Now they even say the ref asked Henin ....

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by Michael Haller, Jan 31, 2006.

  1. Michael Haller

    Michael Haller Banned

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    .... whether she had raised her hand (at the "hand incident" in the Henin-Serena FO 03 match).

    Will these lies never end?

    What next?

    Henin shot JFK ... ?
     
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  2. Fee

    Fee Legend

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    The ref did ask her, and she shook her head and said 'just play on' or something like that. There are plenty of tapes of the whole thing, its not a big mystery.
     
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  3. vllockhart

    vllockhart Rookie

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    Her not owning up to it on her own is as bad as outright denying it. Did she own up to it afterwards either? I don't think so.
     
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  4. Skppr05

    Skppr05 Semi-Pro

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    AO is over. What HH did was wrong but jeez let her live her life, she's still really good at tennis
     
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  5. Raj

    Raj New User

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    This is in the past -- time to move on.


    ~r
     
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  6. Max G.

    Max G. Hall of Fame

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    Iunno, when I remember watching it, I remember the ref not "asking" anyone anything. He looked at Henin, Henin stood there, and he made a call. I didn't think any words were exchanged.
     
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  7. rfprse

    rfprse Professional

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    I don't remember watching the ref asking JHH about it. Rather, S Williams wanted the ref to ask jhh and bring jhh in the discussion, while arguing about it with the ref but there was no verbal exchange btw the ref and jhh.
    However, I remember jhh talking to herself (somewhat looking annoyed ;)) something like "just play", watching the discussion btw the ref and Williams.

    I don't think the behavior of Jhh in the incident was ok in terms of sportmanship, but Williams's accusing her as "lying and fabricating" in tears does not make much sense (let alone just following the cue from her and certain media) either.
     
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  8. The tennis guy

    The tennis guy Hall of Fame

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    I don't know what tape you are watching. Go back watch it again. The posters below you got it right. The ref was talking to Serena, looked at JHH very quickly, ruled second serve. There was never any exchange between ref and JHH.

    I don't agree with what she did. However, get your fact straight, give it a rest!
     
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  9. 156MPHserve

    156MPHserve Professional

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    May I ask what happened exactly?
     
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  10. Max G.

    Max G. Hall of Fame

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    The score was 4-2, 30-0 on Serena's serve, I think it was in the third set.

    Justine was ready to return serve, but then put her hand up (as if to halt play/ask for her to wait) just as Serena was serving the ball. (Either just a bit before, or during, the start of her motion - don't remember exactly.)

    Serena missed the serve, and thought she should get another first serve because Henin putting her hand up had distracted her during the service motion.

    However, the umpire did not agree, and said that Serena gets a second serve and not a first since she had hit (and missed) the serve.

    Henin, thoughout Serena's discussion with the umpire, didn't say anything.
     
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  11. Lee

    Lee Guest

    #11
  12. Noelle

    Noelle Hall Of Fame

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    I wish there was a big tournament coming up so we could all just move along. We all keep saying the same things again and again on both sides of the argument. It's a bit like Groundhog Day.
     
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  13. Shabazza

    Shabazza Legend

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    Indeed!!
     
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  14. 35ft6

    35ft6 Legend

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    Indeed!!
     
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  15. arky-tennis

    arky-tennis Semi-Pro

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    Indeed (10char)
     
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  16. 35ft6

    35ft6 Legend

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    HER: They say we're young and we don't know
    We won't find out until we grow
    HIM: Well I don't know if all that's true
    'Cause you got me, and baby I got you

    HIM: Babe
    BOTH: I got you babe
    I got you babe

    HER: They say our love won't pay the rent
    Before it's earned, our money's all been spent
    HIM: I guess that's so, we don't have a pot
    But at least I'm sure of all the things we got

    ,,,
     
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  17. rfprse

    rfprse Professional

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    Yeah, I agree. However, in this case, it is not a matter of arguments of which one can choose a side. It's just checking the basic fact.
     
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  18. The tennis guy

    The tennis guy Hall of Fame

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    Yeah, that ugly, little, lonely kid has 4 grand slam titles while you can only be here pouting. Who is more pathetic?
     
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  19. rlbjr

    rlbjr Rookie

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    Haller, you are trully an idiot. The UMPIRE (not ref) did ask her. She did not say no, she did not say yes. She shrugged her shoulders and simply didn't answer the question either way, forcing the umpire to decide on something he did not see. She had the opportunity to do the right thing, as virtually every player I know would do, and she chose not to. Sound familiar? Chance to do the right thing, even though there is no personal benefit? No character, no class.
     
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  20. Max G.

    Max G. Hall of Fame

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    From what I remember, no words were exchanged. The umpire did not ask her anything, and she didn't say anything to him.
     
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  21. The tennis guy

    The tennis guy Hall of Fame

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    You are an idiot. The umpire didn't ask her, go watch again.

    I don't agree with what JHH did. However, you are an idiot who try to twist the fact.
     
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  22. Noelle

    Noelle Hall Of Fame

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    I got you, babe
    I got you...
     
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  23. Rodeo

    Rodeo Guest

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  24. rlbjr

    rlbjr Rookie

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    I have the tape. I have watched it, and again. Serena tells the umpire that Henin held up her hand, the umpire says "what?", Serena repeats that HH held up her hand. The umpire says "I didn't see that", turns, looks at Henin (who heard and knew everything being discussed) with an inquiring look. Henin looks him in the face, shrugs her shoulders in a 'who, me?' fashion, and looks back at Serena while resuming her ready position. The umpire did not get the chance to rule on the question. Due to the rising noise and unease of the crowd Serena chose to go ahead with her second serve. No, NOT because she was wrong, just prudent. The crowd had become very unruly due to two line call reversals that went Serenas way in those two games. If you don't see the issues in that exchange, then you are truly obtuse. Now, idiot, go look at the tape yourself.
     
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  25. scoot

    scoot Rookie

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    I cant believe people are this hung up about a player holding up her damn hand in a tense match! It was probably just a nervous tic. Get over it!
     
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  26. Max G.

    Max G. Hall of Fame

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    So you confirm what I was saying - no words were exchanged between Henin and the umpire.

    In the middle of a Grand Slam match, with the crowd being loud, "expecting Henin to overhear what umpire is saying to her opponent, then giving her and 'inquiring look' and interpreting a shrug as a 'no'" does not, by any stretch of the imagination, count as any sort of exchange.

    1) With all the noise in the crowd, it's not even certain that Henin knew what the umpire was saying to Serena and vice versa. (Especially since English probably isn't her first language - I know that personally, when my mind is working in one language, I'm not going to understand something I overhear in another it takes me a little bit of time to switch gears mentally)
    2) I don't expect Henin to be a mind-reader and guess that when the umpire gave her an "inquiring look" he really meant "did you raise your hand" as opposed to, say "did you hear what Serena's saying" or "could you come over here" or "are you ready to receive" or who knows what else.
    3) I don't expect the umpire to assume that a shrug means "no I didn't" and not "what's going on over there" or "what was that?" or "what're you looking at me for?" or "am I going to be receiving a first or second serve now?" or "I don't know what's going on" or who knows what else.

    There is a reason we have this thing called LANGUAGE. It's so that people don't have to read meaning into "hidden exchanges" which may or may not have happened.
     
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  27. Deuce

    Deuce Banned

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    You very much want to present facts to support your position - but in the above quote, you commit the error of mixing fact with your own personal perception (a perception which seems to possess an inherent bias).
     
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