no trophy please, Federer says

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by dh003i, Jun 26, 2006.

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Do you agree with Federer, that trophies should only be for winning tournaments?

  1. Yes, I agree. Trophies should only be for winning tournaments.

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  2. No, I disagree. They can make up new trophies for various records, to create hype.

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  1. dh003i

    dh003i Legend

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    The guy is a real class act. Here's an article in which he says he shouldn't be given a trophy is he breaks Borg's grass-court streak, by defeating Gasquet (match in progress). It's good that the #1 player in the world oppose silly gimmicks that the ATP is using.

    What do you think about this position (no trophy for streaks, or for anything other than winning tournaments)? Agree or disagree?
     
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  2. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    He is a little pissed off with Nadal.
     
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  3. LowProfile

    LowProfile Professional

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    Nadal's trophy looked pretty damn weird. The composition of a clay court.

    I'm sure Federer doesn't want a trophy showing the composition of a grass court because it'd just be some grass fuzz and a bunch of mud. He'd much rather have that fourth Wimbledon trophy.
     
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  4. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Why can't he have both, like Nadal?
     
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  5. dh003i

    dh003i Legend

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    Federer criticizes the ATP for doing something that's never been done before -- and I've never heard of any sport awarding a trophy for a streak or some other kind of record -- and somehow, it's because he's mad with Nadal?

    This isn't some kind of knock on Nadal. Nadal didn't make the decision to award the trophy, and didn't know it was being considered before he was awarded it. Given that, the best thing he can do is accept it graciously.

    I don't understand the logic, either. Federer is "mad with Nadal" about a trophy for consecutive wins on clay, so therefore he doesn't want one given to him for consecutive wins on grass? No, that makes no sense.

    Sureshs, as for why he can't have both, like Nadal, no-one's saying he "can't". There isn't a physical law against it. It is just silly, and not in accord with the game's history. Then, are they going to award one to whoever breaks Federer's grass-court streak? What if the streak is broken numerous times? And not only that, but I think for the other player (Gasquet, who Federer would beat, if he breaks Borg's record) it's disrespectful; not to mention for the other players on the tournament: the guy hasn't won the thing, but he already has a trophy?

    I mean, let's hypothetically say, Federer wins this Wimbledon, and then 2 more. That would give him 6 consecutive Wimbledon's, beating Borg's streak of 5 in a row. So, would he be awarded the Wimbledon trophy, and then some trophy with 6 little Wimbledon trophies on top of it? And if he wins 7 in a row, does he get another for breaking his own record?

    It just seems really absurd to me. Again, no knock on Nadal: this is a knock on whoever decided to give a trophy for a streak, I believe the FO authorities. I doubt we'll have to worry about it at Wimbledon, since they're exceptionally traditional.
     
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  6. Free_Martha

    Free_Martha Guest

    Bingo.
     
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  7. Rataplan

    Rataplan Semi-Pro

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    I don't quite understand why he makes a point of this.

    Didn't he get a trophy himself at the end of last year during a tournament for ending the year as number one? Isn't that some sort of streak also?
    He got that one before a match (so, it wasn't at the end of the tournament and it had nothing to do with winning the tournament either) during a little ceremony.

    What am I missing here? What's the difference?
     
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  8. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    Tennis must really be hurting. IMO, Federer hasn't equaled Borg's record since Borg's record came only at Wimbledon. Federer's streak includes events lesser in status and competition than Wimbledon. It's like the ATP is trying to invent reasons folks should watch tennis.

    Should Federer beat Borg's actual record of 41 straight Wimbledon victories, he'll get a trophy, his 6th consecutive Wimbledon trophy. Until then, I don't think anyone really cares, including Roger Federer.
     
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  9. BiGGieStuFF

    BiGGieStuFF Hall of Fame

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    So it's more beneficial for you to break a record than to create it? No trophy please. The one who made the record initially didn't get a ceremony and trophy, so why should the one who broke it get one?
     
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  10. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Yes in the year-end tournament, they give one for the No. 1 and later another for the winner. He has also got numerous little awards all over the place like best sportsman in Europe etc.

    The difference here is he is just coming off a loss to Nadal and unable to win all 4 slams like the guy who is retiring soon.

    Those ceremonies are crowd pleasers. They got a chance to see Vilas and there was this little rivalry between Nadal and Vilas with Vilas claiming his streak was longer etc. Lots of publicity and good for tennis.

    Interestingly, he also very cleverly deflected the equal pay question by an irrelevant remark that the money does not make a difference. This guy is no Arthur Ashe but a business-product whose bold ideas are limited to such things as criticizing Hawk-Eye - i.e., inconsequential matters.
     
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  11. DMich

    DMich New User

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    His point is, why are they handing out trophies for streaks now. Its dumb. Put it in the record books and move on. This trophy wont mean anything if he doesnt win Wimbledon.
     
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  12. malakas

    malakas Banned

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    I believe that Fed is right.He really grew in my eyes with this statement he made.:)
     
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  13. Rhino

    Rhino Legend

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    to some people around here, almost everything Roger does is a reflection of how pissed he is with Nadal.
    He doesn't think trophies should be given after first round wins; good call.
    roger is the king of streaks so if he was really pissed with Nadal he'd be all for streak trophies - especially this one which would be like a revenge streak.
    These kind of comments just show that you are a little pissed off with Federer for overshadowing your spanish dream boy.
     
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  14. Rataplan

    Rataplan Semi-Pro

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    I get that point, DMich, but what is the difference with getting an award for ending the year as number one, which is also some kind of streak?

    If he's really only against handing out trophies before the end of a tournament, fair enough but why did he accept that number one trophy if it's only about that?

    If they were handing out trophies for the best outfit, most sexy player, best ass,... I would agree but not this time. It's not like they're handing out these sort of trophies every other week or so.
     
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  15. Return_Ace

    Return_Ace Professional

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    thanks for the f***ing spoiler bro..
     
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  16. malakas

    malakas Banned

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    lol!Those are handed by us!!:mrgreen:
     
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  17. dh003i

    dh003i Legend

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    some here seem to miss a subtle point I made: if the trophy has already been awarded to you, or plans are already made, it wouldn't be appropriate to publicly renounce it. As someone else said of Nadal, "What was he supposed to do, refuse the trophy?" Likewise for Federer an the Nr1 trophy.

    Neither knew that they were going to be rewarded such, or had any idea before-hand that such was being contemplated. Once they're presenting it to you, it would be ungentlemanly to refuse it.

    What Federer is doing here is taking a pre-emptive stand against this kind of stuff in the future; not rejecting a trophy that's already been prepared and presented publicly.

    Also, the argument that he's doing this out of spite is ridiculous, given that he's asking not to be given a trophy for some inconsequential streak.

    Regarding women's pay, Federer has business obligations to protect (like Michael Jordan). My personal opinion: women should get paid in accord with how much money they bring in. If women bring in as much money as men, they should get paid as much; if they bring in half as much, they should get paid half as much. Or maybe you decide based on the length of the required matches, etc. Whichever way you slice it, women's tennis is inferior to men's tennis, hence less pay is merited.

    PS: and I'll also say, Federer shouldn't have gotten any official ATP trophies aside from one's for winning the tournaments. As for awards from other organizations, that's irrelevant. The Sports Illustrated or whoever can decide to give awards for whatever they want; it isn't the responsibility of the tennis authorities.
     
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  18. Rhino

    Rhino Legend

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    you've got to be kidding me, you actually didn't know??
    This spoiler thing is a bit of a joke, I would say 99% of people who are so into tennis that they actually post on tennis chat boards, already know scorelines by the world number one about to break a Borg streak, that are already over 5 hours old.
    Obviously Return_Ace you are the 1% so too bad, but hey, it's best of 5 sets, the match is far from over....
     
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  19. Shabazza

    Shabazza Legend

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    Ditto!
     
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  20. dh003i

    dh003i Legend

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    My apologies. I don't know what I was thinking. I'm apologize for spoiling the outcome of the 1st set.
     
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  21. Return_Ace

    Return_Ace Professional

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    /accepted, i was thinking of coming home from school, /watch wimby... rain... /go on tw.... argh, result :(

    don't woryr about it though, just be more careful
     
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  22. Shabazza

    Shabazza Legend

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    you didn't miss much anyway....****ty day
     
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  23. bluescreen

    bluescreen Hall of Fame

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    that was a class statement by mr. federer. it proves he's not playing the game just for fame. he wants the trophies to really mean something.
     
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  24. Oricus

    Oricus Rookie

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    There is a difference in finishing #1 and getting a trophy and then breaking some long streak. The difference is the trophy is given out every year to whatever player finishes #1. I believe that is a merited trophy giving credit to a player who finished the year at #1
     
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  25. Rataplan

    Rataplan Semi-Pro

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    Ending the year as number one is some sort of streak as well.

    Breaking a record that survived almost 30 years is quite meaningful as well to me but I accept that not everybody agrees with me.


    okay. I accept that last bit.
    However, I still don't understand why it's so wrong, though. It's not a random trophy either. It's directly related to a sports performance.

    Besides, in Roland Garros, Roger Federer has been given the "prix orange" in the middle of the tournament (he also got that in 2005). There was a little ceremony for it, he got an award for it, pictures were taken,...
    To me, these sort of awards in the middle of a tournament are much more random.
    I agree that it's a matter of accepting it when it's presented to you but I don't see why a record that survived for several decades (either the grass court one or the clay court one) is less important than these ones. If he doesn't like these sort of things in the middle of the tournament, he could have said so after receiving it last year, right?
    [​IMG]

    I'm not being difficult here (not on purpose anyway) but I just don't see what the fuss is really.
     
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  26. dh003i

    dh003i Legend

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    Rata,

    Well, I'm not sure what the "prix orange" was for; never-the-less, if granted by the ATP, it shouldn't have been, and certainly not in the middle of the tournament. On the other hand, I don't see how Fed could refuse to accept the award in good gentlemanliness.
     
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  27. Moose Malloy

    Moose Malloy Legend

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    Except no one was even aware of the previous streak until the atp started publicizing it. Even Vilas wasn't aware that he owned this streak. That shows you how important it is.

    Also, did you see how empty the stands were when nadal got his clay streak trophy? apparently the fans didn't really care much for this monumental achievement.

    The French press names the most(orange) & least(yellow) cooperative players yearly. I wasn't aware they actually gave awards to the player. Rios won the least cooperative player award every year he played, it would have been funny had they presented him with an award.
     
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  28. dh003i

    dh003i Legend

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    Who's the hot chick in between Federer and Monfils?
     
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  29. Rataplan

    Rataplan Semi-Pro

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    The horrible weather conditions at the time had a lot to do with that.

    So, many people weren't aware of it (maybe because not a lot of people have been close in recent years...the last one was T. Muster, right?) but what's wrong with drawing the attention to special achievements to try to create a buzz for the sport?
    Like I said before, if the ATP decides to give awards for random things like best outfit, most sexy player, best ass,...I'd understand the fuss but they try to attract attention to the sport by putting special achievements in the spotlights.
     
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  30. Moose Malloy

    Moose Malloy Legend

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    Yeah I bet horrible conditions would cause fans to give up on watching someone pass Hank Aaron an the alltime home run list. Or pass Sampras on the GS list.

    It was a meaningless record that the atp created to drum up interest. Had no one mentioned it, no one would even know that it existed. Did you know about it before?

    Golovin
     
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  31. Rataplan

    Rataplan Semi-Pro

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    Tatiana Golovin
     
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  32. skip1969

    skip1969 Legend

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    i know this subject was brought up during roland garros, but while i don't think it's a big deal, i agree with federer. right now, the atp is in danger of over-gimmicking the game with their little trophies and bouncing balls on video screens, players waving and bowing and blowning kisses to the stands after every friggin match won, etc. at a certain point, there is a danger of trivializing everything about the game.

    in my view, breaking a record of any sort IS your trophy. that's all the accolade you need. i mean, why just the clay court streak and the grass court streak? hell, the atp can give out a trophy for hard courts, for indoors, for courts painted blue . . . it's asinine.
     
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  33. Rataplan

    Rataplan Semi-Pro

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    Maybe so but what's wrong with trying to drum up interest?

    By the way, the weather conditions were really bad: it was cold, the wind was blowing in all directions and you could see people in the stands covering their eyes because the clay and the sand got thrown in their faces. Many of them left their seats during the match.

    Listen, I don't agree that it's utterly meaningless but I'm not saying that it's an important event either. I agree with both Roger and Rafael who both said that winning tournaments is much more important than a streak but at the same time, I don't see the harm in drawing attention to this sort of thing either.

    The ATP draws attention to a streak that has been surviving for almost 3 decades so that's hardly trivializing things. It's not the sort of trophy they're handing out every week. It's coincidence that the clay court streak and the grass court streak are broken (or about to be broken) in the same period.

    In many sports, you get awards, medals for breaking a record but in tennis, people say that you should simply put it in record books and move on?Gosh...tennis is such a conservative sport.
     
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  34. dmastous

    dmastous Professional

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    I don't think attendance is down. They are still breaking records. I think the viewship in the US is down due to the lack us US talent. But If I were tennis I'd be marketing in China and India anyway, where there are over 2 billion eyballs. But money is more important so right now they market to the US and Europe.
    This is Marketing 101. Create reasons for people to watch. Create intrigue for an early round match. It's not a sign of tennis hurting, its business as usual for business. Get all the cash you can while you can. Leave no stone unturned in your pursuit of the cash.
     
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  35. emcee

    emcee Semi-Pro

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    Golovin is cute!

    Fed is right and anyone who thinks it's because he's mad at Nadal is a complete moron when it comes to Fed-Nadal relations. Really, this entire board seems filled with Federer and Nadal fanboys. It's really annoying.

    All great athletes have valued titles over individual records. While it's a bit different in tennis because it's an individual sport, a player's greatness is measured first and foremost by how many Slams (and other titles) they win. What people remember most about Sampras is his 14 GS's, not his streaks on certain surfaces or whatnot. People will remember Roddick's title(s) more in the long run than they will if he broke the ace record in a certain year or whatnot.

    Tennis is all about the Grand Slam titles, and the ATP should treat it as such.
     
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  36. Skppr05

    Skppr05 Semi-Pro

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    it feels like hes just trying to be as different from nadal as he can possibly be....if i were him I'd take the stupid trophy, that way Nadal wouldn't have a one-up on me in his trophy cabinet
     
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  37. dmastous

    dmastous Professional

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    Achemm!
    See above ^
     
    #37
  38. David L

    David L Hall of Fame

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    I don't think there is any fuss. He was probably just asked a question, and answered it with what he thought, simple. I think we are reading more into it because a reporter decided to pick those comments out of every thing else he said and write an article about it.
     
    #38
  39. jhhachamp

    jhhachamp Hall of Fame

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    Well, for one, the year end number 1 trophy means a lot, whereas these trophies handed out for streaks are completely and entirely meaningless.
     
    #39
  40. jhhachamp

    jhhachamp Hall of Fame

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    Good post, hopefully surehsh is reading.
     
    #40
  41. jhhachamp

    jhhachamp Hall of Fame

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    Most tennis historians would disagree with you. Finishing a year #1 is one of the greatest accomplishments one can achieve in tennis, outside of winning a grand slam, and not just some sort of streak. People dream of being #1, not breaking a clay court streak.
     
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  42. RiosTheGenius

    RiosTheGenius Hall of Fame

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    I agree with trophies for other reasons... not necessarely to create hype.. that's just a word I hate. .... hype is a word used by people who envy the success of others. no one is hyped, they all earn their success. ..... even Roddick :)
     
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  43. Tennis_Goodness

    Tennis_Goodness Semi-Pro

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    Roger is old school and is classy. He knows that the trophy is pointless and he wouldn't accept something like that.

    The real victory is at the end of the tournament and i'm glad we have someone as classy as Federer who would not want a meaningless trophy like that!
     
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  44. Matthew

    Matthew Professional

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    Maaaybe. :D

    I agree with Roger though - its stupid to give a trophy for something like that. I mean when does it end, we would have to start giving trophies for every thing. Its a distraction and interruptioin if you ask me.

    On another note, anyone else sick to death of hearing JB's comeback story? Not to say its not a great story, but anyone who has turned on a tv with tennis on knows about it now. Give it a rest.
     
    #44
  45. jukka1970

    jukka1970 Professional

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    can't figure out how to delete this post, so am putting in the necessary 10 words. Anyone know how to delete the post?
     
    #45
  46. SCARLETRUBIES

    SCARLETRUBIES Rookie

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    Federer has not YET surpassed Borg's streak.
    Federer has not been offered a trophy.
    So which trophy is he refusing or complaining about!
    IMO he was just pissed at Nadal going one up on him...if I may say this again...Nadal did not ask for trophy.....what was he supposed to do when it was offered to him.......
    Let Federer phone the ATP and moan.........dude is a moron!
     
    #46
  47. superman1

    superman1 Legend

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    Uh, they interviewed Federer, they asked him a question and he answered. It's not like he called someone up to complain.

    Before calling someone a moron, look at the facts and then look at the mirror to see the real moron. Then smile!
     
    #47
  48. Virtuous

    Virtuous Rookie

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    dble post...........................
     
    #48
  49. Virtuous

    Virtuous Rookie

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    wow, so every thing he says, doesn't say etc is some passive aggresive dig at nadal? lol::rolleyes: The man is allowed to have an opinion, stop factoring in irrelevant crap (h2h, nadal's trophies....well, any and every freaking thing that's nadal related) to create controversy where is none. It's sport, not a soap opera
     
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  50. SCARLETRUBIES

    SCARLETRUBIES Rookie

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    he won't get a trophy anyway.
    Borg's was 41 consecutive wins at sw19.
    what's Federer's...... 41 wins on grass is not yet a streak

    On another note however i feel such practises would endear tennis to the larger populace. soccer has its own world cup's golden boot, golden ball, best young player, etc.
    Marketing gimmick or not, it feels nice to have your achievements acknowledged....what do you lose...a few handshakes...a few smiles and its all over!
    another toic for us morons to debate on!
     
    #50

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