Only player to defeat mcenroe and conners in same major?

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by ttwarrior1, Feb 7, 2011.

  1. jrepac

    jrepac Professional

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    And then he got to the final and choked against that little red headed kid! what was his name again? :twisted:

    I think Jimmy vs. the Kid would've made a better final, frankly.
     
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  2. pundekman

    pundekman Rookie

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    trivia: what racket did Curren use during Wimby 85?
     
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  3. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    That match would have been all fireworks, to use a cliche: but it's true.
     
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  4. SusanDK

    SusanDK Semi-Pro

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    Little? :)

    They played a great Queens final in '86 or '87 which Jimmy almost won.
     
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  5. jrepac

    jrepac Professional

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    yeah, he wasn't that small was he? Saw that 1987 Queen's final, it was high quality stuff. Boris had to battle back after falling behind. Those were 2 guys I always enjoyed watching; tremendous competitiveness from both of them.
     
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  6. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Susan, I always enjoyed Connors vs Becker; they really got along fine, they were so cocky, out minded, flashy...and provided such a contrast of styles...I think Connors liked Becker cause Boris was beating Lendl when it mattered...and Becker liked Connors since he beat Edberg and was a threat to Mc Enroe...

    It was a very, very funny cross of personalities: Mc and Wilander were along fine, so were Connors and Becker...anf that leaves us Lendl and Edberg...and the result is...they got along fine¡¡¡ ( and it speaks volume of Stefan to be one of the very few guys Ivan geniously liked...)

    Mc/Wilander, Boris/jimmy and Ivan/Edberg...boy, those were times¡¡¡
     
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  7. jrepac

    jrepac Professional

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    I had never thought of it that way....Jimmy liking Boris (and vice versa) due to their mutual loathing of Lendl...and yeah, Boris was beating Lendl in key matches in the late 80's. Similarly, for whatever reason, Jimmy was a bad matchup for Edberg; I don't think there was any animosity between them...Jimmy just seemed to have a real bead on his serves, that others did not. Connors/Mac did not meet up all that often from 85 on, but Jimmy did win a few off him in the late 80's (like '87, when Mac was really in decline).
     
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  8. SusanDK

    SusanDK Semi-Pro

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    Yeah, I think Jimmy respected Becker's attitude and go-for-broke style. Becker never gave up and could come back against anyone from match point down. He could not be intimidated.

    Alternately, Connors was critical of Wilander who he accused of not putting 110% into every match he played, of which there was some truth. Mats tried hardest only when it really counted.

    Absolutely!
     
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  9. Stuart S

    Stuart S New User

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    Not sure - all I can tell you is that it was wooden, which makes his ace count all the more amazing!
     
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  10. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Jimmy was Mats' idol for that reason. Mats said:

     
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  11. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Despite a tremendous age difference Connors took a set from Becker in almost all of their matches in 86-87. The only time he got swept in straights was at the French. But on grass and carpet, which had to be Becker's two best surfaces, Connors always pushed him.

    http://www.atpworldtour.com/Players/Head-To-Head.aspx?pId=B028&oId=C044

    I think most people probably consider Becker to be the greater grasscourt player, but you look at their matchups in the mid-80s and you have to wonder how a peak Connors would have done. His return blunted Becker's greatest weapon and he thrived on Becker's pace. I could see peak Connors beating peak Becker at Wimbledon, though it's difficult to compare with such an age difference.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2011
    #61
  12. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    In terms of games won, these were McEnroe’s worst defeats in the Slams:

    5 games against Orantes, 1977 USO on Har-Tru (best-2-of-3 match)
    8 games against Curren, 1985 Wimbledon
    9 games against Agassi, 1992 Wimbledon
    9 games against Connors, 1978 USO
    10 games against Courier, 1992 USO
    10 games against Lendl, 1987 USO
    10 games against Tim Gullikson, 1979 Wimbledon


    And Connors' worst defeats:

    4 games against McEnroe, 1984 Wimbledon final
    5 games against Curren, 1985 Wimbledon semifinal
    6 games against Higueras, 1982 RG quarterfinal
    6 games against Lendl, 1985 RG semifinal
    7 games against Borg, 1978 Wimbledon final
    7 games against Borg, 1979 Wimbledon semifinal
     
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  13. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Curren did not beat McEnroe any time before or after the '85 match at Wimbledon: http://www.atpworldtour.com/Players/Head-To-Head.aspx?pId=C057&oId=M047


    Connors won the H2H with Curren but lost arguably their 3 most important matches: the two at Wimbledon and a meeting at Key Biscayne that he lost from two sets up (anybody seen that one?)

    http://www.atpworldtour.com/Players/Head-To-Head.aspx?pId=C057&oId=C044

    The only other time that Connors lost a match from two sets up was to Borg at the '81 Wimbledon (talking only about matches officially counted by the ATP today): http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=4887821&postcount=124
     
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  14. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    In terms of against whom they lost, Mac´s worst defeats, until 1985 were:

    1978 W to Van Dillen
    1980 FO to Mc Namee
    1983 USO to Scanlon
    1985 AO to Zivojinovic

    a lousy lose for Connors was his 1983 defeat at RG against Vasselin and his 1986 USO defeat at Pistolesi´s hands.He never lost to a poorly ranked player other than those 2.
     
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  15. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Connors lost to the late Todd Witsken at the 1986 US Open, not Claudio Pistolesi. I'm actually surprised why this huge upset isn't mentioned that much in tennis circles, along with Lendl's loss to Svensson at the 1988 French Open, which isn't mentioned anywhere near as much as Lendl's loss to Chang the following year.
     
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  16. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    At the time it was a surprise, but that was more due to Connors' history at the event. It was less surprising considering the season he'd been having, starting with a long suspension from the tour after the Lipton. It was just a really bad year for him.

    The loss to Witsken did stop Connors' run of 12 straight years to the USO semis. That was one of the most remarkable runs in the Open Era, I think, and in that sense the upset was historical.
     
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  17. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Right.What happened to Witsken ?
     
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  18. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Witsken died of brain cancer in 1998.
     
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  19. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Didn´t know, feel really bad.That was more or less the same time Tim Gullikson died from cancer, too, isn´t it ?
     
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  20. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Todd Witsken died 2 years after Tim Gullikson. They were aged 34 and 44 respectively, which is tragically young.
     
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  21. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    There are nicer things to post about here, right?
     
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  22. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Sorry. As I was talking about before, I don't think Witsken's win over Connors at the 1986 US Open is mentioned as much as it should be. It was a straight sets win too. The impression at that time seemed to be that American tennis was "in decline", which in hindsight is absolutely laughable.
     
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  23. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    True.Wasn´t 1986 the year Connors lost to Dan Goldie at Wimbledon? one year later, he killed Pernfors and reached the semifinals at Wimbledon, losing to Cash.

    But in 1986 he - and Mc Enroe, too- seemed completely flat.Possibly his worst year since 1979, when he didn´t make any major final, reaching 5 semifinals.
     
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  24. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Connors lost in the first round of 1986 Wimbledon to Robert Seguso.

    Yes, 1987 Wimbledon with the famous Connors vs. Pernfors match where Connors won from 1-6, 1-6, 1-4 down, as well as trailing 0-3 in the fourth set.

    McEnroe had some issues reconciling his tennis with his personal life at that time and the 1985 US Open loss to Lendl was a big blow for him, eventually leading to him taking 6 months out in 1986 after losing to Brad Gilbert at the Masters. Connors was seemingly knocked out of his stride by that 10 week suspension for what happened against Lendl at Boca West.
     
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  25. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    True, now I remember about big serving Seguso, who was at that time one of the best doubles players (Flach and Seguso ranked nº 1 ).He never did something big in singles but was a dangerous fast court player...and married Canadian bimbo Carling Basset ( real hot girl).Thanks for bringing him back¡¡
     
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  26. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Curren-Connors, 1983 Wimbledon, R16,
    6-3, 6-7 (6-8 ), 6-3, 7-6 (7-4)

    Curren made 7 of 13 first serves in the tiebreaks (53.8%). By tiebreak:

    4 of 7 (winning 3 of 4, but only 1 of 3 on second)
    3 of 6 (winning 2 of 3 on first and 2 of 3 on second)

    Connors made 6 of 12 first serves in the tiebreaks (50%). By tiebreak:

    3 of 7 (winning all 3)
    3 of 5 (winning 1 of the 3)
     
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  27. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    How do you get all these match stats krosero? I've noticed you have a few old match clips on your youtube channel as well. How many old matches do you have?
     
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  28. jrepac

    jrepac Professional

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    Yeah, '86 was an awful year for Connors. The Seguso match was a very tight 4 setter as I recall. That suspension after Lipton seemed to knock him off the tracks, somehow. HA, that match was a real doozy. But, Jimmy bounced back nicely in '87, perhaps his last consistently strong year.
     
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  29. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    well, Connors was around 34 in 86.It was the first year where he and Mac were no longer factors.Wilander had an odd year, his worst after he became pro.Edberg and Becker, however, made big progress as Mecir did also and Lendl dominated quite comfortably.Noah had a big slump.A rare year, one of the strangest ever.A year in which Johan Kriek and old Guillermo Vilas played in the FO qf and kriek reached the semifinals there...and Jarryd won the WCT title...
     
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  30. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    I have so many don't know the number, I've gotten them from various websites. There are quite a few such sites now, just google tennis dvd's.

    On older matches Moose Malloy and I have culled the stats by watching the videos ourselves. We also work with published stats but those were not very common before the 1990s (and even what they had in the 90s is not comparable to what we have now). There are big matches early in the Open Era for which it's impossible to find stats (other than maybe the aces).
     
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  31. mattennis

    mattennis Hall of Fame

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    1986 was Noah best ever year-end ranking.
     
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  32. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    kiki doesn't let facts like that get in the way of his opinions :)
     
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  33. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    I have nothing against Noah year
    I just thought he had won IO beating Mecir former yr and U don' t recall specially great results from him in 86
    What did he achieve in 86? Honestly I cannot recall he did anything great
    IMO his best season was in 83 and also in 84
     
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  34. Lendlisking

    Lendlisking New User

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    only player ?

    Pretty sure it was Curren at Wimby in 85
     
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  35. Lendlisking

    Lendlisking New User

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    Curren

    Pretty sure it was Curren at Wimby in 85
     
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