*** New Stringway Cross Stringing Tool***

Discussion in 'Stringing Techniques / Stringing Machines' started by 1012007, Nov 9, 2008.

  1. scotus

    scotus Legend

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    I bought both at the same time since I did not know exactly which one I would need and perhaps I might string more than one type of frames.

    I found that strangely enough I was misweaving quite a bit using the tool. All you have to do is watch the first and the last mains and the tool takes care of the rest, but I was for some reason messing it up, whereas I never misweave when I do it without the tool.

    Not only that, the comb was too long and was useless for the last 4-5 crosses. I know I could take care of this by sawing off the ends but I have not gotten around to it.

    I tell you what, though: The tool is great if you have to deal with cheap and fragile guts like Global Gut. But since I do not use those anymore, I haven't had a need for it.
     
  2. scotus

    scotus Legend

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    Yes, unless I am stringing up cheap guts, I find it easier to do without it.
     
  3. jnd28

    jnd28 Rookie

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    I got mine when they were first released. I was so looking for ward to using them. Mostly because I was string mostly gut and being new to stringing, I could not figure out how to weave the crosses and pull the string though without really bruising it. To make a short story even shorter, I tried to use this twice and ended up breaking the mains in the process. End of story. They are in the drawer. I am pretty mechanically inclined and this thing has me flumoxed.

    JND28
     
  4. Technatic

    Technatic Semi-Pro

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    you and your cross stringer

    Hi Jnd28;
    The question is: Does this say something about the tool or about you?
    Did you read the manual or look at the video?
    How long did it take you to start using a computer?

    I think that these tools do quite an intelligent job and you have to understand them to be able to use them.
     
  5. Supracool94

    Supracool94 Semi-Pro

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    I just received both LD + HD tools with my Apex II, and they did not come with any documentation or instructions. I have not had a chance to watch the video, however I will make sure and watch it before I use them.
     
  6. Il Mostro

    Il Mostro Banned

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    Last edited: Oct 18, 2009
  7. Technatic

    Technatic Semi-Pro

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    faster, easier and more convenient

    I did a lot of a stringing since 1982 and have learned some things about stringers:
    - They always want to prove how fast they are. Which is not so smart anyway because a fast stringers is “soft” stringer.
    - New items that they can not handle are always bad inventions.

    I bought the MK1 cross stringing tool around 1985 and bought the new set of tools now.
    And I am convinced there is no way to beat the tool once you are used to it.
    - The weaving and pulling through goes much quicker.
    - There is no damage to the strings.
    - The gain in speed with mono’s and gut is even bigger.
    - And on top of that stringing goes much more relaxed and you do not stand with a bended back all the time.

    I met quite some experienced stringers who wanted to prove their weaving speed compared to the tool and I can assure you; none of them was faster, not either the Wimbledon stringer on the GSS symposium in Orlando last year who also tried.

    But to be able to use it fast you have to understand it for 100 %, and that takes some time.

    Supracool94: Just send me a private message with your email address and I will send you the manual you should have received it by email it is not enclosed with the tool.

    But of course Il Mostro if you prefer to rate your skill higher that is up to you. And indeed, you do not have to be Einstein but you need some intelligence.

    Technatic
     
  8. 1012007

    1012007 Hall of Fame

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    Technatic, you appear to know alot about the tool, but I guess it is because you have been using these kind of tools since 85.

    I bought one of the tools, and it took me I would say 5 rackets before I got 100% used to it. Now i use it as long as the type of racket allows me, as it is so much quicker and the string doesnt get damaged in any way at all. The big positive for me is you can easily pull the string through the tool, this saves time and your hands are fine afterwards.
    I would echo what you said above, take the time to get used to the tool and you will be able to see how quick and easy using the tool can be
     
  9. gotwheels

    gotwheels Semi-Pro

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    Technatic, The tool looks like it would be beneficial especially to the handling integrity of natural gut. One question for general stringing - when one strings with with varying main/cross tensions to achieve a targeted DT, how have you determined your cross reference tension? Is there a formula or correlation or is it just time and estimation to gain experience and measured finished data? Thanks
     
  10. Technatic

    Technatic Semi-Pro

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    I assume you mean in combination with the cross stringers?
    The cross stringers do not have influence on the tension that you choose in the crosses because you take the string out of the tool before you pull tension.
     
  11. COPEY

    COPEY Hall of Fame

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    I strung my first set of poly yesterday morning. The racquet owner loved her new string job, but man is that stuff hard on the fingers. At some point I'm going to be stringing gut, so I'm definitely interested in hearing more about this tool. Personally, I'm not looking to circumvent becoming a skilled weaver. I just figured it'd be nice to have an option when it comes to stringing (1) fragile strings and (2) strings that are hard on the fingers.

    Looking forward to hearing what you think of the tools, Supra!
     
  12. Technatic

    Technatic Semi-Pro

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    Sore fingers and back

    Hi Copey,

    That is why I could not think about stringing without my cross stringers.
    When I still used the old one I had to do some racquet “by hand” and I hated those.

    I use the new ones always now so no “hand-effort” anymore and no bending forward either which is better for my back.

    And I saw that the tools are in reach of more people now because Stringway optimized their production resulting in much lower prices. I received a newsletter from them.

    And it is an investment for life because these tools will last for ever.
     
  13. scotus

    scotus Legend

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    I have had this tool ever since it was released in the U.S.

    The only time I found it useful was when I tried to string up cheap guts like Global.

    Other than that, I prefer hand-weaving, and I am by no means a fast weaver.
     
  14. Technatic

    Technatic Semi-Pro

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    ??

    This is very amazing for me.
    What are the reason that you prefer hand-weaving?
     
  15. 000KFACTOR90000

    000KFACTOR90000 Professional

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    I think better youtube instructional videos would be a good start.
     
  16. Jerry Seinfeld

    Jerry Seinfeld Professional

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    I found the cross stringing tool results in an inconsistent stringbed. Most likely the result from all the stretching it does on the mains. Cool tool, though the final outcome is not desirable.
     
  17. equinox

    equinox Hall of Fame

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    Is this tool being used in sporting goods stores to quicken newbie stringer employees?

    has anyone posted side by side video comparing the cross stringing times?

    wouldn't this tool provide a disincentive for lazy home stringers to work on there techniques?
     
  18. PimpMyGame

    PimpMyGame Hall of Fame

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    This question reminds me of what I say about my profession. Being in the finance field, I was brought up with doubel entry bookkeeping, hand-written trial balances and manual payroll bureau work. In today's workplace everything is computerised but I bet I can spot a problem and know how to work it out a lot quicker than an accountant who hasn't had to go through the manual processes to pay the mortgage.
     
  19. Technatic

    Technatic Semi-Pro

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    Hi Jerry,
    I would like to know why the cross stringer has influence on the consisntency of the string bed. I always use the SW stiffness tester and never noticed a difference between with or without the tool.

    The actual stretching of the string is so minimum because the tools only move the string 5 mm.
    If you move a main string 5 mm by hand nothing will happen with the string either.
     
  20. lwto

    lwto Professional

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    By hand weaving one has the right to be called an artisan weaver.
     
  21. Technatic

    Technatic Semi-Pro

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  22. kkm

    kkm Semi-Pro

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  23. Technatic

    Technatic Semi-Pro

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    learing

    Thanks kkm,

    It may be tongue and cheek but it also means that you can learn from forum discussions.
    You may speak foreign languages but you do not know the sayings from that country, I googled and now I know what it means.
     
  24. sman789

    sman789 Rookie

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    Sorry to resurrect a dead thread but I was recently told about this device. I watched the YouTube video on how to use it. I wouldn't touch this thing with a 10 ft pole. It's putting a lot of stress on the mains and it just seems cumbersome. Hand weaving is quicker and that's why you don't see any pro stringer using this.

    (Been stringing for 7+ years, more than 2,000 rackets strung)
     
  25. 10SDad

    10SDad Rookie

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    Since this post was recently "resurrected"...

    Been stringing for 12+ years. I have used these cross-stringing tools for more than two years, so I speak from personal experience. Knowing how and when to use these tools is key to leveraging them. They are not for every string job, every racquet, or every type of string. However, they are invaluable to completing a great string job with no damage to the string and minimal impact on the stringer's fingers in the right application. That may be a profiled poly, a particularly stiff string, certain applications using gut, and hybrids. When used properly, at the correct times and in the correct places on a stringbed, it does not overly stress the mains nor does it make the process cumbersome. These tools in fact can improve results and save some time. It's just a matter of having the experience and applying the knowledge.
     
  26. volusiano

    volusiano Hall of Fame

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    I've been stringing for about 10 years on a LaserFibre MS200 DX. I only string my own rackets and for friends, not for money. So I don't string that many racket a year, especially since I'm not a string breaker myself.

    I've switched to primarily use full natural gut bed lately, so I see value in this device to minimize string burn and I don't have to take too long to be too careful when weaving crosses with gut. Before gut, I used full poly bed and poly was a bear to weave for me, too.

    I decided to order this cross stringer tonight. Sure, I've gone 10 years without it and I probably don't really need it. But it's nice to have and I can afford it so I decided to go for it.

    It may not have a place with the pro stringers because it may not save them time and effort, but I think it has a place with recreational stringers like myself who can afford it as a nice-to-have.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2015
  27. 10SDad

    10SDad Rookie

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    Would love to have a 200DX!

    I string for friends/players as well, and do charge so I need to make sure everything is correct and consistent. One client uses a full stringbed of Babolat VS so it is important I take care in doing his racquets. You'll find that the cross-stringing tool alleviates any weaving issues of gut while maintaining its integrity. A bit of advice from my personal experience. Don't use the tool too close to the head as you start the first few crosses, nor too close to the throat as you end them. Keeping it a bit farther from the head as you start and removing it with when you reach the final 2-3 crosses allows effective use of the tool without too much pressure on the mains as you get near the frame. After using it a couple of times you'll get the feel for that and it will be second nature.
     
  28. volusiano

    volusiano Hall of Fame

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    Thanks for the advice, 10SDad. Yeah, I saw their video and I don't get why some people say they don't use it for the first few crosses on the top. You can just position it several crosses down and you can still push your top crosses through it just fine like the video shows.

    It's the bottom few crosses at the throat that will need to be woven manually because you don't want to get too close and stress out the string even if there's room.

    I saw them turn it around about half way through in the video. I assume this is only so that you can get closer to the throat if the short end is facing the throat, right? Do you turn it around half way through like they do? Or do you find that the extra time to do this is not worth it if you're not going to try to get it too close to the throat anyway?

    And I assume it'll come with just 1 HD14 white plastic comb, and this comb can be used with either the HD or LD aluminum block?
     
  29. 10SDad

    10SDad Rookie

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    Your assumption is correct, and no, I do not turn it around. I get plenty close without doing so, and just weave the last few manually. If you purchased both tools you should receive three combs. Pic of mine below.
    [​IMG]
     
  30. volusiano

    volusiano Hall of Fame

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    OK thanks. And yes, I purchased a kit for both. It's just on their website it says the combo has the HD, LD and HD14 comb so it wasn't clear to me what I should be getting. Your picture of what I should be getting is very helpful. Thanks!
     
  31. monomer

    monomer Rookie

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    I have one of these that I have used for about 3 years and love it. It is an over-built tool with really nothing that can wear out. I have done around 700 string jobs with it and it is in perfect condition.

    I weave the first two and then start with the Stringway tool on the 3rd cross. It will weave all but the last cross or two depending on the racquet. The amount of displacement that it pushes the mains is small - there is no over stressing. It eliminates probably 90% of the friction on the weaving.

    Going from a small drop weight stringer to a lockout was a big improvement for me. Going from a lockout to an electronic tension head was a big improvement. Using this for crosses was the same kind of improvement for me. It makes doing crosses much more enjoyable. If you are doing a thick stiff poly like Tour Bite or BHB7 it is especially helpful.
     
  32. volusiano

    volusiano Hall of Fame

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    Is there a reason why you choose to weave the first 2 crosses? The way I understand it, there should be no difficulty using the device right away from the first cross onward, no?

    I can understand having to weave the last few crosses. I still don't understand why not use the device right away for the first cross. It's not necessary to place the device close to the top for the first few crosses anyway from what I can see.
     
  33. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    Do you really need to lower tension on the crosses when using this tool? Or can you weave, move ahead, then pull?
     
  34. monomer

    monomer Rookie

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    The tool is too long to fit at the very top and bottom of the frame. You have to manually weave the first and last cross. The 16x19 tool is longer and only able to do the 2nd and 2nd to last crosses about half the time.

    I always weave the 2nd cross first and then the first cross. I used to use the tool to start the 2nd cross sometimes but find it simpler to just do it the same way every time.
     
  35. volusiano

    volusiano Hall of Fame

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    The tool only has to be BELOW the crosses in the area not woven yet. But it doesn't have to be RIGHT AT where the crosses are. So it should not be an issue to situate the tool not that close to the top but a bit below the top, and still be able to feed the first rows of crosses through the tool just fine.

    At least that's my understanding from watching the video of it. Now at the throat it's a different story because the tool has to be below the woven crosses (assuming you do top down), so I can see the need to weave the last few crosses at the throat. But at the top, I don't think there's anything stopping you from feeding the first cross through the tool.

    Below is an excerpt from Fred Timmer's (who developed the tool, I think) comment on the Stringway/Alpha website's review of the tool, which mentioned that they weave the top few crosses manually:

    "But there is one thing that amazes me a little.

    Why not use the tool for the first 3 to 4 cross strings?
    Just place the unit in the middle of the string bed with the short channel at the side of the head and pull the string through.

    The advantage is also that you can start directly in the way that you prefer to use the tool and no need to think about how to weave the first strings."
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2015
  36. volusiano

    volusiano Hall of Fame

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    The only reason anyone may want to lower tension on the crosses is if they tension while the cross is still inside the tool and the mains are not in contact with the cross.

    But I think the intent is not to tension while the cross is in the tool. The intent is to feed the cross through, then release the cross from the tool, then tension the cross afterward the normal way with the mains already back in contact with the cross. In this case, it's the same as normal stringing so no tension change is needed.
     
  37. monomer

    monomer Rookie

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    You can do it either way. In this video they do it the way you mention (at 1:20)-

    Stringway Cross Stringer

    I don't find this to be convenient for a couple of reasons. First, I use the long side of the tool so it is flipped around like they have it at 3:30 in the video. I prefer to keep it the same way and not flip it partway through stringing. Also, I am usually using poly and it is more awkward to feed around the tool when it's not straight inline with the grommet hole.

    Either way it is very quick and easy so it really just comes down to what method you find the easiest.
     
  38. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    I don't have the tool and if someone wants to use it more power to them. I've seen video of the tool being used and one advantage is to reduce weave weaving the cross. If the tool is not in line withe the grommet holes of the cross being ran you will have to pull the string through the beginning grommet, then through the tool then through the exit grommet or you will have a lot of friction at the grommets. Of course you could just thread a short section move the tool off and then fan the cross string through. But then you have to weave every inch of the whole cross string through every time.

    Those top three crosses before any cross is tensioned is the easiest crosses you will ever string it you preweave the before the two outside mains are in and it also eliminates any blocked holes at the top. Not saying either method is better than another just trying to answer the question about not using the tool for the top crosses.
     
  39. volusiano

    volusiano Hall of Fame

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    Thanks Irvin. What you said makes sense.

    If you weave by hand you'd have to do the same thing in bold above, right? So either way requires the bold part above. So I guess if the logic is that "the first few crosses are so easy to weave, why bother use the tool?", then I understand the logic.

    I think for poly or synth gut or multifilament strings, I agree that doing either way above is neither better or worse. But for natural gut, I can see the value of still feeding the first few crosses into the tool instead, to avoid having to do the bold part above and minimize friction burn.

    For natural gut, I always feed most of the string through the begin grommet first (and leave only enough behind to reach the tensioner) although this takes more time. This way, I don't weave with the tip of the string to avoid having to pull the whole string across the mains and burn it. Instead, I make a loop after that and weave the loop through the mains. Then I pull the rest of the string through with minimal burn before feeding the tip to the end cross grommet. This approach definitely takes more time, in the interest of minimizing the burn.

    But now with this tool, instead of taking this approach, I can simply feed the tip through the tool and pull the whole string through the tool with no friction all in one shot. So it's definitely more time savings especially when doing natural gut and moreover, guarantees minimal burn.

    Another thing I notice, but unrelated to the above discussion, is that with the traditional way, people like to weave 1 ahead to help make the weaving faster because the last cross under tension forces the mains to be more out of the way. The thing with weaving 1 ahead, though, is that you need to leave enough slack on the untensioned cross before it in order to be able to reach the tension head when it's ready for tension. Then later you gotta pull up this slack up again. I notice that using this tool eliminates the need to weave 1 ahead, which is nice because you no longer need to bother with saving enough slack then pull slack later again. Just tension the last cross nice and tight and clamp off before feeding the next cross through the tool.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2015
  40. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Not true if you preaweave the top thre crosses 3 - 2 - 1 then you only run enough of the string to run in those crosses once.

    On the contrary since the mains are looser with not tension on any crosses when you run in the top three crosses and you don't have to weave the bottom section of the string for the crosses if you preweave the top by hand it is much easier on any type string to hand weave the top crosses

    I string in the top two crosses with no loop between the first and second cross. Hold the top cross with a starting clamp and tension the second. Much faster and if you careful even though there is friction there is no burn damage.

     

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