memory is holding yuo back because the primary service motion looks similar to your video from a couple days ago. You are doing a nice shoulder rotation, but before the serve contact. You are doing a nice weight shift, but after the serve contact.

    Instead, think of your goal of putting every once of energy in your body into that raquet at the point of contact with the motion before building up to the contact and the motion after being a relaxation and natural outcome of that contact.

    Good luck.
     
    #23
  24. charaseac

    charaseac Rookie

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    Hahahah i like how hard headed you are.
    Well i believe you have more reason than just "liking the racket" which u can't tell us...

    If you stick to it so much just because you like it.. then you are one tough customer lol...

    Your reasoning from chess example is irrelevant. From that example you yourself admit that it's the player, not the equipment. In chess it doesnt matter whwether you are using gold plated chess set or a chess set made of labeled used alkaline batteries. ITs the opponent that matters. in tennis racket does matter, you need a racket that you can handle and you can use, and you need an opponent who can teach you. like what you stated, a beginner playing with beginner will only result in the blind leading the blind.

    Now, i'm a beginner too (been playing for a year only) and im using ksix one 95. I'm one of the lucky bunch because my roomates are solid players. theyve been playing since they were like 5 or so and they can teach me.

    OK just so that u wont say rude thing on me, i'll give you advice:

    For your serve, look for consistencies. This is the thing i learned a lot when i teach myself serving. First thing i did, i look at all the serve videos, trying my best to memorize all the techniques and use it. I went to the court early in the morning when no one is around with a bucket full of balls. trying to find my most comfortable serve and replicate it over and over again until i can do it consistently. I'm still working on that but im pretty sure that my serve is quite consistent. That is one thing that i can tell u from my experience

    For the racket thing. k61 90 is a great racket. And its good if you like it. but if you have extra money, think about investing on more forgiving racket just for now. Consider it for your second racket. probably for playing doubles when you need extra maneuverability. when your technique is solid, then you can always go back to your 90. I did that too, and now im doing fine with both my rackets, i use my k61 95 when i play singles and against opponent with big serve and power (I found that 95 can return heavy balls effortlessly) and i use my friends aero pro (have one lying around house so i just use it) when i need extra maneuverability against faster opponent.

    Im not a pro, im just sharing you what i already did. If you dont like it, please refrain from rude comments. Thanks
     
    #24
  25. Doc Hollidae

    Doc Hollidae Hall of Fame

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    You're the last person that should be giving racket advice.
     
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  26. hyogen

    hyogen Hall of Fame

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    wow, harsh statement
     
    #26
  27. Nellie

    Nellie Hall of Fame

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    Who cares what racquet the guy is using? If he he was hitting late/limp in wrist, missing the raquet, etc, you could suggest that he had too heavy of a racquet. His racquet choice is so unrelated to his technique problems (passive aggressive comment:)) that it is inane to bring it up.
     
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  28. Doc Hollidae

    Doc Hollidae Hall of Fame

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    You don't buy rackets because they are what pros play with. Just because they can doesn't mean you can. When choosing a racket, you should choose what feels best in your hand and what you have the most confidence in. Demoing unbiasedly with a wide range of specifications is the best way to find the racket that fits you best. Nadal plays with an APDC, but that might not fit a flat hitting, serve and volleyer.


    To the OP,
    You have the right attitude and sounds like you're dedicated to improving and not using your equipment as a crutch. However, do consider that the K90 could potentially stunt your improvement or put a ceiling on your potential. I'm not sure how many other rackets you've hit with or demoed, but in the future you might want to demo other rackets later on. You might find that while the K90 felt great and serves you well, there's a better match for your game after it's developed.

    Other than that, enjoy the game. Bungalo Bill, Nellie, and Essential Tennis already provided great advice so that's a great starting point.
     
    #28
  29. tennisfan_23

    tennisfan_23 Rookie

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    Eph,

    I agree with most of the people on this board regarding the racquet choice. HOWEVER, I do respect your reasons for using it. Everybody has their preferences and if yours is to use the k90, good on ya. Just know that it definitely WOULD be helpful to play with an oversize to start with, but whatever you use is of your own volition.

    In terms of your service motion, there are just a few kinks to work out before you start tackling more advanced details. Firstly, your toss is alright. If you aren't using your fingertips to hold the ball (I can't tell), you should do so because it really helps the release.

    The most important thing that you need improvement on at the beginning stages of the serve is where you drop your tossing hand. You seem to be dropping it on the left side of your body instead of down by your inner right thigh region. If you correct this, you'll find that your balance will be much better and your motion much more fluid.

    Speaking of motion fluidity, you seem to hesitate before you perform your toss. Let your hand fall in front of you, then raise both arms at once as you toss. Don't be afraid, just go for a more fluid motion and that'll also help your balance and power as you get to the later stages of the serve.j

    Ummm I have more to say but I think that tennis - like chess, or whatever else - requires a lot of work and it's step by step. Don't expect to perform a 4 move checkmate when you haven't even deployed your pawns, ya know? (Not a huge chess person so I don't know if I'm getting these terms right).


    Anyhow, keep up the good work, it's always, ALWAYS encouraging to see people playing tennis because it really is such a great sport.
     
    #29
  30. rockbox

    rockbox Rookie

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    I don't think you should dwell on his racquet. Many of us started playing with wood racquets which were much more difficult to play with than the racquet he is playing with. I remember a time when people used to tease people that played with OS POGs since it was considered a "cheater racquet" that rich women(they used to cost over $200 in the early 80's) played with.
     
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  31. watermantra

    watermantra Rookie

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    This will do more to help you build a fluid motion than anything you're doing now, in my opinion. I think that poor timing and a jerky motion are causing you to plateau. When you first make this device, it will seem impossible! Keep at it.

    It looks as if you might be using an slightly continental grip, though you are gripping the racquet like it's a thirty pound sledgehammer. Spread those fingers out and relax the grip and wrist a bit.

    Excellent tips.

    I would add that you should examine your knee bend. It is happening at the wrong time in the serve motion, which is, I believe, contributing to your jerkyness and odd timing. Your knee bend is happening before you toss. It should happen just after the toss, which will time the straightening of you legs with the upward motion of the racquet. This will add power to your serve virtually effortlessly.

    The last thing is that you seem to be hitting out instead of up. Keep that toss arm up for longer so that 1) it helps you to think "up" and 2) so that as you pull it down into your body, it will stop the rotation of your shoulder, causing the arm to "whip" through the ball.
     
    #31
  32. smoothtennis

    smoothtennis Hall of Fame

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    Eph - Good job and great attitude on going out and doing more work and video. Hey, I DO see a positive difference, regardless of how many more changes you plan to make, so KUDOS on the work.

    I watched over and over, and finally saw what was kinda bugging me in your motion. Good news - it's easy to fix.

    We already established previously that you were doing a curtsey, which is gone by the time you swing, ie - all loading in the legs has dissapated by the time you swing. So thats that. So here is what I am hoping you might try, and should smooth you out even more.

    Don't bend the knees right now at all. All that is doing *today* is complicating your toss, and adding in a 'hitch' to your service motion. When you do incorporate a poper knee bend later, you'll have to replace the curtsey anyways or it won't work. So go ahead, and just get rid of it now, you don't need it.

    Your toss should smooth out instantly if you try this. Can't hurt to try.

    When you do add in the knee bend later, you will find, that you toss, and bend down or load in one motion, or toss and THEN load the legs... and then everything will be coming up together to hit the ball.

    Today if you watch the vid again, you will see that you currently bend first, THEN toss as you are straightening the legs or 'coming up'. Right...you don't want that hitch getting ingrained, because you have to change it later regardless.

    Hope that helps some. I wonder what BB thinks of this advice - Bill?

    PS. Don't worry about the racket, I play with that stick. I've played with a LOT of sticks over the years. Don't take offense at all the racket talk, we just can't help it, we are tennis fanatics ok? LOL. One thing I think these guys are trying to say in tennis, is that no one racket is the BEST. If there was one like that, well, every pro would use the same one. The rackets are geared toward skill, comfort, and swing styles- so there is only one best one for YOU. And that can change as you develop better skills. It takes a while to find out what all that means, so don't worry - I know you aren't. Yes, a larger head will help many players develop faster, but don't be offended by these statements.

    Keep working hard - you made good progress.
     
    #32
  33. smoothtennis

    smoothtennis Hall of Fame

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    Watermantra said
    Yep - ok, so that's three people who see this. I just saw this after posting. That is exactly what I was seeing. I played with it myself here, and realize he has to eliminate that completely before doing a knee bend like the pro's.

    That really should smooth his motion out immediately. I look forward to another vid incorporating this - this one's easy.
     
    #33
  34. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    I think you provided excellent advice. I think the poster needs to work on his arm motion without the legs so much involved or the toss. He has already engrained many things that are hurting him (i.e. curtsey, improper toss timing, eastern grip, waiters motion, lack of upward movement, etc...)

    The serve is the most complicated stroke to teach. It has so many elements in one fluid motion that it many times overwhelms students. I am very careful in suggesting changes because there isn't any independent motion in the serve.

    A grip change for example will take probably at least a month to get used to. The arm motion will take some time as well. Learning to toss while your front hip outstreches and your knees bend is another aspect of learning.

    There are no shortcuts on this one, however, I read your comments and thought you did an excellent analysis and provided a very good explanation to support your findings.

    That is what this place is all about. Provide your insight based on good analysis and explain it in a way that anyone can understand. I never have issues when people take the time to do it right.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2008
    #34
  35. quicken

    quicken Professional

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    Throw the ball into the court more, and stop sucking your tummy in, thats how you are getting robbed of your power.

    If you throw that yellow ball inside the court more, you are going to get more power.
     
    #35
  36. hyogen

    hyogen Hall of Fame

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    uhmm...if you look at my magic wand thread, you'll see that's exactly what i did. I demo'd a wide array of different types of racquets throughout the years...and most intensively in the past 6 months or so...trying to find a balance in great groundstroke/serve/return of serve/volleying racquets... yes, i'm talking about choosing one that gave me the best overall confidence in all those areas...and not some magical racquet that does it all for me. I don't think I've bought a racquet just because a pro was using it--except for the Radical line. I tried to like it b/c I loved Agassi--this was way back when I didn't even know about the paintjob scam.. Why else would you have chosen the limited edition Agassi's Radicals? You won't admit that Agassi having used it didn't influence your decision one tiny bit? oversize, no less.

    I think the truth of the matter is that some pros may never have gotten quite to the level they are at if they had only used the racquets of today--with all the fancy schmancy technology. They'd probably lack the feel needed to reach such a high level...etc.

    anyways, back on topic.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2008
    #36
  37. Double Fault

    Double Fault Semi-Pro

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    I didn't read the thread so I have no idea what others have said. However, off the top of my head, you're making the same two mistakes I used to make.

    1) Bending your knees before the toss and not after the toss. The knees are supposed to give you that explosion when coming from down under to strike the ball. No use in bending them if they are straightened out by the time the ball leaves your hand.

    2) You're falling with the wrong foot inside the court. You should always fall with your left foot inside if you're a righty. Don't do that footswitching thing you do in the second serve of your first video. That can lead to injury.

    Good luck improving! I know I still am!
     
    #37
  38. Tim W

    Tim W Rookie

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    A couple of things I noticed.
    1. Keep that front heel on the ground (Left foot).
    2. On your racquet takeback, from going beside you to behind your head, you sort of abbreviate it, so it is a lot saller.It just looks a bit strange, that's all.
    3. Are you ready to learn a jump serve? I was taught a serve where I just turn my right foot in, and not take it off the ground. You seem to fall off balance when you land, and I think that keeping your feet on the ground will benefit you for now.
    4. Don't lock your knees straight.

    Other than that, I think it is an alright serve, and is really progressing.
     
    #38
  39. Doc Hollidae

    Doc Hollidae Hall of Fame

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    I played with the Radicals because I felt they suited my game at the time. I played with an oversize after borrowing a friend's one day and traded my Radical TT Tour Midplus' for his OS'. The OS suited my return game and kick serve better than a MP.

    I bought the Radical LE's because they were the closest thing to what I played with in HS (the TT Tour and Ti.Radicals). I do admit that Agassi influenced my decision to demo the Radical, but was not the reason I used it.
     
    #39
  40. hyogen

    hyogen Hall of Fame

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    then i'm not much different than you! so please criticize me less... hurts my feelings :( haven't you had a 3-6 month period when you went demo crazy? I think this is the one time in my life to have 6 month stint of demo craziness. in the end I picked a racquet that is good, but gives me some wrist issues with playing too much in a week. so i just tried out a racquet everyone seems to love and have found that I can play with it almost as well as any other racquet. so I'm just gonna stick with it. I don't care what pro is using it still...I do care that it is good enough for a pro even with all the new technologies and all these years, so it's good enough for me.

    so i'm sticking with this for good. life's too short to keep switching. as was originally suggested 6 months ago, I'm gonna stick with one racquet and improve my technique. AND will get lessons as soon as i'm able :)
     
    #40
  41. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    3 - 6 months! Holy Cow!

    Wow, it takes me three weeks tops.
     
    #41
  42. hyogen

    hyogen Hall of Fame

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    meaning you've had more than one or two of these stints? this was the only demo'ing stint i've ever had and it is my last :)
     
    #42
  43. shwetty[tennis]balls

    shwetty[tennis]balls Rookie

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    Keep up the hard work, REALLY KEEP UP THE HARD WORK, and LOTS of it!!!
     
    #43
  44. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    Yes, now that you put it more in perspective, I guess I am limited to just players racquets so it makes it somewhat easier to get the demoing over with. I have been playing since I was around 8 years old.

    I actually hate demoing. When I find the racquet that feels like an extension of my arm, demoing is over.

    I only have a few racquets to choose from in the players class of racquets. I also find Granvilles insight on how the racquet felt very similar to what I feel in the racquet, so I usually isolate those racquets that he had good reviews on.
     
    #44
  45. Eph

    Eph Professional

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    I have a question about the wrist. Is there a video that shows (in slow motion) how your wrist moves during the serve? That's what I don't understand on how to do it - that and the pronate part.
     
    #45
  46. Nellie

    Nellie Hall of Fame

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    BB. that's because both of you are old school.


    Off topic, but I will admit, however, that if you watch Granville play in the video reviews, it is effortless.
     
    #46
  47. Nellie

    Nellie Hall of Fame

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    Eph - I like this video about Sampras's pronation

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DpptgXq5j4
     
    #47
  48. Eph

    Eph Professional

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    #48
  49. seb85

    seb85 Rookie

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    Come on guys keep it on topic... Technique only!

    The pronation should come on its own without you thinking about it too much. You need to be aware that it should happen, but i would argue that other things need fixing first. Once you have mastered the rope drill that BB has suggested, keeping a floppy wrist will cause you to automatically pronate.

    Snapping the wrist down on purpose is not the idea and will give you wrist problems in the long run (or already? since you mentioned a hurting wrist)
     
    #49
  50. baek57

    baek57 Professional

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    looks like you are trying to hit down on the ball... you should really try to be hitting up on it. you should be bending your knees after you toss the ball and hit the ball from a higher contact spot and more in the court.
     
    #50

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