Noah Rubin

Discussion in 'College Tennis Talk' started by berdych31, Jul 11, 2014.

  1. berdych31

    berdych31 New User

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    Noah Rubin commits to Wake Forest. What do you think of his decision?
     
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  2. DaveKB

    DaveKB Rookie

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    It is very rare that a player of his quality picks a non traditional college tennis power. Ex UVA assistant Tony Bresky and now WF HC had a lot to do with building the UVA tennis program when Brian Boland was hired back in 2002. Rubin seemed to be down to UVA and WF, but at UVA he may have played as low as 3, 4 or maybe 5, especially if Colin Altamirano enrolls in January.

    UVA returns #2 Mitchell Frank, #3 Ryan Shane, #4 Mac Styslinger, #5 Thai Son Kwiatkowski and several others who may play in the top 6. UVA has added freshman Henrik Wiersholm a top 5 HS blue chip recruit and a 21 year old Swiss player (Alexander Ritschard) who has been ranked in the ATP 600's and I think has 3 years of eligibility. These guys would be great to practice against, but how the UVA lineup will shake out is impossible for me to say. UVA will be in the hunt for a NCAA title in 2015, even without Rubin. In fact, UVA is my preseason favorite to win it after UCLA's Giron turned pro.

    Rubin needs to play 1 or 2 to get any really serious match competition in the ACC or almost anywhere in college tennis, so he was probably smart to pick a school like WF. He has said he may stay only one year. If he does turn pro after a year, he will have little impact on WF tennis, I think they will finish 3rd this coming year behind UVA and likely UNC. I think Duke will be pretty even with them.
     
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  3. Deacon Drive

    Deacon Drive New User

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    It seems like a pretty big signing. I looked back through the list of past junior wimbledon champs and only saw one player in the past 30 years that went to college (maybe I missed some?).

    Rubin's signing, plus really nice new facilities, an annual atp tour event, and hosting the 2018 ncaa championships, sure gives me hope that Wake' program has some very positive momentum.
     
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  4. CaliDawg

    CaliDawg Rookie

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    If Rubin's deciding factor was the strength of opponents in the dual schedule, I'm not sure Wake was the right choice. Obviously playing #1 or #2 there would be better than in the middle of the lineup at UVA, but if he played 1 at a school in the PAC12 or SEC, he would face better competition.

    No offense to the ACC, but there's just not the depth there, particularly at the top of the lineups.
    [​IMG]
     
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  5. CaliDawg

    CaliDawg Rookie

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    <a href="http://tinypic.com?ref=nx6yvk" target="_blank"><img src="http://i62.tinypic.com/nx6yvk.jpg" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic"></a>
     
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  6. CaliDawg

    CaliDawg Rookie

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    Here's a pic of the data...
     
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  7. Clemson_tennis

    Clemson_tennis Legend

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    Certainly not true for the PAC 12. They have 3-4 good teams right now. The ACC is certainly strong enough and plus I imagine wake will
    Play a pretty tough out of conference schedule.
     
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  8. DaveKB

    DaveKB Rookie

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    UCLA lost its top 3 if you count Puget. USC returns its #1 and will be a very good team again. The rest of the PAC 12 is not very good. The SEC has really fallen down and it had no teams in the final 8 last year and very few top ranked players. The ACC is a little better at the top with UNC's Schnur and Duke has a quality #1, but the rest of the ACC is not very good, although there are few decent #1's.

    Rubin is from NY and probably did not want to play on the West Coast or in the deep South. WF is small private school with good academics and a great tennis facility. I doubt dual matches had much to do with his decision, but the risk of playing lower at UVA was probably a factor in choosing between WF and UVA.

    A guy like him will get to play many Futures and being Wimbledon junior champ he will get many WC's into main draw Challengers and maybe even some summer ATP events like the Winston Salem Open or the DC one. If he needs to play qualifiers for any ATP events, I expect WC's will be there for him. He will get plenty of competition.
     
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  9. jaggy

    jaggy G.O.A.T.

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    I am looking forward to the Winston Salem Open, the qualies should have quite a few college players and Rubin has a real shot at a WC Id guess
     
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  10. Deacon Drive

    Deacon Drive New User

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    Romain Bogaerts received a wc into the main draw last year, and I think a few Wake players received wc into the qualifying.
     
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  11. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

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    I love the decision. Great school and great tennis in the ACC. WF is my favorite campus in the ACC too.

    I hope he plays 4 years and realizes that the pro game is a tough gig. this is an amazing opportunity to play for the love of the game (and see where that leads) and earn a degree from one of the finest universities in the world.
     
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  12. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus G.O.A.T.

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    he proabably should have signed with UCLA or UVA, then at least he would have practiced with some decent players. to get 2 or 3 decent competition match isn't enough to play college tennis for a year. lol
     
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  13. Deacon Drive

    Deacon Drive New User

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    Thanks Cali, could you post the same chart for the pac12 and sec?
     
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  14. gocavaliersgo

    gocavaliersgo New User

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    That's data from last year but you didn't include players who played last year like Andrews and domijan, by the time the spring rolls around those rankings will be different
     
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  15. deacbb

    deacbb New User

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    I would be very, very surprised if Rubin DID NOT get a WC in the main draw of the WS Open, and I would assume that was already discussed prior to his commitment. As was mentioned above, Romain got a WC in the main draw last year upon transferring from Miss St., and several Wake players got WC into the qualies. I could be wrong but I didn't hear of him taking official visits to anywhere but Wake or UVA last fall, so it appears he was down to those 2 or pro for quite some time. Not knowing all new ACC recruits for next year, if Rubin were to have played 2 last year, which is assuming the talent level isn't incredibly different his opponents vs the top 4 teams would have been:

    UVA: Domo or Frank
    UNC: Schneider
    Duke: Saba or Tahir
    Clem: Maden

    That's pretty solid. My guess is Bresky will play him and Romain are both spots, much like Frank and Domijan rotated last year.
     
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  16. CaliDawg

    CaliDawg Rookie

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    Here are the data for each school in the Big 5 conferences: ACC, Big1G, Big12, PAC12, and SEC.

    On this metric alone, the conferences are ranked (in order): Big 12, SEC, ACC, Big1G, Pac12.

    Caveats: this is not a measure of a conference's overall strength. It simply is an estimate for the strength of schedule at the very top of the lineup. This also excludes non-conference match ups.

    [​IMG]

     
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  17. epaige

    epaige Rookie

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    Feddie, surprised. The Farm should have been the choice for Rubin.
     
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  18. MethodTennis

    MethodTennis Hall of Fame

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    I know very little about these players but wouldn't Rubin beat altamarino and be expected to play ahead of him?
     
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  19. DaveKB

    DaveKB Rookie

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    I really do not know who would win. I have never seen Rubin play. He won Wimbledon juniors, but was not seeded that highly as I recall. I saw Altamirano at the US Open juniors last year, when he beat current UCLA player MacDonald, who will probably play #1 at UCLA this year in three close sets.

    I follow UVA tennis very closely, but we have three (if Collin comes) new guys coming in (a Swiss player age 21 Alex Ritschard who has been ranked in the ATP 600's and freshman Henrik Wiersholm (probably the number 3 American HS player) and we return 5 of our top 7 that barely lost to USC in the NCAA's semis. We did lose #1 Alex Domijan and the oldest Shane (Justin) brother who usually played 5.

    UVA has so much talent next year that knowing where Rubin or Altamirano would play would have played is truly guessing, but I think the lineup will be senior Mitchell Frank at 1, junior Ryan Shane at 2, sophomore TS Kwiatkowski at 3, junior Mac Styslinger at 4 and then two of the new guys at 5 and 6, all of the new guys could play higher and until practice starts no one knows and Boland never discusses his lineups publicly.

    One UVA poster on the UVA tennis message board, who has seen Ritschard play (I have not), said he was probably as good as Domijan and Frank. Even if that is too high an evaluation, he must be very good if he was ranked in the 600's and won roughly half of his Futures matches.

    WF clearly has considerably less over all talent so Rubin is virtually assured of playing 1 or 2.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2014
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  20. deacbb

    deacbb New User

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    The amount of talent at UVA is truly unbelievable. It's tough to guess the top 6 next year. I'm going to assume Altamirano is going pro.

    1. Frank - I think this is the only guarantee
    2. Could be several people, but I agree Ryan Shane is probably the safest bet. Ritschard is a possibility as well.
    3. See above
    4. TSK
    5. Mac Styslinger
    6. Weirsholm or Aragone

    If Altamirano does come, I think it's reasonable to think that he would play anywhere from 2 - 5.
     
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  21. tennis_tater

    tennis_tater Semi-Pro

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    Didn't Harrison Richmond come to UVa with pretty good junior credentials? Wasn't he an Orange Bowl winner, blue chip/top 10 national player/represented USA Junior Davis Cup?

    What about Jordan Daigle? Didn't he win Carson 16's? Wasn't he top 10 national player before going to ITF's and getting top 80 ranking?

    Aragone too - didn't he have great junior credentials as well.

    Are Weirsholm and CA on a completely different level from these guys? Or are they just more highly thought of because they are this year's top recruits?
     
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  22. DaveKB

    DaveKB Rookie

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    All of those guys plus Luca Corintelli are in the "mix" at 5 and 6. Richmond and Corintelli were playing doubles only at year end and Aragone did play #6 vs USC in the NCAA semis when they chose not to play Styslinger who was just not playing very well. Daigle played #6 a few times. I really do not know who are the best players, but IMO UVA's #9 and #10 could probably play 4 thru 6 at 95% of D1 schools and 1 and 2 at almost half the D1 schools. There is no way to know this for sure, but all of these guys can really play.

    If CA comes I think this is the best team in terms of tennis depth that UVA has ever had. The only thing is we do not have a future top 100 type guy at the top like Steve Johnson was, unless one of the new guys turns out that good. Frank is a great college player but does not have a big game.
     
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  23. deacbb

    deacbb New User

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    Richmond is certainly a great tennis player. I left him out of the mix solely based on my opinion that if they viewed him as a top notch singles guy, he would have gotten more opportunities over the last 2 years. Even early on last year, it was Daigle playing more at 6, and then it was Aragone.
     
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  24. MikeS

    MikeS New User

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    Scholarships

    It seems unlikely that Virginia had (or has) any scholarships available for Noah Rubin as they lost only Domijan from last year. They already have recruited 2 top notch players so it make me wonder if there will even be a scholarship available for Altamirano. UVA is not an inexpensive university and I believe men's teams are only allowed 4.5 scholarships. How these are distributed among current and future players is not entirely clear to me.
     
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  25. tennis_tater

    tennis_tater Semi-Pro

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    MikeS - in one of the other threads, there is a post about Jordan Daigle possibly not returning to UVa next season. I know nothing about that, but if true, maybe Daigle's departure is freeing up a scholarship.
     
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  26. matchtime

    matchtime New User

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    For men's tennis, a player not regularly in line-up would have very few scholarship dollars and likely none at all. Also someone who got good money to come the year prior but doesn't perform loses that money to those that do or an incoming recruit. Ya, unlikely that UVA would have had any dollars for NR, at least not legally.
     
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  27. Hmmmmm

    Hmmmmm Rookie

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    Not necessarily, many colleges sign recruits to guaranteed scholarships for their entire college career, so if he doesn't perform to expectations they are stuck with it.
     
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  28. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus G.O.A.T.

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    Is he a sure lock for next NCAA singles champion ? Or will he not fulfill his potential ?
     
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  29. George Opelka

    George Opelka New User

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    Great player, but a sure lock? You mean like the Miami Heat? No such thing as a sure lock in sports. He'll have to be on form just to win KZOO. Does that mean he does not fulfill his potential? No. It just means someone was better on that given day.
     
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  30. tennis_tater

    tennis_tater Semi-Pro

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    Kalamazoo Boy's 18 field is pretty stacked this year, with Collin Altamirano
    Jared Donaldson, Ernesto Escobedo, Stefan Kozlov, Noah Rubin, Alex Rybakov, Francis Tiafoe, and Mmoh getting wild cards, along with some other top juniors fighting it out in the qualifications.

    US junior tennis seems pretty stacked/deep at this time. Would be nice to see more of the players on the above-list do the same as Noah and give college at least one year. Nevertheless, any one of those players who got the wild card are more than capable of winning K Zoo on a given day.
     
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  31. Francisco

    Francisco New User

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    Papa beats Rubin 6-1 in the third.
     
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  32. jaggy

    jaggy G.O.A.T.

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    That has to be considered a surprise
     
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  33. JLyon

    JLyon Hall of Fame

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    Tulsa got a huge coup landing him.
     
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  34. boomerTennis

    boomerTennis Rookie

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    Saw him played last week at the ITF Future here in Tulsa, and he is quite a catch I would agree. Some of the strengths I noted was great big serve and quite high pct first serve (seems like he outserved no.1 seed of the tourney Broady during their match), great 2-handed backhand with depth and heavy spin, and also moved really well for his bigger frame. However, he does have a tendency to overspin things on his FH wings which ended with quite a bit of shorter balls in the court, and got pushed around for these shorter spinny FH.
     
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  35. Clemson_tennis

    Clemson_tennis Legend

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    It's good too see Papa and Rubin both choose non traditional
    Powers to play tennis.
     
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  36. tenniscp

    tenniscp Semi-Pro

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    Good post. Rubin is good but there is a pretty stiff competition this year, Donaldson, Altamirano, Papa, Escobedo, Catanzariti, and the young guns like Kozlov, Tiafoe, Paul, Opelka, Rybakov
     
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  37. deacbb

    deacbb New User

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    Noah was up 6-2 and an early break in the 2nd and couldn't close it out. Too bad, but Papa has had great results recently as well.
     
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  38. George Opelka

    George Opelka New User

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    So true. I think it's dangerous to even put a 1 year trial on college. You don't "turn" pro... it just happens.
     
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  39. ClarkC

    ClarkC Hall of Fame

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    There is no legal guarantee. No NCAA scholarship offer is for more than one year in any sport. Schools can make whatever verbal promises they want, but they are not "stuck" in any legal sense.
     
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  40. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

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    True. On the men's side the coach can divided that money up any way he wants. Full ride, 75%, 50%, 25% any percentage. Usually if a scholarship is not renewed, it is because the athlete failed to meet requirements outlined by the coach. And it's not always just performance win/loss related. Showing up on time, going to class, effort in practice and matches, following instruction, attitude, not staying out past curfew, playing summer events, etc. are often taken into consideration. Not all players recruited will be starters, but they all can be contributors.
     
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  41. cali_tennis_machine

    cali_tennis_machine New User

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    If Rubin lost to Papa who lost to Schneider does that mean Rubin is playing #3 at unc?
     
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  42. tenniscp

    tenniscp Semi-Pro

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    schneider lost to kwiatlowski in straights. does that mean thai can play 1 at unc?
     
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  43. ClarkC

    ClarkC Hall of Fame

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    Hard for Rubin to play #3 at UNC when he is going to Wake Forest. I don't think that is allowed.
     
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  44. cali_tennis_machine

    cali_tennis_machine New User

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    My point was that it's hard to be a given for NCAA champion when he is losing to Schneider.... And yes Thai would play ahead of Ronnie
     
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  45. tennisballer

    tennisballer Rookie

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    Noah Rubin is a very good player and was an unbelievable pickup for Wake Forest. With that being said, for us to expect him to come in go undefeated and completely light up the collegiate ranks may be a little unrealistic (and a slap in the face to the top players in the NCAA). Just as a quick reminder Giron and Schnurr were both top 600 in during last season and they lost several matches between them. Mitchell Frank (who Rubin will most likely play several times this year) just absolutely handled Liam Broady, 380ish ATP and former Wimbledon jr. Finalist, (another degree of separation to Rubin) in two consecutive tournaments.
     
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  46. matchtime

    matchtime New User

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    ^^^Well said. I am not sure why in tennis and particularly here, one good result means you are the second coming of Federer and the next NCAA champ, and one bad result means you suck for life. Even the best freshman coming in are just babies compared to the upperclassmen they play. More find themselves at 5-9 than they do 1-4 and for some reason, year after year, that seems to be a surprise.
     
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  47. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus G.O.A.T.

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    #47
  48. jaggy

    jaggy G.O.A.T.

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    Borg beats Nastase to win his first Wimbledon
     
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  49. ClarkC

    ClarkC Hall of Fame

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    Is this a post from the Twilight Zone that just arrived?
     
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  50. jaggy

    jaggy G.O.A.T.

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    Just my out there sense of humor.
     
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