Discussion in 'Junior League & Tournament Talk' started by klu375, Oct 21, 2011.
D1 isn't that hard to achieve? Really? Wow, u learn something new and amazing around here everyday.
Timing is everything
The changes the USTA has made just mean you have to move up earlier and plan more ahead and take advantage of every national competition you can get into, if a national ranking is the goal.[/QUOTE]
My daughter just aged into the 16s and is now chasing all the girls who already have 16 points from the previous table. She is 250 nationally and top 50 TR. Based on the new points table it will be pretty tough to climb that ladder in a year. Of course she does well than I guess it all takes care of itself but the unfortunate part is as of now no one is starting at 0.
My daughter just aged into the 16s and is now chasing all the girls who already have 16 points from the previous table. She is 250 nationally and top 50 TR. Based on the new points table it will be pretty tough to climb that ladder in a year. Of course she does well than I guess it all takes care of itself but the unfortunate part is as of now no one is starting at 0.[/QUOTE]
Don't worry too much. If she is really good enough to be considered for nationals or a top D1 program, she will only need to get to third place in one of the sectionals. This mostly affects the bottom dwellers that go around to every sectional, regional, and national tourney chasing national points and eke out one round here and there and end up with a national ranking around 150 or so. Legitimate top 100 players should have no problem with the new point system.
Not exactly that easy. Let's say she gets 3rd place at 3 sectionals (~18 matches). That would amount to a total of 75 measly national points. The other girls that have the points to get into a regional will get 80 points for just one win. So, in other words, if you don't already have points, you are relegated to smaller tournaments until your second year when your peers have aged out.
Actually you would not get 80 points for just one win at the regional any more. It would be something like 24-28 points. Aging up next year will be brutal. Tough life of bottom dwellers, especially if money is an issue. Maybe just relax with travelling in 2012 and spend all dough for private lessons and SAT prep.
You have time to figure out how to navigate, as the 14's are the least important rankings.
Stay in mainstrean schooling, get good grades (not average grades), develope his game and look early toward the 16's, try to get a headstart on the 16's....do not worry about rankings, he will fall in where he belongs when he competes in the events, be do not waste time and or money worryibg about a 14's ranking, IT DOES NOT MATTER.
The comment on Diaz is spot on, a few of the bests kids in the ******* did the samething and are currently in very good schools
This messy procedure is decribed on USTA site but link does not work since they changed interface. The tournament below has most of the relevant info on their front page:
The way it works is that each site takes the top 32 ranked players who apply to that site. Then, those players have a designated amount of time (a few days) to declare which site they are going to. After that, the 'alternates' are ordered for each site and many more people get in. I'm not sure if I explained that clearly but I do know how it works, so ask if you have another queston.
Confusion is created when they order alternates. It seems some TDs put some younger players in first while others do not. There is a process how they should order alternates and I think it was quietly changed in the middle of the year. At some point younger players with ranking up to 200 would have precedence.
Don't worry too much. If she is really good enough to be considered for nationals or a top D1 program, she will only need to get to third place in one of the sectionals. This mostly affects the bottom dwellers that go around to every sectional, regional, and national tourney chasing national points and eke out one round here and there and end up with a national ranking around 150 or so. Legitimate top 100 players should have no problem with the new point system.[/QUOTE]
Thanks she actually was endorsed for the Winter Nat's, so the sectional play does work, and at least she'll get to play one big nat more event till the points change.
The problem isn't that your girl isn't good enough. The problem is that if she's good enough and can't enter the tournament by "showing up" due to the limited size and lack of qualifying rounds. She has to have ranking points to enter tournaments and in order to get those points she has to enter tournaments and in order to enter tournaments she has to have ranking points .......get the point? So the kids that get in early and win in 12's get to play the best and improve while others have to hope their kid makes a good run at some sectionals then pops off a couple of wins at a national segment early in his/her two year age bracket in order to start playing up and accumulating points for the next age bracket.
Yes I do 'get the point'. However we are in a different situation than most, my kid is a freak. Not bragging, just stating facts, and the opinions of others that see her hit and play practice points. She walks into a situation of what are considered talented kids and within minutes it is obvious she is on another level. Again, no bragging, perhaps it has zero to do with my coaching. She has a great uncle who was a world class athlete before tearing up his shoulder....perhaps she just inherited it and I was in the right place at the right time by starting her at 18 months old into tennis.
The girls that played in the Herr's 12s finals? She will be much better than they are are by age 11. The flaws in their games are huge, yet they are among the best 12s. Thus I have no worries that in the future she will be just fine taking a different path.
I do not agree at all that kids improve in the 12s. I think the reverse. Watch the Herr's winner hit with a dead end forehand grip, and her opponent have a mediocre serve....12s means nothing. Kids who focus on development and properly designed practice matches improve more, especially if they are freaks. They can then learn to compete as time goes on....16s-18s. We will also focus more on ITFs than USTA as she gets older.
I would agree with you that some kids need to take the path you set out or be shut out of higher level tournaments. But if the end result of the USTA points situation is that American kids now have to take points even more seriously in the 12s?? That will result in worse technique and strategy and overall development long term. If you think the kids who "get in early and win in 12's" will truly be the best in the end compared to kids world wise....sorry, more likely the reverse is true.
Unless, the freak player has a freak coach who gets it and doesn't sacrifice technique just to get points.
True. But Erman is like most tennis parents. If the new point situation means the 12s must be not only taken seriously, but points gathered or the next age bracket is shot. That will be contagious, even parents and coaches who know better might fall prey to this dynamic.
Just imagine the 12s in 5 years if this happens...everyone fighting to just win and get some points, no matter what. You think cheating and poor technique are bad now.
The USTA has forced this on the parents with the limited draws.
When my son started with no points, the draws were still big, and he could get in as an alternate.
Now, he would never get in.
However, now he has to play up using his lower age national ranking.
He shows up at a national level 2 and 3, and wins two rounds, and we fly home.
Waste of money and time....
It is self fulfilling destructive way to build a tennis player.
Thank the USTA for F___ing it all up.
It is 4 players from the lower age group.
If you are talking about initial acceptance - it is 6 players from lower age group for L3 National. I was talking about ordering alternates. At one tournament my daughter ended up being #1 alternate at one location and #15 at another because TDs followed different procedures.
For example, L2 over Thanksgiving, I thought it was 4 players.
It was my son and 3 other players who were still in the younger age group.
But, I can't pull anything up right now.
The 2012 tournaments have you click on a tab that sends you back to the main page.
The original question was about Regional Segments that are L3s. Tennislink is messed up lately and is probably under maintenance Sunday evening. It seems they are working diligently to feed us more ads. I thought we already pay enough fees to support this site without ads. I can accept USTA- related ads but Groupon, Alamo, Hyundai, etc... - this is dsigusting.
TCF - you are bragging. Stop hanging out with "massage therapist" and re-read your own posts in this other thread. There are no prizes for hitting and playing points, it is winning Eddie Herr that makes you a freak. Mediocre serve? Half of WTA has a mediocre serve. You do not like her forehand? I saw her match - she knows how to win. Every 12-14 girl that played Eddie Herr has technical and/or tactical flows. So what - they are work in progress.
You have a long long way to go with your daughter. Some of her competition did not even discover tennis yet - but they are scoring goals on soccer and lax fields and they are very athletic and tenacious. Pace yourself, your main goal is to make sure she does not quit before ITF age. And do not brag until she wins something big.
I hope he brags about his daughter. Doesn't bother me at all.
Well, it is a little strange that he is ok with bragging about his daughter, but not ok with Number 1 coach bragging about DB...
DB can run a mile in a few minutes, and this girl is a freak.....
To quote TCF, she is taking a different path,
"Thus I have no worries that in the future she will be just fine taking a different path."
but not ok for DB to take a different path.....
If you are going to judge someone else's child, at least apply the same rules for judgement.
Simply amazing that posters can not put simple thoughts in context. First of all, winning in the 12s, no matter what, Herr, anything....is worthless. That does not make you a freak...UNLESS you win it with showing freakish talent, and not patting moon balls back with the worst grip I have ever seen. Look at the stupid video I posted, for goodness sakes her forehands are the worst moon balls with the worst grip I have ever seen. She ain't no freak, she runs down balls and wins in the worthless 12s.
My kid is a freak...IN HER CURRENT CONTEXT. I said what the context was.....she is big, well muscled, fast, and the context of drills and practice points. That is the context I am referring to when I say freak. How hard is that to understand? I expect her to continue showing such ability BUT SHE MAY NOT. I have said this 10000 times....she will compete vs the best and if she can not hack it, we will admit it. We will not dodge. If she peaks at age 12, then flattens, so be it.
DB has shown he is not a freak. Perhaps he was in the 12s because he was 90 feet taller than anyone he played, but not any more. If my kid stops showing freakishness at any point.....we shall then adjust accordingly and go a more traditional route towards college. Duh, common sense anyone??
klu....you could not be any more wrong. So what if half the WTA has bad serves? Ever seen a 7 year old practicing serves and have people walking by stop and watch...for the entire basket of balls? Well we get that all the time. She serves like a freak for her age, amazing form and velocity. IN THE CONTEXT OF PRACTICE SERVES! If she can not do it down the road in live competition, so be it. So my bragging is limited to the dang context I fully disclosed in my post.
Brad has said all along it is HIS coaching and training and path that made his kid what he is. Has said he knows how to make a champion. I said my coaching had nothing to do with it....she probably inherited her athletic talent from a great uncle.
If you guys can not see the total opposite....one guy giving all the credit to himself...and me deflecting all credit, you are pretty dense.
I am really surprised that you write this stuff. I can just take your posts from other thread and paste them here. You know the difference between serving basket of balls in the park and serving an ace matchpoint down in the EH final like Shishkina did last week. Your daughter receives HP tennis training for 5 years, no doubts she looks impressive for a 7 yo. When my daughter trained outdoors at 10 (just playing for a few months) random pedestrians would stop and watch her too (mostly older jewish people walking to synagogue). There was also a bus stop but we will discount captive audience waiting for the bus. Basically when you have a very young kid that looks competent in what he/she does it always attracts attention (not going to go into piano examples).
Reminds me of a joke my son tells.
Q: Who's the Darkhorse in the next WTA (insert tournament name) event?
A: Everyone, including the seeds.
I look forward to hearing how she does when she starts to play tournament matches.
I'm sure she'll be fine. From all indications, TCF is a great tennis parent.
This is probably the most important piece of advice you can give any tennis parent. It is a balancing act to find that range between enough work to be great and too much work that leads to burn out.
Some kids just loose interest even if you do pace yourself. Tennis is a lot of work for a long time.
I look forward to how she does when she is about 13, and really don't care what she does in her first couple of tournaments, and don't care what other girls do in the 12s. I have seen amazing girls in the 12s, who could beat the boys, won tournaments, etc., who ended up as 2-3 star recruits who could not get a look from the colleges they once dreamed of going to.
Very valid. Also, some kids loose interest as the opposite sex usually poses a great distraction.
Speaking of USTA, had a strange encounter today. We were hitting at a large public complex late this afternoon. A lady came charging onto the court and interrupted my daughter's practice. She said she represented "junior talent recruitment for the USTA".
She went on and on about how the USTA is searching for young talents like hers, and she could set us up with all sorts of free training and equipment, etc. She was extremely aggressive. Started interrogating the kid about her goals in tennis.
I had no idea that USTA even had such in the field recruiters for such a young kid. I have her business card and plan on researching who the heck she is. I kind of played dumb about being a coach and let her ramble on.
Interesting TCF. Does she work for the USTA? What was her name? Is her title on the card?
Let me look into it more before giving her name. Across the top of her card is a banner that says "to promote and develop tennis". As far as title, it just lists that she is 'USPTA Instructor'.
I wonder if she is some sort of 'head hunter'....maybe gets something for bringing kids to USTA's attention? If she actually worked for them her card would say that I would think.
I highly doubt she works for the USTA. That's why I asked for her name, rank, title, etc... It's not their MO to "charge" on the court and "interrupt" a practice. And I doubt the talent ID coaches hang out at public parks looking for junior talent the week before Orange Bowl.
TCF, I know you're not a fan as the past is ugly and tale telling but, the "current" USTA player development program is making progress. Track the boys and girls successes in 2011. Look at the caliber and potential of the girls that are now in the program - Keys, Townsend, Oudin, Crawford, Min, etc... They are starting to attract some talented "nice" kids. Track the number of gold, silver and bronze balls and some of the national wins that came out of the USTA program last year. It's good stuff.
Personally, I wish the USTA would share more of these successes as I think it's an important component to growing our juniors. I suspect the USTA doesn't get caught up in all the trophy talk but it's still an indicator that we're on the right path.
I'm off to the Orange Bowl!
Can not agree with you in any way on this one chalk. None of the trophies or gold balls mean a thing. Those kids would have won them had the USTA simply subsidized their coaching in existing private locations at much less cost.
The high performance program is totally redundant. Surrounding Boca are a multitude of excellent tennis coaches and academies. There is zero need for a stand alone USTA academy.
The mission statement is clear....develop American Champions. It never has and has no more odds of producing a top 5 player than many private coaches or academies have. It is simply a terrible idea and a waste of funds that could be used to grow the game at the local level.
None of the girls you listed is a jaw dropping player. Oudin? Seriously? Betting that she will be a future champion is a terrible bet....and that is the charge of high performance and nothing less. They are very good players, but the odds of them winning grand slams is not very high. And the odds would be the same whether USTA spends millions training them or worked with a local academy to train them for a discount.
Enjoy the OB.
You have no other choice but to disagree because you're in too deep. You tell a emotional story about a USTA talent coach "charging" on to your daughter's practice court to work everyone up here. If it was a USTA coach she would have a USTA card. Another feeble attempt to dis the USTA. Hilarious.
I'm sorry dude but you're just not connected with the nuts and bolts of today's program to speak intelligently about it. But I encourage you to keep telling your stories and pouring gas on the fire as any PR is good PR. The program is only going to grow from here. Who knows they may even pour more money into it!
Tell any parent or junior here that winning a gold ball means nothing.
Back to the Orange Bowl! I saw Borza, Boys 14 1 seed save 3 match points in the 2nd set and come back to win in 3 against a lucky loser.
Wow, why get so personal? We have a simple disagreement. I think the high performance program is redundant as we have lots of academies and coaches in the area. I think the money could be better spent in other ways. You think it is a good program. A very simple difference of opinion.
I said I have no idea who the lady was. Her name was Sandy and she talked a mile a minute and she mentioned USTA a few times. I told you I have no idea who she was. I thought it was an interesting to mention. I think it would be cool if the USTA did now have those kinds of aggressive scouts around...how is that dissing them?
Not sure how that is pouring gas or whatever. Geez, easy big fella.
Easy big fella? LOL. Not a chance pro! We just disagree on this one. No more of these far reaching USTA recruiter stories though. Deal?
Back to the Orange Bowl! I saw Borza, Boys 14 1 seed save 3 match points in the 2nd set and come back to win in 3 against a lucky loser.[/QUOTE]
I'm pretty sure Borza is going to lose in the second round.
Pierce will have to serve the match of his life and be more consistent on the groundies to beat Borza.
Are you at the Orange Bowl NOLA?
Not sure what your problem is, I described what happened with no agenda at all. Her card says Sandy Bell, USPTA. She said she was 'with' the USTA and scouted talent. Like I said she talked very fast and I was not catching everything....thats why I asked if anyone else had heard of such a thing.
Here is the website listed on the card: http://www.sandyjbell.com
I found this on Linkedin: Sandy Bell. Title: Director Jr. Development & Recruiter at Rising Racquets.
Whats the big deal calling me a liar about something I merely asked if anyone knew anything about? Whatever, PM me an address and I will forward you her card.
Easy big fella. I didn't call you a liar. I guess it's time for a break from the forum. Peace out.
lol, remember watching tomic after he won usa jr events. playing at 16's nats, reps were hovering around everywhere. Generally a bunch of egotisical pushing *******s. Particularly the wilson rep.
Lets not make it all that chalk. When you said "far reaching stories" I interpreted that as you saying I made it up. My apologies if that is not what you meant. It just struck me as odd the way she approached us and I was just wondering if this was a new recruiting thing the USTA had.
If it had been, I would support it as that shows a hunger to find young talents in odd places. I know I take shots at the USTA....but this certainly was not my intention on this matter. I was actually quite flattered!
Awful website. Not even close to the USTA.
Agreed.....I have no idea what Rising Racquets is either. This is why I asked the question in the first place.
Separate names with a comma.