OU Coach John Roddick's First Recruit

Discussion in 'College Tennis Talk' started by ttbrowne, Sep 4, 2009.

  1. ttbrowne

    ttbrowne Hall of Fame

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    NORMAN, Okla. - Oklahoma men's tennis head coach John Roddick announced today the addition of Costin Paval to the 2009 tennis roster. Paval becomes Roddick’s first recruit after taking over as head coach in June.

    Paval, a Romanian native, becomes the highest-ranked player to sign with the Sooners after reaching a career-high ATP, Association of Tennis Professionals, ranking of 907. In doubles, Paval was ranked as high as 676 nationally. Paval’s career record is 33-29 and his resume boasts a Romanian National Title.

    “He is a great recruit for us to get and we are really excited he decided to join us in the fall,” said OU head coach John Roddick. “He is a player who has been as high as 900 in the ATP rankings which usually translates into having a very successful college career. Hopefully, we can work with him and develop the talent he possesses.”

    With such a lofty ranking Roddick feels that his first recruit can have a big influence on the current Sooner tennis program.

    “He is going to be a big contributor for us, both in singles and doubles,” Roddick added. “We expect him to come in and work to play higher in the singles lineup. I think that is where he can contribute for us and win a lot of matches. Not every recruit that comes in has that chance. He has the ability and the chance to really have an impact in some of the higher spots of the singles lineup.”

    Roddick is excited about his newest addition, but Paval beams with excitement at the thought of playing for such a prestigious coach.

    “I thought it would be the perfect opportunity,” said Paval. “When I heard it was coach Roddick I thought, ‘Wow,’ I would do anything to play for him.”
     
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  2. papatenis

    papatenis Semi-Pro

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    are there no american junior he could've recruited? seems like this guy is a profession, who couldn't make it as a pro and decided to come to america and take a scholarship that should've gone to an american junior!
     
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  3. ClarkC

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    I don't know of any American recruits who are #900 on the ATP rankings who are available and interested in Oklahoma. Do you?
     
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  4. ttbrowne

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    Could be he's interested in tennis...and an education.
     
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  5. ihearit1st

    ihearit1st Rookie

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    I, like you, am a fan of having predominately American players on a college team. After all, its American tax dollars that are funding those public institutions. But I do think its okay to bring in foreign talent as long as its not done because you can't or are to lazy to recruit Americans. I like Ohio State's recruiting technique. Their varsity players last year were split pretty evenly between nationalities, and this year there will be more Americans. Several other schools are like this as well. Its the American way, like it or not, to open our doors to others. Roddick will be great at recruiting good old American boys. His recruiting season was short this year, so I'm sure he got the best players he could.
     
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  6. goober

    goober Legend

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    This guy is waaayyy better than any American junior he could have recruited. Oklahoma is a mid tier D1 university. Roddick's responsibility is to build a winning team. That is what he is going to be judged on. First he has to build the program to national prominence before he can get top American recruits (a 907 ATP ranked player would be cream of the crop from the US). If Roddick recruits American juniors only and finishes at the bottom half of the Big 12 consistently guess who is getting fired? Guess who also gets labelled a mediocre coach (which will affect the rest of his career after college coaching as well)
     
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  7. stanfordtennis alum

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    great recruit from john's end.. this guy will be a huge asset to oklahoma
     
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  8. papatenis

    papatenis Semi-Pro

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    who would not want a player that was ranked that high on the atp.
    the problem i have is that its one less spot/scholarship for an american kid. last year arizona state lost it mens tennis program, that means that there is one less school for kids to play tennis at. it was rumored that the athletic director wanted the coach to recruit more american kids but he refused.
    its sad that if a kid plays high school tennis, he really has no chance of playing college tennis unless he was a high ranked junior. why should it be a good mix if half the team is made up of foreign players? why cant we have teams that are made up of all american kids?
     
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  9. ClarkC

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    We can. They just won't win a national title, so few top 10 schools (which have title ambitions) will do that.

    Here's a good way to look at it. Because other countries don't have athletic scholarships to colleges, their very top players will turn pro at 17 or 18. The guys who are just short of being good enough to turn pro at that age are VERY good. In fact, in any given year, the very best player in, say, Romania, might be just short of turning pro. So, college in the USA is a great option for him.

    Because there are so many countries, the NCAA Division I programs might only get the top 2-3 non-pro kids out of Romania this year. Then they get 1-3 kids each from Estonia, Hungary, Slovakia, Austria, Slovenia, Mexico, Argentina, etc., etc., etc. They get more than that from bigger countries like Germany, France, England, Spain, Italy, etc.

    So, the top NCAA division I teams try to sign the very top American kids, of which there are only 50 each year who can contribute at that level, and only about 20 who will likely get into the top 6 in the lineup, then they move on to top foreign kids. So, the #51 kid in America is competing with the #2 kid in Romania or the #1 kid in Latvia or the #2 kid in Bulgaria for a spot.

    This is why the America-haters (most of whom are themselves American) are way off base when they post their diatribes about how American kids cannot get the scholarships because they are rich and spoiled and don't work hard, etc. NCAA schools can cherry pick from just the top few kids in each country, and our kids ranked from 51-100 are competing with kids ranked in the top 5 or 10 in their countries in many cases.

    Yes, a coach could go the all-American route, but he needs to sign 2-3 kids each year entirely from the top 20 domestic recruits. For obvious mathematical reasons, only a few colleges can do that. Stanford often does it. They also are not winning national titles recently.

    How many schools want top 20 domestic recruits? Georgia, Stanford, Virginia, Texas, Texas A&M, USC, UCLA, Illinois, Ohio State, Tennessee, Florida, Florida State, Miami, Mississippi, etc. I don't think this many schools can get 2-3 from the top 20 each year. But they can get 1-2 from the top 20 and 1-2 from overseas who are equivalent. If they refuse to do that, they fall behind. Simple as that; a numbers game.
     
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  10. runningmann

    runningmann Rookie

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    Maybe you guys should be happy that he can help someone achieve both an education and an improvement in his game, rather than complain about the "taxpayers money" that was wasted on him. Did you know that NONE of the taxpayers money goes to scholarships?


    good for you
     
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  11. ClarkC

    ClarkC Hall of Fame

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    Actually, that is not true. The tuition price at a state school does not cover the cost of an education. The difference is made up from private donors and funds from the state government, a.k.a. the taxpayers.

    A highly successful athletic program would be one that needs no subsidy from the university. There are a few dozen such universities; you seem to be assuming that 100% of universities fall into this category, which is untrue. At Virginia, which is an example of a successful athletic department, the Virginia Athletic Foundation raises enough money in donations each year to pay for athletics, along with profits from the few profitable sports (football and basketball).

    However, the price that the university charges the athletic department for scholarships is $X, the official tuition rate, not $X+$Y, the real cost of educating a student. Thus, athletes, like other students, have the difference made up partly by Virginia taxpayer dollars.

    The taxpayer subsidy would be even more at a school with a less successful athletic department, less private giving, etc. There are many colleges that are forced to subsidize their athletic departments from general funds.

    As you can see from my other postings, I don't have a problem with foreign recruits, but this incorrect argument appears on this board all the time and needs to be refuted.
     
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  12. goober

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    Are you somehow implying that ASU cut mens tennis because the AD wanted more Americans on the team and the coach refused? Now that is the biggest laugh I have had in awhile. The state of Arizona had a budget deficit in 2008 like many other states. The board of regents approved a 26 million dollar cut. The AD was forced to cut a bunch of programs. It was strictly a financial decision as well as one to be in compliance with title IX. Mens swimming and wrestling were cut as well. If the AD was so concerned about having Americans on college teams then why did she cut wrestling which had 100% Americans and swimming which was 90% Americans? Seriously where do people come up with this stuff?

    As for your other comment, Americans have plenty of opportunity to play college tennis. I would amend your statement to say you have little chance to play D1 tennis unless you are a highly ranked junior. There are plenty of opportunities in D2, D3, NAIA and junior colleges.
     
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  13. papatenis

    papatenis Semi-Pro

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    clarkC, you made things clearer for me, basically its a numbers game.
    at winter nationals last year, they had a for profit college placement co. give a seminar about how to get your child into a college tennis program. one of the speakers was a former coach at either northwestern or illinois mens team. he said that he preferred foreigners players because they were older, mature, had pro experience, worked harder than american kids, could do their own laundry and most of all they didn't need their parents to hold their hands. when i heard that i was shocked. is it just this one coach or is this the general feeling of all coaches. to me, what he is really saying is that "if the school allows me to recruit a foreign player, i'll do it because it is easier on me".
     
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  14. papatenis

    papatenis Semi-Pro

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    PHP:
    [quote="goober, post: 3896174"]Are you somehow implying that ASU cut mens tennis because the AD wanted more Americans on the team and the coach refused?  

    i heard that from a friend of my son, who plays for uci, where one of the asu players transfered to
     
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  15. ttbrowne

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    I think it means a better college tennis environment.
     
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  16. OleNole

    OleNole Rookie

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    The most interesting part of this story, from my perspective, is that Roddick was able to sign this young man so quickly and to a school such as Oklahoma. I'd imagine that if this player has any kind of success, whatever school John Roddick coaches at will suddenly become THE destination for the kind of players Clark talked about: international guys just short of a pro career who know John coached a perennial top 10 player and who are hoping he can get them onto the tour.

    The question becomes, and I know this is quite premature as he's yet to actually coach a match, if you're a school that competes for national championships in tennis, do you try to hire Roddick for the edge it seems likely to give you in recruiting?
    One would assume he's given this player a full scholarship; obviously he can't do that with every player he wants, but he might be able to sign one top international player a year and get 4 and 3 star American recruits (in particular doubles specialists) to fill out the bottom of his lineup based on his last name. To me, this is even more effective at schools like Stanford, UCLA, Duke, etc. where he could offer American players a great education, though very little in scholarship monies.
     
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  17. 10isDad

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    You do know that in their last year, over half the players on the team were domestic and 3 were starters (including the current UCI player). 5 domestic, 4 foreign.

    I've spoken to the coach you speak of, and my son trains with the former asst. coach. Both have basically reiterated what ClarkC so aptly stated: there are only so many top US players and there is a pretty large pool of foreign players. The very top US players tend to pick those few schools that are considered the top echelon. Their job was to put together a competitive program within one of the toughest conferences around.

    Finally, for those that say there aren't enough opportunities for US players, if you look at the commitment list on tennisrecruiting.net, you'll see of the top 200 players who have committed on their list, 169 committed to DI schools, 28 to DIII schools and 3 to DII schools. My guess is lots of those DIII guys wanted to go to a DIII school because they want the small college atmosphere, because they realize they have a better chance of playing higher in the line-up, etc.

    If you continue to go down the list, you'll see there were plenty of 2-star and 1-star players that committed to D-I schools. They may not be at those "top echelon" D-I schools, some may not play in the Spring, but they found a D-I program.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2009
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  18. 10isDad

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    I dumped the committment list into a database and excluded all the TRN foreign listings, only going with the standard 'star' ranked players.

    There's a list of 568 names with valid schools. Of these 568, 305 opted to go to DI schools, 43 to DII and 198 to DIII

    D1: 20 Blue Chip, 43 5-star, 77 4-star, 72 3-star, 36 2-star, 57 1-star
    D2: 0 Blue Chip, 0 5-star, 1 4-star, 5 3-star, 11 2-star, 26 1-star
    D3: 0 Blue Chip, 0 5-star, 19 4-star, 40 3-star, 37 2-star, 102 1-star
    NAIA: 0 Blue Chip, 0 5-star, 0 4-star, 0 3-star, 1 2-star, 11 1-star
    NJCAA: 0 Blue Chip, 0 5-star, 0 4-star, 2 3-star, 2 2-star, 2 1-star
    CCC: 0 Blue Chip, 0 5-star, 0 4-star, 0 3-star, 0 2-star, 4 1-star
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2009
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  19. schap02

    schap02 Semi-Pro

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    Lets not forget the one big fact here. College tennis isn't up to par with college basketball or college football in terms of popping out professionals.

    The kid wants and EDUCATION and also why the heck not come to USA and go to a large school like OU?
    Seems like a fine choice to me, coach or no coach....
     
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  20. 2ndServe

    2ndServe Professional

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    what has john roddick done to become a known coach? As far as I know the important coaching job he had was coach Andy Roddick and andy played some of his worst tennis at that time.
     
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  21. atatu

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    Last edited: Sep 15, 2009
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  22. OleNole

    OleNole Rookie

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    Coaching a world number 1 and Grand Slam winner isn't enough? I'd think that would look pretty darn impressive to an international player looking to jump from 900 or 1000 in the world to 100 or 200 in the world. Most juniors would kill to have John's experience just being around Andy, knowing how top pros train first hand. If anything, he's overqualified.
     
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  23. Gemini

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    John Roddick's also a former collegiate player from The University of Georgia. Many college players eventually make the leap to coaching at the collegiate level.
     
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  24. ClarkC

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    Oklahoma has had a Romanian assistant coach for several years, and the connection has produced several Romanian recruits in recent years before John Roddick ever got there.
     
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  25. OleNole

    OleNole Rookie

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    Oh, that was obviously a factor then. Thanks.
    Also, your hoos look like the odds on favorite for the team championship this year, but I'm looking at the acceptance lists for the D'Novo, and nowhere on it do I see Julien Uriguen. Is he still playing for Virginia this year? I see a number of other freshmen in the qualies and pre-qualies: Duke's Cunha, Virginia's Jenkins, Vandy's Lipman, Stanford's Kandath in doubles.
     
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  26. ClarkC

    ClarkC Hall of Fame

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    Julen Uriguen is playing ITF and other tourneys this fall and enrolling in January.
     
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  27. Daycrawler

    Daycrawler Rookie

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    Yeah. Ha that ^ is definitely not true. I talked to a few former players and none of them stated anything to that degree. I'm a good friend of one of the players too so he wouldn't be lying.
    Off Topic, but, As for your UCI(University of California,Irvine) player, I hear he's transferring back to ASU...
     
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  28. papatenis

    papatenis Semi-Pro

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  29. racingdad23

    racingdad23 Semi-Pro

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    I think the program would have benefited far more from recruiting an american player.

    As a Sooner fan I'm far more interested in seeing American players. I cant figure out why we just dont go to Texas and get some tennis players. It works for Sooner football :)
     
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  30. ttbrowne

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    Look at it this way...OU football can't win without any Texas players and OU tennis can't win without any foreign players.
     
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  31. T10s747

    T10s747 Rookie

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    Now that Roddick is coaching college, did he close his academy?
     
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  32. 35ft6

    35ft6 Legend

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    I don't disagree with the notion that public schools should try to give athletic scholarships to Americans.
     
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  33. andfor

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    Agreed. But, trying to give scholarships to Americans who can help D1 college tennis teams win and finding qualified Americans who fit the description who will actually accept are a problem. Here's two examples I've recently came across. I know of many more.

    Recent H.S. grand, top 75 in the Southerns (would be top 50 but stopped playing big tournaments mid-way into senior year) looked at a number of mid-major D1 shcools and a couple of larger mid-majors. Choose not to play college tennis and instead attend a large SEC school. Likely could have walked on there but chose not to.

    I know of a D1 coach at a very large institution who has given up on recruiting Americans having lost some many (roughly 99%) to larger more "prestigious" rival schools. Gets his players from oversees and competes well in their conference. Even been to the NCAA's. Spens less energy recruiting Americans and finds it easier to get the forigners who do not have preconcieved notions of what colleges they should attend for academics and tennis.

    I'd like to know out of curiosity how many top sectional American players choose not to play college tennis every year. Bet the number would be higher than we think.
     
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  34. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

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    BTW. If John Roddick is going to compete for championships in the Big12 he's going to have to go far and wide to find the caliber player to do so. Until there's regulation limiting the number forigners on tennis teams (don't see it happening anytime soon) the status quo will remain.
     
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  35. forecast

    forecast New User

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    Is the cause absense of feeling of belonging when most of team is foreign?

    Andfor's story about a coach who looks mostly to foreign players losing 99 percent of his American players fits with the warnings that we received. If you are an American that is considering playing on a college where much of the team is foreign, that the team it will often lack the feeling of belonging, will lack the shared experience necessary for creating a strong feeling of team loyalty and that in the years after college one largely loses contact with the players on the team who are not Americans.
     
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  36. JLyon

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    Call BS on this, having coached 3 years on teams that were 50/50 Foreigners to 2/3 foreigner and the players got along great. Typically the American players were the ones who isolated themselves or were not overly enthusiastic to continue improving their games while the foreign players not only worked hard ont he courts they also busted tail in the classroom.
     
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  37. Fedace

    Fedace Banned

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    Can't you say something fun for a change.... Anyway, this team won't even be ranked in top 60 in division 1 this year. Lots of Beating in coming season.
     
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  38. forecast

    forecast New User

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    Thanks for the big welcome, My post is not BS, rather that is is advice received, maybe it was good advice, maybe it was bad advice, but it truly was actual advice that we got. . . . and it resonated with us. While respecting the significant experience that you have, what I wrote is a true perspective that exists.

    And it still makes sense if you grew up in these great United States of America, and go to college in this country, but are on a team that is two thirds foreign its natural that you are going to hang with Americans on campus, rather than some short time visa holders.

    Why such any anti-American attitude??
     
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  39. 35ft6

    35ft6 Legend

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    Never considered that. But it just seems wrong for US tax dollars to subsidize a foreigners education. And I'm no isolationist, but in this instance, with higher education costs sky rocketing, maybe the overall quality of NCAA tennis should take a hit for the greater good.
     
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  40. JLyon

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    I get tired of the argument becuase there are more than enough scholarships available for American Players, yet many times the Americans do not want to Directional State Univ. to play. The Americans would rather go to State U. only and then give up.
    Example go to UT-Austin or UT-Arlington? Go to LSU or ULL, go to Arky St or UofA, I could on and on. There is a reason why many of the smaller schools in small cities must go foreign to field a solid team and that is because the actual players who are ready for college tennis will not even give them a second look. The foreign players are fine going to Directional U. to play tennis and get an education.
     
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  41. andfor

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    Kinda like when Stanford last played U of Tulsa?
     
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  42. ttbrowne

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    Are you talking 2008?
     
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  43. martywebster

    martywebster New User

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    Why would you feel any less connected to your university and team that you train with 6 days a week, because you weren't born in the same country as one another. Do you really believe that you have to be born in the same country to be loyal to one another. I think a foreign player would have more loyalty to the university they play for as they generally dont know much about other universities and arent pressured to think X of a particular university. Just becaues there are foreigners on the team doesn't mean that they are going to backstab the team.
     
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  44. beststringer

    beststringer Rookie

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    American tax dollars are not funding sports at big football programs like Texas and Oklahoma. Sports pay for themselves in those big schools.
     
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  45. cmb

    cmb Semi-Pro

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    ^^^^^^ well said
     
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  46. JW10S

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    I played on scholarship for an NCAA Championship team that was made up mostly of foreign players (I won't say whether or not I was one of those foreign players). College tennis coaches are hired to win, if that means bringing in foreign players to do that so be it. A coach who recruits only US players just to be politically correct won't last long.
     
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  47. ClarkC

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    Not really. The cost of education is funded from three main sources at a state university:

    1. State government appropriations
    2. Tuition
    3. Endowment income and other donations

    This is pretty much the order from greatest dollars to fewest. This year, the state of Virginia is funding colleges less because of the economy, and it was noted that this is the first time ever that the tuition component is slightly bigger than the state funding.

    The athletic department is charged the costs of tuition, fees, textbooks, room and board for each full time equivalent scholarship. But tuition is already an artificially low number, below actual cost, due to the state funding. Even out of state tuition is usually below the cost of education, although not by nearly as much as in state tuition.

    So, even if an athletic department claims to be a totally separate budget that needs no subsidy from the university, there is a taxpayer cost in the form of state government per-student funding. This is true even at Texas and Oklahoma.

    Then there are the many colleges whose athletic departments are not in the black. From one third to two thirds of NCAA Division I athletic departments require subsidy from the general university budget. Most of them try not to publicize the figures. The situation at Cal-Berkeley was discussed in detail here recently. The athletic department there is losing money and receiving funds from the university budget.
     
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  48. miniRafa386

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    they got john warden and jason simon now
     
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  49. beststringer

    beststringer Rookie

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    http://www.texassports.com/genrel/110107aaa.html

    "Receiving no public or taxpayers' funding, UT Athletics has a financial model that others admire and attempt to emulate."

    UT is probably more of an exception. I agree. Not everyone can have a great football team. (a great football team with a **** chicken QB is even more rare).

    one of the reasons many schools' programs are in red is because they have to provide equal funding to women's programs that don't generate the same amount of revenue.
     
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  50. dennis10is

    dennis10is Banned

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    UT history is an interesting one. The state gave UT usless dessert land. ha ha.

    Oil was found on these lands, oh oh :)

    UT owns these lands so they let oil companies drill on them and they receive a payment on these oil. Hence, UT doesn't not need any FURTHER funding from the state.

    Realize though that the land that UT owns was originally public lands. The politicians thought they were smart in granting useless land to UT.

    UT is unique in that it is the Publically originated land endowment that has allowed UT to fund everything. It does not need tuition, nor further contribution of the community but of course it does ask for it. UT is a great eduational deal for residents. I also believe that they are very generous to non-resident also. Residency qualification are easy to meet.

    I have friends who are alum and classmates who are faculty there but as a child of the UC, I have to have a dislike for those hookem horns. :)

    Great school though
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2010
    #50

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