Now 4-1 head to head: Stain in Federer´s legacy?

Discussion in 'Pro Match Results and Discussion' started by Oscar, Apr 23, 2006.

  1. Oscar

    Oscar New User

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    I want to hear your opinions about it. I don´t remember such situation: Number 1 in the world who dominates everyone else, just can´t beat the number 2 player. How is that possible? I think Nadal is in Federer´s head. There are no excuses here, the head to head is clear 4-1 and all the victories in different surfaces. How does it affect Federer´s legacy? IMHO a lot, and i am a big Roger´s fan.
     
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  2. ctbmar

    ctbmar Semi-Pro

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    Hewitt was 6-2 against Federer and Federer turned it around...Nalbandian was also 5-0 against him, now he won the back 4 and lost 1 injured, making it 4-6 in favour of Nalbandian...Federer just needs time to solve this Nadal and all his gimmicks.
     
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  3. Oricus

    Oricus Rookie

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    Well he had a bad run against Nalbandian for a while. It could be the matchup, it could be the surface, or it could be that Nadal really is that good of player.

    Federer seems like he's getting close and this is maybe the step he needs. In the end does it really matter what was done today? If Federer wins the French, then this match seems insignificant.

    But in all honesty, I hope Fed instead of being angry builds off this performance. He knows he can beat Nadal, and Nadal probably knows that as well. The difference in this match was a few points, it was so close to going to 5. Fed has to like that, maybe he gets him the next time. I hope as a Federer Fan that he does get Nadal the next time.

    If the trend continues then well, that really blows but you know, atleast Federer has something to work for
     
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  4. scharlotte

    scharlotte New User

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    answer is simple - nadal is just better! so why he isn't nr.1? because he's very young and he just need time, work etc. to reach it;)
     
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  5. Thomas Tung

    Thomas Tung Rookie

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    I agree, Oricus. Fed to me was doing the right thing late in the 4th set by selectively working his way towards the net, it threw Nadal off considerably. Roger can't let some great passes by Nadal faze him, he needs to not let Nadal get into a comfortable rhythm, needs to mix it up more ... hopefully he'll meet up with Roche later on and they'll have a talk about that.
     
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  6. vive le beau jeu !

    vive le beau jeu ! G.O.A.T.

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    exactly ! :cool:
     
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  7. tennis_nerd22

    tennis_nerd22 Hall of Fame

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    ya it will all happen over time. but today was definitely in fed's head.
     
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  8. Turning Pro

    Turning Pro Professional

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    its should be 5-0 guys
     
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  9. ctbmar

    ctbmar Semi-Pro

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    **** off with people saying it should be 5-0...a win is a win...even when you comeback, it is even more valuable...it should be 4-2 instead.
     
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  10. ACE of Hearts

    ACE of Hearts G.O.A.T.

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    Its bad simple as that.As a Fed fan, right now Nadal is in his head.He makes alot of errors each time they play, just look at all the matches, his backhand starts missing, sometimes his forehand, dont know if its the heavy topspin but i dont know what he will do.

    This reminds me of Borg and Mac.
     
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  11. Turning Pro

    Turning Pro Professional

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    **** off yourself loser.with a name like yourself,it sounds as if you just bashed the keyboard in fustration.PMS anyone?
     
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  12. Turning Pro

    Turning Pro Professional

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    Why should it be 4-2,where is the logic in that?Pre-schooler
     
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  13. Andres

    Andres G.O.A.T.

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    5-0= 5 + 0 = 5 matches
    4-2= 4 + 2 = 6 matches.

    They played 5 times.
    So... ehmm...:cool:

    It's all said :)
     
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  14. vive le beau jeu !

    vive le beau jeu ! G.O.A.T.

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    it's because roger's win accounted for 2 ;)
     
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  15. Andres

    Andres G.O.A.T.

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    Ahhh, okey :)
    Thanks for clarifying that for me :)
     
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  16. hyperwarrior

    hyperwarrior Professional

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    Sampras has a bad record VS Krajicek, Bruguera... it doesn't stop him to be great.
    I expect the same for Fed.
     
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  17. VamosRafa

    VamosRafa Hall of Fame

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    I think Federer gets style points. :D
     
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  18. loubapache

    loubapache Professional

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    for using a midsize flame, LOL.
     
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  19. !Tym

    !Tym Hall of Fame

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    Exactly, it's just a match-up. So what? I really don't take ONE single match up, bad. I mean Clement recently beat Nadal and had plenty of chances this tournie as well. Does that mean he's at least the equal of Federer? Of course not.

    People don't realize how good everyone is at this level. It's like with fighting, style matchups DO make a difference, nevertheless, just because you have a favorable style matchup doesn't mean you afford a mistake. One mistake, and KAPOW. At this leve, EVERYONE'S got their own weapons and ways to beat you. It's just that Federer's game right now doesn't match up with Nadal's as best it could. Much of Federer's game is based on mixing up spins, angles, and paces. The problem is that 1) Nadal is fast enough to chase much of that down, 2) speed's not enough. Hewitt has match up problems now with Federer, simply because NO ONE can retrieve forever. The difference is that Hewitt's main kind of ball is medium trajectory, medium spin, medium pace. The problem when facing Federer now is that this kind of ball sits right in Federer's IDEAL STRIKE ZONE. This allows him to sit back and relax and do whatever he wants with the ball in his comfort zone until Hewitt eventually capitulates. Prior, Federer didn't have enough confidence in his ability to keep the ball in play and wasn't nearly as mentally stable and calm which is why he struggled with Hewitt.

    People need to realize just how critical the IDEAL STRIKE ZONE is at this level, every player has a slightly different one. This is why Bruguera is a bad matchup against Kuerten, because his balls don't get up on someone as gangly and tall as Kuerten who ALSO uses a western grip...yet Kuerten matches up worse against Kafalenikov or Medvedev...who if not mentally weak...you'd see why Kafelnikov was not spooked by Kuerten at all and said that the only reason he beat him was because he let him, that when his head was screwed on straight he was dominating him....the US Open match is a perfect example. Kafelnikov FEEDS off pace, more than that he's tall, physically robust, and Kuerten's combination of topspin and pace, yet not over amplified topspin like Bruguera's sat right in Kafelnikov's strike zone. Kafelnikov had the perfect body build, height, AND stroking technique to handle Kuerten's style of shots and REDIRECT his pace/topspin and use it against him. YET, right after that Kuerten quarter at the Open, Kafelnikov got SPANKED by Hewitt even worse. Kafelnikov was like a GIMME matchup for Hewitt's game. And so on and so forth, just how it goes.

    YET, just because there is a favorable style matchup, when you're talking elite players, EVERYONE'S a shark, EVERYONE'S got teeth, as they say about maximum security prison with the worst of the worst. Everyone there earned their way their, is their for a reason, there are no flukes. You blink, your neck is slit...style matchups don't matter then. As Arazi once said, "everyone knows the game 80% mental at this level," that "EVERYONE knows how to play at this level." In other words, if you're not all there, style matchups won't matter, anyone and everyone, particularly true top ten caliber guys, can and will sock you.

    Btw, to finish up on feder vs. nadal, the second thing is that Nadal's topspin, no one hits more, as such the ball's bounding out of Federer's strike zone making him uncomfortable. It's much harder to apply whatever spin, trajectory, pace, etc. he wants to the ball like he does against Hewitt's shots, but Nadal's shot simply make that much more difficult and pressing.
     
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  20. jackson vile

    jackson vile Legend

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    The thing is that Nadal is not afraid of Roger so instead of being on the defensive like all other people against Roger, Nadal does not just give it to him.

    Also Nadal knows what he is doing.
     
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  21. sotua

    sotua Rookie

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    It's all about matchups

    Nadal is a really good player - though I think that in this case it's (also) the matchup. Nadal's game has everything that makes Federer's game less effective, and in ridiculous quantities. Footspeed that makes most of Federer's inverted FHs still in play instead of outright winners - and with Fed positioned off the court. High bouncing lefty spin to his backhand, which is his weaker wing (*). Unwavering concentration, which can kill Fed since he usually wanders off for a couple of games or so.

    And this is Nadal's best surface. All of their meetings happen at grounds that are favorable to Nadal (slow HC or clay) because he just isn't getting through to Federer on his best surfaces (fast HC or grass).

    But, in the end, it's all about achievements - nobody cares that Krajicek retired with a 6-4 lead over Sampras, and it was once 6-2. What people remember is that Krajicek won one wimbledon and Sampras won... well, you know ;). Nadal is 0-2 against Blake but nobody ever will tell you that Blake is a better player - it's all about matchups. Nadal owns Federer at the moment, but having a 7-slam winner's number isn't a substitute for winning the 7 slams yourself.

    (*) This is why I want to see Safin vs Nadal - I want to see what does Nadal do with a guy who just loves high balls to his backhand ;)
     
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  22. vive le beau jeu !

    vive le beau jeu ! G.O.A.T.

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    i'm curious to see that also...
     
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  23. ta11geese3

    ta11geese3 Semi-Pro

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    With safin so wacko though, I don't know if that'll ever happen. Not to mention there's a decent chance that if it ever did, he'll go berserk and throw away the game >_<
     
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  24. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    Nadal is on his way to taking over is it not obvious?Fed might stay rated as #1 because nadal has not played very long+it will take some time.


    But nadal is only 19,i cant imagine him in a couple more years.He will be the one to stain feds legacy.
     
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  25. superman1

    superman1 Legend

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    The record will turn around eventually. The problem is the two only meet in finals, and if Nadal is in the finals, it's going to be on a surface he likes. Federer will eventually relax a little more in their matches and make more of his shots. I get the feeling he's constantly rattled against Nadal because he has to hit so many more shots than usual. But at least now Federer knows what it's like to constantly lose to somebody. I'm sure the rest of the players are enjoying this.
     
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  26. knasty131

    knasty131 Professional

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    all i have to say is kryptonite...there is always one thing that hurts the best...
     
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  27. Kalin

    Kalin Professional

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    Have Nadal and Safin never played against each other before?

    As for the question, as many here have said, Nadal's record against Fed is a big feather is Nadal's hat; not necessarily such a big stain on Fed's resume. If, and that's quite an 'if', they finish their careers with a similar number of GS titles; weeks No. 1 etc then the head-to-head record will mean a lot more than it does now.

    Having said that; I am pretty sure there are few things Fed wants more than to even that head-to-head record a bit...:)
     
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  28. sotua

    sotua Rookie

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    The way I see it, if they continue this way Nadal will rule the first half of the year (clay and slow HC) and Federer will own the latter half (fast HC and grass). Nadal's running just won't do at Wimbledon unless they allow soccer cleats. Federer won't have an good answer for high topspin to his bh. In both cases, it would mean a pretty big makeover of their respective games to remedy those situations - and why would they mess with what makes them successful? (Just like Sampras considered a different racquet for the FO, but why mess with the game that allowed him to rule Wimbledon and the USO?)

    What this means: bad luck, rest of the tour - you ain't seeing any slam titles anytime soon ;)
     
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  29. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    I keep hearing the record will turn around,+ it is a problem they only meet in the finals.I thought fed never loses in finals,oh thats right fed didnt used to lose in finals.

    Thats when he is beating all the rest of the weak mens field,now he has some competition+ he cant handle it.Did i hear this right that the best of all time has to relax better when he is playing a 1 dimensional 19 year old.
     
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  30. scotus

    scotus Legend

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    It's a clash of styles that has always been obvious in other sports like boxing. Certain boxers, usually southpaws, will give certain champions a great deal of trouble, even though they do not fare well against other boxers whom the champions have easily defeated.
     
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  31. superman1

    superman1 Legend

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    When the head-to-head does turn around, tlm, you'll have something to think about. You could go match by match:

    1st match: Miami, Nadal wins 6-3 6-3. Federer was not feeling well.

    2nd match: Miami, Federer wins 2-6, 6-7, 7-6, 6-3, 6-1. Nadal probably should have won, but lost due to fatigue.

    3rd match: Roland Garros, Nadal wins 3-6, 6-4, 4-6, 3-6. Nadal says Federer was tougher in this match than he was in Monte Carlo. Federer says it was the worst semifinal he's played, and the darkness frustrated him. Nadal still won fair and square, but still, it's on clay so that's expected.

    4th match: Dubai, Nadal wins 2-6, 6-4, 6-4. Federer wins more total points, dominates in first set, makes some mistakes and gets broken.

    5th match: Monte Carlo, Nadal wins 6-2, 6-7, 6-3, 7-6. It's on clay, so it's expected.

    It's too early to say that Nadal has Federer's number. 2 matches were on clay, in 1 Federer was sick, in 1 Federer won more points and probably played better overall, and in 1 Federer won because of better fitness.
     
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  32. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    This is the kind of reasoning that only a fed fan can understand.Fed was not feeling well did you talk to him before the match?Fed played the worst semi final ever okay,think nadal had anything to do with that?

    Now in dubai fed won more total points+ what do they give you for that?+Do they also give you something special for dominating the first set?Let me get this right fed played better overall but he still lost the match,that makes perfect sense, i guess to somebody.

    And finally the last whooping was on clay,i thought fed was the best of all time,seems like he would still be able to win on clay.

    This is the same b.s. that all fed fans come up with. If fed turns the meetings with nadal around i will give him credit,but untill then it is plain+simple Nadal 4-1 over Fed.

    These numbers dont lie+they cant be twisted around to make fed look good.I play a lot of matches+ if there is someone i play 5 times+ he beats me 4 times i dont claim to be better than him.
     
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  33. superman1

    superman1 Legend

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    I'm a fan of both guys, dumb-dumb. Why does everything need to be so damn polarized? I'm just saying that you can't just look at head-to-head and immediately say that Nadal is superior to Federer. Only mindless fools (are you one of them?) immediately reach conclusions like that. It just doesn't work that way, things are not black and white. Someone had to lose the match. If Nadal lost, other mindless fools would say he sucks and that he isn't really the king of clay.
     
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  34. Nictu

    Nictu New User

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    Federer was recovering from a sunstroke he suffered at the beginning of the tournament but to his credit, he never used that as an excuse and told the media that Nadal was "that good". I bet he knew...
     
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  35. jackson vile

    jackson vile Legend

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    Get over yourself and Fed, it is not just as if he lost one game, he lost a series of games with people like to making an excuse each and every time.

    And if anyone made an excuse for Nadal then people like you would freak out, Fed lost multiple times end of story and there is no chaning that, it is forever in the history books, end of story
     
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  36. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    Now it was sunstroke,hey we have a new one there is a endless supply of fed excuses.It never has anything to do with nadal.
     
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  37. Hal

    Hal Rookie

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    The reason that the head to head is lopsided is because Nadal never reaches the finals (when Fed is in the draw) on grass or faster hardcourt. He only seems to make the finals on the clay or slow HC, where it looks like he currently has the edge over Roger. However, where is Nadal for the other finals when Roger is sitting there waiting for him? I didn't see Nadal in the Wimbly finals last year, or the US Open, the Masters Cup, or the Austrailian open, either. When (if) Nadal starts making finals on courts that faster, we'll start seeing Fed change the tides. In the meantime, Fed will continue to be waiting for Nadal in the finals (whether he's there or not).
     
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  38. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    Hal makes some good points about nadal not making it to more finals.I dont see him making it to any finals on grass.

    But he should be getting there more on the hc.I think he is not consistent enough yet.He is only 19 so lets see in the future if he keeps improving he should be there more.

    As far as i am concerned i want to see him play more on the hc,with a little more time on the hc he will be in more finals.I am not so sure fed wants to see him there though.
     
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  39. Nictu

    Nictu New User

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    Calm down. I never said I didn't agree with that. I remember a very bad call against Nadal in the match Federer won and that is often used as an excuse for Nadal's only loss against Federer. I was just telling what I recall. Don't think everybody jumps on excuses because they like a player more the the other.

    The H2H is 4-1, no asterisks.
     
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  40. FEDEXP

    FEDEXP Professional

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    Oh give it a break, a stain has to do with losing virginity.
     
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