Discussion in 'Racquets' started by TennisMaverick, Oct 22, 2011.
It is actually fuchsia, and it strings stiffer than the black Cyclone, but it feels more lively.
For those that have experience with this frame and the X8 315 can you compare them for me? I like the x8 315 but from what I read it seems the X10 may be a better fit. I'm a 5.0 all court player that needs an arm friendly stick that is control oriented and the X8 is a powerful beast that is fun at times but also a bit much at other times
What string tensions would you recommend for:
- soft co-poly mains (e.g. Weiss Cannon Black 5 Edge or Tourna Big Hitter Blue Rough) and soft multi crosses (e.g. Weiss Cannon Explosiv)
- full co-poly (e.g. Weiss Cannon Black 5 Edge or Tourna Big Hitter Blue Rough)
Should the crosses be strung higher or lower, and by how much?
I thought I replied to this. Maybe I didn't or it was removed.
If you don't have heavy, fast rotational groundstrokes for topspin, then I would recommend the X10 325, strung in the lower end of the recommended tensions. The X10 is more of a precision frame; the X8 is for ripping, but it does volley very solidly, especially lunge/stretch volleys, and works well for both spin and flatter serves. Basically, the X10 is a more nuanced frame.
Poly Main/Multi Cross: String the crosses higher. Use this formula for Volkl:
For Example: BHBR Main@50-3=47x115%=54.05lbs Multi Cross
Start from there and adjust as needed. Frequently, most players are going up anywhere from 5-10 lbs depending on stringer craftsmanship
Full Co-Poly: String the crosses looser 2-3 lbs, again craftsmanship dependent.
IMPO, the stick plays best when neither the mains nor the crosses move appreciatively more than the other, although, I have coached players who liked crosses which moved for deader string beds with more dwell time, and some who actually liked tighter crosses for a boardier feel.
First impressions of X10 325 from PB10 Mid user
I've just taken delivery of a new X10 325 which I ordered from TW strung with Gripper at 55/53 and have played about 3 hours with it.
To give some background to this, I am transitioning from a pair of PB10 Mids with TW leather grips, leaded up to about 355g and strung with Black Code 18 at 33/30. I am quite happy with the PB10 Mid but it gets challenging on some days when I'm not fully fit or because of weather or time constraints am unable to play regularly. The PB10 Mid has a great feel but it's not very forgiving if your footwork or timing is off by a bit. So with the recent run of bad weather here in Singapore (felt like it rained every afternoon from Oct to Dec) it hasn't been a lot of fun to play with the PB10 Mid as I'm usually not sharp enough to get the best out of it.
The overwhelming first impression of the X10 is the overall stiffness of the frame, particularly the head. The string bed is very stiff. In hindsight, after having read the comments on this thread and bearing in mind my PB10 Mid is strung (albeit with poly) at 33/30, I should have ignored the manufacturer recommended tensions and gone for something a lot lower. The strange thing is that although the overall effect of this frame/string combo is very stiff, there is very little jarring from the racket so I agree with the other posters who say that the vibration dampening is very very good. It does come at a cost however and I'm not getting the usual Volkl feel. This is more or less what I expected from reading the posts here. In any case it's early days yet so my hands may eventually "re-learn" how to read the signals from the handle (or perhaps not...).
The frame is extremely stable and I'm happy to play with it at stock weight vs the weighing up which I did on the PB10 Mid. I may experiment with some lead tape later on but for now it's extremely stable. It is also more directionally precise than the PB10 Mid. I have had problems with directional control on the PB10 M as I'm not sufficiently consistent in my timing coupled with the flexibility of the frame means I often miss the lines by a good foot or two.
I played with a Pro Staff 6.1 original many years ago and can see some of what TM mentioned in his original post. The ball feels like it leaves the X10 very quickly like it did in my memory of the 6.1.
When I switched back to the PB10 Mid for a few minutes, it felt C10-like in its flexibility whereas when I transitioned from the C10 to the PB10 Mid, the PB10 felt quite firm by comparison. You can really appreciate the dwell time of the PB10 on such back to back hits. One of the effects of this difference in dwell times is that I had to adjust the racket face angle on ground strokes. The dwell time of the PB10 Mid required me to close the face down in order not to hit long. On my first few hits with the X10, I was hitting into the net, particularly on the backhand side (not helped by the very tight string bed).
I am having some difficulty with my sliced backhands. They're either ballooning out or hitting the tape on the net and dropping back. I don't seem to be getting the same "lift" from the backspinning ball when slicing down that I got on the PB10 which allowed the ball to just clear the net. This has probably got to do with the dwell time on the strings and I'll need to figure out how to get this to work for me. Other than that, the amount of spin I'm getting seems to be on par or better than the PB10 Mid.
On serves, I don't think I'm getting as much pace as I was with my PB10 Mids but that could be down to the difference in weight and the tighter string bed on the X10. I'm not making any conclusions on this yet.
With the tighter string bed on the X10, I'm getting a lot more control on volleys vs the PB10 Mid.
Overall, the X10 is a whole lot easier to play with than the PB10 Mid. You can get away with poorer form and still produce a pretty decent ball.
As noted in the title, these are first impressions only as I'm not happy with the stringing. Gripper is not available in Singapore so I've restrung it with NRG2 at 40/38. It's a large drop from 55/53 but it felt really over the top stiff and I thought that drastic change was required.
Will post more after I've had an chance to hit with the new string job next week.
I moved to the X10 from the PB Mid a few weeks ago and agree with all of your conclusions (which I edited for brevity above). The PB 10 is a plush, soft, awesome feeling stick that demands precision on every swing. The X10 is stiffer and crisper feeling, but is noticeably more forgiving on all shots. And for me, the X10 is simply outstanding at the net.
On the X10, the ball leaves the strings quickly, while the PB 10 hangs onto the ball like the handshake of a close friend. That, combined with the softness of the stick, gives the PB 10 a delicious feel that I truly miss. However there is no question that I am a much better player with the X10.
The X10 does string tight(ly?), and I am going lower with each restringing. Lower is definitely better. I originally leaded up my X10 to match my PB 10, but yesterday removed the lead and honestly couldn't feel a big difference. Volleys required slightly more oomph, but that was about it.
I miss playing with my PB 10, but the X10 is a much better all around stick for me.
Interesting. As you know I did switch to the X10 due to the terrible golfer's elbow I have and playing with the X8 wasn't a great match for that
I actually have the playing style you mention for the X8 so that's likely why I liked it better than the X10 but I get better with the X10 daily but I am not a precise player and definitely hit a lot topspin off both sides. Too much in fact. My X10 has been an adjustment due to leaving the ball short in the court.
I'm dialing in the string and it is getting better, just don't get the free points the X8 gave me but I've also cut down unforced errors from the bazooka X8 so it is a trade off.
There have been many Nadal/Roddick sticks' users who have moved to the X10 325 because you can still get a lot of spin with it, yet, have much more precision. Your experience is common, but your improvement from the stick alone is what you should focus on. If you are cutting down on unforced errors, then will start winning more. At any level, a player needs to learn how to grind. On your worst day, sometimes, that's all you have.
Yes, I'm working in reverse. I am a Ferrer/Chang type that is now 41 years old playing college kids and trying to end points and not grind The X8 was a step in the right direction but with the arm friendly X10 I'll get there is it just a bit more difficult.
I tell you what I do: if I hit deep, they hit short and I can run them as I go to net. They will always try to pass--too much testosterone--so I close-in tight. If I hit short, I throw a fake and move or not move. If they hit the winner, so be it. Many times, the fake makes them miss or hit weaker/less precise than they should have, where I have another play on the ball. Otherwise, score one for youth. They don't like heavily sliced BHs either, not balls served into the body where they cannot swing away. One good pattern against another righty who is a youngster is to control the ad corners, hitting CCBHs or IOFHs, and then, run them with a slice BH DTL. Unless they're Fed, they'll shank or hit short CC to your FH. They hate low skiddy balls to their FHs on the run.
I agree with many of these posts. I tried X10 at medium to high tensions (like my old PB10 mid) and it was too far away from the traditional Volkl feel I like.
But drop the tension significantly (in my case low 40s) and the racquet becomes much better to play with. More forgiveness, nimble at volleying, good spin and not bad in the plow through stakes (coupled with spin). And best of all I'm winning more points with this and it doesn't trouble my elbow unlike some of the competitor sticks.
So yes, I miss my PB10 mid (and C10 Pro) but will continue with the X10 as I'm beginning to reap the rewards of this raquet. Just need to get used to it's more 'modern' feel.
"But drop the tension significantly (in my case low 40s)."
I assume you are using poly's. I am playing with full gut 53/50 and considering dropping further. Trying to find a good fit for my tender elbow.
I'm playing a gut/poly hybrid. I started at 55/51, dropped it to 50/47, and next time around I may go 3 or 4 lbs lower. It's pretty good right now--I would just like it to feel a little less crisp.
Gut/multi users on a CP machine are going as low as 48M/45C, without elbow/wrist issues.
Definitely no polys for me. Nearly had to give up tennis because of TE a few years ago. Had to take 2 years out when at its worst. Always tend to use full thin mutis or lately tried full gut in my C10 Pro - nice but expensive.
Gradually came back into playing using heavier flexy headlight sticks but now want to move to something that gives me more room for error but retaining a familiar feel. The X10 seems to fit and although stiffer than what I'm used to, it absorbs shock well so no ill effects so far.
Perhaps I am confused but I thought crosses should be strung 2-albs lower than mains. Is it just the opposite as you indicated in your posts. Thanks as always. I use a full gut bed of Bab VS team 17.
Will get back to you on other matter.
What if you do not pre-stretch?
I would advise 50 across the board. With your arm issues, I would also sting another at 45 across the board to try.
So, I tried a bunch of 2012 racquets these past few weeks - from the Yonex xi98 to the Donnay Pro One and the Wilson Juice - and I'm back with my trusty X10 325s. No other racquet slices as well or is as comfortable on my tender arm. The organix mix also allows me to pull off more stick saves than any other racquet I've tried. So after having a wandering eye, I'm happy to settle down once more...for now
Did you demo the new Prestiges?
No, I've never been a Prestige fan...
Any word on the Yonex Xi98? I've been eying, it's a gorgeous PJ!
Thanks a ton TM!
Well I keep lowering the tension in hopes of getting rid of the pinging in the stringbed, but I think I've gone too low (47/44 gut-poly hybrid). The bed feels too "slingy" if that makes any sense. It is still crisp feeling as well, and not quite as accurate as at higher tensions. Even though I like lower tensions, I'm going 53/50 next time around. I also may try a worm dampener for the pinging.
I have decided to just take some time off since my golfer's elbow just won't get better even with the X10 325 strung low. I must say the X10 is growing on me more each day and I have been playing very well but just miss the power of the X8 315. So addicting just a tad overbearing for me. We'll see once my arm is strong enough to use both pain free.
The one racket that has intrigued me is the Radical IG Pro. Did you try that by chance? You said you are not a Prestige guy (which I always have been).
I have repeatedly alluded to my GE on this site.. You do need to rest
The arm because at some point no matter how soft a racket the elbow will not heal. There is a product that provides enormous benefit that is added to the handle that makes a huge difference. There is only 1 site to purchase so feel free to contact me via email. I would be happy to suggest what worked best to heal the elbow as well.
Forward me the site whenever you have the time. Thanks!!!
Is this true of all Volkls?
I have just gotten a C10, and it too plays "muted". I would not say it is soft; the RA stiffness number is 63, just like my Dunlop 300s. The C10 seems very solid if a little too head-light.
But it certainly does not have any of the wonderful crisp feedback "feel" of the Dunlops.
Nor does it feel hollow and "plasticky" like a few Babs I have tried, and not heavy and stiff and dead like some Princes.
The Yonex xi98 is truly a beautiful frame. It plays quite muted compared to other racquets I've used. I also find it relatively low-powered and more control oriented, which is what I think Yonex was going for. It does everything reasonably well, but nothing spectacular, at least from my perspective.
No, I haven't tried the new Head Radical IG Pro, though it definitely caught my eye. I like its weight and stiffness rating. That said, I've never hit with a racquet that can do so much as the X10 325, strung low. The feel is quite addictive and my shots are more precise than with other racquets.
The X10 325, strung within recommended tension range, is about as muted as an aluminum baseball bat to your skull. It's a totally new feel in a tennis racquet, it is crazy crisp, and has a ton of bite. Think: the pop of a Wilson 6.1 with the bite of a Nadal stick, without the vibration or arm jarring of either. If you string it below recommended tension, or weight-it-up--which reduces string tension comparatively in feel--then, it will feel muted.
Well I am officially on sabbatical due to this arm issue. Played a match tonight on our 4.5 team and won 7-5, 6-7, 7-6 so what a way to head out to break. Exhausted but worth the fight
X10 did its thing, may just stick with it once arm is healed.
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Second session with Organix 10 325
Played with the frame for the second time last Friday. As mentioned in my previous post, I had it restrung with NRG2 at 40/38.
Unfortunately this session didn't turn out so well. The lower tension hasn't changed the feel very much. The frame gives very little feedback on where the ball contacted the stringbed so you have to find other ways to figure out what's going on. In particular I had difficulty modulating between hitting into the net or hitting out, with very little in between. I was getting killed by my playing partner because those groundstrokes which I managed to keep in were at a comparatively friendly pace and in his hitting zone.
Part of the problem seems to be that I'm not applying as much spin on the ball as I normally to with the PB10 Mid. My usual shots are landing out so I'm getting tentative on my shots and not hitting as hard as I usually do.
After about a hour of this, I switched back to my PB10 Mid. Suddenly my shots were back. I was able to hit my usual weight of shots, the backhand slice was working again, etc. The dwell time and feedback on the PB10 Mid is pretty amazing.
So it seems that I went too far on the tension reduction with the X10, but it's difficult to tell because the it feels very similar to the previous string job, only less harsh. There is no additional "give" in the string bed to tell you what's happening. I was playing better with the previous string job in the mid range of the recommended tension but I disliked the feel with that setup.
I also think that my swing speed is such that I need a heavier racket to produce my usual weight of shot. My PB10 Mids are around 370g (just weight them on a electronic scale yesterday) so for my next playing session I've leaded up the X10 to bring it from 335g to about 350g.
If I were to summarise it, the PB10 Mid is old school analogue vs the X10's fly by wire digital controls. I'll need to find a way to get the X10 to work for me if I'm going to use this frame going forward. Will report more when I've had a chance to hit again with the leaded up frame which may not be for a while as I haven't been able to get a court booking this week.
As an aside, I wonder if I should have gotten a BB Melbourne instead of the X10. My playing partner purchased a BB Legend on a lark as it was on a run out price. I played with is for about 15 minutes. Great feel, like a larger, slightly stiffer PB10. I was immediately comfortable with it, minimal adjustment required. I do agree that the balance is somewhat clunky - feels like there is too much weight in the head. I was somewhat concerned with the BB Melbourne given TM's comments about the need to be very precise in hitting the middle of the frame. However I was surprisingly comfortable with the Legend, again strung at mid-range of the recommended tension. More experimentation is called for.
So I got my used volkl organix 10 325 today. It weighs in at 342 g with overgrip and rubberband. Strung with:
Kirschbaum Spiky Shark 17g (Mains) @ 46 lbs
Pro Supex Maxim Touch 17g (Crosses ) @ 48 lbs
My current setup is a pb10 mid about 360g. 3g of lead at 12 oclock, 1g each at 10 and 2 oclock. Msv focus hex/prince synthetic gut at 54/51 (m/c).
I'm not sure if I like it, but not totally disappointed. Whereas the pb10 hits with a satisfying "thump, " the X10 sounds more like a weak "twing." I don't know if it's due to the loose strings but, my volleying didn't seem as controlled. Also, it felt "light" compared to my pb10. I think I want to lead it up similar to my pb10, and perhaps increase the tensions. I was thinking 1g of lead each at 9, 12, and 3 oclock, and some lead at the handle to counterbalance. I might restring at 51/49 msv/psgd. Any other alternate suggestions?
I was coming through the contact zone a little early, so I added 4" of 1/4" lead on each side of the frame at 10/2. I really like this added weight. Btw, I also came from a PB10 mid with the same lead setup as you.
A leather grip, a wee bit of lead @ 10 and 2, and a full multi string job.
And give it some time.
I came to the X10 from the PB 10 and I never got the X10 to feel like the PB 10. As someone said, the X10 is "twangy" while the PB 10 is quiet and solid. I did put a worm dampener on the X10 for a while and it killed all the twanging, so I may go back to that.
I tried higher and lower tensions, and never matched the stringbed feel of the PB either.
I also tried matching the SW and overall weight of the PB 10 and the bottom line is that they are two pretty different racquets.
I definitely play better with the X10 and am completely used to it now, so it's all good. But IMO it is definitely not going to remind you of the PB 10 regardless of how you set it up.
Got thru my 2nd session with the x10. I pretty much agree with what everyone posted so far. Stiffer. No vibration like pb10. More forgiving. I didn't notice any more spin than the pb10, however. I liked ripping the forehand but touch and defensive shots, and lobs landed long. I guess the strings were too loose and it had a sling shot effect. I will try to restring higher. Perhaps 50# with msv hex/psgd.
I added lead 1g at 12, 1.5g each at 10 and 2. 2g at handle. Stick now weighs 348g.
I think I might have to agree with you, even if I've only had the racquet a short time.
What is your current setup? Strings and tension?
I thought you were playing with the x10 stock? What strings and tension are you using?
I'm playing Pacific Classic gut 16 mains and MSV Hepta Twist 17 crosses. I've tried as high as 55/51 and as low as 47/43 and I'm settling on 55/51 because the lower tensions get too "slingy" as they wear. I've tried other setups, but I haven't found anything that spins the ball like this combination of strings.
That's just utter nonsense. Can't talk about the APDC but the 6.1 doesn't vibrate or jar the arm at all.
Oh wait....the greatest purveyor of non-Volkl misformation and paranoia is no longer with us.
Thank the heavens.
I was playing it stock, but noticed that I was hitting slightly early, especially on return of serve. The added swing weight is just enough to slow my swing down slightly. I've been using Babolat Xcel 17 black at 54/51.5, though I'm about to get my other 3 X10s strung with Wilson natural gut 17 this week. I've also had good success with Head PPS synthetic gut 17 at 44lbs.
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