No more Pacific natural gut

Discussion in 'Strings' started by Steve Huff, Mar 7, 2013.

  1. Steve Huff

    Steve Huff Legend

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    Strung up my ki 5 the other day with Pacific Tough Gut 16 at 62#. Went to put it in my bag today and the gut was broke near one of the throat piece grommet holes. This isn't the 1st Pacific Natural Gut to break before being played with either. I've never had this problem with Klip Natural gut. And this was ther "Tough" gut. I cut it out and strung it up with some Volkl V-Icon. The Volkl V-Icon has a "resin" feeling outer coating, so the crosses don't pull quite as smoothly. Babolat and Wilson charge too much for their guts, so I don't get theirs. And for now, no more Pacific Gut.
     
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  2. scotus

    scotus Legend

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    I have had a few sets of Pacific Tough Gut and Klip Legend that either had gauge inconsistencies or snapped prematurely.

    So far, I find that Babolat has the best quality control, although I don't care for the BT7.
     
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  3. tennisinoc

    tennisinoc Semi-Pro

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    That is a crazy coincidence. I pulled out my Ki5 out of the bag the other day that was strung up with Pacific Classic 17 and it was also broken in the same place at the throat grommet when just sitting in my bag. This never happens with VS.
    Hmmmm.
     
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  4. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    ... it can't be that bad, right?

    If I can put up with the stuff from Mamba, then Pacific/Klip can't be that bad...
     
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  5. Wes_Loves_Dunlop

    Wes_Loves_Dunlop Professional

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    I've used pacific classsic 17g multiple times, and I've never had it snap or break in the racket prematurely.

    Are you sure it's the stirng's fault and not your own?
     
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  6. SoCal10s

    SoCal10s Hall of Fame

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    you guys may need to use a leather bumper at those breaking points ...
     
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  7. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

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    I've never had any strings except maybe kevlar last as long as my Pacific ToughGut.
     
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  8. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    Steve - contact Pacific, I believe they will replace it (unlike babolat BTW)....

    I've never had a set of Pacific or Klip break in the bag either. I have, however, seen this with the indian guts. Some years ago, TW sent me a set of Global Gut to try. I strung it up like I do every other gut, and was going to play the next day. Imagine my surprise when I opened the bag and it was snapped, right in the sweet spot too.
     
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  9. themitchmann

    themitchmann Hall of Fame

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    I had an issue with Classic Gut breaking on customers' racquets. I switched to Prince Gut and haven't had a problem (except the price).
     
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  10. Lambsscroll

    Lambsscroll Professional

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    You can start using power pads to lesson the sharp angle. Or replace the grommets. As time goes on the grommet starts developing a deep groove and this can pinch the string.
     
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  11. TennisCJC

    TennisCJC Legend

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    Babolat Tonic+ Ballfeel 16G gut is the best mid priced gut in my view. But, I have used Pacific Classic 16G in hybrid with poly cross without any problems with durability. I like these 2 guts because they are mid-priced and hi-quality. I play around 4.0+ all court tennis with moderate+ spin on all shots and get about 20 hours before the gut (mains) frays and notches big time. Sometime I continue a few more hours until it breaks or I cut it if it looks really bad.
     
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  12. tennisinoc

    tennisinoc Semi-Pro

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    My grommets are fairly new. I have always strung myself and use VS with no premature breakage. This is my first set of Pacific Classic.
    I have had other "econo" guts break in the bag before and Pacific is unfortunately now added to that list :(
    Maybe I will contact Pacific or TW to see if they do replacements.
     
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  13. Steve Huff

    Steve Huff Legend

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    I've never had a problem with Klip guts. VS, Wilson and Prince gut have priced themselves out of my market--the people I string for. I never tried the Performaxx gut as it didn't stay around long. The only problem with Klip is that their deliveries are inconsistent. TW may have them one week, then not get them for 4 weeks. As for sending it back to Pacific, I already gut it out. I'm not going to the trouble of pulling it out without cutting it. Too much time and probably not to good on the frame. Personally, I love the way Tough Gut played, but I can't be putting it in other people's rackets if it doesn't last.
     
    #13
  14. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    What is Mamba NG like?
     
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  15. jim e

    jim e Hall of Fame

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    I have had an issue with Pacifics Orange bull, and thats the most expensive of the bunch. One set did not have the coating on it and it frayed just uncoiling it before I even started threading the mains.
    The Pacific Prime seems to be of decent quality, although I have only strung a dozen or so of the Pacific Prime, but so far so good.I string more Wilson Nat Gut now more than any other nat. gut and no issues at all!
     
    #15
  16. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    I haven't played with name brand gut, so I don't know if my opinion matters, BUT!

    Mamba plays really soft, extremely comfortable, and for the price, I can't really complain.
     
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  17. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    Read your thread, thanks.
     
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  18. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    You're welcome, that thing is still around? :)
     
    #18
  19. polytheist

    polytheist Rookie

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    Maybe the hate on Tough Gut will bring the price down...
     
    #19
  20. Steve Huff

    Steve Huff Legend

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    I still wouldn't string it for others until they make it where it's less likely to break.
     
    #20
  21. diredesire

    diredesire Super Moderator

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    Steve, did you buy at TW? Maybe they'll work with you on a replacement set? Can't hurt to ask, I assume they like to keep long time customers happy :) I don't think I've strung much Pacific stuff for personal use... never had a problem with their QC
     
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  22. goose guy

    goose guy New User

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    Bought a new Volkl c10 pro from TW on Black Friday 2012. Had them string it up with a hybrid of ToughGut and some poly. Used less than 4 hours before the gut snapped in my bag. Wish I had contacted TW then.
     
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  23. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    I think Steve probably knows how to string a racquet or two.
     
    #23
  24. McLovin

    McLovin Hall of Fame

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    Yeah, I was thinking the same thing.

    Not sure what's happening w/ the Pacific. I've been using Classic in 17g ever since Bow Brand stopped making gut, and have never had a set snap in my bag. I also put the 16L in many people's frames I string for and cannot think of a single instance where it snapped prematurely.

    All these experiences but one have been a guy/poly or kevlar/gut mix. One guy uses full gut and it lasts him 10-12 months (granted, he is in his mid 70s, but he does play 1-2 times a week).

    I will say that I haven't ordered any in the last 3 months as I've been playing around with other guts (KLIP Legend, Legend Tour, BB Hero), so maybe its a bad batch?
     
    #24
  25. Steve Huff

    Steve Huff Legend

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    If this were the 1st time, I'd buy the "bad batch" theory, but it wasn't. The racket was sitting in a rack next to other rackets, not even in the bag. Strung it on Mon, it broke on Thursday, never having been played with. Hadn't even been handled, except to place in the rack. I think the Pacific gut must be really weak at turns. Maybe their coating is too stiff relative to the string, and it pinches it when it goes around corners.
     
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  26. lynnbart

    lynnbart Rookie

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    I'm really not liking these stories. I just strung up my first ever set of gut. Pacific Classic crossed with WC Black5edge.

    I hope I haven't wasted a perfectly good set of WC string.
     
    #26
  27. ricardo

    ricardo Professional

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    Could it be because of the tension?

    Could it be because of the tension?

    So far I have strung 10x using PClassic NG 16L using a cheap stringer (Gamma X2, composite floating clamps) and I haven't had any problems yet.

    I usually string NG Mains between 45-52 lbs (crosses @2lbs less).
    It last me months (3-4 mos). I average about 5 crosses to 1 main NG.

    I read in this forums that some NG can only take so much tension.
    Some 50lbs, some 60lbs.
    I read that Babolat VS can take up to 65lbs tension.

    It would be very helpful if you specify the tension you are using if you are having breakage problems.
     
    #27
  28. diredesire

    diredesire Super Moderator

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    It also depends on the gauge, and it's unrealistic to expect everyone to string gut at a low tension. The 50-60 lbs recommendation is more realistic for the cheap guts you find on 'Bay. Gut is powerful, and a recommendation of sub-55 lbs is pretty unrealistic for most players/frames. Unless we're talking about sub 90 si head-sizes, that's a pretty low tension for the power, all things considered. High quality natural guts like most being discussed in this thread should easily hit 60 with absolutely no problems. Quite frankly, while power pads, etc. are nice to have, they shouldn't be required for most modern frame design(s). I think it is reasonable to have a 'field report' like this as a heads up to stringers. Steve's been around the block (a few times, by now), I wouldn't assume stringer error here.

    Edit: I mean, Sampras was playing at >70 lbs tension on an 85si headsize using 17L gut! This is obviously outside of the normal range you'd want to string gut, but it should indicate the relative strength of properly manufactured (and inspected) gut. Assuming no weak points from natural causes (fatty sections, etc), gut should hold up pretty well, especially anything in the 16g range.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2013
    #28
  29. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    Despite Pete being cheap, he was not trying to get 3-4 mos from his gut.
     
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  30. Brian11785

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    Zing. The cost of stringing more often is offset by his not tipping the stringer.
     
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  31. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    No wonder he is using full sets of Kevlar
     
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  32. jim e

    jim e Hall of Fame

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    The OP Steve did not even get to hit with it.
    Most of my nat. gut customers have their racquets strung from low to upper 60lb. range.I have strung up to 70 lbs with VS and Wilson 16g. with no early snapping like Steve has experienced.I would expect product problem with this issue.
    Nice to know someone reporting this issue so others can be made aware of potential issues with a product, myself included since I string a decent amount of nat. gut.
    I would not like to have a customer return a racquet with nat. gut snapped before they even hit with it. Thats just not good!
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2013
    #32
  33. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    Only strung a handful of Pacific NG, np.
     
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  34. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    I wonder.

    I've been using Pac natty for nearly 2 years and never had a problem with breakage. Mind you, I've never strung it higher than 52.

    I think there is definitely a link between tension and durability. I'm currently stringing my mains at 48 and 50, with crosses always 4# lower. And I typically get around 70 hrs out of them.

    It's certainly possible that at lower tensions the risk of breakage might be reduced.
     
    #34
  35. diredesire

    diredesire Super Moderator

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    Nor did I imply or say he was. I was pointing out that gut can handle and be strung at high tensions even at thin gauges. This should indicate a product issue barring stringer error. Steve's been around longer than I have, so I'm pretty sure he's gotten a few sets of gut through his stringing machine, so this indicates product issues to me.

    Agree, definite link, but 62# ain't an unreasonable tension.
     
    #35
  36. tennisinoc

    tennisinoc Semi-Pro

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    For me personally I have strung VS at 62lbs with no premature breakage problems EVER!

    I am now using a racket that I can string Gut at 52 lbs. This is the tension I strung the Pacific gut at when it prematurely snapped in my bag.

    On another note, I found a 1/2 set of Mamba Premium Gut that I had put aside because the first 1/2 set broke on me when stringing up a while ago.
    So for fun I tried again @ 52 lbs. And guess what? On the 4th main with careful tension being applied, SNAP!!!!!! Like a piece of thread. NEVER again will I invest in "econo guts" I am just throwing my $$ away.

    I guess we get what we pay for. It's just a shame that the name brand gut market raised their prices. I was very content with Tonic + when it was $22 a set a few years back. The $10 increase was quite a crazy (150%) mark up. I am in the Poly world now but would like to return to the Gut world when prices and quality become more reasonable again.
     
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  37. McLovin

    McLovin Hall of Fame

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    My machine has a Wise tensioner that I bought back in September.

    I string my 17g Classic mains @ 54lbs (X Force Pro, 16x20). My friend's racquet (Microgel Radical, 18x20) is 56lb kevlar mains, 60lb 17g Classic crosses. Another person I string for is 56lb 16L Classic mains (YOUTEK Extreme OS, 16x19). I have never had a set of Classic snap prematurely.

    In fact, the only gut I've had snap was Titan when I put it in the mains. It was fine in the crosses.

    Not saying it isn't happening to others, just saying I haven't seen it in over 4 years.
     
    #37
  38. Lambsscroll

    Lambsscroll Professional

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    Wine and cows. Can it be seasonal? Years and years of high praise for Pacific Classic natural gut. Did Steve run into some sick cows?
     
    #38
  39. Steve Huff

    Steve Huff Legend

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    I was stringing at 62# on an electronic machine. Now, I will admit that my machine does not have a Diablo to wrap the string around, which may be my next investment. But, I haven't had the same problems with Klip or Volkl gut (or VS). The only other gut that I've had breakage problems with was Bow Brand, and I think others were having problems with it too. I've never tried any of the really cheap gut, except for a free set of Global Gut that was sent to me. Half (mains) broke while stringing, and the other half broke while warming up the 1st time out. And thanks for the warning on the Mamba Premium gut. You saved me from ordering a set.
     
    #39
  40. UCSF2012

    UCSF2012 Hall of Fame

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    My Tough Gut hasn't ever popped. EVER. You guys may have gotten some bad sets, but I got those magical sets that's barely notched after a year.
     
    #40
  41. Steve Huff

    Steve Huff Legend

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    So, it was you that took all the good stuff. That explains it.
     
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  42. McLovin

    McLovin Hall of Fame

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    Well, I'll find out in a few days if he did. I just ordered two sets of Tough Gut 17g for a customer. I last strung his frames in 2011 with the copper Tough Gut (three KSix Ones). Granted, he's been sidelined with a bunch of injuries for the last year, but that stuff has stood the test of time.

    If this pops early, you can be certain I'll be contacting Pacific.
     
    #42
  43. Fintft

    Fintft Hall of Fame

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    Well I had one VS Team 17 snap in my bag, in my house (the second day after playing and moving them in the bag at around +6 C), close to the head of the racket, where a notch was made, on my BLX 6.1 95 Amplifeel at 57/55 LBs.

    I also had 2 more snap in the same place, but those were in my trunk (at around -6C), in the thermal protection compartment of my Wilson tennis bag.

    Bottom line I had 3 out of 5 sets snapping that way and then I've decided to keep my bag in a locker at a club and never had this issue again...
    Mind you, I've also mentioned this to my stringer, twice, so he probably finally got the message and did something different with those notches?
     
    #43
  44. lynnbart

    lynnbart Rookie

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    Does it take Pacific some time to break in ? I fed some balls yesterday and wasn't too impressed. Hopefully it will break in some.

    I want to see what the deal is with gut/poly hybrids.
     
    #44
  45. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    Sounds like you may have strung it a bit too tightly. Gut does tend to "break in" though.
     
    #45
  46. lynnbart

    lynnbart Rookie

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    Gut @ 58lbs crossed with a poly @54lbs.

    I'm really interested in how it plays. We've had big winds here for 2 days. Hopefully back on the court the next few days.
     
    #46
  47. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    I can dig it, I was going to debut my 99S with Pacific 16L in the mains at 55 and Genesis Black Magic 17 in the crosses at 53 this afternoon and we were canceled due to high winds...
     
    #47
  48. McLovin

    McLovin Hall of Fame

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    I hate to throw numbers around as it really depends on whether the machine is calibrated, racquet head size, string pattern, gauge, as well as the person doing the stringing, but 58lbs might be a little tight.

    I do 54lb mains in my X Force Pro (17g, 16x20, 98 sq in), and it does take a game or two to 'break in'. I rarely go over 56lbs in the mains when stringing gut for customers.
     
    #48
  49. McLovin

    McLovin Hall of Fame

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    And I might add that before I got my Wise tensioner, I used a drop-weight machine. I used to do 58lb mains, 56lb crosses with the drop-weight, and RacquetTune equated that to 54lb mains, 52 lb crosses in the new machine.
     
    #49
  50. lynnbart

    lynnbart Rookie

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    Oops. I should have mentioned,,,Babolat PDR strung with a Gamma Progession II FC.

    I usually do our hybrids with a poly @ 54 and PSGO @ 58. I can play with it lower, but my son prefers it somewhat stiffer.
     
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