Over 45 and dragging? Consider getting your testosterone checked.

Discussion in 'Health & Fitness' started by Lil123, Oct 5, 2012.

  1. Lil123

    Lil123 New User

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    Get that Testosterone level checked if any of this sounds familiar.

    I'm an avid 4.5 tennis player who is fast approaching 5.0; not as in the USTA rating (don't think I'll ever get there), but rather as in decades on earth. I'm also a lifelong fitness obsessive who has always taken very good care of himself.

    Though I've always supported my tennis with plenty of weight and aerobic training, It's always seemed like I suffer more aches and pains - including tennis-elbow, shoulder pain, sore feet, etc. - than nearly all of the far less conditioned guys I play with. Whereas they could play three or four days in a row without problem, I struggled after just two. Playing three days straight would leave me feeling like I had the flu.

    Within the past year my energy has plummeted. ..To the point where I needed to take a full 30 min. nap (sometimes in my car) before taking to the court, otherwise I'd be very sluggish w/ slow reflexes. It became a problem with work where I needed to take a catnap before driving back from account visits. ..So off to the doc I went thinking I have lyme disease, mono or something more scary. The doc ordered a bunch of blood work. To my surprise, my T level was 196 which is about the average for a 75 year old. To rule out the affects of a virus or lab variability my doctor ordered three more T tests over several weeks. They all showed similar levels. ..Then a brain and scrotal MRI to rule out pituitary issues and testicular cancer. ..Both were fine. So the diagnoses was primary hypogonadism and a script for Androgel 1.62% was proposed. Fearful of the side effects, I was very reluctant. But the doc informed me that leaving it untreated meant risking osteoporosis, cognitive decline, and heart problems later in life. The goal is to raise my T to the 400-600 range. ..So I agreed and have been taking it for about 3 weeks now.

    I bring this up here because the affect on my tennis has been terrific. ..Not because I'm playing with greater strength, or endurance (though both have improved slightly) but rather b/c I'm no longer plagued by these constant aches and pains. My shoulder pain, TE, and foot pain have improved considerably. ..Plus, my overall recovery time is MUCH improved. I'm able to play consecutive days without feeling increasingly weary.

    So if any of this sounds like you, it may be worth your while to ask your doc for a T check. ..But don't rush into it b/c there are side-affects, plus it's likely a lifelong commitment and can be expensive.
     
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  2. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly G.O.A.T.

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    It is possible that low testosterone levels are related to a decrease in the production of Pregnenolone and DHEA from the adrenal glands. These hormone levels usually peak in the mid 20s and then drop off as we age. Supplementation of Preg and DHEA have been prescribed for some health issues. However, I believe, there has not been much study done on long-term supplementation of these hormones.

    http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/dhea/NS_patient-dhea

    Probably the best way to test for Preg/DHEA levels is to test for the levels of DHEA Sulfate (DHEAS) in the body. This can achieved with either testing of blood/plasma or saliva. Testosterone can also be check with blood or saliva testing. Not certain if one is considered significantly more reliable than the other. Here is the view of a doctor with an integrative medicine bias:

    http://www.drmarcantel.com/hormone-testing-saliva-or-serum-blood-test

    If you decide to use Preg and DHEA supplements, be sure to have your DHEAS and testosterone levels checked periodically. While many of these supplements will not affect affect Preg, DHEA and testosterone levels in the blood very much, some will have a very profound effect on some users.

    Hormone delivery thru the digestion system is not a natural process. Many supplement users will derive very little benefit from ingesting many of the DHEA products on the market because of this. Some versions of DHEA supplements will be assimilated better than others. Sublingual Pregnenolone is one way to effective increase Preg, DHEA and testosterone levels. DHEA or Preg creams can also be very effective.

    Care should be taken to ensure that testosterone levels, esp DHT levels, do not get too high. Very high T or DHT levels can result in prostate issues. Here is a bit more on saliva testing. (Note that the 2nd link is a manufacturer who is pushing their own testosterone products).

    http://www.adrenalfatigue.org/saliva-testing-for-adrenal-hormones
    http://www.checkmytestosterone.com/saliva-hormone-test
     
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  3. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly G.O.A.T.

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    Caveat: If you decide to try a sublingual Pregnenlone product start off with a 10 mg product rather than a 25 mg or 50 mg product. Have your DHEAS (and testosterone) levels checked after 3-6 months to see if a higher supplement level is warranted. It is probably best to keep your levels below the normal levels for a 30 year old.
     
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  4. El Diablo

    El Diablo Hall of Fame

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    I think SA has an important point; that testosterone goes down with age probably is beneficial to longevity. A friend of mine went on androgel in his 50s after a divorce (yeeehahhhh!) and a few years later was diagnosed with metastatic prostate cancer. He now his lesions in bones and is expected not to live long. Androgens promote the growth and spread of prostate cancers, which ordinarily tend to spread or grow quite slowly in men over 50.
     
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  5. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    While it's true that taking PED's and testosterone is one of the best ways to improve performance in old farts like myself (I'm 63), I fear they will take away my TourdeFrance trophy if I get caught.
     
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  6. bad_call

    bad_call Legend

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    dang that sux...but after hearing the lengthy warning (TV commercial) not surprised.
     
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  7. r2473

    r2473 Legend

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    Could all you damn old people just start dying faster and stop taking all of the social security and medicare money?

    Your usefulness is at an end :)
     
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  8. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    THANK YOU VERY MUCH !
    I've always believed that, which is why I led the life I did.
    But as you get older, you start to think that SocialSecurity owes you something, so you gotta take it for a while.
     
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  9. bad_call

    bad_call Legend

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    drink beer - it does a body good and it's all natural. :)
     
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  10. Lil123

    Lil123 New User

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    A sad story to be sure and one that illustrates the importance of having the prostate checked (PSA and the old fashioned way) before undergoing T therapy. ..That said, the studies are pretty compelling: Where no prostate cancer exists before Testosterone replacement Therapy, there is no evidence that T therapy will cause prostate cancer. ..Allowing very low T levels to go untreated IS highly correlated with osteoporosis, cognitive functioning, depression, energy level (inc. one's inclination to exercise), etc..

    ..In my own case, I saw Univ. of Pennsylvania primary care physician, endocrinologist, and urologist And had a brain and testicle MRI before commencing with the Androgel. ..I definitely didn't enter into this lightly as those who would simply seek out some whacky anti-age doc. My goal isn't to persuade people to undergo T supplementation, but rather to encourage those with similar symptoms to discuss Low T with their docs.
     
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  11. slowfox

    slowfox Professional

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    This is totally gonna sound like trolling, but nevertheless... I read somewhere that watching porn increases a man's testosterone levels. I have no empirical evidence myself, so for the sake of science I will watch some "videos" before my next match and then see how I do on the courts. :)
     
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  12. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

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    Unless your hips are growing wide and you've started growing teats, no need to get your testo checked. :D j/k

    ^ Acco to a poster here (a month or so back), watching pron will increase testo, being with children and animals will decrease it.
     
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  13. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    I think you can easily gauge fall in testesterone levels by observing if there is significant shrinkage of your tennis balls.
     
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  14. WildVolley

    WildVolley Legend

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    Anabolic steroids are definitely good for putting on muscles and reducing recovery time from exercises. It is also possible that some anabolic steroids are safer than testosterone, or at least have fewer side-effects.
     
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  15. Lil123

    Lil123 New User

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    I think this claim merits some scrutiny. Testosterone replacement therapy has been in use for 60 years. And remember, the goal of legitimate TRT is to return a persons t-level to the normal range (300 -1080 ng/dl), it is not to raise the levels beyond this range for the purposes of improving athletic performance. Clinical trials have validated the safety and efficacy of supplemental testosterone. I don't believe the same can be said of ANY anabolic steroid.
     
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  16. WildVolley

    WildVolley Legend

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    No doubt that testosterone has had better clinical trials, but this has primarily been for political reasons. Anabolic steroids have been demonized because of the athletic advantage they confer, not health effects.

    Many anabolic steroids have been designed to avoid the negative effects of Test. It would be good to study whether or not this was successful.
     
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  17. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly G.O.A.T.

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    ^ Just to be clear... Pregnenolone and DHEA are steroid hormones and do not fall under the classification of anabolic-androgen steroids (AAS), better known as anabolic steroids.

    While it is not really known if using supplements to increase Preg, DHEA and Testostorone to 25-30 yo levels is wise, allowing testosterone (and possibly other hormones) to drop to very low levels does not seems wise either.

    As the OP has pointed out, low T levels are associated with dementia, osteoporosis, depression, fatigue and other maladies. This is something that my father is dealing with right now. Once of his doctors decided to inhibit his T levels in order to keep his PSA levels in check. In the past year, it has become apparent that the cure/treatment is worse than the (prostate) problem. He is now showing very significant signs of dementia, clouded cognition, osteo, depression, and severe fatigue.

    Perhaps it would be better to allow higher T levels but inhibit the conversion of T to DHT. Some possible ways to inhibit DHT is saw palmetto, Brazil nuts (selenium), and lycopene (cooked tomatoes, ketchup, etc). May also be helpful: nettle root, beta sitosterol, pumpkin seed and minoxidil or finasteride.
    .
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2012
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  18. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly G.O.A.T.

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    I had previously indicated that quercetin might possibly reduce DHT levels. It is often co-adminstered with finasteride. While many sources indicate that quercetin reduces or limits DHT production, there is at least one study that indicates that it actually causes an increase in DHT levels. Not certain what to make of this. Has anyone looked into this apparent contradiction?

    Zinc gluconate and other zinc compounds appear to play a part in DHT production and prostate health. Zinc supposedly can raise testosterone levels but limit its conversion to DHT. However, it is possible that very high levels of zinc may actually increase the risk of prostate cancer. It is difficult to say what the optimum level of zinc intake should be in light of this. Here are a couple of sources that discuss the role of zinc and zinc compounds with regards to DHT production/inhibition and prostate health. I will leave it to you to seek out more scholarly sources if you are so inclined.

    http://www.livestrong.com/article/304010-prostate-gland-health-zinc
    http://www.hairlossbuddy.com/22/zinc-and-healthy-hair
     
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  19. r2473

    r2473 Legend

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    #19
  20. bad_call

    bad_call Legend

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    a few studies on warding off dementia...

    http://theintelhub.com/2011/08/20/marijuana-may-ward-off-dementia-cannabinoids-protect-brain-from-aging-processes-say-german-researchers/
     
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  21. ollinger

    ollinger Legend

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    ^^ the link cites an animal study that has no bearing on humans. Study about three years ago in Archives of General Psychiatry showed daily marijuana use to SHRINK the hippocampus (vital to memory) by about 16%. Other human data are equally discouraging concerning the effects of marijuana on memory, though one recent study suggests some possible benefit in PTSD symptoms.
     
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  22. bad_call

    bad_call Legend

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    #22
  23. r2473

    r2473 Legend

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    Marijuana gets the "Taco Bell / IHOP stamp of approval"
     
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  24. Lil123

    Lil123 New User

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    though amusing, it seems this thread has jumped the tracks a bit.

    ..Just to remind: I'm not advocating that anyone pursue testosterone replacement therapy until the need for such has been carefully ascertained by a doctor. And while there are risks associated w/ TRT, there is also clear evidence that allowing subnormal T levels to persist carries risk as well.
     
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  25. r2473

    r2473 Legend

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    #25
  26. GuyClinch

    GuyClinch Hall of Fame

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    No doubt low T therapy can help you on the court. But its a bit like breast implants. So many women get implants because they have small breasts. But are they really 'small' in the first place.. :p

    I'd also agree with the idea that low doses of steroids could have superior results because they don't have the androgenic side effects and you get the anabolic results.

    The downside its probably tough to get a doctor to put you on a anabolic regimen - and its expensive. Whereas low T can probably get covered by insurance.
     
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  27. ollinger

    ollinger Legend

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    bad call
    Bad call! Your link contains NO STUDY whatsoever, and there is zero data in any reputable source suggesting marijuana to be beneficial in Alzheimer's. Teenagers fare even worse. Study published two months ago in Proceedings of the National Academy of Science showed that teens using marijuana regularly showed a 5 percent decline in IQ in early adulthood.
     
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  28. Lil123

    Lil123 New User

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    #28
  29. FastFreddy

    FastFreddy Semi-Pro

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    Igf-1, Hgh, Test, Gummy Bear Implants

    Increase your t-levels to the legal 4-1 ratio and get your gf gummy bear breast implants 300cc-400cc and get ready to have lots more fun on and off the court. Check this out, no womder Ray Lewis ripped off his tricep. I doubt u could do it without peds lol.

    Latest PED Gives Sports Deer-In-Headlights


    Deer antlers? Yes, deer antlers.

    They harvest the so-called velvet antler (a soft coating that covers deer antlers) in New Zealand, freeze-dry it and then grind it into a powder. It then gets shipped to the United States, where it gets put into either capsules or liquid extracts that can become a simple mouth spray. You can buy it for $68 a bottle.

    For the elite athlete, experts say it’s essentially a human growth hormone, one of the substances organized sports is trying to keep out. The difference here is deer antlers are natural, not synthetic, and properly discovering it in a test falls somewhere between extremely challenging to virtually impossible.

    Best anyone can figure, first you need to run a blood test (which leagues such as the NFL or Major League Baseball don’t do). Then you need to run a blood test at the exact proper time. Otherwise, nothing comes up.

    “You can find it,” Jonathan Danaceau, a director at a World Doping Agency approved lab, told ThePostGame in its report about new Raiders coach Hue Jackson’s connection with a supplement company that produces the spray.. “But saying whether this is synthetic or natural is hard to determine. It’s only detectable in blood, and most anti-doping tests are done in urine.”

    It’s a loophole for the athlete – turning drug tests into intelligence tests. You have to be stupid to fail one. The benefits of deer antler – or more specifically the substance IGF-1 that comes from it – are clear. IGF-1 is banned by everyone.

    “It’s one of the proteins that is increased in human growth hormone … it’s considered performance-enhancing,” Danaceau said.

    “It’s similar to HGH in that it aids in recovery. It helps build tissue, and strengthen tissue – more than you can ever do by training alone. Any preparation that is not naturally occurring is banned. Taking IGF-1 through deer antler is banned as well.”

    So it’s banned, but difficult to detect, which leaves sports leagues in a quandary.

    How the heck do you stop this?

    “I use the spray all the time,” Bengals safety Roy Williams said. “Two to three times a day. My body felt good after using it. I did feel a difference.”

    Williams never tested positive for anything. Considering various NFL assistant coaches, including new Oakland Raiders head coach Hue Jackson (pictured below) have been associated with a company that admits shipping it to NFL players, it stands to reason the stuff is all over the league.
     
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  30. GuyClinch

    GuyClinch Hall of Fame

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    Interesting. I looked into this after your post. It doesn't seem to work - the guy in baseball who got busted had his laced with testosterone - so that gave him a nice boost. But the stuff doesn't seem to do much otherwise..

    Unless you got a Doc on payroll - its pretty much fish oil for us regular folks..
     
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  31. 3fees

    3fees Hall of Fame

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    No,,drink more electrolytes or take geritol to put the kick in your step,,
     
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