NTRP (estimated) 2.5 Wall Practice (Video)

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by TomT, Sep 7, 2012.

  1. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmC_RonvQq4&feature=plcp

    Any videos from NTRP (estimated or established) 2.5 to 3.0 rated players are welcomed. Videos from higher rated players are also welcomed in a relative instructional sense.

    Comments and criticisms from knowledgeable TT posters welcomed.

    This is meant to be a thread for USTA and other leagues' bottom dwellers. Those of us more or less severely competitively (and perhaps tennis fundamentally) challenged individuals who love the game in spite of our deficiencies and keep the faith that we might actually improve.

    Post some videos (I'll be posting more because I just got a new camera), make some comments, have fun.
     
    #1
  2. Bowtiesarecool

    Bowtiesarecool Rookie

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    #2
  3. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

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    Thanks, this is very instructional.
    EDIT: The thing is that the wall resources available to me provide less distance than those in the instructional video. Any suggestions?
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2012
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  4. jonnythan

    jonnythan Professional

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    My suggestion is to play against people, not walls ;)
     
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  5. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

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    Thank you jonnythan. :) I have to agree. Also, I think I actually look and play better on court against people (rather than walls). Your comment is noted and appreciated.

    Post some videos.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2012
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  6. Bowtiesarecool

    Bowtiesarecool Rookie

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    Well, you don't have to hit at a wall that's 40 feet away. My local wall has about 15-20 feet of space tops, and it helps me focus on control as opposed to ripping hard winners. There's a drill I do as well where I stand about 5 feet from the wall and alternate FH and BH volleys without letting the ball bounce.
     
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  7. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

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    Thanks Bowtiesarecool. I'm familiar with that drill. 40 years ago I could do it. Now ... not so easy.

    Anyway, I posted the wall video only because that was all that was available to me at the time. All the courts were taken. :)

    Hopefully tomorrow I'll get some on court time and videos.

    And please, all posters, post some videos for positive criticism and/or examples of good stuff. :)
     
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  8. ShoeShiner

    ShoeShiner Rookie

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  9. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

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    Yes it does help. Thanks ShoeShiner. I can't do it like the guy in the video, but it's always good to watch somebody who can.
     
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  10. vil

    vil Semi-Pro

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    There's nothing wrong practicing against the wall. You can keep working on your shots, footwork and basically it's a great cardio work out if you really want. It's not the most ideal way but hey, even some pros do it, so it can't be that bad.
     
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  11. KineticChain

    KineticChain Professional

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    yeah was gonna say the wall is not a good way to look at NTRP levels. From this video you could be anything from a retired pro to a low level rec player.
     
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  12. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

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    :) That's encouraging. Actually, I'm a very low level rec player. My current estimate is maybe 2.5 NTRP (USTA). Thanks for the feedback. Post a video. :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2012
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  13. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

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    I agree. It seemed to provide a good foundation for Borg and a few others. But I tend to be lazy on the wall. Come to think of it, I tend to be lazy on the court. :) Anyway, I'll get some videos of court play soon. Post some of your own. Thanks for the feedback.
     
    #13
  14. Dreamcastin

    Dreamcastin Rookie

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    thanks for the post, I can tell your forehand is your better side:) Im hoping to post some videos on here at some point for some pointers.
     
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  15. vil

    vil Semi-Pro

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    I wasn't sure about posting this but decided to post it anyway. The video is about 2 to 3 months old and I still play with my older style. I'm trying to make my forehand more compact.
    Anyway, this is what I do if I can't find any partners.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaWjLFvbzHs&feature=plcp
     
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  16. Sky_Boy

    Sky_Boy New User

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    u move pretty fine for your age... BH swing path seems wrong .. it's neither a slice nor topspin drive.. if it's a slice then your not slicing the ball enough.. motion should be down to upwards.. which means point of contact starts from waist level...
     
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  17. Sky_Boy

    Sky_Boy New User

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    and do u change your grip when hit your BH drive? it seems u use eastern forehand for your BH slice
     
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  18. Sky_Boy

    Sky_Boy New User

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    i think that's normal.. most ppl dictate and generate more pace on their FH.. same goes for a big majority of atp pros..fh is definately their better side.. apparently it seems that quite a few wta women stronger side are their bh.. are women just better at bh than men?? lol
     
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  19. Moz Fan

    Moz Fan New User

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    Yeah, to me you looked higher than 2.5. I thought your technique and specifically your stroke were better than 2.5. I' ve seen legit 2.5s with not nearly as refined a swing as yours. Perhaps mobility keeps you near a 2.5 (hard to say from vid) but not your stroke.
     
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  20. vil

    vil Semi-Pro

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    OK, this video may clarify a bit more, the way I hit the ball. (I'm closer to the camera) I said this before I'm an old school type of player and just trying to modernise my forehand. If my swing path is right or wrong I don't care, it works for me when I practice enough.:) My grips are forehand- eastern or SW, backhand- eastern, slice backhand- somewhere near continental.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGQw66fWRvQ&feature=plcp
     
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  21. Sky_Boy

    Sky_Boy New User

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    yes vil , your strokes r generally fine.. i was talking about this video instead that the TS poster http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmC_RonvQq4&feature=plcp
     
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  22. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

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    Thanks for posting vil. Nice fluid strokes imo. Very instructional for me. I would eventually like to closely approximate the way you hit the ball. Maybe that's not possible. But worth shooting for I think. Enjoyed your vids. How old and what NTRP competitive level are you?
     
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  23. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

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    I'll try to get some court play vids tonight. I probably have lots of fundamental flaws that I'm unaware of. Thanks for the feedback.

    Yes, I use different grip for FH and BH. FH drive is an eastern grip more or less, I think. BH is continental more or less, I think. For BH drive I adjust or rotate (my grip) a little to the left ... so I guess that's sort of between a continental and a full western.

    Ironically, my BH seems to me to be the more solid shot when hitting on court. That is, I miss fewer BHs than FHs. :) Usually I just slightly undercut it. So it tends to stay low and skid.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2012
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  24. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

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    Mobility and stamina are important factors in why I'm at a very low competitive level, but the more vids I make and watch, the more technical flaws I see as well. My long term goal is to improve enough to be competitive at 3.5.
     
    #24
  25. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    That's not a very good practice wall. It's too low, and it appears that the court is too shallow. You can't execute a full swing with the optimal height on that wall without the ball landing behind you.
     
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  26. vil

    vil Semi-Pro

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  27. Sky_Boy

    Sky_Boy New User

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    sry i wasn't clear.. the motion down to up that is mention is for bh drive not slice
     
    #27
  28. Sky_Boy

    Sky_Boy New User

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    i suggest using eastern grip for bh drive not continental... unless your slicing..index knuckle on 1st bevet.. if it stays low and skid then it's a slice.. from what i see your bh strokes is kinda of a slice without sufficient slice action on it which means there's some drive action on it.. i think u should learn the proper techniques on both shots and not mix it up..there's many videos online for that.. compare both their slice stroke and bh topspin and u would be able to see what i mean
     
    #28
  29. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

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    I understand. Part of the problem now is that I have an injured wrist. So, I'm hedging on certain strokes. Flat, slightly undercut or slice backhand isn't painful. Topspin backhand is painful for some reason that I don't know. Forehand is basically without pain ... it's just that I can't decide whether to hit old school more or less flat or more modern with topspin. Serve is still painful. Played tonight against a (estimated) 3.5 NTRP and lost 6-1, 6-4. Everything is an experiment at this point.

    Would have some videos from the match tonight but got a 2GB (because it was a lot cheaper and also on sale) instead of the necessary 16GB SD card. Have to wait until the next social security check to upgrade. :oops: But just a couple of weeks.

    Hoping that other 2.5 to 3.0 players will post their videos and comments here. Also, would like to see instructional videos and comments from more advanced players.

    Thanks for your feedback.
     
    #29
  30. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

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    I don't use either eastern or continental for BH drive. It's rather more like something between a continental and a western forehand turned around for a backhand. Anyway, what it produces is a hard flat shot ... and it feels really good.

    I agree that I should learn proper techniques. Easier said than done. :) But, yeah, that's the goal. Thanks much for your comments.
     
    #30
  31. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

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    I respectfully disagree. I think it's an adequate practice wall for people with good technique. (Which, apparently, I'm lacking.) But, with that in mind, I have to agree that it might benefit me more if the distance between me, the hitter, and the wall was somewhat increased.

    Regarding another issue. You gave me some good advice a while back on my serve. I've been experimenting with turning more sideways (which I think promotes some of the things you were talking about), and have been having very good results ... even with my injured wrist.

    The hitting more sideways seems to impart more spin to the serve. Interestingly, it's also faster and more reliable (as long as I remember to actually keep my head up looking at the ball while I'm serving). :)
     
    #31
  32. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

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    No reason to feel that way, imo. Your contributions are most appreciated. I like your strokes. Wish I could hit like you. Thanks for the feedback. Post more videos. Maybe us 2.5 to 3.0 players will learn something. :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2012
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  33. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

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    Yes Dreamcastin, post some videos. Thanks for the feedback.
     
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  34. vil

    vil Semi-Pro

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    Tom, thanks for kind words, I only play once a week these days so it's very hard for me to keep improving. This site is great, there's a lot of good coaches here with a lot of good advice. In my opinion, I think all you need is a good quality camera and post a video once in a while for some analysis.
    Oh yeah, and just to answer your previous question, I'm 51 and I don't know anything about NTRP rating. It's a bit different here in Australia.
     
    #34
  35. NTRPolice

    NTRPolice Semi-Pro

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    That guy is a clown.

    Specifically regarding that video... TWO bounces?

    Letting the ball bounce twice kills the pace of the ball. The whole point of the wall is developing repeatable pace and control. By letting the ball bounce twice kills the pace of the "rally". Letting the ball bounce more than once is like dropping the ball at waist height and taking a swing. It's practically useless.

    Put up a target? You dont need a "target" to hit at rofl.

    1) If you hit the ball too high or two low you will kill the rally because the ball will have to bounce more than once.

    2) If you hit the ball too wide you will be running back and forth like a madman and probably not be able to maintain a rally.

    You pretty much have to hit a target by default if you want to rally with the wall. Unless... you're this guy and let the ball bounce twice and only hit forehands.



    And OP (TomT) looks good for 2.5, but you might have problems finding a team that low. Theres no reason why you cant rate 2.5 though, but id count adult/senior leagues out in most places in the country because there wont be enough people. I wouldnt go higher than 3.0 though, unless you have more footage to show.

    Good control over the wall as a "2.5". Most 2.5's will not be able to rally with the wall after the feed haha.
     
    #35
  36. maxpotapov

    maxpotapov Hall of Fame

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    Wow, you sound rough. What are you, NTRP police? :)
     
    #36
  37. vil

    vil Semi-Pro

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    I agree, you don't need two bounces, however if you are beginer it may be perhaps beneficial to get the ball bounce twice in order to give you more time to set up. Once you become more consistent then let it bounce only once. Lot of people use old balls for hitting the wall 'cos that's the best way to finish them off but usually they don't bounce very well and this is where the problem is. You are basically forced to come closer but this will rush your shots...not a good option. If you step further, you have to hit either higher or let it bounce twice..again not the most ideal situation unless you are beginer. I find it best when I have new or good balls, standing further back and just keep hitting normal shots. Balls are still coming back with a lot of pace and you have a "reasonable" time to adjust your footwork.
     
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  38. gmatheis

    gmatheis Hall of Fame

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    I can't believe more people havent said this but ...

    Your strokes are way above 2.5, and look to me like they would be competitive at 3.5. Now your mobility, consistency and other aspects may impact that but your strokes themselves look like 3.5 to me.

    I agree with the other people here though that you really cant tell much from watching you hit against a wall, and a wall really should only be used when you absolutely can't find anyone to hit with.

    For reference ... I play as a 3.5 currently but when I tell people that they all tell me I'm a sandbagger :)
     
    #38
  39. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

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    Thanks to any posters I haven't replied to.
    Below is a few minutes of video snippets of points from a match a while back.
    It should be readily apparent which player is me.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yz9l_ncBeYA&feature=plcp
    (Note: video is best viewed in large player mode)

    Obviously, everything needs lots of work. However, if I were to focus on the things that are most in need of immediate attention it would be, 1) movement and court position, and 2) footwork and racquet preparation.

    Any comments and criticisms are welcomed. Also, more videos from similarly challenged as well as more advanced players.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2012
    #39
  40. sunof tennis

    sunof tennis Professional

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    Thanks for posting the match video. Much better for analyzing than hitting agains t a wall. You are absolutely correct on movement and court positioning. A couple of very simple suggestions: (I will leave the more techinical stuff to the coaches). There is nothing even remotely resembling a split step or even being "on your toes". You are completely flat footed, standing and waiting for the ball to come to you before moving. Easy concept to change. Second simple thing. When you serve in the deuce court you are standing way too far to the right or near the sideline. That would be about the place to stand if you were playing doubles. Standing there, you have too much ground to cover to the left.
    Good luck with your tennis progress.
     
    #40
  41. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

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    Thanks sonof tennis. Your suggestions are noted. I have a match this evening. Will get some video if possible.
     
    #41
  42. TennisCJC

    TennisCJC Legend

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    Hi TomT,

    Wall practice is great - I hit the wall about once a week.

    Your game looks better than 2.5.

    A couple of thoughts that may help you.

    1. Use your left hand better on forehand. On FH, keep it on racket until you start swing and then extend L arm out to side - sort of parallel with baseline. As you rotate upper bottom on FH, your left arm will pull back into your trunk and tuck beside your right hip.
    2. Keep chest facing side fence on 1 HBH. You are rotating your shoulders a bit more than a 1 hander shoulder. Your chest should stay pointing to the side fence.
    3. Keep you L arm back on your 1 hbh. Even pull back a bit as your racket arm goes foreward. You are letting the L arm go forward with the rotation at times. Using the left arm to pull back will also help with keeping chest toward side fence.

    Have fun, keep practicing.

    Do you know how to practice overheads on the wall? Drive the ball down so it strikes the court in front of the wall and the ball should bounce up hit the wall and then go high into the air and you can hit forehand and backhand overheads.
     
    #42
  43. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

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    Thanks TennisCJC, your comments are noted and appreciated. Yes, I think my actual skill level is above 3.0, but my competitive level is 3.0 or lower. Age, conditioning, etc. Makes all the difference.

    Anyway, thanks for your comments and insights. They are noted and I hope to implement your suggestions. And yes, tennis is fun, and I'll keep practicing, and thanks for your input. :)
     
    #43
  44. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

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    Last edited: Sep 18, 2012
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  45. Sky_Boy

    Sky_Boy New User

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    Tom.. do u do consistent rallies down the middle with a partner? i do suggest that u do that if u d want to improve your strokes.. of cuz u need to know the technical aspects of the individual stokes to practice it... my point being dun do too much match-play do more consistent rallies maybe 1 set at the end of the session would be good
     
    #45
  46. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

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    Good point(s) I think. Unfortuately, my two regular hitting partners are away from tennis for a while. I'm in a local league and most of my court time is spent in actual competition. The only recent rallying aimed at hitting consistently to a partner has been during warmups before matches, and sometimes after the match. Other than that my rallying practice has been limited to htting against the wall.

    Below is another recent video of wall practice. In this one I'm trying to come over the ball with the backhand on as many shots as I can. After recording this I did another one where my racquet preparation is higher, earlier and more pronounced (on both backhand and forehand), and it resulted in better shotmaking. Unfortunately, the second video was really blurry for some reason that I'm still trying to figure out.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XE6SFXZDsc0
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2012
    #46
  47. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

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    Thanks for the comments NTRPolice. Yeah, there's no USTA leagues around here that go as low as 3.0 as far as I have been able to find out. So, I'm currently in this TLN (see sig, tennisftlauderdale.com) flex league which has 17 guys and 2 women in the Fall Season (from 3.0 to 4.0). It's just getting started in Fort Lauderdale, and so far it's been very enjoyable for me ... even though I'm arguably the worst player. :)
     
    #47
  48. Sky_Boy

    Sky_Boy New User

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    BH looks like it has improved a little from last video.. u did hit a good top spin on your bh when the ball is in your strike zone but when the ball is low i realise u kinda hit a mix slice .. for low balls u have to bend your knee low so that your contact point will be low ...the key is to bend your knees much more..
     
    #48
  49. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

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    Thanks Sky_Boy. That low knee bending is difficult ... for me. :) Anyway, I don't see how anybody can hit over the ball when it's real low.

    EDIT: A lot of the problem is due to sheer laziness on my part, I think. I'll make a video with more pronounced racquet preparation (describing a "C" instead of a "U"). Doing the "C" prep also seems to make me move my feet better. Is that possible?
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2012
    #49
  50. Sky_Boy

    Sky_Boy New User

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    For racquet preparation.. with both feet side by side at the ready position take left feet 1 step back directly behind right feet and there u have your body automatically turn side ways.. u can also take right feet 1 step directly infront of left feet and u get the same thing... swing path is to let racquet drop to low and hit it upwards and u have your top spin BH drive.. dun worry too much on racquet drop as long as u start from low and finish off high.. make sure the grip u use is correct..bevel 1 is the recommended grip or some call it eastern BH grip...

    I understand that when contact point is high or very low it's diffcult to execute your BH.. it's easily to use to slice for those shots something i see u use for high balls which is correct...
     
    #50

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