NTRP 0 to 5 in a year? Is that possible?

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by Stergios, Mar 2, 2013.

  1. Cheetah

    Cheetah Hall of Fame

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    A 4.0 will not beat a 5.0 on any day. nope.
     
  2. gameboy

    gameboy Hall of Fame

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    A legit 4.0 is not going to beat a legit 5.0. It is pointless even to discuss it.

    I am 3.5 computer rated player and I am saying going to 5.0 is impossible. I have watched a lot of Div 1 college tennis, and there is no way in hell any 1st year player is going to compete with those guys, even if one is athletically gifted.

    We haven't even seen the OP beat even a 3.0 player yet, even though he is months into the project. Hitting against a ball machine or coach is NOTHING like playing against a real player. Why don't we hold off on whether the OP is making real progress or not until we see some matches?
     
  3. Stergios

    Stergios Rookie

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    Hi Stevo Karlovic,

    I appreciate your support as well as your very encouraging piece of writing.

    I'll keep you posted on my progress and I'll give my best.

    Cheers,

    Stergios
     
  4. pushing_wins

    pushing_wins Hall of Fame

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    for a person of avg intelligence and avg atheticism, a phd would be than easier 5.0.
     
  5. The Meat

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    Don't go there, there was a very similar debate a while ago. It did not put people on here on good terms.
     
  6. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    short answer again, no chance.....
    you can HIT like a 5.0, but not play like a 5.0 in one year.....
     
  7. creyes

    creyes New User

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    I'd like to know what counts as "Zero"

    I had legitimately Zero tennis experience before 2.5 months ago (i'm 23) does that make me a "0" than?

    I ask because I started taking lessons and playing 3-4 times a week for a few hours each session, and my coach said I should self-rank at 3.5 for my first tournament if I want to win some rounds or 4.0 if I want to get better

    Gist of question, is that 0-3.5 in 3 months or is that starting at 3.5 because I'm an in-shape athletic person?
     
  8. pushing_wins

    pushing_wins Hall of Fame

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    that was me. any new thoughts or insights?
     
  9. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Lots of players consider a beginner as a "2.5".
    That might be where tournament play begins, to allow beginners a chance to compete in organized competition.
    Most players after they can hit the ball 7 times without a miss call themselves "3.5"
    In the UnitedStates, the average level of experience in "3.5" level tennis would be somewhere between 2 to 15 years, the most being around 3=5 years of tennis.
    A good high school player on the top of his team might be 3.5-4.5. A recruited junior might be 4.5 to 5.0, with a sprinkling of phenom's competitive with 5.5's.
     
  10. Stergios

    Stergios Rookie

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    Hi Creyes,

    Technically, there is no "0" on the NTRP playing levels.

    In my case, I've used "0" to better illustrate someone that had no prior experience to Tennis.

    You can find the playing levels here.

    Stergios
     
  11. creyes

    creyes New User

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    I know the rating levels buti was talking about in terms of this project what constitutes a zero. Also how much more difficult is 4.0 -> 5.0 as opposed to 2.5 -> 4.0
     
  12. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    As usual, depends.
    A good athlete can blow thru 3 and 3.5 in a couple of years, then either get stalled at 4.0 or blow thru with superior athleticism.
    A bad athlete can take years to get to 3.5, but thru deligence, determination, grit, and tunnel vision, make it to 4.5 eventually.
    We all learn differently, our coaching and peers, competitors and hitting partners are all different, so progression is not a simple graph availible to everyone.
    And the style you play makes a difference. If you practice hitting solid fundamentals from the beginning, used them and adopted them always, it's possible to hit like a 4.5 in a couple of years.
    BUT, if you didn't use great solid strokes, but was mentally tough, determined at all costs, and possess some smarts and speed, you could PLAY at the 4.0 level in a couple of years.
    Different paths, intertwining, separating, and converging.
     
  13. vil

    vil Semi-Pro

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    To the initial OP's question, I think it's simply way too abitious. You can definitely progress quite a bit in one year technically but there's more to it. In practice you can hit like a champ but in a match play (under pressure) it's a different ball game. You need time and experience to comfortably grasp all type of players. In one year? :confused:
     
  14. looseleftie

    looseleftie Rookie

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    Hey Stergios,

    Hows it going?? Was wondering if u would be playing in an organised competition format over next month or two.. Was reading LeeD comment's re you may hit like a 5.0, but not match play like one.. Kinda true...

    I remember reading from u that u were developing your game first, but to be honest think u should get some game time going.. Regardless of win or loss, learn how to play..

    I've had a huge break from tennis, from 18-39yr, then stopped and started for a few months here and there over last 4 years, now at 43yr, going full on at it... I have been playing a close friend, I use to smash him when I was 18yr, now he smashes me (generally 6-2 or 6-3), anyway, I'm learning or relearning , how to play a match... You must look into this!!!

    Love your work mate, keep going, and send some videos in.
    Cheers
     
  15. Stergios

    Stergios Rookie

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    Hi Looseleftie,

    Thank you for your interest in me and comment.

    I did have doubts as well for not playing with others. But, luckily it starts to pay off. I'm getting closer and closer to my monthly goals.

    I'm working on my consistency and footwork at the moment.

    In order to play with others I need some extra work on my serves. I left them aside for a while since a sore tendon prevented me from practicing it.
    But I'm back on it for a hole week now and it keeps improving.

    It's something that I can not guarantee but you will see me playing during the summer.

    I'm also looking for oportunities to record some videos. Although it gets all my free time away I'm trying to get in a pace and keep making them. Will see..:)

    All the best,

    Stergios

    PS: If something doesn't make sense or if I missed something, I apologise. Too tired, time to rest.
     
  16. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

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    Hi Stergios. Get some rest. Very important. I've taken a couple of weeks off to just unwind, party, relax, etc. Will be back to it tomorrow or Friday. Cheers!
     
  17. Stergios

    Stergios Rookie

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    Hi Tom,

    I'm glad you're enjoying life that way! I also took some time off during Saturday and Sunday, ate lots of pizza and ice cream :).

    Back on schedule now. Although the weather has it's own interpretation of summer these days. See what happened just after I finished today's practice.

    All the best,

    Stergios

    PS: I'm following up on your videos and you're looking great! Good job! Keep the practice going.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2013
  18. newpball

    newpball Legend

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    It is much more difficult.

    Getting a tennis rating is like a zero sum game, if you gain points you have to take it away from others.

    From level 3.5 on the number of available slots work like a pyramid. There will always be far less level 5.0 players than 4.5 players.

    The bulk of the players are between 3.0 and 4.0 that is the base of the pyramid. Aiming for 5.0 it is very hard because there are very few slots for 5.0 so only a few people will reach this level.
     
  19. newpball

    newpball Legend

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    So uh, how is this 5.0 project coming along? :grin:
     
  20. Stergios

    Stergios Rookie

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    Hi Newpball,

    I'll be updating you soon!

    Have a nice day!

    Stergios
     
  21. DaveTennis84372

    DaveTennis84372 New User

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  22. xFullCourtTenniSx

    xFullCourtTenniSx Hall of Fame

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    Won't happen unless you were off by a magnitude of 10 and meant NTRP of 0.5, in which case, FULLY POSSIBLE since you get 1.0 the instant you pick up a racket.
     
  23. geepeeone

    geepeeone New User

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    I second this. Hey, achieving the shot mechanics of a 5.0 in one year is no joke!
     
  24. DaveTennis84372

    DaveTennis84372 New User

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    I've been down this road.

    I've been down this road. I hired a coach, hit 6 days a week at least a couple of hours every day, and put myself on an incredible fitness plan.

    I even hired an ex-Wimbledon player a couple of times - not that hard in Metro Atlanta, GA - USA.

    My coach (Not Wimbledon) told me to join the local tennis league at the bottom level - which I did.

    I got my butt kicked.

    In practice sessions, my coach (who was on the Penn circuit for a while, played college and of course was in the Juniors) told me that I hit at 4.0 in practice. My teammates wanted me to take Xanax for games because I was so wound up.

    Coach said that I was basically like a ten year old Juniors player - I didn't have the match experience and subsequent mental game.

    In short, I hit really well in practice but choked in matches.

    I was really awesome when I had a 7.0 player feeding me cream puffs - even if I did hit them at 90+ mph with wicked topspin.

    I got my butt kicked by 'C' level (NTRP 3.0 - 3.5 ) pushers.

    And MY goal was to get super great as fast as possible. I didn't have a number in mind, but I was working like I was gonna get to 7.0 in a year.


    My coach gave me a lesson once. I was hitting real fast and hard and he stood there returning balls *plink* ... *plink* ...*plink* ... hardly ANY swing.

    And then, with just a slight gesture, *plink* - winner off to the side because he put me off to the far corner of the deuce court.

    Hitting fast and hard is easy. Placing the ball is a bit harder.

    But figuring out where to put that ball while it's flying at you at 80+MPH and keeping it in the court AND having a strategy ...

    (BTW, watching the US Open the other day was incredible. Serena is a Goddess! I have a man crush on Rafa.)


    I was constantly getting injured.

    I was angry all the time.

    Tennis was NOT fun.

    I burnt out and gave it up for ten years.

    I came back to it.

    I'm playing with 2.5 - 3.5 players and having fun!

    I play tennis for fun, fitness, and social connections. FFS - baby!

    Then I got tennis leg! D'Oh!

    I'll probably be at 3.5 for the rest of my life and I'm OK with that. Big serves mean BIG shoulder problems and BIG medical bills.

    When I stopped trying to be great and started having fun, my pain went away because I didn't kick my own butt in training.

    Tennis is just a game.

    Oh!, and one last thing, most business contacts are below 4.0. Just say'in. (Because to keep your game up takes time and effort. And then there's aging. Many folks move on.)
     
  25. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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    Op is more interested in making videos than tennis. Never gonna happen. Reality sucks. Lol.
     
  26. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    OP is interested in contact with other tennis players, and the IDEA of possibly in the future making a video.
    Making 5.5 is already lost, making 4.5 impossible, and making middle of the road 3.5 a stretch, but definetely possible.
     
  27. keithfival

    keithfival Professional

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    My prognosis is that there is absolutely no way whatsoever that someone only playing for one year could come close to beating a really good, mentally tough 4.5 pusher.
     
  28. newpball

    newpball Legend

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    So, what is the status?
     
  29. GuyClinch

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    This. I think the confusion comes from NTRP's idiotic self rating system. People tend to think NTRP means like well your shots look good - the way you move looks athletic etc etc.

    The think its some kind of 'form' you can achieve. But a better way to look at it is that it means you can beat almost anyone at the game of tennis.

    A 5.0 is going to beat alot of teaching pros. They are going to be able to beat quite a few college players. They are going to beat any member of numerous HS teams. it basically means you are better then most everyone who plays tennis - and there are alot of tennis players.

    The weird thing about tennis is people act like its not a sport. I don't know any 30 something guy who never played hoops who thinks they can dominate anyone the local HS basketball team. Or guys who never played football and think they can walk onto a college program and be a backup quarterback..
     
  30. newpball

    newpball Legend

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    Still waiting.......
     
  31. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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    You will wait till your dead. Guy is still a 2.5 lol.
     
  32. newpball

    newpball Legend

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    I suspect so.

    If you read up on him it is not the first project he abandoned. All that was missing is some contrived explanation as to why the project had to be abandoned. :grin:
     
  33. WildVolley

    WildVolley Legend

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    Seems the guy gave up on the project long ago. The website now has totally unrelated posts. That isn't surprising as it was extremely unrealistic from the start and even he posted a video of his coach mocking his plan.
     
  34. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    You guys are misleading him, there is nobody on this earth who could become a 5.0 player in 1 year. Very few if any could become a 4.0 in a year, I don't care about some of these stories it just does not happen.

    These dreams of going up to 5.0 in even 3 years are just that dreams. Anybody saying otherwise has no idea of what a 5.0 player is. At most clubs I have played at the majority of players are 3.0-3.5 with quite a few 4.0 players. But even at 4.5 the list starts to shrink, then above that is a very small group.

    Plus there are quite a few players that play 1 level up in doubles, to me your real level is only validated in singles. I know a lot of doubles players that would not win very often in singles even if they went down 1 level.
     
  35. GuyClinch

    GuyClinch Hall of Fame

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    The best candiates to hit 5.0 in 1 year would be a pro squash player, or a pro badmington player - or a pro ping pong player, IMHO.

    Some of these guys could do it - but they would already be a 3.5 or 4.0 when they got on the court. I say this because I had a squash pro that was actually a pretty nifty tennis player - but he didn't regularly play..

    Baseball its a possibility as well - good hand eye and likely very good serves with just a bit of practice..Maybe if you started with an athletic pitcher you could find someone who could just blow guys off the court with a big serve.

    But we will never know of course because I don't think any pro athletes are going to give up their sport for an experiment.
     
  36. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

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    I believe Fred Perry was a table tennis champion as well as a tennis champion.
     
  37. gmatheis

    gmatheis Hall of Fame

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    Yes because there aren't any players that are actually good at singles but bad at doubles ... oh wait there are.
     
  38. cjs

    cjs Semi-Pro

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    Nice post. Made me smile.
     
  39. Torres

    Torres Banned

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    That's a great story and well put.
     
  40. dominikk1985

    dominikk1985 Legend

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    maybe if you are lebron james (or another world class athlete) and practice for 3 hours a day with a world class coach:).

    otherwise no, you would do very good to become a 3.5 after one year even that takes a lot of practice (or at least regular practice).
     
  41. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    I never said that there aren't players that are good at singles but bad at doubles because there are many that fit that category. But you can't hide behind a good partner with team politics and play up a level in singles, you will be exposed.

    It would be a very rare occasion when a 4.5 singles player could not play 4.5 doubles also. A lot of them may not play the top dubs team but they could play solid enough to make the line up. But on the other hand a high % of the doubles players would get trounced playing singles, many would rarely if ever win a match.
     
  42. TennisCJC

    TennisCJC Legend

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    I guess this thread proves it is not possible to go 0 to 5.0 in one year as it will be 1 years in just over 2 months.
     
  43. cartel

    cartel Rookie

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    there was some sports show YEARS ago like 20? where they took the top players and did a round robin between the sports

    i saw one where it was the #1 squash guy - #1 racketball guy and i think it was mcenroe for tennis.. i cant remember if there was a ping pong guy or not then but dont think so..

    each won their own sport but it was very interesting to see how the top players adapted quite fast to another sport.. and the tennis and racketball players facing off in squash..
     
  44. GuyClinch

    GuyClinch Hall of Fame

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    Not enough time. Its estimate to become truly good at most high level sports - golf, chess, hockey etc - you need 10,000 of good quality practice.

    So even if the guy managed 10 hours a day he wouldn't make 4000 hours. With your 21 hours a week number (far more realistic) its going to take 500 weeks - or almost 10 years.

    Which not concidently is considered the magic number for violinists and other top performers. So realisticially if we want to fudge and imagine that you need only 5000 hours to become a 5.0 (this is likely low - not everyone will reach 7.0 even with practice) we know this guy has no shot.

    The only 'way out' is if you have crossover potential. That is a squash pro has over 10000 hours racquet sport experience. So while that not all going to count as tennis practice - a good portion of it might and thus he can reach the 5.0 mark much quicker. And for rec players who are playing only a few hours a week - (and some during the 'regular season' only)... There is going to be very little improvement after some early quick improvement.

    Its probably something like - +10 hours (2.5) +500 hours (3.0) +1000 hours (3.5) +2000 hours (4.0) +2000 (4.5) etc. with the caveat being that some people are going to be talent capped even lower. You can make some 70 year old play 20,000 hours and he won't even make 4.5.

    Most rec players would be thrilled if they went from 3.5 to 4.0 That means they would beat all their life long rivals..But most people will be stuck at 3.5. That seems to be the number you can hit with some practice but not anything excessive.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2013
  45. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    Now this post is spot on, except when you call golf+chess a sport.
     
  46. shindemac

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    I'm not surprised he underestimated the time to master tennis. When you're new to something, it seems easier than it actually is. To him, tennis is probably just hitting the ball over the net. To us, it's about spin, volleys, strategy, footwork, etc. So many different areas to individually master.

    Crossing over sports is interesting because you run into athletes who pick up the sport at a much faster pace. But they have much better fundamentals whether it be hand-eye coordination, fitness, agility, balance, etc. There's also sport specific skills that transfer over nicely like knowing how to throw.
     
  47. gameboy

    gameboy Hall of Fame

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    Only about a week to go. I am guessing he got to 3.0/3.5...
     
  48. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    3.5 in one year is very good progression, almost among the best.
     
  49. Steady Eddy

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    I got to 3.5 in 20 years, so a suppose it's possible to get to 5.0 in 1 year.
     
  50. PhrygianDominant

    PhrygianDominant Hall of Fame

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    Maybe not sports, but if you know anything about chess you know it is just as difficult (probably more considering how unpopular it has become), and the distinction is a moot point
     

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