NTRP (estimated) 2.5 Wall Practice (Video)

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by TomT, Sep 7, 2012.

  1. Sky_Boy

    Sky_Boy New User

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    Low ball are generally more difficult to hit... timing and knee bend is crucial.. at first it will be difficult but when u have hit 300 of it, it wouldn't be that difficult anymore.. easier way out slice it..
     
    #51
  2. NTRPolice

    NTRPolice Semi-Pro

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    If your whole game is as consistent and controlled as your latest video I dont see why you couldnt even play 4.0 seniors. You definitely have control and accuracy. Depending on how you move you might be able to play 3.5 adult league.

    Hitting with the wall is pretty hard, especially when you use only one bounce. If your whole game is like that in an actual rally I dont see why 4.0 senior would be out of the question. 4.0 adult might be pushing it, but depends on the level of competition in your area, how young and experienced the players are, ect.

    The problem with NTRP is that you never want to guess too high.

    Id still go with 3.0 adult or 3.5 senior and (more than likely) murder people and move up.

    That is definitely not a 3.0 level of consistency for an adult player. If you're decently mobile and the rest of your game is about that level I can see you going on a rampage in 3.0 and possibly 3.5 senior. With all those things considered, 4.0 senior is probably where you will meet opposition, or 3.5 adult because players start to hit dramatically harder than the level below.
     
    #52
  3. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

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    Thanks for the encouragement NTRPolice. It does help to motivate. Unfortunately, there's no seniors singles leagues (USTA or otherwise) close enough to where I live. It's all just adult leagues. There's USTA 3.5, 4.0, and 4.5, which I might never be ready to compete in (definitely not the 4.5). Then there's a couple of non-USTA flex leagues that do have a number of players in the NTRP 3.0 range. I have a 3 - 22 record in the (fairly new, it just started this past spring ... I started in it this past summer) Fort Lauderdale chapter of the Tennis League Network -- playing against 3.0, 3.25, 3.5, 3.75, 4.0 men, and one 3.5 woman.

    Anyway, I'm not consistent. I would call that latest video I posted a good example of inconsistency, due to bad footwork and bad racquet preparation. I think, given my mobility issues, that in order to be consistently competitive at anything above the 3.0 level, then I should be hitting 50, 100, an indefinite number of balls in a row off one bounce at that wall. But I can't do that yet.

    I do appreciate your (perhaps somewhat unrealistic but nonetheless encouraging) comments, however I'm currently playing hacker, dinker, lazy old man, cupcake tennis. :) It's disgusting ... and embarrassing. :oops: Below is a video of the latest example. It was shot the day before the latest wall video. Hopefully, subsequent wall and match play videos will show some improvement. (I'm giving myself about a year, playing on average, say, 3 or 4 times per week, to fully incorporate stuff I've learned here at the TT forums, and to be approaching being competitive at ~ 3.25 to 3.5 level -- but some of it depends on how my legs and feet progress, and not having another flare up of my Crohn's disease.)

    By the way, post something of your most recent stuff when you have time. I enjoyed your other videos, especially those exhausting groundstroke drills.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAMB20pUFiQ&feature=plcp
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2012
    #53
  4. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

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    Sky Boy, thanks for the tips.
     
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  5. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

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    Here's another fairly recent video. My opponent is a 4.0. I didn't play too bad, by my standards, but he bageled me (6-0, 6-0) with no trouble. About half the games did go to multiple deuces. Pretty clean match actually (again, by my standards), as I only had one double fault and he had none -- and, I really didn't make a whole lot of unforced errors like I usually do. He just hit lots of shots that I couldn't get to. :)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jobr83EQJA8
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2012
    #55
  6. Sky_Boy

    Sky_Boy New User

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    Hi Tom

    Can i check what did u say to opponent whenever he lobs u?
     
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  7. TomT

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    Hi Sky Boy. Not sure exactly what you're referring to, but usually I just say nice shot or something like that.
     
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  8. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

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    #58
  9. Sky_Boy

    Sky_Boy New User

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    Hi Tom.. for first video, your standing to near the net after u hit your approach shots.. i know your preparing to volley but if your standing too near the net your only inviting your opp to lob u.. optimum distance should roughly be half way from net and service line..

    And i notice that u dun keep your other free hand on the throat of the racquet.. try to do this as it helps with grip change when u hit your top spin BH... at the ready postion free hand should be on throat of racquet
     
    #59
  10. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

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    Thanks Sky Boy. Will keep these tips in mind. I have been, well, at times anyway, trying to concentrate on keeping left (free) hand on throat of racquet in preparation for all shots. It's just a matter of practice and repitition, repitition .... etc.

    Also appreciate your suggestions regarding court positioning. I know you're right, but for an old and not very experienced player like me some of this stuff is actually hard to do. :)

    Hey, post some vids of your play so I can see who I'm talking to. :)
     
    #60
  11. xFullCourtTenniSx

    xFullCourtTenniSx Hall of Fame

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    You can hit a topspin forehand and an awkward backhand slice.

    Your attempt at a topspin backhand is more sidespin than topspin. Lift higher. Racket should finish much higher on the backhand.

    Just go out and play matches. At your age (I think I saw white hair and some scalp, so excuse me if you're actually a young person), your shots aren't going to get any prettier anytime soon... What you want to focus on is being able to control it and being able to hit it 100 times without missing. All you can get better at is control, control, consistency, and match play.

    I saw an old guy, chemistry professor at UCLA from what I heard, play against another old guy and the points between them looked very one-sided. The professor didn't have the best looking strokes. They were very short, stiff, and very jerky. He got clean contact and a good follow through. But more importantly, his precision was laser-like. He hit the lines on so many shots (which I advise against, but he was doing it all day so I can't criticize him for it).

    At his age (easily at least 60), how many people are going to be blasting the ball? How many are going to use heavy topspin? How many can run very well? Not many. How many can place the ball well? How many can hit about 100 balls into the court if they can move to it? Depends on how many of these guys are as smart as the professor.

    He's not going to beat any reasonably consistent, reasonably clean-hitting, young guy. He's just going to use his young legs to keep getting balls back until they eventually land somewhere where the professor can't get to them. But how many 60+ year olds can beat young guys that don't beat themselves? Not many. There are the fit old guys (like McEnroe, who I don't think is 60 yet), and that's about it.

    There was a guy who is insanely dominant at I think the 90+ division (some insanely high age range) because he's the only one left that can actually move to the ball. As you get older, your movement and ability to abuse your opponent's lack of movement (though control and consistency) are your weapons.
     
    #61
  12. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

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    Hi xFullCourtTenniSx, thanks for the input and tips. Yeah, I'm the old(er) guy in all the vids. :)
     
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  13. xFullCourtTenniSx

    xFullCourtTenniSx Hall of Fame

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    Not gonna lie... Better legs than what I'd expect of 65 years. My knees would probably be all taped up, if not my weak ankles.
     
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  14. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

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    Last edited: Nov 10, 2012
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  15. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

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    #65
  16. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Hate to tell you...
    You have the strokes of a 4.0 player in the movement of a 3.0 body....:)
    Amazed at the groove of your strokes. Hope the legs come back soon.
     
    #66
  17. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

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    Thanks for the feedback. Yeah, the strokes need a lot of work, and the movement even more. :) Goal is to become consistent 3.5 competitor. Unfortunately, the clock is ticking. :)
     
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  18. Cheetah

    Cheetah Hall of Fame

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    Hey,

    pretty good strokes. nice feel. very athletic. Do you do any exercise to work on those legs? bike or stairs etc?
    Keep it up. Looks good.
     
    #68
  19. Sky_Boy

    Sky_Boy New User

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    Hi Tom.. regarding your serves, i feel your tossing too low.. tossing arm should finish higher.. it's important to toss higher becuz if u dun u will be rushing your body into the serve losing power in that way.. For detailed explaination u can try fuzzy yellow ball website..

    As for my video, i dun have a video cam right now.. will probably buy or borrow 1 sometime in the future..
     
    #69
  20. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

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    Thanks Cheetah. Bike about 10 miles/day on average. But mostly it's just trying to play with a little more intensity (while remaining relaxed) with each successive match. Stairs are somewhat painful. Don't do them much.

    Anyway, just getting out and doing something on the tennis court several times a week has improved the leg strength a lot.

    Main problem now is stressed tendons in wrist and hand since earlier this year -- a byproduct of trying to do too much (for me) in a certain period of time.

    So, how's your game these days? Any videos for instruction or positive criticism ... or just because I like to watch tennis videos? :)
     
    #70
  21. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

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    Hi Sky_Boy, thanks for the tip. However, in the case of the serve I want to keep the toss low in order to keep it as simple as possible (think: Roscoe Tanner, etc.). I'm not actually worried about my serve at this time. It could be a lot better of course, but it's very consistent, and a very easy motion for me the way I do it now. Against 4.0 to 3.5+ it's effective enough to get me into the point. Against weak 3.5 and below it's a weapon.

    Of course, when everything gets stronger and the hand/wrist heals fully, then I want to try to do some things (which will probably involve experimenting with a slightly higher toss) to improve it that I can't really do effectively now. Ie., bend into the court, point (bring feet together), knee bend, and extending more (maybe even jumping a little) into contacting the ball.
     
    #71
  22. anantak2k

    anantak2k Semi-Pro

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    The overhead drill he does is very interesting. I need to try that this week if I get a chance :)
     
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  23. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

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    Yeah, all those drills look good. Thanks for reminding anantak2k. Post some video of yourself if you can.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2012
    #73
  24. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

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    #74
  25. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Nice live arm.
    Would be nice if you started tennis in your 20's. You'd be easy 4.0 right now heading to 4.5 very soon.
    I know what it's like to have the wheels cut out from under you.
     
    #75
  26. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

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    Hi LeeD, actually I did start in my 20's. But only played during 1975-76, then not until this year (unless you want to count the, oh, 2 or 3 times per decade that I played between 1976 and 2012).
    As long as the Crohn's doesn't flare then I think I might eventually become a competitive 3.5. At least that's the goal. :)
    Thanks for the feedback.
     
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  27. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    I meant started in your 20's TWO years ago.
    You have the strokes. You don't have the legs.
     
    #77
  28. Cheetah

    Cheetah Hall of Fame

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    Keep it up. I played with a 72 year old guy this spring who hits harder than I do and I can hit pretty hard.
     
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  29. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

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    Oh, ok, I see what you mean. Yeah, stroke production during a match does depend a lot on the legs, and, even though I might seem to be scooting around the court ok at times, mine are still relatively quite weak. But I have to be thankful just to be able to get out there and do something/anything. For much of last year I couldn't even get on a bicycle. The first few times I tried to hit early in this year I couldn't even hit against the wall for more than about 10 minutes without being totally drained. Today played 1 1/2 hour two set match from 9:30am to 11am and not tired at all -- though I do feel it in the legs a bit.

    Hit a couple times recently with a guy who's willing to do some groundstroke, etc. drills ... which should help a lot.

    Also, wondering about the possible benefits of playing on clay fairly often. Up to now it's just been hard courts.
     
    #79
  30. sunof tennis

    sunof tennis Professional

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    Yes, toss is too low and too far to the side. Should be more one o'clock versus two o'clock like yours. You simply slice the serve now. There is no pronation (and, as you mention no leg drive, etc). The question is how good to you want to get and how much time do you have to put into it. Your forehand is a 4.0. The serve is 3.5 to maybe 4.0 and same with your backhand. To get to 4.5 you would have to re-work you serve and backhand to get top spin on both to go all with your slices on both.
    You play pretty smart and well for your level.
     
    #80
  31. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

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    There's a 70 year old guy who comes down to Fort Lauderdale from PA occasionally who has a sort of Ken Rosewall type game except he has 2HBH. The guy is really good. Very solid. Nice compact strokes, great volley, and he scoots around the court like a 30 year old.
     
    #81
  32. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    There is NO chance, realistic or dreaming, of TomT becoming a middling 4.5 player in singles. Heck, I move twice as fast, hit three times harder, and there is very little chance.
    Consider. We are over 63 years old. We have no legs. That alone precludes any chance of 4.5.
    A very good 67 year old, one who plays the NationalChamp65 twice a year almost even, says that there is no chance a guy his age can ever compete in 4.5, just because his endurance after a set and a half is not there.
    You will cite plenty of marathone runners aged over 60. They run slow, too slow to play tennis. A tennis ball waits for no man, regardless of age or repute.
     
    #82
  33. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    And no, he doesn't scoot around like a 30 year old, except for out of shape non athletic 30 year olds.
    Fed is over 30.
    He scoots around the court like a 60 year old.
     
    #83
  34. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

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    Thanks for the input sonof tennis. Top spin serve and backhand are future goals. I doubt that I would ever be competitive at any level beyond maybe good 3.5s.

    I think the topspin bh requires a bit better preparation than I seem to be able to consistently do at my current fitness and leg strength levels. Same with the leg contribution to a better serving motion. Topspin and kick serves also seem to strain my wrist and hand tendons in a way that my current serve doesn't.
     
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  35. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    You are a smart and observant human.
    Wish we all had your smarts.
     
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  36. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

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    Good points, must agree with you.
    :) Well put.

    Ok, but relative to me, right now, at least in my perception, the guy scoots like (even better than some) the 30 year olds I play. :)
     
    #86
  37. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

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    You are a much wiser observer, I think. Appreciate your input. I'm just trying to hit the freakin' ball a bit better and get a bit fitter (hopefully with each time out on the court). :)
     
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  38. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    While most 60+ year olds can still move our bodies around the court somewhat, we all lack the EXPLOSION of the push off to get anywhere. That is one full step we lack over most 50 year olds.
    And athletes around 30 have lost a full step to the early 20's.
    Where does that leave us? Doubles. Foogie singles, where we stand around and admire shots near the sidelines.
     
    #88
  39. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

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    Foogie singles? :) Is it THAT bad? Yeah, I guess so. But I don't like doubles ... at all.

    And Oh, the sublime beauty of shots near the sidelines. Even if they are only travelling at about 30 to 40 mph and I still can't get to them. :)

    Yes, lack of explosive power says it all. For example, I do have a fairly good idea of how to hit a much better serve, but mainly just lack the explosive power to do it. Anyway, it remains a hope and long term goal.

    By the way, they put some variable resistance workout machines at the far end of my home courts park, beyond the soccer field. One of them is a squat machine. I'm hoping that doing some of those each day will help.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2012
    #89
  40. Ambivalent

    Ambivalent Hall of Fame

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    The problem with wall practice is that 1. there is no lateral movement, and 2. the shots you are getting are all predictable. IMO it's a pretty bad way to practice, and will do you more harm than good.
     
    #90
  41. Sky_Boy

    Sky_Boy New User

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    That is true.. I guess if u want things to be fair, u have to play guys around your age...
     
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  42. sunof tennis

    sunof tennis Professional

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    Good point. I don't know why the OP can't learn the strokes of someone who would be a 4.5 At 50, I completely learned a new forehand going from old school continental grip to a semi-western fairly modern forehand. That isn't to say that someone in their 60s with good strokes is going to be able to best someone in the 30s with similar strokes.
    Seems like the OP wants to continue to get better. With his current strokes the is an upper limit to how good he can be (which is fine, we do this for fun and exercise). With some tweaking, his upper limit has been moved.
     
    #92
  43. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

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    I agree, and during the off season of my TLN Tennis Fort Lauderdale league participation, I'll be experimenting with hitting with a semi-western forehand grip for rally shots. However, one of the movement related problems I have is getting the proper distance from the ball during preparation for a shot. My current thinking is that if I improve that aspect then even with a more or less eastern forehand grip I should be able to impart sufficient topspin. And then it's just a slight grip switch to hitting topspin backhands, rather than the more pronounced switch required from the semi or full western forehand -- unless I radically altered the way I now hit topspin backhands from a more or less eastern to a full western or something.

    And obviously, I'm not sure what I'm talking about. But hopefully you get the gist and might have a suggestion. Thanks
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2012
    #93
  44. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

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    It's not the preferred way to practice, but I think it can be helpful as long as one is practicing correct movements. If there's nobody to hit with, then it's the only way I can practice hitting other than doing drop feeds or shadow strokes.

    By the way, like your sig. :)
     
    #94
  45. Shangri La

    Shangri La Hall of Fame

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    Watched the video in the first post. I think the player (OP?) is better than 2.5/3.0 technique-wise. He just may not have the fitness/endurance to do better in league matches.
     
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  46. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

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    You're right of course, in the sense of age being a deciding factor if other things are approximately equal. But, they rarely are in these recreational tennis leagues. The thing is, even at my current level of play I've actually been in all the matches (except 3 or 4) I've played against much younger opponents, in the sense that, but for lots of eminently correctable errors, I might just as well have won many of the points that I lost. There's reason to believe that as experience and fitness (and therefore stroking consistency) increase, then the number of avoidable (ie., stupid) errors will decrease.

    Anyway, we're only talking about eventually getting to a solid 3.5 level of play. A 3.5 is a 3.5 no matter what age.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2012
    #96
  47. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

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    Hi Shangri La. Yeah that's the basis of it. Without a certain fitness level one can't even practice correctly. But I do think I'm slowly (very slowly :) ) improving in that regard. Check out some of the more recent vids on the previous page.

    And post a vid or two of your stuff if you can. Thanks for the input.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2012
    #97
  48. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    Smart to under rate yourself like that..:)
    More like 3.5 or so from what we can see there.
    Keep up the good work!
    Are you near Coral Springs at all?
     
    #98
  49. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

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    Thanks for encouragement, but ratings are about results, and I generally lose to 3.5s, so I'm not there yet.

    I'm in southwest Fort Lauderdale. Not far from downtown. Near the port, US 1, 17th St. Causeway, SR 84 ... that area. So, about 12 miles or so from Coral Springs I would guess?

    Do you ever get over by Hardy Park, Holiday Park (Jimmy Evert Tennis Center), or George English courts?
     
    #99
  50. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    You may lose to them (some of them sandbaggers of course) by I expect you
    play pretty well with them overall, right?

    Used to get to Fireman's park, but hit a couple of spots in Coral Spgs when I'm
    in town. Get over to Evert's at times as well, but not much and I don't think it
    is the one you mention.
     

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