No more Donnay pro ones? Donnay going out of business?

Discussion in 'Racquets' started by The Dark Knight, Oct 15, 2013.

  1. floydcouncil

    floydcouncil Semi-Pro

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    If you can hit with them "just fine" then why do you have to adjust to a "well over spec racquet"?

    Can you not mentally hit with a racquet that is beyond your "optimal" spec? Do you even know what your optimal specs are?

    By your racquet changing pattern, you obviously don't know. And your game never progresses, I'd imagine.

    I wish people would get off of their "QC" crusade and just go and play with a frame to see if they like it or not.
     
  2. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    Sorry to lash out, but your question doesn't make sense. Why would someone change racquets every 3 months because of bad QC? How do those 2 things have anything to do with each other.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2013
  3. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    Well u seem to know all the answers, so I guess I need not respond.
     
  4. tball

    tball Semi-Pro

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    What's confusing about Donnay, is what they advertise is one thing. Then, there is TW data, which is different. Then, there is the actual racquet you got, which happens to be different again. Three sets of specs altogether, none of them match.

    For people who get 20 racquets and get to choose 3, it is not an issue. They probably do not even look at the specs. Just pick the 3 they like the most.

    For people who can only purchase 1, often without demoing, this discrepancy in specs in insane.
     
  5. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    Some people care about specs...some don't. Everyone has a right to care about the details of anything they purchase if they so choose. Has nothing to do with ability or level of play. You could make the argument that higher level players should care less since they have more ability to overcome any deficiencies in an not optimal frame. To the lower level player, these things are more magnified.

    Bottom line is if a company makes a product and claims this product is "so and so" and it never is, then that's just bad QC. Whether it "matters" or not is in the eyes of the user. This entire forum is filled with people that are picky about all things tennis....balls, bags, strings...all the way down to dampenors and overgrip. Does that stuff "matter"? To them it sure does.
    :idea:Why not let the player decide for themselves what matters to them? :idea:
     
  6. scotus

    scotus Legend

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    Solution For Donnay's Qc Problem

    Here's my humble suggestion.

    Donnay can continue to make their racquets the way they do.

    Let's say the target specs for Pro 1 is 64RA and 320g, and with Donnay's manufacturing process, the Pro 1s end up ranging from 60 to 70RA and from 310 to 335g.

    Then they can introduce sub-models for Pro 1, such as UL vs SL for weights and Power vs Control for the flex.

    All they have to do is add a little decal at the end, and voila, all of a sudden it makes them look like they have better quality control.
     
  7. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    Good idea, but won't work since 90% of them are over spec. Would be a good idea if they were 50/50 over & under.
     
  8. floydcouncil

    floydcouncil Semi-Pro

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    That's because you know what I'm saying hits close to home, no?
     
  9. Egoista

    Egoista Professional

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    just look at the QC of say Wilson and compare it to Donnay.......

    lets not go all QC mad here
     
  10. tailofdog

    tailofdog Semi-Pro

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    Under

    Mine is 15grm under
     
  11. tailofdog

    tailofdog Semi-Pro

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    Makes a difference

    I was using a PK racquet I loved but 14 grm over spec which hurt the follow through on my backhand. Age has something to do with it but, specs are important on any racquet that gets over 11oz:shock:
     
  12. Vlad_C

    Vlad_C Semi-Pro

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    At least Wilson has some level of QC...

    With Donnay, it appears that they just send out whatever comes out from the production line, they don't even care how far off-specs they are.
     
  13. atatu

    atatu Hall of Fame

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    Wilson has the worst QC in the industry, so I hope you're joking.
     
  14. Vlad_C

    Vlad_C Semi-Pro

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    ^^
    This year I bought 5 Wilson PS 90s. At different times, from different stores.
    They are all within 3g of each other.
    I'm quite happy with that.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2013
  15. Timbo's hopeless slice

    Timbo's hopeless slice Hall of Fame

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    So Jack. 90% of Donnays are over spec?
    How many have you actually hit with?
    I only ask because I have four, my only experience of the brand, and they are all within 4 g of spec.
    I know this because there's a sticker that actually has the specs on it.
    No other company does this.
    I love Volkls, but they are no more consistent than Donnay in my experience. They just don't admit it and you need the digital scales to know.
    Well, I do anyway!! I can't pick a 5 g difference really..
     
  16. Kal-El 34

    Kal-El 34 Hall of Fame

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    again you are comparing a giant in the industry to a relative start up. The former Donnay matters not in comparing the new one. donnay probably doesnt have the funds to just discard a whole batch of rackets that are a bit off spec. especially when they will sell anyways because they are solid frames

    i would hope wilson would have their stuff together after making frames for so long, but even they have everyone complain about their lack of QC.
     
  17. Kal-El 34

    Kal-El 34 Hall of Fame

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    also.. i know for a fact not nearly 90% are over spec lol. don't just make up percentages to make a point... 4 g above spec is way out of line for JackB1

    otherwise, i would say 90% of the shots you hit are out... regardless of frame
     
  18. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    Tim. I have hit with, looked at or been made aware of about 25 Donnay frames in the past 3 years. The vast majority of those were over spec. A more conservative estimate would be 75%. Yes I know this because I actually look at the stickers. I have a local dealer that specializes in "off brands" and I have seen most of them in his shop. (BTW, the store owner also agrees with me about Donnay's specs being all over the place).
    I have also compared what's actually on the sticker to what the real life specs are and they sometimes differ as well.

    Every brand has it's "fanboys" and it's "detractors". I am neither and have no ties to Donnay (unlike some in this discussion). Best advice I can give is to do your own research and draw your own conclusions. Just the fact that Donnay has had this ongoing issue with the paint flaking off their frames for years now, without doing anyting about it, should tell you something.

    For the record, normally I don't mind up to 5 g's spec difference up or down, but sometimes the racquet you are looking it may be at your own personal maximum for weight/swingweight. Then 5 grams or 10 pts in swingweight makes a huge difference. We all have difference levels of "sensitivity" to these things, which has nothing to do with ability. Just something to know going in, when you purchase Donnay. Other people's experience with Donnay may vary from mine, but this is what I have seen myself.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2013
  19. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    some interesting stuff here as well:

    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=479707&referrerid=59371

    I wish "Chicago Jack" would chime in hear regarding Donnay's specs. He has an arsenal
    of Pro One's and has lots of experience in this issue. Also if anyone care's to search on
    this topic, they will find many posts about this very issue, so it's not just me, as some
    would like you to think.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2013
  20. Don't Let It Bounce

    Don't Let It Bounce Hall of Fame

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    I recently coached at an academy that had a very positive relationship with Donnay. I seem to have misplaced most of the measurements I took of the Donnay-sponsored players, but I do have a couple of pre-customization specs:

    Pro One 16x19 (Tour Bite 17, overgrip, dampener)
    mass (g), balance (mm), sw (kg•cm^2, pendulum method)
    345 323 339
    338 328 335
    339 325 332

    X-Dual Silver 99 (Tour Bite 18, overgrip)
    323 329 321
    325 329.5 324

    I also measured my own frames and found them quite close, but since I never measured them with identical string jobs I'll spare you the details.

    In general, I was pleasantly surprised at how close the specs were on the kids' frames and on mine. My experience is a small sample size, though, and considering the common factors in modern racket-manufacturing processes, I doubt Donnay specs are any more, or any less, consistent from frame to frame than anyone else's.
     
  21. Kal-El 34

    Kal-El 34 Hall of Fame

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    Very amused reading this thread. Everyone on here.. spend some more time training rather than obsessing over minimal differences in racket specs. Trust me....
     
  22. Timbo's hopeless slice

    Timbo's hopeless slice Hall of Fame

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    speak for yourself mate, lol

    I can and do play with anything that comes to hand..
     
  23. Kal-El 34

    Kal-El 34 Hall of Fame

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    I always speak for myself. My profession is helping people with their tennis games right now for at least the short term until beginning to play again in January (fingers crossed). I can't tell you how many people I have seen major improvements in their tennis games when I take the equipment decisions out of their hands. I hit with them a few times, give them a racket with a string set up and let them have it for a month. We might make very minor tweaks to the strings if too tight initially or something, but that's it. After a month we discuss things and generally they buy a haul of the frame they have been playing with.

    i really do try and stress this to people. It doesn't matter honestly if I play with a pro one, a prestige, a radical, a k90, a blade, pure drive, volkl, yonex etc. No matter what I pick up after a few hours with it I will play nearly the same no matter what. I honestly feel it is the same for everyone in that regard. If you are a 3.0, you are a 3.0 no matter what frame you are using... it's just how it is. spend more time training and less time worrying about the gear and that's how you will get to a 3.5
     
  24. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    Why do people always assume if you are into details about racquets, that you aren't also training and practicing and taking lessons and working on your game? Personally I never "worry" about my gear beacause I use what's appropriate for myself and I know what I like. I know that it's all on me, when my gear is the right "fit". If you have any doubts about your equipment going into a match, that is not good. You need to have confidence in your tools and focus on your fottwork and movement. Of course a frame won't take you from 3.0-3.5...but the wrong "fit" in a frame could take you from 3.5-3.0 or impede your progress.

    Besides.......weren't we talking about Donnay? Also, isn't this a "tennis equipment" forum? This place is for discussiong equipment and "obsessing over minimal things" :). If everyone was just playing and not thinking about their gear, there would be no posts here, right? If people are not into discussing gear, then maybe they should hang out in the "tips/instruction" forum.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2013
  25. Bdarb

    Bdarb Hall of Fame

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    I think his point is that too much time and focus is placed on equipment, and can distract one from their own game. It's easy to say I'm feeling fatigued I need a lighter racquet instead of I'm feeling fatigued I need to hit the gym.

    He's clearly in tune with racquet specs and how they effect people's game. I for one don't tend to disregard free advice from professional players, especially when it mirrors my own beliefs ha.

    I agree its fun to talk about equipment but you lose me at the whole my racquets weigh 5 grams apart wahhh bit. My favorite is people's signatures

    "Head pt57a balance +7 352.6 grams x6" you guys must spend some serious time at the tool bench with these sticks.. time kal-el presumably thinks could be spent on the court or training.
     
  26. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    Thats my point exactly. How does he know these people aren't training? If I can play tennis, I am sure to be found on the courts. But there's plenty of time that you just can't play or train. That's what the forum is for :)
    Also, how does anyone know if someone else is focusing "too much" on equipment? There is a time and place for everything. When I am on the court, I am focused on my strategy to beat my opponent and in doing what I need to do to win. The specs of my racquet are the furthest thing from my mind at that point. Kal-el is making these broad generalizations about rec players that just don't apply to everyone. Honestly, most rec players I know don't practice and don't know anything about their equipment. They "just go out and play" once or twice a week. Do they get better? No. Personally I have went from 3.0 to 4.0 in around 4 years, so I must be doing something right. I am constantly working on my game...taking lessons, watching video, doing drills, working on my ball machine, etc. Forgive me if I also like to talk racquets :shock:
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2013
  27. kaiser

    kaiser Semi-Pro

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    Sure Jack, you're entitled to do whatever you like, as long as you don't mind looking a bit like a dag even on these boards... :)
     
  28. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    Nope, don't mind one bit. :)

    You can't worry about pleasing everyone. If you put yourself out there, you are subject to criticism. Just like when someone posts a video of themselves playing, there will be lots of mean and hurtful insults, but there will be about 10% very useful pointers that can help. You just focus on that 10%. Most people can't handle the criticism, so they play it safe and keep quiet.
     
  29. MikeHitsHard93

    MikeHitsHard93 Hall of Fame

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    Hahaha this is so true. When I posted my vid (which I admit was horrendous) people absolutely tore me apart because I looked more like a 3.0 than a high 3.5 that I claim to be. What they didn't notice is that we weren't playing a match and I didn't have many balls to get back since my partner goes for broke every time lol.

    I also know that I annoy quite a few people on these boards but I don't care because it keeps me entertained and well informed by asking questions! :)
     
  30. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    if those very same people that tore you apart in your vid took one of themselves and watched it, they would be amazed at how bad they look on video compared to how they "think" they look in their head.
     
  31. Kal-El 34

    Kal-El 34 Hall of Fame

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    this is also a very true point.

    im not saying i don't tinker with my equipment. i know where my sweet spot on frames is and I am fortunate enough to have a guy that makes my rackets to specs for me when I get them - which is something I feel for people that don't get that.

    im more guilty of playing millions of different strings than anything. im not trying to come off as mean or inconsiderate in this forum either. like others, i say what i feel. it is a forum to discuss rackets and this and that, but the amount of chatter about what in my opinion are insignificant differences in rackets specs is what drives me to push people more into on court training and time in the gym rather than spending so much time with their racket
     
  32. Kal-El 34

    Kal-El 34 Hall of Fame

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    burn. you win this round :)
     
  33. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    I am not trying to "win" anything. But I do totally get your point about playing vs equipment and don't disagree with any of that. I just want people to see that it's possible to do both. Tennis is my passion, so I obsess about EVERYTHING TENNIS.....shoes, racquets, strings, stringing, balls, etc. AAAAANNNND....technique, practice, improving, training, etc.

    Anyway...what the hell were we talking about :)
     
  34. MikeHitsHard93

    MikeHitsHard93 Hall of Fame

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    Right. Every time I go to my cardio and drills classes, I'm likely one of the best on the court so I know I'm better than a 3.0 lol. They require that you be at least a 2.5 in their own rating system.

    There's so many people here that think they're hot ****. I like to be modest and I know I'm not a 4.5, but I also know that I'm better than what I portray myself to be on here. People are critical these days!
     
  35. Bdarb

    Bdarb Hall of Fame

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    Obviously I enjoy discussing racquets or I wouldn't be here. Point stands, practice makes someone better, not equipment. A sentiment I agree with. That's good your improving alot, you must be practicing alot:)
     
  36. Egoista

    Egoista Professional

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    donnay is doing a great job here. If some wilson or xxx fanboys have their .....in a twist so be it...but donnay are here to stay....their QC compares favorably to other companies out there the more "established " ones
     
  37. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    What are u basing that statement on?
     
  38. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    Do I dare taking on Superman? :)......I will but I will tread lightly.

    Kalel.....while technique and learning is the most important aspect, I'm not going to disagree with that.....but I can tell you that two equipment changes I have made improved my game TREMENDOUSLY .....I cannot believe it.

    1- I made a realization on strings.,,..one that has received a lot of bias. But I have actually given up on Poly......I have come to the realization that they are the best strings but only for one match......after that they are horrible and unreliable. Your strokes become crap . This is why the pros would never play more than a match with them.

    I have switched to Kevlar in the mains and natural gut in the crosses. The Kevlar is strung 10 pounds lower than the gut. This has changed my game exponentially.

    With poly I always wondered why I played great one match and horrible the next. The reson was because the poly was complete crap after just one match.
    The Kevlar gut on the other hand lasts and lasts amd lasts and the response is consistent .

    2- I had a custom grip made and it has also changed my strokes exponentially . I can now do things that no amount of lessons ever could teach me.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2013
  39. comeback

    comeback Professional

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    Interesting DK, did you try it in any of your Vortexs? What brand Kevlar/Gut and gauge did you use?
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2013
  40. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    Not cool to talk about Vortex here bro. But I love ya ! :)
     
  41. Kal-El 34

    Kal-El 34 Hall of Fame

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    Come on batman. NO man not taking me on at all. I do think the equipment helps obviously. Ever seen my review thread? I obviously love rackets haha. I'm a string junkie and would argue the right string set up and tension are arguably more important that the frame... but then is the frame right for the string set up and tension? It's a real chicken/egg situation haha. All good points there. What did you do with your grip? ?
     
  42. bowchikawow

    bowchikawow Rookie

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    Anybody know if it's still possible to get the Donnay X-Black 94?
     
  43. ChicagoJack

    ChicagoJack Hall of Fame

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    The X-series are out of production for several years. 94s are more rare than 99s. Among all the models... the Blues, Silvers, Plats and Dark Reds seem to be the most common you'll find on fleabay, tw classifieds or stringforum. Not impossible to get 94 blacks, but you might have to keep checking your sources regularly.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2013
  44. corners

    corners Legend

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    Any further word on the kevlar/graphite braid, Kal-El?

    Many have noted the similarity in shape/mold between the custom sticks Fed has been trying out and the Pro One. I would think he would stick with the braided Kevlar/Graphite layup that he's used his whole career. But Wilson will probably bone it and release some cheap imitation rather than the real thing. Seems there would be opportunity here for Donnay. Lots of players that grew up using graphite/Kevlar are still enamored with that layup and its unique feel but are needing bigger-headed, more potent frames as they age. A Graphite/Kevlar braided Pro One in 16x19 would get me interested in Donnay again, that's for sure.
     
  45. mhkeuns

    mhkeuns Professional

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    Does anyone play with the Formula 100? Or, is it so far from the Donnay's regular sticks that the Donnay racquet users don't consider it a Donnay? The reason I ask is though I find it a very nice, modern feeling racquet that actually feels better to me than the Babolat Pure Drive, I rarely hear people talking about it. It seems that it's always the X-Dual Plats, Pro 1's or the older X series.
     
  46. Timbo's hopeless slice

    Timbo's hopeless slice Hall of Fame

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    It's my primary stick. Arm friendly Pure Drive with better feel..

    Donnay purists seem to forget the old Formula was a part of the line for years back in the day...
     
  47. mhkeuns

    mhkeuns Professional

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    Yeah. I sold my Pure Drive after the first hit with the Formula 100. I have.tender shoulders, and the Formula is definitely comfortably stiff. Not a spin monster like the APD, but it surely hits hard and perpetrating shots. Much more maneuverable than the Pure Drive.
     
  48. atatu

    atatu Hall of Fame

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    Hate to say it, but I think I'm going to give up on the P1, the availability issues have me kind of fed up. The problem is I can't seem to find anything comparable, has anyone tried the new Head Speed Pro limited ? Are they comparable at all ?
     
  49. ChicagoJack

    ChicagoJack Hall of Fame

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    I completely agree. IMO, the F100 compares favorably to the Babolat PD in terms of power and comfort. Both are very easy to swing and very stable even in stock form. My arm did not agree with the Pure Drive, and that prompted my search for a more comfortable frame. It's not widely thought of as a power stick, but the higher swingweight of the Pro One puts it closer to the Pure Drive Roddick. The P1 has got sneaky power. No flashy paint job, no big rep. Just kind of a sleeper in that regard, but it's got plenty of pop for sure.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2014
  50. mhkeuns

    mhkeuns Professional

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    I'm not sure if it can be compared, but the Pacific X Force Pro is also a sweet stick that has nice feel and pop. It's also very comfortable.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2014

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