Oponent refused to play in "these courts"

Discussion in 'Adult League & Tournament Talk' started by Oldracquet27, Nov 12, 2009.

  1. Oldracquet27

    Oldracquet27 Rookie

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    I have this usta FLEX match scheduled with this lady the other night. I knew she was drama since she did not know if she was home or not, (sign of not being responsible about the schedule), she asked me then where we could play, i said in these park courts near my house, ( they are not new, but they are not cracked , and the net was good ).

    She had asked me to move the match early in the morning when i called to confirm because she had an appointment and might be late for that , yada , yada, etc. I said that it was going to be tough for me, since i had already asked my babysitter to come, i am very organized about my agenda , since for me playing tennis involve my kids, my husband and the babysitter!. She said ok let's play then as planned.

    As soon as she arrived to the courts she put all the excuses: " Oh my god, look at these courts!" she said ( the courts are perfect, i repeat, she is used to play in a nice countryclub, that is the reason why she was so bizarre), "it isn't a proshop here either?" and i asked why do you need a pro shop? . She also said that the net was kind of low in the middle, it was perfectly fine!. She asked to reschedule after both of us being there in the court!!!!. I said , listen , go to your apointment, (cause i thought that was the reason why she obviously did not want to play the match )and i don't think we are going to play ever this match, cause i will register a default in my favor. She said she will talk to the coordinator ( which i don't care). WHAT WOULD YOU DO IN THIS CASE?? i THINK SHE WAS BIZARRE, IRRATIONAL AND RIDICULOUS ABOUT THE COURTS, THOSE COURTS ARE NOT IN A COUNTRY CLUB , BUT THEY ARE PERFECT TO PLAY IN.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2009
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  2. beernutz

    beernutz Hall of Fame

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    She is not worth wasting your time on imo.

    Also paragraphs were invented for a reason.
     
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  3. Ripper014

    Ripper014 Hall of Fame

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    If it is that important to her... have her arrange the court on her dime and have her let you know where you need to be and when.

    I know if I am going to be playing in a league it is more about playing than winning. But if she could not get it scheduled quickly I would register the default.
     
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  4. JavierLW

    JavierLW Hall of Fame

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    I love public courts! If I had someone do that, Id just flat out tell them too bad and that they are crazy and then Id laugh at them for being so silly.

    It's too bad it has to be that way. Flex League is probably great for people who REALLY WANT TO PLAY but just cant commit to a specific time, but it probably invites the drama queen high maintenance picky people as well.
     
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  5. cork_screw

    cork_screw Hall of Fame

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    That is a forfeit. You seem very nice and accomodating. This woman is just trying to take advantage of you. She is making excuses. People like your partner never get anywhere in life.
     
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  6. Oldracquet27

    Oldracquet27 Rookie

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    Yes, for me playing is why we register for. But because of her attitude i don't want to waste my time and reschedule after she messed up with my time and family time already. I think that she just deserves that i register a default which i definitely will do.
     
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  7. Jim A

    Jim A Professional

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    I love playing on, within reason, the most average to below average courts I can find.

    My "home" court, because its right across the street from the house has one court whose net has a broken net strap, no wind screens etc

    After doing drills on that court, playing on a normal public court is like a luxury, I would never play a match there mind you out of fairness but its great for prep
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2009
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  8. slice bh compliment

    slice bh compliment G.O.A.T.

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    You have a husband? And a child? And a babysitter?
    She is envious of you, so she got passive-aggressive on you about the (gasp!) lack of a pro shop.

    She probably had forgotten her water or a pair of socks.
    What an ass.

    Anyway, why do you want to win by default? Why not just reschedule for a time that works for both players? Isn't that what FLEXtennis is all about?

    Get the tennis in! Offer to play at her club if that's what it'll take. Kick her butt in front of her pro shop!
     
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  9. chalkflewup

    chalkflewup Hall of Fame

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    Play her on her court. Don't say a word. Just stuff her and leave.
     
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  10. raiden031

    raiden031 Legend

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    Out of principle. She had to waste her time arranging her schedule and driving to a court only to find the opponent refuse to play. If someone treated me like that I wouldn't re-arrange the match with them.

    And this is coming from someone who would prefer not to default or penalize someone for showing up late to a USTA match. There is just a line that needs to be drawn somewhere.
     
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  11. jazzyfunkybluesy

    jazzyfunkybluesy Banned

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    I wouldnt waste time with that upper crustness. It wouldnt be fun and she would probably cheat. You already drove out there once. Then she might say its too hot, humid, windy etc.
     
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  12. Topaz

    Topaz Legend

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    I think if you decide to not play her again, you are well within your rights...she was very disrespectful of your time and efforts.

    But, if you *do* end up playing here again...then do this! :)
     
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  13. goober

    goober Legend

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    If someone expects country club amenities, they should not be playing FLEX league. I have had to play on all manner of courts including high school courts with cracks and no dividers between courts. Just stick to your country club and play interclub matches so you won't have to mingle with commonfolk.

    I would take the default, because it would not be fun to play someone like her.
     
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  14. slice bh compliment

    slice bh compliment G.O.A.T.

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    ^Things that you do not hear in men's tennis for $200 please, Alex.^
    We men are simple and we play where we're told.

    Yeah, now, I do see raiden's point and the OP's....but for the reasons listed above, I'd play her and not get into a row with her or the coordinator over a contested default.
    EDIT:
    [Sure, maybe get into it if she's abusive during a match....if the linecalls were atrocious, if she threw a racquet and endangered you or a spectator, but not over a weird thing like this. Worst case, just have the coordinator come out and approve your home court. Then you're on firm ground. But for a default that only one person thinks is a default, I think it's more complex.]

    Think of the coordinator, having to hear both sides of this mess. Just play. It's a game. Play it. There's no money or pro circuit points attached to this. And even if there were ... play.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2009
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  15. goober

    goober Legend

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    You are right it is just a game. You play for fun. It would not be fun to play someone like that. So why should you feel obligated to play her? I don't understand your money point. Do you not avoid playing with certain players for whatever reason even if there is no money involved in your matches? Everybody does!

    In general I would say "just play" in most cases. But she went over the line by refusing to play you on your home court after agreeing to play you there and after you made significant changes in scheduling, planning a babysitter, ect. Not having a pro shop is not a legitimate excuse.
     
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  16. JavierLW

    JavierLW Hall of Fame

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    It's always amazing when people use this tired old argument that somehow because the match isnt televised that somehow it's not important....

    So let me get this straight. Watching a bunch of people playing on TV that you probably have no personal involvement is somehow "important" to you?

    But rearranging your entire schedule, driving across down, paying for your own gas money, spending up to 2 hours or so of your day is "not important" to you?

    It's a really silly argument when you think about it.

    I doubt the coordinator will have too much of a dilemma about this one. The lady actually showed up to play after arrangements were made and then SHE refused to play, it's pretty cut and dry....

    If there is anything flex league SHOULDNT be about, it shouldnt be about jerking around your opponent because that's definately the fear with a lot of us when it comes to something like that....
     
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  17. dbusiness

    dbusiness Rookie

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    Both of you are playing in a USTA Flex League event and those
    rules would need to be followed.

    I interrupt rule 3 as meaning since this was your Home match
    that as long as the court was in good condition, the net could be adjusted
    to proper height and if playing at night there was proper lighting then it's acceptable.

    Flex league seems to be more about the spirit of tennis and playing then anything else.

    If your opponent was offering to cover your fee and you didn't mind traveling to some more accomodating courts that would need to be a mutual decision.
     
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  18. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    We need to see pics of the court. Otherwise, we are only getting one side of the story.

    I also think if you invite someone over to your courts, you have to find him/her a bathroom nearby. By nearby, I don't mean the Starbucks a mile away. If not, you should make it clear whether he/she can use your bathroom or not.

    For all I know, her request for a "pro shop" may have been a way to hide the fact that she needed to go.
     
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  19. Oldracquet27

    Oldracquet27 Rookie

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    as i said in my last post....


    I register here to play indeed, but because of her attitude i don't want to see her face anymore in a million years. Do you understand? Players like her are the ones who register without being sure if they want to play or not. And those courts, where perfect, not cracked, just some light stains. Net was perfect hight and condition. The girl plays in a nice country club.... I love to play in nice places too, but if the conditions are ok in a park i can play there too.
     
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  20. Oldracquet27

    Oldracquet27 Rookie

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    Exactly

    You got it right!. All of us in this message boards are tennis nuts, we WANT to PLAY TENNIS, not register a stupid win by default. I just feel that is the only thing i can do to feel not so bad about how disrespecful and irrational she was.
     
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  21. JavierLW

    JavierLW Hall of Fame

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    Ya, Im not sure about that. USTA League's are not just for club players, they are for players who tend to frequent the public courts as well.

    I belong to a club myself and I know it's aweome there are bathrooms there (and showers, and a locker room, and exercise equipment, etc.....). But I understand that a lot of the people there take that for granted.

    I grew up playing on public courts, and it's just understood that you make sure you've went to the bathroom before you go play, we never even imagine that there is going to be one anywhere near by.

    I think in USTA League it's pretty common there will be something there though. (it's usually at a club, or a park with bathrooms, or a high school)

    My team plays on these courts that are part of a High School but nowhere near the High School and we have a nice outhouse up there. I know a lot of the country club people hate playing us because of our lack of "facilitys" but too bad.

    But this Flex League thing is different, by definition you could be playing pretty much anywhere as long as there is a workable court.

    Really though I expect unless it's one of those dumb timed matches the match is going to take some random amount of time anyway so I dont necessarily know when it's going to finish.

    So if someone gets there and they need to go, I think it's fair to just let them go wherever they need to, and take care of their business and just start late. (especially if you've already went thru the trouble of rearranging your whole schedule to get to that point)
     
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  22. JavierLW

    JavierLW Hall of Fame

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    You should buy a net strap, they are less then $10 usually. I carry one in my bag for just such an occasion.

    Not having windscreens isnt a huge deal, where I play State League the High School doesnt put up windscreens in some years because the High School team apparently likes it that way. (and it's one of the windiest places to play in)

    Just because some spoiled players are not used to it, doesnt mean it's not "fair", everyone has to deal with the same conditions. (as long as the court and the net are in good condition)

    I agree with you about practicing in tough conditions. I practice my serve a lot in a place that is really hard to play at, and it really helps a lot.
     
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  23. SlapChop

    SlapChop Semi-Pro

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    I would never drive out and meet someone to play a match and leave without playing. I would be very mad if someone did this. What a waste of time.
     
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  24. LuckyR

    LuckyR Legend

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    While all of the posts on court issues are correct, as an aside, my guess is this individual is likely a very poor tennis player, skill-wise. We have all run into the excuse makers and they are usually terrible players.
     
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  25. grimmbomb21

    grimmbomb21 Professional

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    My opinion is that the op is right on. Default and move on to the next opponent. It sounds pretty obvious the lady didn't want to play that day and needed an excuse. No need to reschedule for a disrespectful snob such as her.
     
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  26. Ripper014

    Ripper014 Hall of Fame

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    True but why join a league... at some point you are going to have to play.
     
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  27. slice bh compliment

    slice bh compliment G.O.A.T.

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    Sorry that you are amazed! Sorry if it's a tired argument. For me, it's not even an argument, to be honest.

    There is a chance you might have misread me.

    When did I say anything about television? When did I say it wasn't important? It is important (for us tennis nuts to get our tennis in!)

    My point, (and I probably did not do a good enough job expressing it) is that a default is not the best way to end something like this .... and there's really no benefit to winning by default (the way there could be in a tournament that is for ranking points or money). But, naturally it's important -- it is recreational tennis, the most popular form of tennis played worldwide.

    What I think is important is the concept of getting to actually win on the court without some BS technicality like the abandonment of a match. What I feel is less than important or of lesser value is to have a 'win' on paper, by default avec asterisk.

    Again, it's rec tennis, which is important, and .... exactly why the tennis or the dealing should not be unpleasant. The clubby lady is clearly the unpleasant one...who does not respect the game or the time of others.

    I'm just advocating taking the high road and beating her on the tennis court rather than negotiating a default.

    Also, selfishly, I am on record with the anti-default position because I would like to look forward to hearing about the OP winning the match without the involvement of a league coordinator, whose thankless job is probably either unpaid or underpaid anyway.

    As a freshman, I remember a college match against a team my team had NEVER beaten. I was playing a junior with a nat'l ranking. I got up a break...to a 4-1 lead and the guy pulled a calf muscle while running for a dropvolley. I was going to win that set. Maybe the whole match! I wanted it badly. My whole team did. But my opponent retired at 1-4. Was it really a win for me? Cheap. My teammates were thrilled at the good start, but it wasn't really a win, y'know?

    Anyway, that's where I'm coming from. Sorry if you guys think that's bad.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2009
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  28. Ripper014

    Ripper014 Hall of Fame

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    Nope I totally agree with your assessment, I would much rather play than take a walkover. And you would think especially with league matches considering there are so few of them in a season.
     
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  29. Ripper014

    Ripper014 Hall of Fame

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    Nope I totally agree with your assessment, I would much rather play than take a walkover. And you would think especially with league matches considering there are so few of them in a season.

    But I do agree the woman was rude... which is why I would let her set up the match on her terms... (not ideal) but I just want to play. Plus how much better would it be to beat her on her terms.
     
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  30. kylebarendrick

    kylebarendrick Professional

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    For flex league I agree it is worth a shot to let the opponent setup the reschedule. If you can play the match that way then fine. If not, I'd just leave the match unplayed. The only way I'd consider defaulting her would be if you can't schedule a match and it would actually affect who wins the league.

    Defaulting somone over a match that doesn't matter (even if justified) can create bad blood that may come back at you in the future.
     
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  31. Tennisman912

    Tennisman912 Semi-Pro

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    Oldracquet27,

    I would have said something like “You certainly don’t have to play if you don’t want to. If you don’t want to stick to the match schedule you agreed to, you can just default your match. My time is valuable to me and this was a match previously agreed upon. If you have a problem with the courts or environment and we are scheduled for future matches, we can feel free to schedule our next scheduled match at a venue you are more comfortable in. So do you want to play or default? It is up to you.”

    Kill them with kindness but don’t’ give in. Never placate to those used to getting their own way. By rescheduling you are training her it is ok to behave this way and she will continue to do so to you and others. Best of luck in the future.

    TM
     
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  32. LuckyR

    LuckyR Legend

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    I know, weird isn't it?
     
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  33. Ripper014

    Ripper014 Hall of Fame

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    I cannot argue with this line of thought... and I agree with it, but the bottom-line is that I would like to play the match. And beating your *** would give me great pleasure.
     
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  34. JavierLW

    JavierLW Hall of Fame

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    If I misread you it's because you went on to rant about how it's not for ranking points, isnt on the pro circuit, etc....

    It's probably just a case of you tacking thoughts onto the issue to make it sound good on your part, but it doesn't make sense.

    If it's not so important then that's all the reason to just accept the default.

    I agree that defaults suck and winning the match is better, but at some point you need to draw the line and not bend over backwards to accommodate someone who CLEARLY could care less about you and will walk all over you if you let them.

    If there is any argument to me it's where that line is. I think this lady went way over that line since she actually showed up and then wouldn't play for some silly meaningless excuse.

    If she calls and says she cant make it and you have to rearrange your whole entire schedule (which the OP did already), then I think that's worth doing to play the match and not have a default.

    But the OP already did that, she actually showed up, wasted her time, and the person refused to play.

    Perhaps you have TONS of free time to waste, but not everyone does. (obviously they dont because they are in a FLEX league!!!!!) I say she wasted my time once, Im not going to give her the luxury of wasting my time again.

    (and it's not like I feel all that great about winning by default but that's the least they can do to punish someone like this...)
     
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  35. slice bh compliment

    slice bh compliment G.O.A.T.

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    Last edited: Nov 13, 2009
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  36. Annika

    Annika Semi-Pro

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    Being a public court person myself, I know many a times my courts are not AS perfectly kept as country club courts. But with a little measuring and sweeping, they're fine. No big deal to me.

    If she should want to reschedule, have her find the courts. We all want to hear about her well she plays now. :shock:
     
    #36
  37. Oldracquet27

    Oldracquet27 Rookie

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    Thank you to all ....

    It is so nice to know i can vent my fustration with you all, thanks for all your comments. But i got to say again, i want to play tennis of course, but as someone said before if i accept to reschedule after what she did , I am telling her that is okey the way she behaved, and she will go for life doing the same thing to others. I am sorry to tell you all my fellow tennis friends that " i have a plan" " a vengful plan ". She sent me an email today asking to reschedule, not apologies or anything. I will say yes, will set a date and i will make sure i will leave her waiting for me in the court with her outfit on and all!.. Please do not judge me, this is something i have never done, i don't think i would even think about something like that, but this girl treated me like s....t.
     
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  38. JavierLW

    JavierLW Hall of Fame

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    I know what you mean.

    I dont think it's even a matter of whether it's ill to default her or not at that point, it's just a matter of not having your time further wasted with this person.
     
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  39. JavierLW

    JavierLW Hall of Fame

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    Yes, generally when someone trys to throw an argument that is out of the norm and it's filled with irelevant sayings, life storys, etc..., that's kind of pointless.

    I never said I was "offended" though, I was just making a point that no matter what you're using the "this is not the pro's" excuse for, that is a poor excuse anyway....

    (which this one is, almost anyone else will say enough ill was done to the OP to at least warrent that she need not waste anymore time with this person).

    Whether it's a default or not doesnt really matter. What matters is that person treated her with disrespect and she does not need to waste her time any further.

    And that's where the line is drawn as far as Im concerned. Like I said, if the person calls ahead and says something comes up and they cant play, then you should try to play. It may still be inconvenient but it's still worth playing. (and the OP HAD already done this)

    But if they actually show up and refuse to play, or they flat out dont show, dont call, then you shouldnt feel obligated anymore to play on their terms. Just move on to the next opponent and hope that they are more respectful of your time then this person....

    And I dont think any of your warnings about "oooo.... if you default someone it makes it sound bad for you" or whatever are really a big deal. Anyone with half a brain will emphasis with the OP here.

    We cant all go around hoping to make the perfect decision worrying that everyone is looking down at us, especially when they are not very respectful in the first place.
     
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  40. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

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    #40
  41. mawashi

    mawashi Hall of Fame

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    I might consider playing on the first court if my opponent is laughing so hard he/she can't serve LOL!

    For the second I probably park my car thinking it was the parking lot.

    mawashi
     
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  42. JavierLW

    JavierLW Hall of Fame

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    I wouldnt play on any of them because there are serious issues with the nets. (especially the one without any net if Im looking at that right)

    I'll deal with cracks though and some deformitys on the court surface as long as it's safe, although Im not sure someone should have too, but if net is broken or lines are missing, then that's where I draw the line. (although if the net is just missing the center strap, I have one of those)

    The OP claims that her courts were "perfect" though so I take that at her word it means at least the net and court was okay, although I suppose there are always people with different opinions of what "perfect" means.

    I had to play half a set of a 7.5 Combo League match this year where the top net strap was broken and it was hanging off the net cord so you could actually hit the ball below the net cord. We had a lot of vicious net exchanges and neither my team or theres knew if the ball necessarily went over or under the net cord at times so we had to move.
     
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  43. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    As usual, Tennisman is spot-on. The best way to handle things is to *handle them.*

    As things stand now, I do not think you should stoop to her level and schedule a match and then stand her up. Two wrongs do not make a right. Karma Karma Chameleon, and all of that. :)

    If you don't think you have a strong enough case for a default, then just let her schedule the match and play her. Or don't. I wouldn't waste any more emotional energy on it.

    And yeah, country club people can be quite finicky about pretty much everything -- court condition, amenities, availability of bathrooms and water. I've even had a country club friend remark on the attire of other players -- not chic enough, it seems. My experiences with them haven't been especially positive. Me, I'm low maintenance. So long as the courts aren't slick, I'm good to go.
     
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  44. samster

    samster Legend

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    #44
  45. Oldracquet27

    Oldracquet27 Rookie

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    Nobody, those are not tennis courts!


    Trust me , the courts where perfect to play in. This park is always packed with tennis players, and coaches training juniors and adults.....Absolutely in good condition.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2009
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  46. Oldracquet27

    Oldracquet27 Rookie

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    You probably are right.....


    But, i am starting to realize that some people do not learn if they do not taste a little bit of their own medicine or "poison"?, anyway , what i mean is that i know how you think , i do think the same way too, we want to behave right, we are rational people, we are compassionate about others, but the thing is that some people are clueless and they just will keep doing it again again!. You might think she is sad about what she did ? NOT!!!! she isn't , otherwise, 1-)she would had apologized in her email asking to reschedule, or 2) she would feel so embarassed after what happened that she would never contact me again!.
     
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  47. JavierLW

    JavierLW Hall of Fame

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    I understand what you are saying, but I think when people are in your situation, there are really two issues involved:

    1) Protecting yourself and not wasting anymore of your time. (can be done simply by refusing to reschedule any longer)

    2) Trying to "teach her a lesson". We're adults, it's not really worth it to go thru the trouble of screwing someone just to "teach them a lesson".

    Trust me, this lady wont change anyway, and luckily she's not a friend, relative, co-worker, etc of yours so you need not worry too much about it.

    She's exactly the sort of person though that rules are made for. If I played her again, I would not give in to her, I would just be honest with her and if it was my home match she has a choice of showing up to play or not.

    If she doesnt want to play then that's her problem, she shouldnt sign up for a league like that then.
     
    #47
  48. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2007
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    NorCal Bay Area
    Found them doing a google pictures search. No idea where they actually are - thankfully I've never personally seen courts quite that bad!!!

    Thought I would include them in this thread for a laugh... didn't expect anyone to actually take the question seriously... :twisted: :shock:
     
    #48
  49. Steady Eddy

    Steady Eddy Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2007
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    Arizona
    But they don't learn even with a taste of their own medicine. She'll complain about you even though it's the exact same thing she did. People do that all the time. They have one standard for themselves, and another standard for everybody else. Guess they've never heard of Kant's 'categorical imperative'. ;)
     
    #49
  50. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    15,093
    The way to give them a "taste" is to tell them what they did wrong. Confront, confront and confront. If you calmly express the reason why you are unhappy, she will never forget it. If simply no-show, you relinquish the high road and she gets to go to her grave thinking YOU wronged HER.

    The best part about confronting people in a calm and rational way is that they never know quite what to say. Because they are so self-centered, it never occurs to them that someone might be unhappy with them. So you say your piece, and they stand their with their mouth open.

    And they don't think of a snappy come-back until about six hours later! "Well, the jerk store called and they're running out of you!" :)
     
    #50

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