novak will win Madrid

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by dominikk1985, May 5, 2011.

  1. dominikk1985

    dominikk1985 Legend

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    I say novak will win madrid and beat nadal on the way.

    I know nadal is the clay goat and clay usually is not novaks best surface but I think the time for novak has come. I think he is ready to beat nadal on clay.

    novak look nearly invincible today. nadal has dominated so far but he has yet to face still unbeaten novak djokovic. I don't think nadl can deal with novak in uber form even on clay.
     
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  2. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

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    I think its definitely shaping up to be another Nadal-Djoko final! (unless wonder-boy Bellucci feels like spoiling the party).

    I'll bet Rafa's a wee bit nervous at the prospect of having to face Novak yet again in a Masters final.He just CAN'T afford to lose another one to him.Two on the trot was bad enough and clay is his own domain! For Novak,beating Rafa on clay would be the most important next step in his campaign to take the no.1 spot.If he achieves this as well,the FO will be well within his sights!

    So much is riding on this for the two best players in the world!!
     
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  3. CCNM

    CCNM Hall of Fame

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    I wish somebody would challenge Rafa, getting tired of him winning all the time....
     
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  4. Heracles

    Heracles Banned

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    Nadal should have won Miami.

    Djokovic has been average on clay this season, only playing against very inferior opponents and not being tested at all.

    Nadal is simply a better clay court player. Djokovic hype is way too big . Sure he is undefeated but Nadal was very close to him in both IW and Miami and had more a serve breackdown than anything else.

    If Nadal was that close on HC he will win on clay, as simple as that.
     
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  5. tenis1

    tenis1 Banned

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    Let me put it this way.
    Djokovic was one point away (3 times) from beating Nadal in Madrid 2 years ago.
    He is better player now, better serve, much more confident.
    If he was this close two years ago on this clay, he can win now, as simple as that.
     
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  6. nadalbestclass

    nadalbestclass Hall of Fame

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    Bring it!! :twisted:
     
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  7. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Even if Djokovic does beat Nadal in Madrid, the French Open is the one that matters. In best of 5 sets, Nadal is even more formidable.
     
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  8. YodaKnowsBest

    YodaKnowsBest Banned

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  9. Heracles

    Heracles Banned

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    Nadal was awful in 2009. He even lost to Federer at that same tournament.

    Nadal is way better than Djokovic on clay and Djokovic only surviving by some miracle to Nadal on HC is not a big threat on clay.
     
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  10. Arailic

    Arailic New User

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    Nole is great, and I am a true fan, but there is a long way to go before a final!!!!!!! He still has to go through Ferrer and than possibly Berdich prior to even getting to somebody on the other side of the draw, Fedal!!!!!! He is playing some great tennis but has yet to be really tested on clay. I really hope he meets and exceeds everyone's expectations including mine!!!!!!! Let's just take it one match at a time exactly the way Nole is taking it. Let's just not get ahead of ourselves and let's hope his winning streak goes beyond tomorrow.
     
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  11. viduka0101

    viduka0101 Hall of Fame

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    is the circus back in town?(in madrid that is)
     
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  12. TennisFan3

    TennisFan3 Legend

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    LOL! If Djokovic has improved since 2009, is Nadal stationary and just sitting there twiddling his thumbs?

    Fact is Nadal has improved tremendously too. Clay 2009 was his worst year; he was injured and in a funk mentally. Djokovic came close, Fed beat him in straights. And then Sod took him out in RG. Any top player could have beaten the clay 2009 Nadal. The fact the Djoker got close in Madrid 2009 means NOTHING now.

    Did Djokovic even face Nadal in 2010, when the Spaniard bought his aggressive hard court game to clay?

    The very fact that Nadal got sooo close to Djokovic on hards means that Djokovic has really no chance on clay.

    I hope you're around on the Sundays of Madrid, Rome and Paris - if Djokovic- Nadal meet..:twisted:
     
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  13. Jeepers

    Jeepers Professional

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    I feel a bit sick :/
     
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  14. nadalbestclass

    nadalbestclass Hall of Fame

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    LMAOOOO! Rafa's Family should totally do that. Dad, Mom, Sis, Gf haha
     
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  15. YodaKnowsBest

    YodaKnowsBest Banned

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    [​IMG]
     
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  16. viduka0101

    viduka0101 Hall of Fame

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    better not,next step after that is getting told by Federer to shut up and behave

    nobody want's that
     
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  17. nadalbestclass

    nadalbestclass Hall of Fame

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  18. Mick

    Mick Legend

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    djokovic's next opponent is ferrer and ferrer has never lost to djokovic on clay before :shock:
     
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  19. nadalbestclass

    nadalbestclass Hall of Fame

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    And Rafa had never lost to Novak in a final. First time for everything!
     
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  20. Mick

    Mick Legend

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    looks like to win madrid, novak would have to create history in a number of fronts (e.g. beating ferrer on clay, breaking lendl's winning streak, etc...) :)
     
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  21. TennisFan3

    TennisFan3 Legend

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    The current Djokovic will obliterate the overachiever Ferrer, who got into the ATP clay finals, only because the top guys were MIA or in a funk.

    Let's face it, guys like Ferrer, always lose to the likes of Fed, Nadal, Djoker, Delpo, Murray etc..
     
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  22. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    I have not been impressed that much with Novak on clay this year, nowhere near as much as the hard court events. He will definitely not win Madrid. His best chance is Rome if Nadal is fatigued.
     
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  23. Heracles

    Heracles Banned

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    Ferrer is 3-4 against Djokovic (3-0 on clay), 3-3 against Murray (3-0 on clay) and 2-2 against Del Potro. But he has never beaten Federer that's right.
     
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  24. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    I agree. Djokovic will beat Ferrer. Ferrer isnt competitive with any of the top guys, except Nadal in his pre prime years on hard courts only.
     
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  25. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    Murray sucks on clay so no surprise Ferrer beats him there. Ferrer is good enough on hard courts and clay to do well against most of the top guys if it is their worst surface- Murray on clay, Nadal on hard courts. Except for Federer who he is useless against everywhere. Djokovic's worst surface is grass, but of course Ferrer would still lose to him there, in the past you are right Ferrer has made inroads on clay but I doubt it continuing. We will see though.
     
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  26. Heracles

    Heracles Banned

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    Ferrer best surface is clay. It's just in RG that he is failing for whatever reason.
     
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  27. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    I think Ferrer is pretty equal on all of hard courts, clay, even indoors. His only weak surface is grass, he doesnt have one clear best surface. How well he does against top players depends alot on where they are worse, he isnt good enough to beat any of them on their best surface. It is surprising he does that well against Djokovic on clay considering that isnt a bad surface for Djokovic. I dont remember when all the matches were though.
     
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  28. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    I think the best of 5 sets format is a factor in that. Ferrer has to work very hard in his matches because he doesn't really have a big weapon in his game.

    Ferrer has won a tournament on grass, 2008 's-Hertogenbosch.
     
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  29. dominikk1985

    dominikk1985 Legend

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    take muurya of that list. he is very talented and I believe he can win a slam, but unlike nadal/federer/djokovic who never loose against guys ranked lower than 50 the pale brit can also loose against anyone. definitely not as consistent as the top3.
     
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  30. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Here's their head-to-head record:

    Novak Djokovic 5-4 David Ferrer
    2004 Bucharest R16: David Ferrer def. Novak Djokovic (4-6, 6-4, 6-4)
    2007 Indian Wells QF: Novak Djokovic def. David Ferrer (6-3, 6-4)
    2007 Monte Carlo R16: David Ferrer def. Novak Djokovic (7-5, 6-4)
    2007 US Open SF: Novak Djokovic def. David Ferrer (6-4, 6-4, 6-3)
    2007 Masters Cup RR: David Ferrer def. Novak Djokovic (6-4, 6-4)
    2008 Australian Open QF: Novak Djokovic def. David Ferrer (6-0, 6-3, 7-5)
    2009 Dubai F: Novak Djokovic def. David Ferrer (7-5, 6-3)
    2009 Davis Cup 1R: David Ferrer def. Novak Djokovic (6-3, 6-3, 7-6)
    2010 Beijing F: Novak Djokovic def. David Ferrer (6-2, 6-4)

    Hardcourt: 5-1 to Djokovic
    Clay: 3-0 to Ferrer
    Grass: 0-0
    Carpet: 0-0
    In Slams: 2-0 to Djokovic
     
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  31. big bang

    big bang Hall of Fame

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    thanks for always posting records Mustard!
     
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  32. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    No probs :)
     
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  33. Nadalfan89

    Nadalfan89 Hall of Fame

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    Both finals went to 3 sets and one of them went to a tie break in the third. Don't pretend like Novak gave Nadal a beat down. Now reverse the roles and put Nadal on his favourite surface...

    Nadal wins.
     
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  34. Cassius Clay

    Cassius Clay Banned

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    Let me put it this way:

    Nadal was playing injured in Madrid 2 years ago.
     
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  35. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    Nadal fans should stop whining about nadal losing in 2009 and blaming on injury. He was a beast that year but Fed and Soderling were just better than him that day. Period !
     
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  36. Cassius Clay

    Cassius Clay Banned

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    Yeah, sure, after a 4-hour match he was a beast the day after...

    Cool story bro.

    It was obvious he was injured. When he managed to be healthy, he swept the whole clay season last year.
     
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  37. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    The 4 hrs match between Rafa and Nole in Madrid semifinal was misleading. B/c both players were notoriously wasting time between points. Most of the time was mainly DEAD time. Apparently you have never seen that match.

    He was playing in god mode in his first 3 matches at the FO. Most fans(maybe in you) already handed the trophy, that’s how dominant he was.
     
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  38. tenis1

    tenis1 Banned

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    Nope. He was not injured in that match. He just won MC, Barcelona and Rome, also AO and IW earlier that year. He was in form.

    He lost to Federer in the final because of exhaustion, after playing 4 hours grueling match previous day (the one vs Djokovic we are talking about), but he was not injured.
     
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  39. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly G.O.A.T.

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    ..........​
     
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  40. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    1. Nadal's knee trouble at that time started at the 2008 Paris Indoor tournament, when Nadal retired against Davydenko after being breadsticked in the first set. Nadal was forced to miss Spain's Davis Cup final against Argentina as a result.

    2. Nadal comes back at the start of 2009, getting to the quarter finals of Doha and winning the Australian Open for his 6th major. Nadal then plays Rotterdam and has a series of tough 3-set matches. During the Rotterdam final against Murray, Nadal gets a bad knee injury during the second set. Nadal still manages to win that second set but gets bagelled in the third set.

    3. Nadal returns less than 4 weeks later for Spain's home Davis Cup tie against Serbia on clay. Nadal straight sets both Tipsarevic and Djokovic. Nadal then plays and wins Indian Wells. Nadal confirmed later in 2009 that he had began to feel pain in his knees at Indian Wells, and that the pain gradually increased over the weeks and months afterwards. Nadal didn't play well in Miami, despite getting to the quarter finals and blowing a double break final set lead against del Potro.

    4. Nadal plays well in Monte Carlo, but is challenged by Murray in the semi finals and is pushed extremely hard by Djokovic in the final. Nadal wins both Barcelona and Rome without dropping a set, although the matches are tougher than the scorelines suggest, especially the Rome final against Djokovic. It is in Madrid that we see the first signs of trouble. In Nadal's quarter final against Verdasco, his mobility is poor, considerably below his usual standard. Nadal has to come back from 0-4 down in the second set to win it 7-5. Then there's that 4 hour, 3 minute match against Djokovic in the semi finals, which is brutal to watch. Neither player seems the same again for the rest of the year. Federer comfortably wins the final 6-4, 6-4 against Nadal.

    5. Just before the French Open started, Nadal loses a 1-set exhibition match at Roland Garros to the then world number 109, Brian Dabul. Dabul won 7-5. Nadal is very sluggish in his first round match against Marcos Daniel, struggling to win all 3 sets but gets the job done. In his second round match against Teymuraz Gabashvili, there is an improvement but still WAY below the sort of standard we had seen during his amazing 2008 French Open. Nadal suddenly looks back to his old self in his third round match against Lleyton Hewitt and wins comfortably in straight sets. Then comes the match against Robin Soderling, where one of the biggest upsets in tennis history occurs. Soderling, in his first fourth round match at a slam, beats the king of clay in 4 sets, handing Nadal his only French Open loss to date.

    6. Nadal goes back to Majorca and withdraws from Queen's Club. Nadal practices on grass the week before Wimbledon and loses exhibitions against both Hewitt and Wawrinka at the Hurlington Club. Nadal then withdraws from Wimbledon and Spain's next Davis Cup tie and he doesn't return until Montreal.

    All of these points does not change the fact that Nadal was beaten at the 2009 French Open. Tennis is all about who can win that particular match at that particular time, and Soderling was better than Nadal on the day of the 31st May 2009. To say that Nadal wasn't injured, however, is just ludicrous in the extreme. Nadal pulled out of his Queen's Club and Wimbledon defences, for goodness sakes! Are we supposed to believe that Nadal skipped the grass-court season because he was in a sulk over losing the French Open title?
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2011
    #40
  41. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    You clearly didn't watch those matches, because Nadal was only in "God" mode against Hewitt in the third round. He was not at 2008 level, that was obvious.
     
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  42. TheTruth

    TheTruth G.O.A.T.

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    Awesome post. A great blow-by-blow account.
     
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  43. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    Try to be reasonable, ok?

    Does he has to be in the same level as in 2008, and if not he has a legitimate excuse for his loss? Come on!...no one said he was better than in 2008 but the fact remain is he was in his prime. He had already won W and AO, there’s no reason to question his ability. Remember, he lost to Fed in 2007 Hamburg(got bagel!), but he end up winning the FO that year. Also, 2009 he was a better player than in 2005 when he was a 1D player, but still won the FO that year. And don’t get started with “you didn’t watch the match”. 2009 FO the clay surface just happened to be playing really fast. The big hitters with big serve excel, not just Robin himself. With Robin playing great combined with a faster surface, it was good enough for Nadal getting upset. As you know, winning streak has to end someday. Did Fed fans ever said Nadal’s win over Fed in 2006 Dubai was a fluke when he ended Roger’s hc winning streak? No. It had to end somehow. I bet you had Nadal won the FO in 2009 there wouldn’t be any talk about injury. He was on course in winning the FO and everyone bank on it, only the minute when he lost to Robin was the beginning of INJURY story that flooded the internet faster than the death of Obama Bin Laden !

    I get so tired of the people calling Robin’s win was a fluke. Just like the same idiot(Thundervolley) keep repeating Sharapova humbling Serena was also a fluke.
     
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  44. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    I never said Soderling's win was a "fluke". I've said before that tennis is all about beating your opponent during that particular match, whatever shape both players are in. Soderling was better than Nadal during the match and he won. End of story.

    A question for you, TMF. Are you suggesting that Nadal was not injured around that time? If so, why did he skip the grass-court season? Some sort of prolonged sulk, or what?
     
    #44
  45. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    For sure that Nadal was really down after the early exit b/c not only losing FO, but set the record for 5 straight FO. You know that Nadal hate to lose and he has a lot pride and standard. He lost his confident besides still trying to recover the loss. Also, had he was able to beat Wawrinka and Hewitt on grass before SW19, who knows if he might decide to play. I think his lack of confident hurts him further into the year....some say it stretch even up to early 2010.
     
    #45
  46. ibbi

    ibbi Professional

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    This is truly brilliant reasoning. Truly brilliant.

    What do you say when somebody counters with the fact that Nadal is also a better player now than he was 2 years ago?
     
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  47. tenis1

    tenis1 Banned

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    It is as brilliant as saying that Novak has no chance in Madrid because he beat Nadal in IW and Miami in close matches.
    My post was made to make that point.

    Brilliant fail in comprehension from you though. Truly briliant.
     
    #47
  48. ibbi

    ibbi Professional

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    So someone said something stupid, so you said something even more stupid back?

    I don't think I failed to comprehend what you said, I think it was pretty clear. You said Djokovic can win because he's a better player than he used to be. You totally ignored any improvements to Nadal's own game.

    That makes infinitely less sense as a rational argument than people saying that Djokovic was pushed twice to 3 sets by Nadal on his favourite surface, and Nadal's least favourite just a few weeks ago, so his chances of beating the world number 1 on his favourite surface are not so great.
     
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  49. Cassius Clay

    Cassius Clay Banned

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    I don't think you even believe what you are saying. It was obvious he was injured.
     
    #49
  50. tenis1

    tenis1 Banned

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    Well whose argument makes more sense and is rational now ;)
     
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