NG/4G & NG/Monogut ZX, which one is better setup?

Discussion in 'Strings' started by SJSA, Apr 18, 2013.

  1. SJSA

    SJSA Semi-Pro

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    Which one is better setup for arm-friendly and durability (tension maintenance)? NG should be in the mains.
     
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  2. phishbiscuits

    phishbiscuits Rookie

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    Monogut Zyex is a mess as a cross...

    Given the need to reduce tension by 10-20% (depending on whether you use the red or natural version), dialing it in as a cross is a bit more tricky.

    I like Ashaway, and am currently experimenting with the Dynamite 17.

    Just my opinion...
     
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  3. phishbiscuits

    phishbiscuits Rookie

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    Also...

    Comparing a poly to a Zyex string is a case of apples v oranges. Compare the stiffness ratings of each string... I did notice when stringing the Monogut ZX that the string exhibited quite a high degree of coil memory.

    Does Wilson own Luxilon yet?
     
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  4. Torres

    Torres Banned

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    As phish has mentioned already they're completely different strings. 4G is very stiff whereas ZX is towards the softer end of the stiffness scale.
     
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  5. corners

    corners Legend

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    No personal experience. But ZX will be far more arm-friendly than 4G, because it is half as stiff. Huge difference in stiffness. In terms of tension maintenance, the lab tests show 4G to hold tension better than any other copoly string. The lab tests also show that ZX is not that great at holding tension. However, ZX is similar to natural gut in that its stiffness does not change appreciably when you go up or down in tension. So when it drops tension you won't notice it very much. In addition, Ashaway claims that ZX holds tension better than synthetic gut, so it could be that the lab tests are showing something about ZX that isn't happening in the real world. From reading the playtest reports we have about the string, the consensus seems to be that ZX holds tension very well.

    Finally, another thing to consider is surface hardness. With gut mains, you want a cross that will remain smooth and slippery and will not dent. Copolys typically have these qualities, which is why they are so popular as crosses with gut mains. However, 4G seems to be unusual: it has a somewhat soft, "gummy" surface that is prone to notching quickly and getting torn up in the crosses. By contrast, ZX seems to be holding up very well for people using at as a cross with copoly and Kevlar mains. It should do very well with gut mains as well.

    As soon as winter finally ends, I'm stringing up gut/ZX. If arm-safety is a priority for you I don't think you'll find much better than this combination aside from a full bed of gut.
     
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  6. SJSA

    SJSA Semi-Pro

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    Corners, thank you for your great answer.
    I am aware of the high stiffness and good tension maintenance of 4G.
    I recently learned about Monogut ZX. It is poly but its stiffness is similar to natural gut. I'm wondering its tension maintenance.
    I have tennis elbow and arm-safety is my priority.
    Please write your review after you try NG/ZX.
    Thanks again.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2013
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  7. corners

    corners Legend

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    ZX is not a poly. It's a Zyex monofilament. Zyex is very flexible, like natural gut, but it is also slippery and hard-surfaced like a copoly. On paper, it should be the perfect cross string for someone wanting comfort and power and no "string movement."
     
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  8. SJSA

    SJSA Semi-Pro

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    I believe its construction is Zyex polymer monofilament not multifilament.
     
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  9. fgs

    fgs Hall of Fame

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    sjsa,

    a monofilament does not neccessarily have to be a poly, a term which is generally attributed to other "polymers" than zyex. of course zyex seems to be a polymer too, but a completely different chemical composition than what is generally understood by poly and co-poly.
     
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  10. mmk

    mmk Professional

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    To follow up on what fgs wrote, in tennis poly generally refers to a monofilament polyester-based string. Zyex is not a polyester-based string, it is polyketone-based, and is available as both a multifilament (Dynamite) or a monofilament (Monogut).
     
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  11. corners

    corners Legend

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    Nobody said anything about multi.
     
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  12. phishbiscuits

    phishbiscuits Rookie

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    #12
  13. HIT MAN

    HIT MAN New User

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    Fyi

    This has my attention, there web site shows a mono gut zx pro 1.22 as being
    available ,if i can find some I am going to do a volkl mid with wilson 17 gut
    mains / zx pro 1.22 cross- anybody have it yet??
     
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  14. Torres

    Torres Banned

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    Not entirely accurate. Dynamite is a nylon/zyex mix (in what proportions no one knows), whereas Monogut ZX is 100% zyex.
     
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  15. esgee48

    esgee48 Hall of Fame

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    Zyex is is another name for polyetheretherketones. Polyesters are made from esters. If you look up the chemical compositions, the chemical groups have significant different properties when polymerized.
     
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  16. SJSA

    SJSA Semi-Pro

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    #16
  17. corners

    corners Legend

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    Yeah, I know, that's why I said nobody said anything about multis! :) I started a thread on ZX that has gotten quite long now, you might want to check it out. But there aren't many reports yet on gut/ZX. Most people have either tried it in full beds or as a cross for copoly mains (where it has been getting praise.)

    And Ashaway just posted this new page about ZX: http://www.ashawayusa.com/Polyketone7.php

    Dude at the bottom of the page talks up gut/ZX, whoever he is.
     
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  18. corners

    corners Legend

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    That's not entirely accurate either. :) My understanding is that Dynamite is composed of a bundle of thin zyex strands surrounded by a braid of nylon. The zyex strands are not attached to each other, simply lying parallel, so the nylon outer braid holds them all together and also provides them with protection. The problem is that nylon isn't really that tough, so the outer braid gets shredded. This has been the chief complaint about Dynamite for years.

    With Monogut ZX, Ashaway finally figured out how to make a Zyex monofilament. So it appears like a copoly - it is smooth and has a hard surface, but there isn't any polyester in it. Zyex is much less stiff than polyester, so even though it looks like polyester, slides and snaps back like polyester, and has durability closer to polyester than a syngut or multi, it is not polyester. It is half as stiff as a typical copolyester string, which is why it is so interesting to so many people. Imagine, a string with a mix of the qualities of natural gut (very low dynamic stiffness) and copoly (spin, durability, no need to straighten strings.)

    (Sorry Torres, wasn't addressing you really, just giving a little background info for people entering this thread without having read the Zyex Monogut thread..)
     
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  19. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    This string is very interesting and sounds like a softer alternative to a copoly, but it is marketed as an alternative to natural gut. NOT ONE PERSON in the RSI reviews mentioned that it felt like natural gut?? So I don't think it succeeded on that level.
     
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  20. Ramon

    Ramon Hall of Fame

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    I tried Mamba Premium Gut mains with Monogut Zyex crosses and it was a disaster. It's nothing like gut/poly. It was too powerful, had little spin, and worst of all was the feeling of isolation from the ball. Mono Zyex is not for me.
     
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  21. corners

    corners Legend

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    No, nothing is going to give you the feel of natural gut.

    But, “With a 5-10% tension reduction this string performs as well or better than my current natural gut hybrid. It seems to have the control and spin of a co-poly, but with more power. I don’t usually hit with a lot of spin, but the ball rotation I get with this is awesome. This string is also very accurate. I am surprised at the comfort as I expected it to be too stiff. It’s very friendly on the tendons. It also maintains tension remarkably well. I am not a string breaker but I suspect that this string would hold up very well against the competition. I would definitely consider buying it.” 4.0 male baseliner with moderate spin using Boris Becker Delta Core Sportster strung at 62 pounds LO (Volkl V Blast 17)

    From: http://www.racquetsportsindustry.com/articles/2013/03/12_string_playtest_ashaway_mon.html
     
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  22. corners

    corners Legend

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    I still wonder, though, if you would have gotten used to that setup and like it more if you hadn't cut it out after only a few minutes. But of course the string is not for everyone. Feel doesn't seem to be its strong suit. But on the other hand, feel is not the strong suit of copoly either.
     
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  23. travlerajm

    travlerajm Hall of Fame

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    Ramon's experience with gut/zx sounds like my intial experience with full bed zx. I suspect he would have liked it better if he upped the tension 7-10 lbs.
     
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  24. SJSA

    SJSA Semi-Pro

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    Corners, do you recommend Monogut ZX in full bed?
    If so, what is your recommendation for tensions?
    What is other better setup for Mono ZX?
     
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  25. corners

    corners Legend

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    I've never tried it. Still waiting for spring. So I can't make any recommendations. But I did start the Zyex Monogut thread, which has gotten pretty long. I recommend reading through it for tension and other recommendations. Pay particular attention to the posts by Torres, he has played through four or five sets of ZX, in full beds and also in hybrids with copolys and has posted detailed impressions about tension and so on.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2013
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  26. Ramon

    Ramon Hall of Fame

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    What I gave it was about 15-20 minutes of drilling. For the entire time I tried to give myself a reason to keep trying it, but I couldn't think of one. I'm looking for a combination of spin, feel, and control, and this setup gave me none of those.
     
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  27. Torres

    Torres Banned

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    You also strung it at way too low a tension.
     
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  28. Ramon

    Ramon Hall of Fame

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    Perhaps. I set my machine to 50 which usually gives me a Racquetune stringbed reading of 56-58. That's how I usually string multis, and compared to other stringers in the area my multis feel like 58 or higher. I've strung gut/poly too low in the past, and even though it was too powerful, I knew the setup had potential, so I took the time and effort to try it at a higher tension. This setup was such a disaster for me that I didn't feel it was worth the time to try it again.
     
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  29. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

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    What frame did you test this in Ramon?

    50# reference tension in an 18x20, 95" head with a SW of 300 is very different from, say, 50# reference tension in a 16x19, 100" head with a SW of 340. The former might work, the latter would probably be uncontrollable. Tension and string are only parts of the equation.

    I've used gut/poly is both of those frame types and had control issues with certain poly crosses in large, open heads while in small, dense patterns they did perfectly well at low tension. I've gone gut/poly in the PSGT under 50 for both mains and crosses. In a 100", 16x19 frame that same gut/poly setup was so bad I cut it out after just 20 minutes.
     
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  30. Ramon

    Ramon Hall of Fame

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    I use a Pro Kennex Ki 5x. Seriously, don't pay attention to the fact that my machine was set at 50 lbs. I've set to 58 lbs before, and my RacquetTune tension was in the high 60's and it felt like a board. I've asked other people to string my racquets with multi at 58 in the past and thought that they were too loose, and RacquetTune confirmed it. If I set my machine at 50 lbs, I firmly believe it's an honest 57 lbs.

    I've tried lots and lots of string combinations, and the gut/monozyex has to be the worst of them all playwise. The only redeeming factor was that it was friendly on the arm, but I can get that with other strings that are better suited to my game.

    I like to call it as it is. If I really like a string, I'll say so, and if I don't like, I won't sugar coat it. I understand that others are entitled to disagree, and that's fine. We are here to share experiences, and people who agree with me on my other string preferences probably won't like this one either. If all anyone wants to hear is glowing reviews, they can just pick up a magazine that's paid by its sponsors.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2013
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  31. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

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    I really appreciate your feedback. I may sit on the fence a while longer to see how others fare.

    Two of my frames are strung with VS/pre-stretched Focus Hex and the third still has VS/4G. At the very least I'll wait until one of them breaks to reconsider this test.
     
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  32. Ramon

    Ramon Hall of Fame

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    I love gut/poly during the first 3 hours. Nothing else can match it for spin, feel, and power on demand. The only reason I don't use it is because poly dies too quickly and then my arm starts to feel it. Don't expect Monogut Zyex to be a substitute for poly. It's completely different.
     
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  33. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

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    I got to at least see and touch a full bed of Zyex over the weekend at a friend's house. I see why the string bed would end up messy. The mains don't slide over the crosses. They're as sticky as any multi or syn-gut.

    re: gut poly I've found that different polys die in different ways. Some die stiff and hard (RPM) while others get springy and inaccurate. Of course the rate of decay also varies.

    I've enjoyed my experiment with pre-stretched Focus Hex. MSV products such as FH and CoFocus seem to die soft and springy providing less control over time but comfort remains. Pre-stretched FH seems to remains comfortable while also retaining control and wonderful, casually accessible spin. How long that lasts remains to be seen. So far, so good.
     
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  34. Torres

    Torres Banned

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    Of course they do. Not as slippery as a poly, but to say that they don't slide is ridiculous.

    No they're not.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2013
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  35. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

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    When I pulled on them they didn't slide back into position. They remained out-of-position. They also made a very loud rippling/squeaky noise as I moved them. That behavior is similar to that of multis and syn-gut. Nothing ridiculous about that. It's what I saw. They didn't slide back.

    Tension may have a role here but I've never seen a gut/poly hybrid fail to slide into position like this example of full bed Zyex, even at relatively high tension. Maybe Zyex slides better at very low tensions? But then control may suffer as there have been reports that Zyex is very powerful. Rather than taming gut's power as a co-poly does in a gut/poly hybrid Zyex probably doesn't perform that function as well.

    Perhaps they fall somewhere between mutlis and polys when it comes to sliding but they're nowhere close to a smooth poly based on what I've observed and what Ramon reported. His report is very consistent with my admittedly limited observations of Zyex and what I've experienced with many gut/multi experiments. In fact, I've tried other multis that slide better that Zyex.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2013
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  36. travlerajm

    travlerajm Hall of Fame

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    I found that ZX on ZX had a lot more friction than Kevlar on ZX.

    My interstring sliding rankings (from least friction to most, not necessilary in order of spin-friendliness):
    Kevlar/poly > gut/poly > poly/poly > Kevlar/ZX > ZX/ZX > Nylon/Poly > Poly/Nylon > Nylon/Nylon > Kevlar/Nylon > Kevlar/gut
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2013
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