not enjoying league tennis

Discussion in 'Adult League & Tournament Talk' started by raiden031, Jan 27, 2007.

  1. raiden031

    raiden031 Legend

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    So last night I played my second mixed doubles league match. The woman opponent was nothing more than a complete biatch. She started off by forcing my captain to leave the bench because she didn't want spectators on the court. Then at one point my partner faulted on her 1st serve, and then briefly suggested to me that I should move back because her weak 2nd serve might put me on the defensive, and the woman on the other side yells out "You can't do that! No talking between 1st and 2nd serve!". So my partner wasn't going to take crap from her and demanded to get her 1st serve back due to the woman's interruptive outburst. The male opponent who was returning refused to return to the baseline until my partner agreed it was still 2nd serve. During some changeover I didn't feel like sitting down so I stood on the court and practiced my serve mechanics. The woman yells "You can't practice during changeovers!". And finally the icing on the cake, my wife shows up to watch about 2/3 through the match and my partner tells her not to step foot on the court, in a way to mock the other woman. Between points I tell my wife about the woman being a biatch and also tell her how much longer the match will be. The woman asked if that was my wife and I said yes. Then the woman says "You can't talk to her during a match! You can't talk to anyone who isn't playing during the match. She could be a coach for all we know!". I couldn't believe the nerve of this biatch. That put me over the edge because she tried to tell me I couldn't talk to my own wife. So I proceeded to ace her on the next two serves, I swear I have never served harder ever!

    The woman sucked, and the man's second serve was really weak, yet the woman was standing right over the net when I was returning. I had the urge to pound the ball right at her so many times during the match. Somehow I controlled my urges but my teammates were all saying I should've done it. Man I've never encountered someone on such a power trip about a tennis match. It was funny watching my partner purposely make comments to spite the woman.

    So add that to the fact that I'm playing lousy and I'm just not enjoying this mixed doubles. I think I'll be happy playing the spring men's league where I can do singles.
     
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  2. Nick Irons

    Nick Irons Semi-Pro

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    Ahhh yes ...

    The 'non-singles' conundrum. I prefer singles over any form of doubles anyday due simply to it being all my glory and all my fault.

    I've played against many of players like this; the tennis kook.

    I'd suggest hitting right at her.
     
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  3. goober

    goober Legend

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    doubles league tennis seems to have a lot of drama associated with it which is why I only play social doubles and only rarely at that.
     
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  4. armand

    armand Banned

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    I hate mixed doubles and I usually play with nice people. Too much pressure on me to do something special when the ball comes my way.

    Yeah, I woulda hit that lady too. And/or complained to league officials about her attitude(it's not what she's saying, it's how she's saying it).
     
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  5. Topaz

    Topaz Legend

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    The best think you can do with people like these are to KNOW THE RULES! Have them with you on the court, and take them out and show them to anyone who tries anything like this ever again. Unfortunately, I've come up against a lot of these people who like to make rules up during the match, but since I'm also a captain, I know the rules inside and out and always have them on me. When they try something like that, I tell them the rule, and that usually shuts them up.

    The only thing that woman said that was right was, if this was a USTA match, you are not allowed to talk to anyone not on the court during the match. Even your wife.

    And, yeah, you totally should have nailed her at the net. If she's on top of it, she's asking for it.

    I've gone through spells where things were not enjoyable in league tennis, but then I stick around and it always seems to change.
     
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  6. cak

    cak Professional

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    Actually, on many of those points the lady was right.

    In most leagues you can't have teammates, or people in general, on the court who aren't playing unless they are court monitors. Even in social matches it's distracting to have people sitting on the benches on the court. The benches are there for the players to sit on during change overs, not for spectators. Spectators are welcome outside the fence. I'm not sure if you have different rules and customs for indoor courts, but I really can't imagine having spectators ON the court.

    I'm not sure what you mean by service mechanics, but there are rules against practicing with balls between games. If you were just stretching out your shoulder by swinging through your motion, that's fine. If you were hitting balls against the fence, not so much. If you were serving over the net during a change over that's a pretty clear cut infraction.

    If your district has a "no coaching" rule, or a coaching only between sets rule then no, you don't get to talk to your wife during the match.

    Yes, you can't have extremely brief conversations between first and second serve. But remember, it's something like 20 seconds between points, so if you used the 20 seconds before the 1st serve, you don't get another conversation pause.

    And obviously, you can nail the ball anywhere on the other side of the court, including at her, if you are so inclined.

    I think what happened was that you were not aware of the rules and etiquette for USTA tennis, and stepped on a few toes. That didn't start the match out on good footing. The opponents were riled up, and over reacted on the talking between serves. You escalated by calling them names, out loud, to your wife. They were calling you on the coaching technicality there, but they just as well could have called you on unsportsmanlike conduct (for calling her names) and had you forfeit the game. (I'm not sure about other districts, but in ours, team captains are allowed to file grievance on unsportsmanlike conduct for calling opponents names or using foul language. And despite all the weird grievances they allow captains to file for, this one I agree with. They are trying to make league play, especially mixed league play, a fun, social experience. We have had men in our club banned by USTA from mixed for a year for being unable to watch their language.)

    I play women's USTA, and the women seem to be much more of sticklers concerning rules. Men let lots of things go, like practicing serves on switchovers and chatting with spectators that the women just do not allow. In mixed you are going to come across this.
     
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  7. tennis-n-sc

    tennis-n-sc Professional

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    You might want to review the Rules of Tennis.
     
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  8. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    Oh, ugh.

    I'm sorry things have been a pain so far, Raiden. Don't give up on mixed or league tennis just yet, as there are solutions for the problems you describe. (Trust me, you'll find just as many flaming a-holes in men's league, so avoiding mixed might not help).

    I agree wholeheartedly with the posters who said that you should know the rules and code inside and out, and you should keep a copy in your tennis bag. People make up rules all the time, and they will back down when you ask them if they'd like to look it up. I have never once had to pull my rules out in a match. But I will if I have to.

    But, um . . . I'm afraid your team was a bit off on the rules, and you ran into opponents who didn't feel like cutting you some slack and were sticklers.

    First, the opponent was correct to block your captain from sitting on the bench. The opponent is free to waive the rule and allow this, but personally I am quite wary about this when I am playing. I don't know that other captain, and I don't know what problems he/she might present. Frankly, having an associate of one team be a spectator can be somewhat intimidating, so I usually don't permit it. Or if I do, I stipulate that the spectator can be there, but they cannot say a peep or communicate or applaud or have expressions. If they violate our deal and lack self-control, I'll then ask them to leave.

    Regarding practicing your serve at changeovers, your opponent is correct. The Code states that all practice serves shall be taken during warm-up, which means you can't hit practice serves during changeovers. You can practice your toss, I guess, and do practice swings. You can run around in circles. I wouldn't have allowed you to fine-tune your serve, though.

    Regarding your talking to your partner between serves, this is fine under our Mid-Atlantic Rules. You have 20 seconds between points, and the local rule states "the above time intervals are measured from the instant the point is completed to the time when the next server begins his/her service motion." So you can definitely talk to your partner between serves. The best response to the objection would simply be to explain the rule once and then do what you want and ignore further complaints, IMHO.

    That said, you aren't entitlted to a new first serve because your opponent gripes that you are taking too long or whatever. The server is entitled to two serves if there is a delay, but whether the delay warrants extra serves is a decision left to the receiver according to the Code. The opponents were correct not to cut you a break on that one, as the delay was minimal IMHO.

    No, you can't talk to anyone during a match, period.

    That said, I do it all the time. If I need to talk to someone, I will. So if I run out of water and I know my teammate on the next court has an extra, I would have no problem asking her for it. But I take certain precautions. I'll say to the opponent "Hey, I'm out of water. Mind if I ask Kathy for her bottle?" Then I ask Kathy in earshot of the opponent. I have found that opponents will waive virtually any rule if you ask nicely in advance and if they can see no gamesmanship is involved.

    So, uh. Hang in there, OK? I have played many league matches, and I've never once run into anyone who was a problem. Many problems can be handled by knowing the rules and having them at hand to bludgeon people who do not. The remaining problems can simply be ignored.

    As for not playing well, hey. It happens to the best of us! This too shall pass.
     
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  9. tennissavy

    tennissavy Hall of Fame

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    How old are all the people involved in this incident?
     
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  10. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    Next time nail her to the tree of woe, you will feel better for this. Btw, my partner told me to smoteth the woman before they nailed her. Target practice brah.
     
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  11. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Did you win or lose?
     
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  12. eunjam

    eunjam Rookie

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    the best revenge is to just win.

    with those type of players, i remember at the end of the match, i would go up for the handshake.......and then pull away at the last second, saying 'psych.'
     
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  13. raiden031

    raiden031 Legend

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    Thats fine, but the woman was being a nasty biatch about it. She wasn't polite by any means.

    I was practicing my serve swing, I did not hit a single ball.

    Thats fine, I was simply telling her the status of the match so far. Once again, the woman was a nasty biatch about it.

    Immediately after 1st serve, my partner ran over to me to tell me something and immediately the woman objected. It was less than 20 seconds.

    The woman started off on the wrong foot by patronizing my captain for sitting on the bench.

    She didn't hear me call her any names. I whispered it and was on the complete far end of the court. And don't turn this around on me. The woman was the aggressor and my partner did stoop to her level a bit, but I stayed out of it. When the woman starts directing it at me is when I draw the line. But still other than upping the speed of my serve whenever she was returning, I did not contribute to this BS.

    I understand your points, but this woman was not just enforcing the rules. She was either 1) on a power trip and it makes her feel good to boss people around or 2) she is so insecure about her own game that she needs to anger her opponents with her *****y-ness by being a stickler in order to improve her chances of winning. Either way she showed no respect for her opponents and treated us like children.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2007
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  14. raiden031

    raiden031 Legend

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    I wanted to soooo bad. Everyone on my team said the same thing, and it would've been easy because she had a weak volley, was standing too close to the net given that her partner's second serve was a cream puff that allowed me to basically return it from the service line.

    But to me taking advantage of that would've been like an assault, although more acceptable because it is not illegal.

    I did want my serve to hit her, so I went all out on it, and I figured the fact that it has to bounce first gives her a fair chance of avoiding it.
     
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  15. raiden031

    raiden031 Legend

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    Cindy, my point wasn't to show that she was wrong and I was right about the rules. I could care less what the rules would say about each event that occurred. However none of these supposed violations gave my team an advantage over hers. She was not polite in her methods to enforce the rules. She was extremely condescending and downright nasty. What bothered me was that she showed a complete lack of respect for her opponents from the moment she opened her mouth to my captain. She even had the nerve to try to engage in small talk after the match as if she wasn't being a complete biatch for the past 1h45m.

    Its been frustrating because I play singles casually with two 4.0 men and one of them I lost 6-3, 6-4 the other day. Also I play singles once a week with a strong 3.5 woman who went undefeated for her team's #1 singles spot last year. Last time I lost to her was like 2 months ago so it is now routine for me to beat her. I even have a few bagel sets every so often. Yet my record is now 0-2 in 6.0 mixed doubles (did you read my response to your "raiden, how did it go" post?). The problems I have with the USTA mixed are more pressure because the results count and as a result I can't stop making UEs. I must have double faulted at least 10 times. When I play singles casually, I usually average 2-3 double faults per match. Both teams we lost to, the women were absolutely horrible and somehow the men were able to hold their own and beat us. Both me and my partner have good mechanics, but we both are UE machines. Its just frustrating.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2007
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  16. slice bh compliment

    slice bh compliment G.O.A.T.

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    Cak wrote:
    I play women's USTA, and the women seem to be much more of sticklers concerning rules. Men let lots of things go, like practicing serves on switchovers and chatting with spectators that the women just do not allow. In mixed you are going to come across this.

    That's probably accurate, but slightly unfair to women. Men are to blame at times, too. Look, I do not pretend to know a lot about league tennis -- having never really played it. But even I know that a lot of USTA league players are convinced they are playing serious COMPETITIVE TENNIS. Sorry. It is not. It is not a tournament. It is not exactly social either, though it ought to be.

    I think the ones who get testy are the ones who never played competitive tennis before, or another sport at a high level. It's natural. I have seen women engage in b!tchy, petty behavior on a tennis court, of course, but I think this applies to guys, too, from what I've seen at the park and at the clubs I've played at.

    By the way, to sort of echo what Cindy wrote.....just know the rules, man, so people can't push you around and pressure you with petty BS. It's sad that you have to keep a rule book in your bag, but it's a good idea. [Now, which one? USTA? ITF? ATP? WTA?LOCAL LEAGUE HANDBOOK AND DIRECTORY? THE CODE? Better go ahead and get that 12 pack bag...or the wheeled duffle for your league matches!]

    A quick sidenote:
    It says in the Gospel of John, "know the truth and the truth shall set you free". I'm thinking, free....free to play your best tennis even in a crappy mxdbls lg match!! It says in the Gospel according to Bill Tilden (aka Match Play and the Spin of the Ball), "it is a wise player who knows his game", and if I may add, the rules are a part of THE overall game, so you might as well make them a part of your game.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2007
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  17. slice bh compliment

    slice bh compliment G.O.A.T.

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    There is the problem.

    This is clearly frustrating for you. Either stop playing league tennis, or stop being so results-oriented.
    Have a conversation with someone understands how liberating it is to play with a process-oriented approach.
    Breathe better.
    Enjoy the matches, because that is why you play -- ENJOYMENT (I HOPE).
    Eventually, you will learn to enjoy the tough parts of a match, too.

    And if you cannot cure yourself of the result-oriented vibe...just know that people who are process-oriented tend to win more and have more fun.

    BTW, the two lines from Rudyard Kipling's poem, "If", the ones inscribed over the player's entrance to Centre Court at the All-England Club come to mind:
    "If you can dream and not make dreams your master,
    If you can meet with triumph and disaster
    and treat those two impostors just the same...
    then you will be a man, my son."

    Sorry for getting preachy. But, again, take this with a grain of salt, since I'm a guy who only played actual tournaments and now only plays socially and for the fun of it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2007
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  18. raiden031

    raiden031 Legend

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    Well there's two problems. The one is my lousy performance and the second is the crappy attitudes of some players like this woman I was talking about. The combination of both has made my league experience so far miserable. I don't mind losing to the better player(s), but its annoying when I play a game way below my ability because I can't stop making UEs. Perhaps that part of it is just the experience that I lack in league play, and will iron itself out over time.
     
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  19. Pancho

    Pancho Semi-Pro

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    I can certainly relate to that. Is that a USTA mixed doubles league?

    I have been playing USTA league matches for years. I'm in a 5.5 Men's league.

    Mixed Doubles league tennis does have a bit of drama associated with it. Your opponents will say anything to object to annoy you. I have seen so many league matches where players just walk off the courts in disgust because of the things you said. Also, many players do not like to play away matches where you have to drive to get there. Many times the matches are rained out, cancelled for another reason or another, or sometimes even have restrictions that forbid you to play at that club (a clever tactic for you to default/lose). Many times, I have seen players drop out in the middle of the season simply because they got fed up.
     
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  20. slice bh compliment

    slice bh compliment G.O.A.T.

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    So these opponents have crappy attitudes....they do and say stuff that is unethical, but not illegal, and you let it affect the way you play? Sorry, man. But that's your problem.
     
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  21. slice bh compliment

    slice bh compliment G.O.A.T.

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    That could be it. Hopefully after a few more miserable weeks, you will learn that players like that are basically asking you to raise your level and whup them.
    Best of luck, man.
     
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  22. raiden031

    raiden031 Legend

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    Where did I say that it affected the way I play? I said it made my experience miserable.
     
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  23. slice bh compliment

    slice bh compliment G.O.A.T.

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    Right therrrr, right threrrrr.

    Sorry if I misunderstood that. Maybe I was reading between the lines.
     
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  24. cak

    cak Professional

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    Being a native Californian that has never played indoors, I'm still entralled with the whole spectator on the court idea. I've never heard of anyone having spectators on the court.

    So, in other areas, how common is it to allow spectators on the court? Are they allowed to talk amongst themselves? Do they get hit often? Stepped on? Are your spectators limited to your bench? Where do the players sit on switchovers? Do you just call lets if the have coughing fits or drop something? Or do you just get used to having distractions that close? I assume they aren't allowed to drink or snack, or is food and drink also allowed on the court? Are children allowed as on court spectators, or is it only people you are sure will sit relatively still and be quiet?

    It isn't uncommon here for the observation deck parties to get shushed during a tough match, so I can't even imagine people actually on the court. I bet players need much better concentration than we have.
     
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  25. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    OK, so you lost this one. Just as I thought, though I didn't get a straight answer.

    You:

    1. Break several rules/etiquette
    2. Lose in spite of that
    3. Open your post with "woman is a complete biatch"

    I am wondering why any woman with self-respect even bothers to respond to your post.
     
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  26. tennis-n-sc

    tennis-n-sc Professional

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    No spectators on the court here, even indoors. And for the most part there is no talkng between players and spectators. Mixed is a little more lax, even in league play. If one of opponent's walked up as a spectator and the opponent spoke to them and told where the match was, I don't think I would freak out nor have I ever seen anyone else freak out, or even mention it. Here, partners talk all the time to each other, even between the first and second serve. Simply saying back up is no rule violation that I know of. Having said all that, everyone occasionally runs into a rule spouting opponent. That's why I always carry a copy of the current Friend at Court in my bag. For my reference and to allow my opponent to look up a rule that they may be in doubt about, or should be in doubt about. I love mixed dubs and have had some of my most competitive and fun matches in mixed. I think some guys playing mixed for the first time get frustrated because beating the ladies is not so easy.
     
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  27. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    Never had players/coach/captain on the court unless they were playing on the adjacent court. But come on, had dozens of players standing behind fences and in bleachers along the courts. It gets noisy but never had coaching from them. Always waited for a break between sets for that. Remember win if you can, lose if you must, but always cheat, cheat, cheat!
     
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  28. raiden031

    raiden031 Legend

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    Whatever rules I supposedly broke were rules that most people don't make a big deal of. At least they would be polite about it. You are blaming me for my captain wanting to sit in her own chair on the side to watch the match, and you're blaming me that my wife who knows nothing about tennis decides to show up mid-way through and watch my match. I didn't know it was illegal to swing your racquet while standing on the court during changovers. And finally you are making a BIG assumption that my loss had anything to do with the rules/etiquette issues.

    Why would women be offended by this topic? Simply because I use the most appropriate term available to describe this woman?

    Also you haven't read all of my posts because you are defending her behavior because of your agreement that she was right about the rules? Rules are rules but it is never acceptable to talk to people in a completely condescending way from the moment you meet them. You obviously missed the point that my complaint is not the rules, but her attitude.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2007
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  29. raiden031

    raiden031 Legend

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    The funny thing is, my opponents' captain was also present, but he was sitting in the very far corner of the court, where my wife ending up standing right behind him when she showed up. It was a court that had curtains so they were kinda right where the curtains meet.
     
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  30. goober

    goober Legend

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    I am telling you go play mens singles and you will enjoy it more. I rarely if ever encountered that kind of antics in tournament play or league play. It is mono a mono competition with little drama.

    If you insist on playing doubles play mens and if you play mixed dubs do it only socially.

    Well that's what I do and I am happy :)
     
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  31. LoveThisGame

    LoveThisGame Professional

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    Lots of fun, eh? Lots of politics, too. I haven't played in USTA leagues, and from what I've heard from friends, including one who has captained many a team and won at nationals, I don't want to have the tail wag the dog with "stuff".

    I don't play as many USTA tournaments as I used to, and I regret that leagues have eaten into tournament competitors.

    I do fondly remember inter-club tournaments and industrial leagues, really enjoying them.

    I think I understand your comments and I can't fault them. Allow me to pass on one comment I always made to college and H.S. teams I coached. Stress is something you accept; someone can be a jerk but you can refuse to respond or think about it. Yes, it's not particularly easy, but practice makes it work. If it helps, after someone acts as a jerk, just stand there with a SEG (s_it-eating grin) and let them see it. It is a good way to relax the facial muscles and to get into the opponent's head.
     
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  32. Sakkijarvi

    Sakkijarvi Semi-Pro

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    Males can be drama queens too

    <I am telling you go play mens singles and you will enjoy it more. I rarely if ever encountered that kind of antics in tournament play or league play. It is mono a mono competition with little drama.>

    I loved this comment! I'm back to tennis a little over a year and currently in my 4th singles league season. As a seasoned athlete it didn't take me long to take note of the mental game, and 'games' going on out there and I began working on that part of my game as intently as my strokes and serve.

    The club I play in has all these Type A men, Wall Street, lawyers, those guys. Used to winning, success-oriented, many (seemingly all), 'working with a pro' to get ready for their matches...as in 'my pro said' and to include, 'when I was playing in Florida, my pro there,' , uh, "where in Florida sez slats (making smalltalk)", 'oh, Boca Raton'.

    So one of my first opponents, a top corporate lawyer, tells me early in our first set, "you have a fatal flaw I'm going to discuss with you after the match..." I beat the schnook and ask him afterward, "so, what was this fatal flaw?" To which he says, 'uh, huh...oh yeah...nothing.' Later I learn he is the head-game king, and delights in beating opponents on the court and giving them a beating mentally.

    I could go on...but suffice it to say, I learned who is tightly wound, calls out their own name (dammitt, John!!!) and all that. As I continued studying the phenomenon, reading the same literature I'm sure everyone else here absorbed in the 80's (Inner Game of Tennis followed by the originally titled follow-on "Inner Tennis", then Winning Ugly...etc.) the mental game came together to include no outward 'neg'...followed by its cousin, the equally important no inner neg...and lacking all the internal struggles one has the chance to observe.

    And what I've observed is some nights are the 'night of the yelling men' at my club. And some nights I can just pitch the ball back over the net and wait for some tightly wound dingdong to self destruct. My just-completed season saw me in three matches where I mounted come-backs, once from 1-5 and twice from 0-5. Mono vs. mono? It was me against YOU + YOU with plenty 'o drama from some male tennis queens.

    But I'd never hit at a women.

    Sakki
     
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  33. goober

    goober Legend

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    Put it this way Sakki, when Raiden plays Mens singles next session, you want to make a wager on how his whether his Mens singles league compares to his current Mixed doubles league? I am willing to bet that his Mens Singles league goes much smoother.

    I am glad I don't play at your club. I am in my 12th session of league play (4 per year) and I have yet to encounter anything remotely resembles what you describe. I can honestly say that 95% of the players are pleasant to play with and don't play mind games or resort to gamesmanship. The only thing I ever run into is some overt hooking but that has been one or two people out of like a 100.

    Most of the time I actually see the drama stuff happen on the lower levels (3.0-3.5) where players don't have the skills so they resort to other methods to win.
     
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  34. equinox

    equinox Hall of Fame

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    Raiden doesn't have any reason to apologise.

    Fact is lots of tennis playing women are headcases.

    It's just not worth playing mixed with 50% of these women.

    Let'em lose all there male partners and be forced to play midweek ladies.

    Go play mens dlbs or singles for a proper challenge.
     
    #34
  35. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Personally, I don't even consider mixed doubles real tennis for reasons I think most of you that have played it already understand. It's a completely different animal altogether. I think it was only invented as a way for husbands and wives to do something recreationally and socially together.
     
    #35
  36. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    We're kinda getting far afield here, I'd say.

    Men can be jerks. Women can be jerks. If you will only play tennis when you can be sure you will never encounter a jerk, you won't be able to play tournaments or league or tennis socials. Jerks are everywhere except your immediate circle of friends, perhaps.

    I think the best way to approach this is simple: know the rules and ignore *everything* else. If you're just waving your racquet around during changeovers and your opponent objects, smile sweetly and say the rules allow it and keep right on waving your racquet. Just because your opponent has a gripe or complaint does *not* mean you must knuckle under or engage in any way. It takes two to argue.

    My exhortation to know the rules has nothing to do with whether the issues that come up are important or affect the match. Knowing the rules allows you to be clear on when you must engage and when you can correctly ignore foolishness.

    Knowing the rules also helps you know when to be sweet and nice because you are asking for an accommodation outside the rules. Maybe the lady wasn't nice about your captain wishing to sit on the bench, but you were most definitely asking a favor. I gathered from your remarks that you didn't understand this, and the fact that you're still referring to the opponent as a biatch when she was totally correct in rebuffing your captain makes me wonder whether the request was made with the proper level of deference.

    CAK, it's pretty common for spectators to wish to sit on the court. Some of our facilities have no viewing area at all. Sometimes women bring their older kids, and they'd prefer that the kid not have to sit in the lobby for 2 hours. Sometimes spouses are there. I allowed a player's kid to be on the court once, but I wouldn't have if the player had taken a tone that suggested it was her right. She asked nicely, so we said OK and it worked fine. The rule in our section, though, is that spectators can be no closer than the middle of an adjacent court. Even when our players finish matches, they cannot watch their teammates from any closer than 1/2 court away.

    Lastly Raiden, I understand your frustration of going 0-2 in your debut in 6.0 mixed, especially since you were wondering if perhaps 6.0 was too low a level in the first place. Winning a league match is a whole different kettle of fish from social play, especially given the, erm, constraints under which the men play in mixed. You can't necessarily hit your "best" shots, perhaps, so you are pushed out of your comfort zone. Plus there's an unwritten expectation that you will "carry" your partner.

    I suspect doing mixed will push you to master shots and situations you wouldn't otherwise face. Besides, if you quit now it might look like you just don't like losing or something. If it were me, I'd stick around until I could dominate people, just to prove to myself that I could handle everything.

    But hey. There's no law that says you have to play mixed or play league.
     
    #36
  37. Supernatural_Serve

    Supernatural_Serve Professional

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    Its amazing how many people play tennis and don't know the rules. They've never read the Code once and are delusional about "the rules"

    Anyone who hasn't read the rules of tennis (ITF) or the Code, and made some effort to learn them, then they really should keep their mouth shut.

    Here's one of my own rules that's not in the Code: Don't talk to the opponent unless the rules require you to.

    Keeps me from gettting dragged into their drama among other things
     
    #37
  38. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    Oh, one more thing.

    Even though you're 0-2, 6.0 mixed might be too low for you. I played 5.5 ladies last season, and I lost half of my matches. If the level of play is too low, you can wind up losing matches even if you're "playing down" so to speak.

    We definitely need to find a way to get you on a 7.0 team.
     
    #38
  39. raiden031

    raiden031 Legend

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    I disagree if you are implying that being obnoxious, rude, and condescending is acceptable when rightfully enforcing rules. I stated multiple times that I don't have a problem with someone enforcing rules, but I have a problem with the rudeness of the person doing it, or when someone is so excessive about it that they are obviously on a power trip. And anything negative directed at her came as a consequence of her own actions.

    I don't understand why alot of the posted replies are judging me for not knowing the rules, as a way to excuse her behavior and attitude as acceptable. The only thought I have is that people here who excuse her use the same nasty behavior as part of their own strategy when playing league tennis.

    I don't really think much of the gender aspect of it. The frustration with my playing is that I feel like my partner and I were better all-around players than our opponents but seem to choke when it counts. The male opponent we were against even complimented my groundstrokes and said he thought both him and I should be a level up. Luckily both of my matches have at least been close, so if I was playing how I know I can play, we probably would've won.
     
    #39
  40. raiden031

    raiden031 Legend

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    Well I thought about this whole thing and determined that I am better at singles than doubles. However what I noticed about the times I played social doubles and was playing really well, was that I was with a partner who was as good or better than me. Maybe my losses in mixed are due to my inability to be the stronger player in doubles.

    And I know the USTA-record aspect of it affects me because I had over 10 doubles faults, which is definitely abnormal for me.
     
    #40
  41. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    The reason people appear to be judging you for not knowing the rules is because of this sentence in your first post:

    "She started off by forcing my captain to leave the bench because she didn't want spectators on the court."

    This means the first incident occurred because your captain was blatantly doing the wrong thing -- sitting on the court bench without asking nicely and obtaining permission. That got things off to a very bad start (geez, doesn't your captain even know the flippin' rules?).

    Yes, the lady could have been nice. There's never a justification for flat-out rudeness. But it sounds like it became an unnecessarily complicated situation because several people involved were wrong about the rules. Had everyone known the rules cold and abided by them from the get-go, there would have been *no* problems at all.

    Regarding your unhappiness with your play, well . . . I have heard this many times and experienced it myself. What we can do in social situations or lessons or classes becomes very difficult with the pressure of the USTA computer threatening to memorialize our poor play for the whole world to see. I have friends who have thrown their hands up and decided only to play socially (or not keep score) because the pressure messes up their games.

    Worse, you're a singles player so the whole dynamic of doubles adds extra pressure, what with your partner messing up and you feeling pressure not to disappoint.

    Then add in that you're the Dude on the mixed team so you're supposed to put on a show of power and precision and blah, blah, blah . . .

    Like I said, hang in there. If you can address these performance issues squarely it will make you a better tennis player and especially a better singles player. Being the stronger player on a doubles team is no walk on the beach. You have to play as well as you normally do, plus. You have to up your winners but shave your unforced errors. And sometimes you have to lead your partner around like a small child: "OK, when we lob over the opponent and drive them both back to the baseline, that would be a great time for you to come to net, especially since I was yelling "APPROACH!!!" :D
     
    #41
  42. raiden031

    raiden031 Legend

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    So I realized I didn't paint the most detailed picture in the first post, and thats why I added more detail in follow-up posts. What happened was that there was me, my partner, and my captain gathered on the side of the court before we even started warming up. The woman came over and said "Which of you are playing and which of you aren't? If you're not playing you need to leave, I don't want you on the court". I can't remember the exact wording, but is was rudely spoken. All three of us just looked at each other like, did this woman just say that? My captain of course responded in a way as to not allow someone to talk to her like that.

    Anyways, once my captain left we started playing. Then the woman starts nitpicking about talking between serves and all the other crap. Its not like we were instigating it from the start. I'd say after the 2nd or 3rd time my partner got pissed and starting pulling the same stuff back on her.
     
    #42
  43. Supernatural_Serve

    Supernatural_Serve Professional

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    The best way to contain opponents like this is to ignore them. It sounds like she played you like a fiddle. Don't let people do this.

    What she's doing at minumum is being rude and at most is gamesmanship. Its an integral part of some people's game. Throwing you off emotionally hoping to hook you, and then play it for all its worth.

    People like this shut up when you ignore them. In other words, without saying a word you are saying "I can't be negotiated with, I can't be manipulated, I can't be debated, I can't be touched by your drama"

    Do your talking with your game.

    Like with an 80mph forehand return at her at the net on a weak 2nd serve, take it early and anhilate her. And if she says something in response to this, ignore her and walk away.

    She will quickly learn that she is impotent to play with your head and you will have sent her a dramatic signal yourself.
     
    #43
  44. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    And tell your partner to do the same.

    Never, ever "get into it" with the opponent. Opponent can spend her time hollering rude things over the net, and you two can spend your time congratulating each other on your fine play.
     
    #44
  45. raiden031

    raiden031 Legend

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    My partner had the attitude that she wasn't going to allow this woman to talk to her like that. I had the attitude of letting the racquet do the talking. So I stayed out of the confrontation, other than venting about it here after the fact. Had this not been a USTA-sanctioned match, I probably would've walked off the court without saying much, because rather than sink to that level, I don't give people like that the time of day. My partner definitely fueled it by firing back, but I can't say I really blame her. It takes alot of self-control to ignore it.
     
    #45
  46. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    raiden031, if I might offer some advice from someone who's been there. First, congratulate yourself for showing enough restraint not to hit at the woman. I didn't see what level you were playing, but there are two schools of thought concerning that. First, the mens' school which is usually don't. And second the womens' which is usually "she's on court, she's got to expect it". I've had more than one mixed partner tell me, in effect, nail her.

    Next if you really want to **** this woman, or any player like her regardless of gender, off simply laugh at her. When she quotes the rules, and she's snippy, just laugh it off. Then, proceed to beat the pants off her. One of my favorite things to do at this point it not break out the nuclear groundstrokes. No, the thing to do here is to run them. Run them mercilessly and high five and laugh with your partner. Turn it into fun.

    The thing is, if you let someone get to you like this, you lose. You won't play as good. My last occassion to have this happen was earlier this year during combo season. I was playing 8.5 and my partner was a 4.0. We were playing a couple of guys who were paired similarly. One of them was the club pro who self-rated 4.5 (he honestly was a 4.0 IMO) and his partner who was a computer verified 4.0. We won the first set 6-1 and were pretty much crusing in the second. At 0-5, 15-30 and serving to me, I called the guy's first serve out. He said I hooked him. I said, no, I didn't but if he felt strongly about it, he could take the point. He said no, it was my call, but it was a hook. I offered him two. He said no again. At this point, I insisted because the discussion, although not my fault, was a distraction. He took two. The return went back faster than the serve for a winner. After the ball went by him, I laughed and 5'd my partner. At 15-40, I prayed (silently) that my partner wouldn't win his point because I wanted it again. My prayers were answered and at 30-40, he lined up to serve to me. He hit the hardest first serve of the night (that was in) and I hit a fairly lucky harder return right down the middle between the two of them. Game, set and match.

    Concentrate on having fun.
     
    #46
  47. tennis-n-sc

    tennis-n-sc Professional

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    I also like to ask the rules expert on the other of the net just what rule they are referring to and can they show it to me. It is rare, but I still come across these people and, IMO, if you allow it to continue in the wrong, it can take over the match. Best to get it settled early, then both sides of the net can enjoy the match. Of course, if they are right, conform to the rules.
     
    #47
  48. BigJEFF

    BigJEFF New User

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    I have played a lot of mixed doubles in my life we were at sectionals on our way to Nationals I might add lol when I came a across a rather witchy woman who started in warm up by telling me she will call foot faults on both of us( i have played tennis for over 30 yrs and never been called for a foot fault ever) I laughed and didnt say a word and then she told me very rudely that I was not gonna intimidate her at all . I looked at her and smiled and said " Then why dont you just shut the f --- UP " she got very nervous and we won the match 6 -2 6-0 I didnt win a sportsmanship award but hey my point is don't let these kinda people get away with that stuff ... I did feel kinda bad and thought the whole match my partner was probably a little pissed but afterwards she said it was hillarious .That lady was totally shocked and taken back it also helps that I am 6-7 and over 300lbs lol her husband was there and he gave me a look but I think even he was happy someone finally said that to her one more note my wife heard me, well most of the people within 4 crts heard me so I was in kinda a little trouble but it wasnt the first time ....
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2007
    #48
  49. Supernatural_Serve

    Supernatural_Serve Professional

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    In otherwords, your mere presence intimidated her. You didn't even have to look at her. She saw you and imagined monster overheads, her weak partner returning into your massive poaches bearing down on her.

    This match was over before it began and she announced it before the match began.

    6' 7" over 300 lbs. That's a lot of net person to deal with, and when you are moving forward its even more intimidating.

    Punish the little people who dare to open their mouth with big man game.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2007
    #49
  50. gsquicksilver

    gsquicksilver Semi-Pro

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    i played an open doubles night one time and i was paired with this man in his 50's who was constantly trying to critique me, telling me i should do this do that, bend this and that. and i have been playing for 14 years! i could beat this old man with one hand. so one time, i was at net, the ball was coming at me, so of course, natural reaction, i go for the shot by poaching a bit. he yelled, "I GOT IT, I TOLD YOU I GOT IT, I AM VERY QUICK!!!!" i was then pissed off, yelled back at him (oh i never knew who he was until that night) and said, "calm yourself, it's natural reaction!" so he was quiet for a bit, but soon progressed back to his old self. later, that night, i was paired with someone else and played against him. my juices started going when there was a lob and i was at net. i hit the overhead and it bounced off his chest. needless to say, he never bothered me after that. it felt good at the moment, but the next day i thought about it again...the man was in his 50s, maybe i shouldn't have pegged him like that.
     
    #50

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