Open stance vs square stance for forehand

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by julian, Dec 15, 2013.

  1. julian

    julian Hall of Fame

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    Kinetics of the upper extremity in the open and square stance tennis forehand.
    Bahamonde RE; Knudson D. J Sci Med Sport; 6(1): 88-101, 2003 Mar.
    Artigo em Inglês | MEDLINE | ID: 12801214
    Resumo
    Seven right-handed teaching professionals and eight intermediate tennis players were filmed using two high-speed cameras (100 Hz) as they performed open and square stance forehand drives. Three-dimensional coordinates (3D) were reconstructed using the DLT method. A three-segment rigid body model of the racket and upper extremity was used to calculate the kinetics of the wrist, elbow, and shoulder joints up to impact. The open stance created lower resultant velocities of the racket at impact (21.2 and 15.8 m/s) than the square stance (22.3 and 16.4 m/s) for professional and intermediate subjects, respectively. The largest components of the resultant joint torques were generated by the shoulder horizontal adductors, followed by elbow varus torques, and shoulder internal rotation torques. Torques were similar across stance and skill level except for significantly (p < 0.05) greater peak shoulder internal rotation torques in the square compared to the open stance, greater peak wrist flexion torques in the intermediate compared to the professionals, and greater peak wrist flexion torques in the square stance compared to the open stance. The data did not support the hypothesis that the open stance technique creates greater loading throughout the upper extremity than the square stance technique. Peak upper extremity torques were similar to peak torques reported for baseball pitching and represent loads that could contribute to strength imbalances and overuse injuries.
     
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  2. Shroud

    Shroud Hall of Fame

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    never heard of the square stance. What is it?
     
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  3. julian

    julian Hall of Fame

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  4. BlueB

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    Does that mean that the most of the stroke power is generated by the hand (mostly at the shoulder), after all?
     
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  5. Shroud

    Shroud Hall of Fame

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    Last edited: Dec 15, 2013
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  6. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    cause you are a lefty?
     
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  7. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly G.O.A.T.

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    Same as neutral stance or even stance -- in between open stance & closed stance.
     
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  8. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly G.O.A.T.

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    Closed stance is fine for single-handed BH. Would not overuse it for the FH or the 2-handed BH. It tends to produce inefficient footwork & recovery for many shots (that are not 1-handed BHs).
     
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  9. Shroud

    Shroud Hall of Fame

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    Nope.

    Just cause. I think I am lazy. :)

    on the forehand, the feet are pretty much pointing at the net. Right foot is about 60 degrees or more towards the net than the pict. Take your right foot that in the pict is pointing to the right fence and turn it probably about 60-70 degrees towards the net. Put the left pointing to the net.

    That was shadow swinging. I think that is how it goes, but I suppose a vid is in order.

    I thought pointing mostly at the net was an open stance but looks like its not.

    Here is mostly how it looks. Though I am guessing it depends on the shot. Volley like that too...

    [​IMG]
     
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  10. Shroud

    Shroud Hall of Fame

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    Except for the backhand I don't think I used a closed stance for anything. Pretty certain that I hit some backhands (like service returns) with an open stance. Great point about recovery.
     
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  11. corbind

    corbind Professional

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    Interesting data
     
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  12. OTMPut

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  13. Bobs tennis

    Bobs tennis Rookie

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    I've missed that site in the past but some very good hints put out on it.Especially like their myth busters...
     
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  14. TennisCJC

    TennisCJC Legend

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    There is another thread with a link to Matts Wilander and he advocates a semi-open or neutral stance for the FH too. He says club and pro players would be better hitting this way instead of open.

    I was watching Del Po and Novak play in a recent final and noticed how Del Po made 2 or 3 crucial mistakes on wide FH because his stance was too open and he failed to control the stroke.

    I think it is easiest to hit hard and generate the most spin from a semi-open stance that is near neutral when you have the time to setup.

    David Ferrer hits more open stance FHs than any top pro in my opinion and he contradicts the thought the semi-open or neutral is better as he does quite well with his open stance.
     
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  15. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly G.O.A.T.

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    ^ Do not know if Ferrer has any hip issues with an overuse of a fully open stance. However other prolific users of the fully open stance, such as Hewitt and Keurten, developed hip issues. Kuerten's hip problems put an early end to his career. Hewitt has had 2 surgeries on his right hip, I believe. His use of the jumping BH has possibly added to the stresses to his right hip induced by his open stance FH.

    Some experts have written (books) that have discussed the added stress to the hip from prolific use of the open stance FH. Using a variety of stances, esp the neutral and semi-open stances, is probably much better for avoiding overuse injuries to the hip and, possibly, other body parts.
     
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  16. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Problem with this image (which I have seen before) is that the 4 cases are not normalized in position. They should be redrawn from a constant positional reference, e.g,, left foot just behind the baseline in the first case. As they stand now (no pun), in the second and third cases, we must mentally bring the left foot down to the position of the left foot in the first case.
     
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  17. TennisCJC

    TennisCJC Legend

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    I am not aware of any hip issues for Ferrer. I don't think he has any major health issues as he is around 30 yo give or take a year and has never missed much time due to injury.

    How does open stance stress hips? Is it from the extra coiling of the core that is needed to get the shoulders and hips sideways while the feet remain open?
     
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  18. user92626

    user92626 Legend

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    I don't find any stance putting stress on the hips at all. Only certain stances like Open put a lot of stress on the knees and maybe ankles. I use the legs to plant, push, rotate, etc. It's tough for the joints (and shoes).
     
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  19. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

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    Yes, exactly. I have been saying this for years on here. I only use an open stance when I simply do not have the time to set up in a semi-open.
     
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  20. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    being over aggressive with anything can lead to stress...mostly this is just and excuse for some to hold on to old beliefs....if their is stress, it is likely from those not doing it right. Think this study is valid with such a small sample size?
     
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  21. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    and don't forget...semi-open is one of the many variations of Open Stance. :)
     
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  22. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

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    Yes, I think people confuse semi open with closed sometimes.
     
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  23. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly G.O.A.T.

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    ^ Can't see how ppl would confuse the semi-open with a closed stance. OTOH, many ppl lump semi-open and fully open together and do not make a distinction between neutral and substantially closed. For the latter, the hips are not free to turn as with a more neutral stance or the open stances.

    Doesn't Ferrer also hit semi-open?

    The extra coiling/uncoiling could be a significant factor. Also substantial loading is done on the back leg and remains loaded, more of less, for the entirety of the stroke. Weight is not transferred to the other hip/leg until after the stroke is completed. With a neutral stance there is an obvious weight shift/transfer. With a semi-open, sometimes there is a weigh shift/transfer, sometimes it is delayed like a fully open stance.
     
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