Pacific Classic 1.25 x MSV Co-Focus 1.18

Discussion in 'Strings' started by Smasher08, Aug 29, 2011.

  1. Nojoke

    Nojoke Rookie

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    Have you kept the same cross the whole time? Do you find the thinner co-focus to hold tension/liveliness as well as the thicker gauge you used before?
     
    #51
  2. RyKnocks

    RyKnocks Semi-Pro

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    Can this type of combo be used until the gut breaks or will the poly die and have a negative impact on the performance after a while?
     
    #52
  3. jk175d

    jk175d Semi-Pro

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    the poly may or may not die before the gut breaks, I swap out the crosses at least once before the gut breaks. If you string yourself it's an easy way to get more for your $ on the gut mains.

    I think the lower the tension the less likely you will notice the crosses going dead. at higher tensions on the poly, say 52 and up, you *feel* a lot more of the poly and therefore when it goes dead you will feel its stiffness. At lower poly cross tensions you will feel the gut mains much more, so when the poly is done, you still don't feel it much. That's my experience anyway.
     
    #53
  4. The Big Kahuna

    The Big Kahuna Semi-Pro

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    This may have a lot to do with the differences in our durability. Moisture is kryptonite to gut and will definitely accelerate the wear on that string. I am in SoCal and that has not been a issue.

    In addition, I am using the KLIP Legend Tour that has a double (black) coating on it that seems to me to prolong the life of the string. You may want to try that next. It also looks bad-ass with the MSV Co-Focis 18 in the crosses. :)
     
    #54
  5. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    Interesting. I'm having the same setup I've just used put into my other MGPM, and have decided to give Pac classic 16L a try after that.

    Klip Legend sure does sound good from your reviews, and you're getting precisely the kind of durability I wanted from this. Perhaps in a few months I'll give it and Klip Armour Pro a test drive.

    By the way, is it possible to ask you for a pic of your setup??
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2011
    #55
  6. Nojoke

    Nojoke Rookie

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    I just put some armour pro 17 in my donnay plat 99 with black magic crosses. 52m x 48 crosses. I know our crosses are different, but I can chime in on the Armour Pro's durability.

    Joe
     
    #56
  7. a0f6459

    a0f6459 Rookie

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    Well, I finally got the strings delivered and strung them up last night.

    Pacific Classic 16L / CoFocus 1.18

    Strung at 56/52

    I went out and hit for about an hour and a half so I am still undecided on how I feel about this setup. Smasher, I know that you said it needs a few hours to break in to see the extra spin, however, I am wondering about the power level.

    I really feel that I need to swing out in order to get good depth. As you pointed out previously, if I don't forcefully put enough topspin while I am swinging out, the ball just launches.

    I was hoping this setup would allow me to hit a nice fluid stroke to get good depth, while helping me generate extra spin when called upon.

    Do you feel it is just a matter of letting the strings break in? Or maybe I should drop the tension even lower?

    I'll give it a few more sessions until I hit the 6 hour mark before I make any determination.

    smasher, what are your thoughts?
     
    #57
  8. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    Definitely give it more time -- like until the 8 hour mark. You'll find both more spin and a little more pop by then.

    The other thing that you'll come to realize is that the setup rewards swinging out, and once you get the hang of it, you'll start noticing that you're hitting more winners and unreturnables.

    Just remember that this is a new setup for you, and there'll be a adjustment period, so feel free to experiment a little.

    And as you point out, the other option is to go a few pounds lower in the future.
     
    #58
  9. jk175d

    jk175d Semi-Pro

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    for me I find this feels great right off the bat. It does settle in a little bit but I don't find it *needs* a break in period. Two differences for me though are VS 17g instead of Pacific and my tensions are 55/48.

    On a side note, the MSV Co-focus 1.18 definately cuts through the gut faster than the Silverstring 17g I have in another frame with the same setup.
     
    #59
  10. The Big Kahuna

    The Big Kahuna Semi-Pro

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    KLIP Legend Tour - Highest grade natural gut with tremendous playability. Legend Tour offers 2 coatings providing a livelier feel with more durability. Very responsive string with the uniformly smooth feel of natural gut. 100% Australian. Comes in a non-traditional black color.

    What is the easiest way to post a photo of my set-up? I am not totally up on this new fangled technology thingy. :)
     
    #60
  11. The Big Kahuna

    The Big Kahuna Semi-Pro

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    I will vouch for that. With my gut mains at 52# and the poly at 48# the set-up still is generating excellent power with great feel, comfort, and spin. Notching after over 35 hours - believe it or not - is minimal. It is likely the poly has gone dead a while ago, but I don't notice much (if anything) in terms of a drop-off in playability. Hit great with this set-up again yesterday.

    In many ways, I am getting a lot more out for this set-up than I did with Poly mains and Multi crosses - which had to be cut-out every 12-16 hours.
     
    #61
  12. jk175d

    jk175d Semi-Pro

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    What's your take on the differences between your Klip and VS? One thing I've noticed about the 1.18 co-focus cross is that it cuts through the VS mains a bit quickly. I've got about 15 hours of solid 4.5 hitting on this stringjob and a couple of spots look like they are almost cut all the way through, aside from just a couple of spots there is otherwise not much wear and no fraying. On the other frame where I have VS and Silverstring 17g crosses there is hardly any notching after a month.

    I really love the VS but don't think I want to spend $25 a week on strings. I've never used stringsavers before, is that what I should look into here?
     
    #62
  13. The Big Kahuna

    The Big Kahuna Semi-Pro

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    The double coating on the KLIP Legend Tour 17 seems to be working with the MSV C0-Focus 18 wonderfully. Very, veryy little fraying after 35 hours, so far. At $29. it is also a great value. You may want to give it a go.
     
    #63
  14. jk175d

    jk175d Semi-Pro

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    Do you notice a big difference in the feel/playability between that and VS? I just wonder how much a double coated gut still feels like gut.
     
    #64
  15. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    For mine, I created an account on photobucket. If you have an android-based or iphone you can download an app straight to your phone.

    Once they're uploaded, you copy and paste the info for a direct link into the pop-up box for images here.

    Feel free to PM me if you'd like more hands-on advice.
     
    #65
  16. The Big Kahuna

    The Big Kahuna Semi-Pro

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    Here you go (hopefully). Images of my KLIP Legend Tour 17g gut mains and my MSV C0-Focus 18g poly crosses after now 40+ hours of hitting. Note the black coating on the KLIP gut has worn around the sweet spot and there is slight fraying (and some slight notching, as well). Overall, however, the RA tension is still within 15% of my original measurement of 60 for the combined 52 # mains and 48 # crosses. The set-up is still playing well and shows no evidence of an impending break. Amazing!

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2011
    #66
  17. The Big Kahuna

    The Big Kahuna Semi-Pro

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    Thank you for the tip Ryknocks!
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2011
    #67
  18. RyKnocks

    RyKnocks Semi-Pro

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    The path to those images looks like its referencing from your desktop. You'll have to upload the images to a server or photo service (photo bucket, flickr, etc) and grab the url from there.
     
    #68
  19. RyKnocks

    RyKnocks Semi-Pro

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    Played with this setup tonight for the first time with the gut strung at 52lbs and co-focus strung at 48lbs on my new IG Instinct and having mixed feelings about it.

    Serves:
    Loved loved loved the pace and spin I got on my serves. My friends mentioned how how much kick and twist the balls were getting. 11/10 in my book.

    Everything Else:
    The setup seems a bit too powerful on my IG Instinct and I don't think it's suited for a tweener type racquet. I didn't have the control I was looking for. Swing too hard, the ball flys...swing softly, the ball goes into the net. I couldn't dial in that sweet spot where everything meshes.

    The setup was incredibly soft on my arm/shoulder though which was a big plus for me. I'm going to string the other half sets onto my LM Radical and see what kind of results I get on a more control oriented racquet. I'm afraid to string higher on my Instinct since people here have mentioned how stringing the poly into the 50's will mess with the feel that I'm supposed to get with this setup.

    Has anyone here strung the poly into the low 50's with any luck? I'd like to know because I think adding a few more pounds of tension to this setup would really help in my racquet.
     
    #69
  20. jk175d

    jk175d Semi-Pro

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    imo the poly at say 52 would produce more trampoline than the poly at 48. Lower tension on the poly produces better pocketing, more spin, and control. You might try leaving the poly where it is and go up a couple of lbs on the gut mains. I am in the habit of about 7lb differential. Last night I strung up one at 54/46. (EXO3 Tour 100 16x18).

    Are you more of a flat hitter or topspin? Fast swing?
     
    #70
  21. jk175d

    jk175d Semi-Pro

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    I'll answer my own question a bit here... I've been playing for about 9-10 days with Klip Legend 17 in the mains. It's not double coated like the black, but clearly it is coated differently than the VS. Whereas the co-focus 1.18 cut through the VS to the point of breakage for me after a week of solid hitting, the Klip has barely started to notch after about the same amount/type of play.

    So for me the Klip plays almost like the VS, a little firmer, *ever slightly* less spin. But I do have to say the intangible is it's not quite as much fun even if it performs almost the same. I think my plan will be to keep one frame with VS and the other with Klip.
     
    #71
  22. JT_2eighty

    JT_2eighty Hall of Fame

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    Yes. In my trying many types of gut, VS is amazing, no break in required, but you pay for this in durability. Guts from Pacific (from my experience) and Klip (from yours and others' experience above), are more durable than VS, but don't quite have that buttery smooth, super elastic, grab-the-ball-and-slingshot-it feel. Pacific Imperial was very close, but now their new spiral gut costs more than VS; although Prime is another option almost as sweet, my new personal favorite @ $36.

    In all cases I've found Pacific to be more durable than Babolat's, and it seems like the handful of you using Klip are finding great durability there as well.

    I'd be curious for someone to try this with Klip Uncoated and report back... :D
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2011
    #72
  23. RyKnocks

    RyKnocks Semi-Pro

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    I'm more of a topspin hitter. Do you think 55/50 or 57/50 would help to stiffen out the racquet a bit? Basically I love the spin I get from this racquet and setup, but I'd like to tame the power down a few notches. If I can't then I'll have to switch racquets yet again. :(
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2011
    #73
  24. levy1

    levy1 Hall of Fame

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    As a new stringer making every mistake possible I say HA!
     
    #74
  25. The Big Kahuna

    The Big Kahuna Semi-Pro

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    Honestly, only one way to find out. You have to spend the money and string it up and try it out. If my experience is any indicator, you will find it still plays great going up 2-3 lbs or down 2-3 lbs - it will just do somethings a little better and other things not quite as well as the other tension. In the end, you have to settle in at what tension does the most things well for you personally based on your needs and your style of play.

    I wish there was a shortcut, but there isn't. I spent $800. in string and stringing fees to settle on what I have now with the racquet I have now. Am I nuts or what?
     
    #75
  26. jk175d

    jk175d Semi-Pro

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    Confirmed: Nuts.

    So have you bought a stringer and started doing your own yet? Should've done that about $750 ago! :)
     
    #76
  27. jk175d

    jk175d Semi-Pro

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    Big Kahuna is right, you've got to experiment to find out for sure what fits you. But I still contend you will tame the power more with poly crosses down around 45-48 than you will at 50-52. So maybe try 55/48.
     
    #77
  28. The Big Kahuna

    The Big Kahuna Semi-Pro

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    Did you read the article by Joshua Speckman from TennisPlayer.net that explains the ideas behind both the set-up and the tensions?

    If not, there is a lot of the information you seek on the subject in the thread titled "VS Gut mains and poly crosses". You can find it at:

    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=360196&page=9

    I would start by reviewing that thread, as well.
     
    #78
  29. JT_2eighty

    JT_2eighty Hall of Fame

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    If your original at 52/48 is too powerful, string the gut Above 58. Honestly with poly crosses, and all the factors involved with shorter crosses, stiffer crosses, etc., I would try 59/51, or around that ballpark. I've strung poly crosses 10 lbs below the gut mains to no detriment of the frame.

    For instance, full job of any particular string, conventionally can be strung with crosses 3lbs below mains (i.e. 60/57). Now, with Poly, most recommend dropping that 10% (which gets you down to: 60/51.3).

    I'm currently using Pacific Tough 17 @ 60lbs / Polystar Energy 17 @ 53lbs, in the YTPP. Setup is amazing. jk175d's recommendation to have a 7-8lbs differential is wonderful & effective advice.
     
    #79
  30. JT_2eighty

    JT_2eighty Hall of Fame

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    The other benefit is that gut really plays great once you get above 55 lbs and into the 58-62lbs range. This is why I like a soft poly like PSE to compliment gut, it is softer than MSV so I can string it above 50 without it feeling like MSV does at those same tensions. PSE compliments gut like a charm.
     
    #80
  31. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    I would try 58/55 next and if that's too powerful, try the reverse hybrid with poly mains and gut crosses.

    Cofocus is also a pretty lively copoly. You could try a low power poly instead in your crosses. If your power isn't crazy high, you should be able to find a string setup that will work without having to get a different racquet. IMO the IG instinct isn't THAT powerful.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2011
    #81
  32. The Big Kahuna

    The Big Kahuna Semi-Pro

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    I like the performance of my set-up with my racquet for my game with the gut strung at 52# in the mains and the poly 10% lower at 48# - the sweet spot seems huge and I get great power, comfort, and control at the same time. The longer you hit with it the more pocketing you seem to get.

    That said, come next summer, I may go up a couple pounds to tone down the power a little and in the winter when it gets colder here in SoCal (and the balls feel heavier) I may even go down a couple pounds for a bit more pop.

    If you are like Federer, you string 5 racquets at different tensions and swap out as the match progresses depending on your opponent and the weather. BTW, here are what some of the pros string their Gut/Ply hybrids at for reference:

    Bob Bryan Prince EXO3 Rebel
    Prince Natural Gut/Luxilon Big Banger TiMo 56/52lbs (50-60lbs range)

    Mike Bryan Prince EXO3 Rebel
    Prince Natural Gut/Luxilon Big Banger TiMo 54/51lbs (50-60lbs range)

    Novak Djokovic Head YouTek IG Speed Pro 18×20
    Head Natural Gut/Luxilon Big Banger Alu Power Rough 55/52lbs (52-62lbs range)

    Roger Federer Wilson Six.One Tour BLX
    Wilson Natural Gut/Luxilon Big Banger Alu Power Rough 48.5/44lbs (50-60lbs range)

    The second set of numbers noted are what the racquet company recommends as a good range). You can see, they are all on the low side.
     
    #82
  33. Mig1NC

    Mig1NC Professional

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    That's quite a spread in tension between the crosses and mains.

    If you want to tame the power a bit, why don't you just normalize the spread a little bit? For example, instead of 55/50 or 57/50, why not 55/52 or 57/54?
     
    #83
  34. RyKnocks

    RyKnocks Semi-Pro

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    Because I've been advised to not go passed 50lbs on the poly cross and also, stringing poly into the 50's starts to do a toll on my shoulder so I'm trying to avoid that as well.

    I strung up the other half set on my LM Radical at 52/48 so I'll see how that plays out. Maybe my game isn't suited for a powerful racquet like the instinct.
     
    #84
  35. jk175d

    jk175d Semi-Pro

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    The reason I like the spread is a) you *feel* the gut much more, and b) the poly strings do their thing best at low tensions, but gut performs better at traditional tensions. I like to string up each string at optimal tension for that type of string, for me that means the gut in the mid 50s and poly in the mid 40s. I bring them back to the center only by a couple of lbs so as not to have a 10lb diference. But at a 6 or 7 lb difference you really get the benifit of both strings I've found.
     
    #85
  36. The Big Kahuna

    The Big Kahuna Semi-Pro

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    Poly manufacturers recommend that you drop the tension on their product by 10% over the normal tension strung with multis and gut. It is on most of the packaging.
     
    #86
  37. RyKnocks

    RyKnocks Semi-Pro

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    So I put the other set on my LM Radical at the same 52/48 tension and it played like a dream! The setup gave the Radical the spin and power that it normally lacks from other string setups, while maintaining the control that the Radical is so well known for.

    Now all I need to do is find a racquet that's less harsh on my arm than the LM Radical, but plays the same, and I'm all set!
     
    #87
  38. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    Update - Second Set - 6 hours

    With the first set at death's door due to notching, I thought I'd play it safe and put the same setup in my other MGPM. The first set is still alive and kicking, but since I have no idea when it'll give up the ghost I've started breaking this setup in.

    And before anyone asks, yes this stringjob is woven correctly ;)

    17g nat gut mains are, to me, just the best there is: even when fresh they still generate a decent amount of spin -- while feeling exquisite. Somewhat surprisingly, there isn't a big difference in spin between this and the Barry Bonds-style weave at the same time mark. But of course there's a noticeable difference in spin between the setup that's logged 20 hours and this one.

    No complaints whatsoever here -- and I'm saving my other stick for tricky opponents.

    String movement: none
    Power: excellent
    Spin potential: good
    Arm-friendliness: outstanding
    Feel: excellent
    Fraying: none
    Notching: none
    Durability: we'll see!
     
    #88
  39. TaihtDuhShaat

    TaihtDuhShaat Semi-Pro

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    Just strung my brothers blx 95 16x18 with pacific classic 1.30 mains and cofocus 1.18 crosses at 53/49. I'll update once he gets a few sessions on it.
     
    #89
  40. The Big Kahuna

    The Big Kahuna Semi-Pro

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    Try the Youtek Prestige Pro. Check the specs - very close to the Radical but more solid and dampened feel. Very solid and a bit more maneuverable as it is more head light. A classic all-court racquet.
     
    #90
  41. TaihtDuhShaat

    TaihtDuhShaat Semi-Pro

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    My brother has logged 14 hours on his BLX 95 16x18 with the classic 1.30/cofocus 1.18 at 52.5/49 lbs.

    His comments matched the OP. He said first 4-6 hours it played a bit weird, then after the poly loses tension, the bed gets spinnier and more bite.

    I'm very impressed with the durability given he was breaking the multi cross on poly main hybrids after 8 hours.

    He hasn't lost a match since switching to this setup. He has more power, less attackable 2nd serves, and better defense.

    I am definitely going to try this hybrid in my radical mp.

    Thing is, I like stiff beds, and have been using kevlar mains / poly crosses for a few months at 52.5/48.5.

    How does this tension sound for the gut hybrid: 59.5/55 or 57/55?
     
    #91
  42. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    Sounds a bit high to me TDS.

    I'd suggest tensioning the mains closer to the bottom end of your stick's tension range, if only because you seem to get both more power and more spin when you go low. If you're too worried about having more power than before and are determined to go tighter, I'd encourage you to go up no more than 5 lbs over your current setup (ideally much less or none at all) just because lower tensions will facilitate your mains moving at impact and snapping back.

    Also, if you like stiffer beds, try putting in a bunch of string savers: I find that it really brings out the poly part of the hybrid.

    Let us know how it goes -- and I'm really interested in hearing about how your brother's setup ages, particularly since the gauge difference between his mains and crosses is greater than most people tend to use.
     
    #92
  43. Posture Guy

    Posture Guy Professional

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    I've got a Volkl V1 Classic MP. Strung up Classic/Co-Focus (17g) at 60/56 and LOVE it.

    my favorite string setup to date. before that had Classic/B5E. Loved that before I tried this. This has better feel, more pop, more spin, and still has terrific control. I'm a huge fan.

    next up I'm going to try a full bed of Pacific Tough Gut, just to try it, but I really, really like this setup.
     
    #93
  44. TaihtDuhShaat

    TaihtDuhShaat Semi-Pro

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    Smasher - you were right on about the tensions. The lower tensions really let the strings slide within eachother. My brother's racquet had still great durability with the 16 gut/18 cofocus, but he's going up to 17 cofocus to try and get a little more control.
     
    #94
  45. The Big Kahuna

    The Big Kahuna Semi-Pro

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    This would be the Head Youtek Prestige Pro or Mid+.
     
    #95
  46. RyKnocks

    RyKnocks Semi-Pro

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    I actually ended up with the Youtek Radical MP after demoing both the Radical and the Prestige. They were honestly two of the best racquets I've played with and it could have gone great either way, but the Radical felt more solid in my hands and had a little more pop. I definitely wouldn't mind having a Prestige in my bag for times where I'm looking for a little more feel though.
     
    #96
  47. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    [​IMG]

    Updates - 29 hrs (set one) & 25 hrs (set two)

    Happy holidays everyone!

    Since we're having a green xmas here in T-dot, I've still been logging in some outdoor court time, albeit somewhat reduced due to the cold and wet weather.

    I'm not sure I should be describing these as "tests" anymore since they're clearly successful. Both sets are just a treat to play with. Interestingly, while I've had to put in about 25 extra string savers into the setup that was exposed to wet conditions back in September and started notching exponentially a couple of hours shortly thereafter, only one has gone into set two -- and until last week, they had virtually identically playtime logged on each.

    The fraying on set one is pretty interesting to behold, but thanks to the string savers, it'll cross the 30 hour mark which, all things considered, probably makes it an unqualified success. Without string savers, I reckon that it would have blown a tire well shy of the 20 hour mark

    As for set two, it'll hit the 30 hour mark with only one or possibly two additional string savers, meaning that it could very well log another 10-15 hours.

    As for their playing characteristics, there's nothing to add really: they keep getting spinnier as they age, and have great power, control, feel, touch, and arm-friendliness.

    All in all, I think they're great hybrids.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2011
    #97
  48. Maui19

    Maui19 Hall of Fame

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    Interesting thread--sorry I just noticed it.

    I have been playing Pacific Classic Gut mains (16) and MSV Hepta Twist. I started this hybrid at 57/54 and finally settled on 50/47. It gives me a great combination of control, pace and spin. Each string job has been lasting about 3 weeks (12-16 hrs) before the gut breaks. After it breaks, I find that the poly has gotten extremely thin in the center--obviously it was completely dead. I found that I was just playing the racquet too long, and that some bad hitting sessions I had turned around completely when I switched to a fresh setup.

    Today I tried a different poly--MSV Co-Focus 1.18. While this string is smooth, it wasn't nearly as slippery during stringing as the Hepta-Twist. I warmed up for about 10 minutes with this setup today, and it felt good, but I'm not sure it is as good as the Hepta-Twist. That Classic Gut/Hepta-Twist hybrid is just awesome for about the first 10 hours.
     
    #98
  49. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    Lol no doubt -- the edged and twisted form of heptatwist probably means there's less surface area coming into contact with your mains, and therefore less friction.

    With Co-Focus, I find it takes about 6-8 hours to develop a good amount of spinniness. (Personally, I wonder if using VS mains would eliminate a good chunk of this break in period.)

    I'd be very interested to hear a comparative analysis as your current hybrid ages. I think you'll find you get a lot more life out of it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2011
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  50. Maui19

    Maui19 Hall of Fame

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    Okay, the verdict is in: I'm going back to the Hepta-Twist. I hit with the Co-Focus until it broke (well the gut broke) after about an hour. Yikes! I think the gauge was too small. Then the strings in my other racquet went (the gut/Hepta-Twist hybrid). That racquet had about 12 hours on it.

    One thing to note is that I have started practicing with some pretty heavy hitters, which is putting a lot more wear on my strings. I think I may go to 16g in the Hepta-Twist. That Hepta-Twist hybrid is an awesome setup.

    So now I've got 2-1/2 packs of Co-Focus that will never get used. Oh well.
     

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