Pacific Classic 1.25 x MSV Co-Focus 1.18

Discussion in 'Strings' started by Smasher08, Aug 29, 2011.

  1. The Big Kahuna

    The Big Kahuna Semi-Pro

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    Been there, done that. For the difference in price between a top-rated multi and Pacific Classic Gut, it is definitely worth the extra $5. per set to go with the gut. More feel, better string tension, more playable, more power, and longer life. It's like driving a Miata versus and Porsche. The spin is amazing!
     
  2. The Big Kahuna

    The Big Kahuna Semi-Pro

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    What racquet are you using?

    What is your tension? What is your CROSS string?

    If you are using a textured cross string and/or string the poly above 48 lbs, that is likely your problem.
     
  3. The Big Kahuna

    The Big Kahuna Semi-Pro

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    You playing on damp courts or in a damp atmosphere?

    Gut does not react well to water or moisture.
     
  4. tennisnut09

    tennisnut09 Rookie

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    This is odd. Mine is 32 hours and it is still going.
     
  5. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    Yeah and it doesn't matter how well coated it is, water is like kryptonite for gut.

    6 hours is ridiculous. I'm getting close to 20hours and then some in my Mamba gut in my 16x19, with string savers of course.
     
  6. lcalamar

    lcalamar Rookie

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    Couple things I'm trying to see if it helps.

    - Tough Gut - was much easier to string - I'll have to see how it plays
    - My clamps may have been too tight on the Nat. Gut, I can see where that may have caused issues if I crushed it.

    I'm going with one racket with the tough gut and one nat gut - same tension - and I'm being extra careful with the nat. gut and the clamp tension as well as working extra hard to avoid kinks.
     
  7. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    Good to hear -- I can't believe how quick you've been burning through your Pac Classic.

    If necessary go extra slow when weaving your crosses. Drakulie has a really good vid on youtube about how.he weaves crosses on budget gut that's perfectly applicable to all gut.
     
  8. flume

    flume New User

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    I tried this setup recently in my 6.1 95 at I think 56# mains, 52# crosses.
    After about 5 or 6 outings with this setup, I'm now down to reading 43# on raquettune (from 53#) and have found the stringbed has started to buzz as though something isn't right.
    Not sure if this is normal but it feels odd.
    Hitting with it sounds like an APD now.
    Should I cut out the crosses? Cut out the whole thing?
    Could it be a grommet? I can't see anything weird about them.
     
  9. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    For me, when gut starts to buzz, it usually snaps within ~4hours or less.

    Maybe it's the result of internal structures starting to give?
     
  10. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    Never had a tennis racket buzz on me, but I have had a buzzing squash racket caused by a broken grommet.

    Doubt it's in any way related to the tension loss.
     
  11. Ross K

    Ross K Legend

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    Very interesting.

    Q... What other polys out there apart from Outlast last the life of the gut mains - 15-30 hrs?
     
  12. DarkCloud

    DarkCloud New User

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    What would be the difference in using pacific tough gut instead of classic in this setup?
     
  13. JT_2eighty

    JT_2eighty Hall of Fame

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    Tough is bit stiffer which I have found it to have better control than Classic, with less power too. Classic probably has better feel and power, with Tough having a crisper, 'sharper' feel to it (maybe a touch less pocketing than Classic). I seem to have better durability with Tough as well, and like the way it pairs with a poly cross, to me it blends better with poly than Classic, as it also notches less quickly than Classic. For those who find the notching aids the spin (gut oils seeping out and all that), I haven't noticed much difference in spin between the two. But I hit a flatter ball. Spin for me (i.e. kick serving) comes easier when I drop to the 17 gauge from the 16L. And Tough 17 is the most durable 17g gut I've used.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2012
  14. lcalamar

    lcalamar Rookie

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    I'm just testing out Tough Gut instead of Classic Gut - due to durability issues with Classic Gut. I hit with the Tough Gut (52) and Co-Poly(49) today for the first time. I also had string savers in. The Tough Gut is a bit stiffer and there is not the pocketing and power you get with Classic. Some of this may also be due to the string savers. I didnt have a great day hitting so I'll reserve final judgement - but I'm going to restring my 2nd racket with the exact same configuration (52/49 and string savers) with the Classic Gut - and we'll see if my impressions hold up
     
  15. JT_2eighty

    JT_2eighty Hall of Fame

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    I'd say it sounds similar to my experience.

    The key with Tough Gut, to me, is to practice a few sessions with it to really get it to settle in. Where it lacks in power and pocketing, it gains in precision and longevity. Once you log a few hours on it, it will play great for many many hours after that. I can easily get 20, 30+ hours of match play on my ToughGut/poly setups. Tough ages like a fine wine, it just gets better and better the longer it stays in the racquet, the pocketing feel will improve as you use it.
     
  16. The Big Kahuna

    The Big Kahuna Semi-Pro

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    You might also try KLIP Legend Tour 17g.

    Highest grade natural gut with tremendous playability. Legend Tour offers 2 coatings providing a livelier feel with more durability. Very responsive string with the uniformly smooth feel of natural gut. 100% Australian. Comes in a non-traditional black color.

    It almost feels like gut coated with poly. Very durable. Very crisp feeling gut. Well priced at about $25.
     
  17. newyorkstadium

    newyorkstadium Semi-Pro

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    What about strings with lower string-to-string coefficients of friction? Low friction strings offer more spin.

    There are polys with much lower friction then co-focus. Also, some of them have better tension loss.

    Likewise there are natural gut strings with lower coefficients of friction then classic gut. These are:

    Pacific Prime
    Babolat VS Touch
    VS Natural Team Gut 17
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2012
  18. Boricua

    Boricua Hall of Fame

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    Will this Classic mains/ Cofocus crosses setup be ok in a 2013 Aeroprodrive? Not to powerful? What tension would I use? Im trying tcs and 4g but just curious
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2012
  19. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    Lol you can probably guess what I'm gonna say:

    Give it a shot, and string low.

    I'd suggest starting right around the bottom of the recommended tension range.
     
  20. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    Go for it.

    One day I'm going to try Wilson 17 mains. I'm sure they'll be fantastic.

    But at 50% more cost, I somehow doubt they'll play 50% better.
     
  21. newyorkstadium

    newyorkstadium Semi-Pro

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    What is the longest this setup has lasted?

    Did string savers alter the performance? How long do you think it would have lasted without the string savers?

    Cheers
     
  22. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    You'll find the answers to all those questions and more in the pages of this thread. :)
     
  23. newyorkstadium

    newyorkstadium Semi-Pro

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    Okay, I've found the answers. It lasts:
    17-22 without SS
    70 with SS

    Would you agree with this?
     
  24. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    I would agree that myself and others have gotten those results.

    Ultimately I would agree that your string longevity can depend on your racket weight, balance, string pattern, string gauge, stroke mechanics and playing style.

    And I'd definitely agree that the longevity of this setup is excellent.
     
  25. newyorkstadium

    newyorkstadium Semi-Pro

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    When trying different polys, should I use the TWU tension loss tool? If I use a poly that has less tension loss then co-focus , is this a good/bad thing? What if it had more tension loss?

    As far as I can tell, it is the gut breaking that forces a restring.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2013
  26. The Big Kahuna

    The Big Kahuna Semi-Pro

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    Generally, I would agree with that. The cross strings only account for about 15-20% of the overall stringbed performance and feel, IMO. In fact, sometimes the feel of a fairly dead poly (like the MSV I use) and a fraying gut string in the mains the last 10-15 hours can be pretty good. I usually restring after about 30-35 hours regardless - even if the gut has not broken.
     
  27. newyorkstadium

    newyorkstadium Semi-Pro

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    Bump, as only the latter part has really been answered
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2013
  28. newyorkstadium

    newyorkstadium Semi-Pro

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    bump......
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2013
  29. canny

    canny Rookie

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    Was gonna try this. But since Im ordering the new extreme from tennis warehouse I decided to get it strung 60 pounds klip 18g in the mains and 58 pounds of yonex poly spin in the crosses. Im pretty excited. In theory should produce a boat load of spin especially with the extreme. But I also know theoretically the durability should be terrible. But we'll see.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2012
  30. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    Wow, those tensions sound high! But give it a shot and see how it goes.

    In theory, the durability could be fairly short, but that would depend on a number of factors including your stroke mechanics. I also wonder how spinny the setup will be at that tension, but the thinner gauge may compensate somewhat, so who knows.

    I'm really interested in reading your review! Also, if you want to make it as spinny as possible, ask for the stringer to NOT prestretch it.
     
  31. canny

    canny Rookie

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    Well, I play with all my poly high anyways. MSV focus hex 17g I played around a 57 in a full bed. Full vs team I played at 58 and felt like I should go higher so I adjust my hybrids accordingly. But im excited and way ahead of you hahaha. But the string left over I'll probably string up myself at a different tension depending on how this playtest goes.
     
  32. The Big Kahuna

    The Big Kahuna Semi-Pro

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    Generally, I think the consensus would be not to string your poly crosses above 48 lbs. Over that number, the poly can become overstretched and actually lose control and spin. There are a number of articles on this and is supported by many in the string industry (G&G for one).

    Beyond this, this set-up sounds like murder on your arm.
     
  33. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    Lol as much as I hope we're wrong, I can't help but think this too.

    Canny, if you're willing to do an experiment, string up your next stringjob 10 lbs lower and compare. Otherwise you might have to put a lot of unnecessary effort into all your shots!
     
  34. canny

    canny Rookie

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    Nope... Don't have arm pain (play golf everyday and gym every other) and that's where I like my polys. There are plenty of high level and professional players who string polys in the 50's and soft Co-polys? 46 is completely unnecessary unless that is your preference. You have your gut at 50, some like the 60's Everyone has their preference. There's also plenty of science that says a stiffer string bed flattens the ball out more, imparting more spin and because there's more ball surface area on the string bed.

    But maybe I'll see. Like I said I prefer my polys high. I like muscling the ball into the court and taking a nice big cut. full beds of focus hex for me at 46 was god awful. 54 and normal tension drop is my limit. I have a full bed of lux adren at 56 and Feel like I could have went a tad tighter.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2012
  35. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    Um . . . that's not how spin is imparted. Spin is imparted by your mains deflecting upon impact, sliding along your crosses, and then snapping back. That snap back is vital, and gut mains are used because they're the most elastic material available. Accordingly, anything that reduces the friction between the mains and crosses -- such as thinner gauges or looser tensions -- ought to facilitate more spin.

    But give it a whirl and see how you feel.
     
  36. canny

    canny Rookie

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    I know its imparted that way therefore the more surface area on the balls that comes into contact with the mains the more that effect occurs. It's like pocketing. Yadda yadda I know that stringing poly high supposedly reduces its elasticity quicker but I string regurally and I have just a long stroke. poly at low tensions just feels uncontrollable to me. I have to shorten my swing to much and apply more topspin on the ball. I prefer to hit a heavy ball with mod spin. Then have access to that easy flat ball.
     
  37. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    Alright chief, I'm totally curious now. Can you post any video of your strokes??
     
  38. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    I'm reminded of this old post from 2009:


     
  39. canny

    canny Rookie

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    Hahaha. Sure ive been meaning to. Honeslty im not gonna lie I culd be use unnecessary force to get the ball in but I like it that way. :) anyways setup should arrive new years. So expect for some reviews next week. Has there been a break in period for the cofocus gut brids? If so how long?
     
  40. newyorkstadium

    newyorkstadium Semi-Pro

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    bump.................
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2013
  41. newyorkstadium

    newyorkstadium Semi-Pro

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    bump......
     
  42. canny

    canny Rookie

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    Hit with it ( klip 18g cut at 60 and Yonex poly tour spin at 58 ) for two hours yesterday. For this new racquet im going to have to drop my tension lower than im use too. But the first 2 hours were so so. I'll admit I strung it too high. It felt plush and fine still. But I think the poly was too tight. But after two hours of hitting and the string bed loosening up and settling in I got more ball pocketing it was very impressive. The amount of spin I was getting on my serves was very noticeable. Comparable or even better than a full bed of MSV hex. I'll hit with it again today and have a better judgement on its performance. Next set I'll string up 58/53 or so.
     
  43. canny

    canny Rookie

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    Hit a again today with temps that were about 12 degrees or so warmer bed felt alot nicer. I cant give an exact fair review on this setup because of the change in heavier racquet but my ground strokes are really iffy. Im hitting the ball long which im really not use too. But if I generate serious racquet head speed every shot I produce very heavy deep balls.

    Im gonna play around with some Lead and give this setup another test tomorrow. Should get a better feel for what tension I prefer.
     
  44. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    Try 55x50. Looser means more spin, and the trick with this setup is to find out what is too loose for you, rather than the other way around.

    If you find shots going long, be prepared to close your racket face more during your strokes to generate more spin.

    In the meantime, enjoy!
     
  45. canny

    canny Rookie

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    yea ill go 55/50. Thanks for the tip! Really hoping I can find a nice medium.
     
  46. The Big Kahuna

    The Big Kahuna Semi-Pro

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    Smasher, I am curious to know if you've tried any other mains in this hybrid other than Pacific Classic 1.25 it's that you really thought was comparable? As it is been raining a lot here and the gut is very sensitive to moisture I was tempted recently to try some multifilament see how they might perform in the place of Pacific

    I tried The top-rated multifilament string on stringform.com based on over 30 playtest by professionals and was very pleasantly surprised to find that it was very comparable in terms of performance. The string, Weiss CANNON 6 Star Supercharged 16 (1.30) Played very much like Pacific Classic in many ways with perhaps a 10% drop off in performance in the areas of spin, comfort, feel, and power. That said the price of the string is about $10 as opposed to Pacific Classic's $30.

    It also seems to hold its tension as well so far as good, although I would think that that would not be the case over time. Have you been tempted to switch to a high-performance multifilament as opposed to the natural gut for the cost savings versus performance obtained through the extra expense? Curious to know your thinking of late.
     
  47. The Big Kahuna

    The Big Kahuna Semi-Pro

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    I think Smasher would agree with these General String Facts:

    * Lower string tensions generate more power (providing string movement does not occur).
    * Higher string tensions generate more ball control (for experienced players).
    * A longer string (or string plane area) produces more power.
    * Decreased string density (fewer strings) generates more power.
    * Thinner string generates more power.*
    * More elastic strings generate more power. (Generally, what will produce more power will also absorb more shock load at impact.)
    * Softer strings, or strings with a softer coating, tend to vibrate less.
    * Thinner strings tend to produce more spin.
    * Decreased string density (fewer strings) generates more spin.
    * The more elastic the string, the more tension loss in the racquet after the string job.**

    The thicker the string the softer (16 gauge suggested).

    In general: Play with the thinnest string that you can which meets your criteria for durability. If you are not breaking 16, try 17, not breaking 17 try 18. If you find that your ball is landing short with the thinner gague string, first try to reclaim your depth by string tension before reverting back to your old thicker gague string.

    When looking for your tension, you are going after two things, and depending on how serious of a player you are, you are going to choose one over the other, to be your primary focus.

    Depth, yes, I know, broken record, dead horse. Depth, is key. You need to find a tension that allows you to take a nice smooth even swing at the ball, and have it land deep. String tighter to shorten up your ball, string looser to get it deeper.

    Feel, the second thing, some people like the way a firm stringbed feels, some people like the way a soft stringbed feels. Stiff stringbeds, tight stringing etc, are harder on people with arm injuries so that is a consideration, as well. Feel also has a lot to do with targeting, and accuracy, especially volleying. Most feel that stringing tighter helps with this, but I feel having something that you feel comfortable with will serve you better, and give you better accuracy and control than just randomly stringing tighter.
     
  48. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    Hey BK!

    I've been searching for a good backup for wet days. Still searching, but I found a few setups that were ok.

    Isospeed Energetic 17 played fantastic at first in a hybrid with CoF. But as it aged it rapidly lost spinniness. So I tried fullbed Energetic and found it didn't have the same liveliness it had at first in hybrid. It played somewhat like Rip Control -- three years go I would have loved it, but muted feeling stringbeds aren't my thing anymore. And curiously I found it played stiffer than when crossed with CoF. I'll probably give it a few more chances though.

    I also tried OGSM 17 with CoF crosss and hated it. Gamma syngut 17 full-bed was ok. Pro's Pro Kingut really disappointed me.

    I think if I wanted to save some coin, I'd try out some budget gut just because there's still no replicating gut's elasticity. But I saw 6 Star back in 2011 when I was trying out TurboTwist and was definitely intrigued. At $10 that's a pretty good price. Have you thought of posting a formal review??
     
  49. McLovin

    McLovin Hall of Fame

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    In case you care, I ordered a set of KLIP Legend Tour and KLIP Armour Pro (both 17g) last week. I plan on hitting w/ both and writing up a review, using Pacific Classic (my normal mains) as a baseline.

    Both KLIP strings are supposed to be coated and provide more durability.
     
  50. The Big Kahuna

    The Big Kahuna Semi-Pro

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    I would be very interested to see what your finding are.
     

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