Of Trophies And Paperweights

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by Cindysphinx, Feb 11, 2010.

  1. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    Topaz,

    I understand one of Mtommer's points, which is this:

    The reward for working hard at your tennis is your improved tennis, not your trophy. Therefore if someone disrespects your trophy or says they wouldn't value such a trophy for themselves, who cares?

    What I don't get is this.

    1. Jolly said something you believe to be rude.

    2. Jolly has not withdrawn his statement or apologized, and he never will.

    Why is there ever any reason to ever mention it ever again ever?
     
  2. bertrevert

    bertrevert Hall of Fame

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    yer his partner is known as ... "the wall"

    sorry couldn't resist
     
  3. mtommer

    mtommer Hall of Fame

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    I'm the distance of the baseline to net length plus a foot or two back from the wall and I'm barely hitting the ball. The balls are hitting (in general) about a foot higher than net height. They just aren't going to come back bouncing very high. If they were old balls they'd be rolling by the time they got to me most likely. <shrug>
     
  4. mtommer

    mtommer Hall of Fame

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    She does.



    • As Topaz sees in another thread, "High level Open player" no longer equates to 5.5+.

      Result: Jolly never lied about claiming a high level. Given some of the remarks from the thread that got deleted, he in fact said he wasn't too.

      Two sentences...

      1. Topaz, your "3.5 trophy" achievement is laughable.

      2. A 3.5 trophy is a paperweight to me.

      Now, start reading through this thread as well as others. Number two equates to the follow: A personal opinion about a level of tennis and is not belittling anyone.

      Of course it doesn't.

      So what we end up with are Topaz' complaints nullified by HER own words. If she wants to continue on about acknowledging different views about trophies as viable, well, then I guess Jolly is now officially off the hook for his comments. It's the foregone conclusion to her posts, perfectly applicable. If she doesn't want to hold Jolly to the standard of her posts then fine, but she's a hypocrite then. I assume she's okay with that. I'm only "yelling" because I fail to see why she can't make the leap from what she has been saying to how it's applicable to Jolly. It's like saying the sky is blue and then criticizing someone for saying the sky is blue. Seems kind of looney to me.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2010
  5. Topaz

    Topaz Legend

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    Cindy, I agree that the greatest reward is the improved tennis. The trophy can be a symbol of that.

    I don't think it is cool...and I have every right to say it. This is still a discussion forum right? I mean, I didn't realize I wasn't allowed to discuss this matter and only some were allowed to offer their thoughts to this conversation. You started this thread with the context of Jolly, but that doesn't mean every reply is in the same context.

    Why do you think it ok for people (I DON'T MEAN JOLLY SPECIFICALLY HERE) to disrespect the hard work of other's? I mean, that is fine if you don't care, but others may have a different opinion from you.

    Did you read my post? (number 134) My reply was to Steady Eddy. In fact, I even quoted his post, so it was crystal clear who I was talking to and the context of my answer.

    Mtommer brought Jolly up again...so maybe you should ask him not to mention it ever again ever? Why did you start this thread if you didn't want it brought up?
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2010
  6. mtommer

    mtommer Hall of Fame

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    Sigh, he's so good. I've never beaten 'em. :wink::grin:
     
  7. bertrevert

    bertrevert Hall of Fame

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    I think you've summarised correctly.

    Thus I'd answer:

    We don't play tennis in a vaccuum. Comp tennis is a tennis playing public's societal construct to reward winning tennis. To say you don't care for trophies (whether having won them or not) is to thumb your nose at reality and society. Fine, nothing wrong with that.

    Except really if you play tennis then I think it best to try competitive tennis because I think we players can all agree that that is the acid test.

    Why say that?

    In comp tennis there are moments and situations that you just don't get into when hitting with mates. Comp tennis doesn't pamper your ego.

    How about this: my first comp match was losing as a 30 year old against a freckly 14 year old who I think I recall wore glasses. He'd played for 10 years, me for one. He belted me. Most 30 year old egos couldn't take this. Me: I was hooked.

    Trophies are awarded in comp tennis. But it could be anything. Let's use a little anthropology - the trophy is a societal totem, a boundary marker to say you have crossed over - but it could be anything, a towel, a tee, heck, even if it was a shrunken head I'd grab it.

    Comp tennis isn't everything and some find it not very nice at all. But it is a given that it is a fundamental plank of what makes this sport tick. So: heat, kitchen, etc...
     
  8. bertrevert

    bertrevert Hall of Fame

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    S'funny I was just talking to a club pres on the weekend. Said that here in Syd over time we've had bracket-creep. Basically everyone who got rated high over time has kept their high rating, irrespective of comp results or no comp results, or whatever - they haven't been re-graded. This lack of a dynamic has simply meant that equiv of a 5.5 is no longer that. The simple reason behind this is no-one likes to go downwards in rank. Call it vanity or whatever.

    See to recall Jolly did start a thread specifically for "high-rated" players ONLy and presumably considered himself to be the one to do so...

    See I think you quite reasonalby bring up the fact that there are competing views of trophies and I basically agree with that. Yes, really they are trinkets only. However, I just wish to state that I think our sport has always valued comp tennis as the pinnacle - and with reason.

    Those reasons I have outlines in my post above. As I have experienced tennis over time I'd have to agree. Comp tennis is the acid test and I suppiose that make me an acid casualty!
     
  9. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

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    Though I am reluctant to enter the dark valley of death that is this thread, I can't resist adding my 2 cents :)

    If we consider a trophy being not so much the actual physical trinket, but rather a representation of an achievement, then trophies are cool. We each have our own internal measure of what we consider an achievement, so the value of a trophy can only be measured by the person earning it.

    Now if we consider the actual physical trinket, that's just a personality thing. Some people like having physical reminders of things - vacation photos, mementos, their child's baby shoes / hair / whatever, etc. Some people don't go for this kind of thing and just relive significant memories in their mind.

    But however you look at it, putting down someone else's achievements is not cool.
     
  10. GuyClinch

    GuyClinch Hall of Fame

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    ^^^Agreed. If we start to argue that only accomplishments that are of the highest level matter then almost nothing most people do in life "matters." It's a very negative view of life. You didn't graduate from Harvard? Well don't frame that diploma. I suppose we should just throw away all our childhood academic awards because they aren't Nobel prizes.
     
  11. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    well, judging from all the pointless threads you start, there is A LOT YOU DON"T GET.

    1. It was rude.
    2. He lied about his playing level.
    3. He continues doing it >>>>>> lying about his level, and being rude to those he feels are beneath his playing level, who coincidentally, he is no better than
    And in the same way, posters who have just as much right to post, will continue posting their thoughts on the matter, especially since he keeps putting down what he considers lower level players.

    Some momo started this thread:

    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=312344
     
  12. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    This is the crux of the matter, I think.

    Yes, anyone here can say anything. Point conceded. So why do I care if you raise this point over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over?

    Because it has a chilling effect, Topaz.

    If you and others continue to dredge this stuff up and keep it alive, it has an effect on the board. Consider TFM's original bet thread and the couple of others about the bet that were deleted. Jolly actually posted on one of those threads. Me, I was happy about that. I *want* to know how things are going for him in his own words. I'd like to hear about his opponents, what he thinks he needs to do to improve. I am genuinely interested.

    If folks are going to stalk him (and yes, I think the "discussion" has risen to the level of stalking), then he isn't going to contribute and the discussion of his tennis exploits has been chilled. Instead of hearing how Jolly's last match went, I get to read how folks are *still* carrying a grudge about Jolly's posts. This is tiresome and frustrating for someone like me who would simply like to discuss tennis in a pleasant environment.

    You know, I have been married almost 20 years now. I can assure you that my husband has said things and done things that I thought were rude. Do I raise these things over and over? No, I do not. Sure, I might get some perverse pleasure out of rubbing his face in it, needling him, giving him the business, setting the record straight. At some point, I have to *let it go already.* It is better for me, it is better for him, it is better for us.

    Wouldn't you agree with me that it would be better for you, for Jolly, and for the innocent bystanders like me at TW if everyone just laid down their weapons? You know, forgive and forget? Be the bigger person? Take the high road? Is that really so hard?

    There.

    I have said my piece, made my position clear, explained myself as best I can. I will now lead by example, as it were. I simply won't respond if the Jolly Truth Squad keeps raising this stuff. I think it would be better if we all just Moved On. Whether you choose to do the same is entirely up to you.
     
  13. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    Yes, but . . .

    All trophies are not created equal. Surely we can agree that winning a major is a huge accomplishment because it means you were the very best tennis player in the world for those two weeks.

    Winning a 2.5 trophy does not mean you were the best in the world. It doesn't even mean you were the best 2.5 in the world. It means you were the best 2.5 of the four 2.5 players who showed up that weekend.

    If we turn the discussion to diplomas, a diploma means you completed a particular course of study. If Harvard, it was probably among the toughest in the world. If it was Hal's Wonderful World Of Diploma Mills, it means next to nothing.

    Is a diploma from Hal's to be compared to a diploma from Harvard? Of course not. One is a trophy and the other is a paperweight.
     
  14. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    Because he continues to do it, therefore, posters are responding to him.

    How is it that it is tiresome for you to read posters responses to his efforts of putting down players, yet it is not tiresome for you to read his BS??

    and why did you start this thread if it is "tiresome" for you???
     
  15. Topaz

    Topaz Legend

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    As am I, and if you read my posts on those threads, you would realize that.

    The only things I saw deleted from the bet thread were false accusations and personal attacks (such as 'burn the witch'...ask mtommer about that one).

    What have I dredged up? I think that was mtommer you want to talk to there. Funny how you excuse him, but if respond to him and defend myself, then *I'm* the one dredging stuff up?

    Well, look at who is starting the threads. You need to take a look at what is actually out there instead of believing just a few people.

    Who is stalking who exactly? Again, I was going my happy little way in this thread, and it was mtommer who brought Jolly up again, followed by Joel and Ska, all aimed at me. But you 'scolded' me, not him. Your bias is showing loud and clear. Yet, YOU are the one who started this thread. I have contributed in a positive manner in this thread, can you say the same for your little friends?

    Jolly has posted his own info on this forum many, many times. He agreed to the bet thread...a thread where it was made clear his results would be posted. Where is the stalking? Just because others accuse some of stalking, doesn't mean it actually happened or it is true.

    I tried that once Cindy. Remember your 'pledge'? I took it. I stuck to it. Others, in your little 'Leave Jolly Alone Society', did not.

    And then I was harassed and insulted myself. Interesting how you don't seem to remember that or hold others to their personal responsibility.

    And I have said my piece, several times, yet you and Mtommer can't read my posts for what they are...you are the ones injecting Jolly into my posts to other people and are assuming everything I write is about him. You are the one who started this thread. Maybe you guys are the ones who need to Move On?
     
  16. Topaz

    Topaz Legend

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    What, what is it I see??? LOL Have you read that thread?

    Um, yes he did. I mean, Cindy doesn't want us to dredge things up, but if you are going to post things that you know are wrong, be prepared to be corrected.

    And to you I say...that is not cool. Just like me and others have said...it is not cool and downright rude to belittle someone else's accomplishments. Why would you do that? Why would you say that to someone else? What does that do for YOU?

    I have never belittled Jolly's accomplishments. Read my beef again. I have never suggested that he stop playing opens, only that he start also playing at his own level as well, because I think he will improve his tournament playing that way. His record clearly reflects that as well. Many others have said the same exact things I have, yet you guys always jump on me. Interesting.

    No, what we have is you trying to twist everything I say because you are stalking me and bent on your little Jolly crusade.

    I've never wavered here...I think it is rude for anyone to belittle someone else's achievements and hard work. I have not belittled Jolly's playing or anyone else's. I have expressed my disappointment with his words and his claims and his lack of personal responsibility.

    I get that others don't think it is a big deal to have the actual physical piece of hardware...but I will always think it is cool and a big deal when someone works hard to improve and works toward a goal. I think we all agreed on that in this thread. Except, it seems, for you.
     
  17. skiracer55

    skiracer55 Hall of Fame

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    I dunno...

    ...look at what I said in post #18. The original question was "How proud should any of us be if we win a non-pro tournament or match?" where my stock answer is "This is not a group think exercise, IMHO...each of us is individually entitled to feel proud (or not) of whatever trophies you've won, for whatever reason." But I do think that striving and achieving your best, which is what I call winning, is a noble occupation.

    If you look at ski racing, for example, there is as wide a spectrum of abilities and events as exist in tennis. For most World Cup and Olympic champions, a crystal globe or gold medal is the thrill of a lifetime. The first time I won a Masters race, which ain't even in the same league as the WC or Olympics, it was also the thrill of a lifetime for me. And last year, I saw some folks qualify for the NASTAR nationals, as first time racers, and it was the thrill of a lifetime for them and they cherished the medals they won. Striving for something and winning, IMHO, is one of life's rare thrills, and at whatever level, you ought to be proud and happy. Just be a gracious winner, and acknowledge the effort that your opponent or the other contestants put out, is my only request....
     
  18. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    Well, people can take pride in a clod of dirt, too.

    As you correctly say, "striving and achieving your best" is a noble occupation.

    The part you wrote about winning, though . . . . That I'm not so sure about.

    What I mean is this. Say you are playing tournaments and not winning any matches but are having competitive results against higher-level players. No paperweights for you. Far from it, in fact.

    Is that "striving and achieving your best?" I ask, because I think it is in some sense. Yet I think I am in the minority on that around here.
     
  19. mtommer

    mtommer Hall of Fame

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    Goodness, Topaz, that wasn't in any way shape or form an attack on you. When someone posts the picture of a witch, one must quote the obligatory Monty Python "Burn the witch." quote. One must insert whatever "Holy Grail" quote one can in whatever compacity possible. One just must!
     
  20. JoelDali

    JoelDali G.O.A.T.

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    I never said anything about burning witches. I'd hate to see anyone burn or even melt for that matter. That is terrible and cruel.

    Cyndi's analagy of letting things go with her hubby makes alotta sense.

    The original high level player thread was not disparaging at all. I have yet to see one person's life deeply affected by the paperweight conspiracy. It seems its affected those without a life the most, such is the work great minds and great artists. Those who can do, those who can't - talk.

    [​IMG]
     
  21. mtommer

    mtommer Hall of Fame

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    See what I mean....

    "A witch, a witch, burn the witch!"

    Dam you JoelDali, dam you sir!

    :D
     
  22. skiracer55

    skiracer55 Hall of Fame

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    Not to go too far off into the Theater of the Absurd...

    ...but:

    - There's nothing wrong with a clod of dirt, or taking pride in it, either. I live in Farm Country, Colorado, where dirt is a noble thing, if for no other reason than it is part of the equation, along with hard work, that feeds a nation.

    - I'm no longer of the philosophy that winning is the most important thing, or the only thing. That's a personal choice, there's plenty of people around who firmly believe that winning is the only thing. I'm not trying to convert them. I go by the Rudyard Kipling quote at Wimbledon:

    "If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
    And treat those two impostors just the same;
    .
    .
    .
    Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
    And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!"

    So that's just what I believe.

    - Which leads to winning, being competitive, and what the grounding philosophy of that is. Mine is simple:

    1 - Always do my best.

    2 - Believe in myself.

    3 - Play fair, and respect the competition. He, she, or they care as much about this as I do, and are trying just as hard to do the best possible.

    4- Have fun, somehow.

    5 - If I do 1 through 4, without fail, the results will take care of themselves, and they'll be whatever they are supposed to be.

    So that's what I believe, in this discussion. I'm not trying to convert anyone else, or compare, contrast, or criticize my philosophy vs. anyone else's. This is just the way I live, on and off a tennis court, everyone else's mileage may vary...
     
  23. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    Topaz and "Jesus-Tap-Dancing-Christ-Drakulie" both ask why I started this thread. Topaz deserves an answer.

    I started it for the very same reason Gameboy started his thread about aspirational players: To distract the people who wish to hound Jolly and drag every thread about the TFM/Jolly bet into the mud. Think of it as throwing chum into the water, if you like that visual. Gameboy and I chose different vehicles, and I hoped this thread would turn into a thoughtful discussion about the importance of trophies. For the most part, it did, IMHO.

    I kinda thought that was obvious and there was no need to spell it out, but there you have it.

    Skiracer, you have an admirable and pure outlook on the place sports should have in our lives. It is refreshing, to say the least.
     
  24. Ripper014

    Ripper014 Hall of Fame

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    None of us are innocent...
     
  25. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    Yes, it was/is. Does it have an affect on people's lives where they are deeply affected or it will somehow change their life in a dramatic fashion? NO.

    However, even though all of us (the TW community) don't know one another on a personal level, or even know what a poster looks like, their is still a level of trust established between posters. Their is a lot of good and bad information passed on this board. Who you will beleive is dependent on the level of trust that person has established and how much weight you put into that person's post. Fact is, he lied, and has been posting under the pretense of that lie since he joined this "community", and has yet to set the record straight, including once again putting down what he considers "lower level players", while at the same time trying to make himself out to be better or at a higher level than them.

    J may very well be a great person, I have no doubt as I have met him and am glad I had that experience. However, he is dead wrong on this issue, and has lost all TRUST I had put in him before I found out the truth, and in finding out that truth, finding out how badly he was putting down other's accomplishments.
     
  26. skiracer55

    skiracer55 Hall of Fame

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    Thanks much...

    ...but before you elect me to sainthood, I am only pure and admirable until the after race party. Then, it's time for Upside Down Margaritas, The Antler Dance, and High Speed Donuts in the parking lot in the Batmobile...as described in the following:

    http://www.rmmskiracing.org/snownews/SnowNews-2003Feb.pdf

    http://www.rmmskiracing.org/articles/RMalm-2006-03-Goals.pdf

    http://www.rmmskiracing.org/articles/RMalm-2006-03-Hotbox.pdf

    http://www.rmmskiracing.org/articles/RMalm-2001-10-DayJob.pdf
     
  27. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    Yes, some of us *are* innocent. I'd say the percentage of innocents here hovers around 99%.

    If you are willing to forgive and forget, if you are genuinely interested in the tennis adventures of others, if you can grasp how none of this is good for the board and that a whole lot of people are *well and truly sick of it* . . . .then you are innocent. IMHO.
     
  28. Bagumbawalla

    Bagumbawalla Hall of Fame

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    Well, it looks like this thread has gone somewhere strange, but for what it's worth, I see nothing wrong with paperweights. Paperweights can be better than trophise. People collect paperweights and some of them are worth quite a bit (thousands of dollars), others collect the sort of paperweight that is like a souvenir of some special moment.

    Personally, rather than a tee shirt, plaque, dust-catching trophy, set of tumblers with the club logo, platter, gift certificate to the pro shop, and all that stuff, I would rather get an actual paperweight- hand blown, Venitian glass, signed, (about the size of a tennis ball with a slice taken off).

    Problem solved trophy=paperweight.

    Still, money would be best.
     
  29. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    And you are far from one of them.
     
  30. JoelDali

    JoelDali G.O.A.T.

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    Before I moved to the east coast my dad and I were contemplating all the boxed up possessions of mine being shipped and those that stayed behind at our winter compound in the Rockies.

    One of the boxes contained a truckload of my Junior tennis trophies. Up to the age of 12 I was a feared sandbagger on the Ventura County junior circuit. I won every boys 10/12 and under tournament in the same region that Sam Querrey grew up in for 3 years straight in a hotbed of tennis. These were big trophies, the 3 footers. They were pretty damn impressive on my wall growing up. And I loved them, I loved winning them. I think I amassed about 30 to 40 trophies from all the major clubs in the region. I especially loved winning the Ojai Satellite tournament being it had the most prestige amongst the top juniors in Ventura County. I'll never forget playing against my friend Todd in the final with a huge crowd watching, clapping, gasping and cheering our epic 3 setter that I ended up winning. That win landed me a berth in the SCTA Sectionals in Whittier that year where I promptly got dubble bageled to a very famous guy that now coaches WTA.

    We were good. We were damn good. We battled like hell in those tournaments. My paperweight from the Santa Barbara junior open when I lost to an 11 year old Michael Chang was a purpleish hue and was my most devastating loss, and was the big wake up call that I didn't have the support and commitment that Betty Chang had for her kids. Andre says he hated it but my ultimate dream would be a dad that demanded I played tennis and not go to school. What a life. What a perfect childhood. I'll take that dragon any damn day Mike. You sir, were a blessing from God.

    Around 1989 before my folks moved Sin City(tm) I lost the fervor for the tennis trophies and lost touch with that segment of my life. They eventually became forgotton and replaced with the newfound love for Rush, TS Eliot, Yes, and Led Zeppelin; coupled with combing the beaches of Southern California in search of truth, tasty waves and blonde frosted honey babes. I went a good 10 years of never thinking of those trophies. There was no love for tennis for many, many years. While kids that I beat as a junior went on to Pepperdine, Cal Lutheran, USC and UCLA to play tennis, I was soul searching and harboured resentment that my tennis career was mangled and lost in the midst of total disfunctional family drama, death and Betrayal(tm).

    I had completely forgot about those 3 foot high paperweights. Years later I learned that my stepmother who was under the slow croaking hands of cancer had kept them for me for 15+ years after she died in 1999. I took them to my next destination and put them up in a room and looked at them with proud honor. For a period of my life I was GOAT. I was good. I was damn good. I was rewarded with sick hardware and number 1 rankings that made me damn proud.

    And so, in the Summer of 2006 my father and I sent all my moving boxes to the east coast in preparation for my new life angering people on Wall Street. In a moment of perverse recklessness, I picked up the boxes of tennis trophies and I dumped them in the Waste Management bin next to my fathers company's parking lot. I dumped all those paperweights: the one from Ojai, the one from 1000 Oaks, the one from Santa Barbara, the one from Pierpont and the ones from Westlake Village and the one from Westshore. I dumped them all and now, lately, after taking up tennis again the past few years and getting 3 or 4 trophies for meaningless NTRP tourneys, I'd give anything to have those symbols of that beautiful era of junior GOAT glory, I'd give anything to have those damn paperweights back. Damn me for throwing them away. They were marvelous. They were beautiful. I earned them. Every damn one of them. The hours and hours and hours hitting on that backboard on Triunfo Canyon Road were rewarded. The journey for paperweights lives on as a crippled old NTRP freak with an insatiable love for 85 square inch box beams, junk food, and cheap gut.
     
  31. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    ^Could the memory of the paperweights mean more to you than the paperweights themselves?

    In other words, if you actually had them, would that make you not want them?

    Cindy -- amateur psychologist (tm)
     
  32. jswinf

    jswinf Professional

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    Woody Allen (in a movie a long time ago when he was good): "I'm sorry, I've just been really nervous like this since I quit smoking."

    Young blond chick: "Oh, I'm trying to stop smoking too. When did you quit?"

    Woody Allen: "25 years ago."

    Young blond chick: "What...? 25 years...? That doesn't make sense! Are you joking or what?"

    Woody Allen: Shrugs, rolls eyes.

    I am shrugging and rolling my eyes.

    But big deal, dude, some of the other folks on this thread have ISSUES!
     
  33. Jracer77

    Jracer77 Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2007
    Messages:
    239
    Yep, bring additional attention to what you said. Good move....LOL
     
  34. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    35,779
    Post reported:

    Repeated trolling and attacking of Jolly in every possible context and hiding behind convoluted arguments. Mods, stop this stalking once for all.
     
  35. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    May 3, 2004
    Messages:
    24,466
    Location:
    FT. Lauderdale, Florida
    ^^^actually, CindySphinx, who happens to be the OP of this thread is the one who brought jolly into the discussion in her very first post, and make him the center piece of the discussion.


    So, this thread is an attempt by the OP to troll Jolly. Not, Topaz.
     
  36. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Messages:
    35,779
    Cindy, stop trolling about Jolly by baiting others by dropping his name, knowing they will pounce on him.

    As a mature (hehe) woman, you should know better than tease these kids.
     
  37. raiden031

    raiden031 Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    5,997
    I guess jolly isn't all that jolly, is he?
     
  38. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    15,095
    I know! I keep saying, "Jesus tap dancing Christ, leave the man alone," but that only makes them madder!

    [​IMG]
     
  39. arche3

    arche3 Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2009
    Messages:
    5,389
    It just keeps getting better...:shock:
     

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