Pacific Classic 1.25 x MSV Co-Focus 1.18

Discussion in 'Strings' started by Smasher08, Aug 29, 2011.

  1. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    Perhaps you should give it a shot if only to see what difference they make. Worst case scenario, they'll give you an extra 20 hours on your stringjob. And if you don't like 'em, they're a cinch to take out.
     
  2. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    I'm of two minds about the impact SSes make. On the one hand, they prolong longevity, facilitate mains snapping back, and slightly increase the distance between mains and crosses at intersections which may increase string-to-ball friction.. But on the other hand, I'm not convinced they have a significant performance effect in any other way.

    I think they key factor in the performance of an aging stringbed is the mains. As they wear and notch, their natural oils will facilitate spin and playability. Presumably at some point they will lose virtually all their oils and thus effect will come to a halt, but I have yet to experience this and haven't read about anyone who has.

    So although you like to swap out your crosses, in theory their freshness or deadness shouldn't be a factor in the spinniness of your stringjob since that should predominantly be a function of the aging of your mains.

    At the same time I sometimes wonder if my putting SSes in has had the added benefit of helping make the feel of my dead poly crosses more bearable.

    I wonder how this can be further put to the test.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2012
  3. jk175d

    jk175d Semi-Pro

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    the thing about swapping out the crosses is that the dull feeling of dead poly is replaced by the crisp feeling of fresh poly. That's the aspect that has the biggest impact for me.

    I genereally only put SSers in one at a time when I see signs of possible trouble brewing at one of the intersections. But as I said, this last time after changing the crosses the bed still felt too springy so I just put in about 6 or 8 savers and it really helped firm it up.

    What's your technique for taking them out? I haven't found it easy at all!
     
  4. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    Applicator + tweezers . . . or anything that'll let you push them back into the applicator once the string junction is elevated.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2012
  5. GlenK

    GlenK Professional

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    Co-focus has now become my standard cross and I love it.
    I have only played with the aqua color and just received dark blue.
    Has anyone noticed any differences in the colors from a playability standpoint? I've seen it stated on some strings that various colors play a bit differently. I've never really played colored strings and have no clue!!!
     
  6. jk175d

    jk175d Semi-Pro

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    I've heard that to be the case with some syn-gut strings as the color reflects a slightly different coating or composition. But with polys I don't think it changes anything. I've played with about 4 or 5 colors of Co-Focus and didn't notice any difference in how they played or strung up.
     
  7. GlenK

    GlenK Professional

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    ^^That's great!!! Thanks!!
     
  8. jk175d

    jk175d Semi-Pro

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    strung up a fresh Pacific 17g/Co-Focus 1.18 today at 55/47. That's up 2lbs from what I've been doing, but I've been stringing up my Klip/Revolution frame at that tension and loving it. I've come to two conclusions. 1) I just love fresh stringjobs and there's just no way to still have that feeling 15-20 hours in. 2) the higher tension is better for the warmer weather. I was loving 53/45 all through the winter but it felt a little springy last few times out in warm weather.

    As for the Pacific/Co-Focus. When fresh it is still as good as any gut/poly I've played. I'll have to see how long I get out of it this time.
     
  9. polytheist

    polytheist Rookie

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    I think when people are trying to hypermile their cofocus, it's really just them being cheap and channeling their inner George Constanza.
     
  10. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    [​IMG]

    "Jerry, I've said it once, I've said it a THOUSAND TIMES . . . cutting out strings that are still perfectly usable is MENTAL!"

    ;)
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2012
  11. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    Oh -- and in other news, I'm now at the 42 hour mark with Setup 2, and have only had to add a couple of SSers. The longevity from this set looks to be unbelieveable.
     
  12. Racer41c

    Racer41c Semi-Pro

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    I second (or is it third or forth?) the idea that string savers help with tension loss. Seems like I add them at the rate the gut frays and the string bed stays fairly consistent.
     
  13. Racer41c

    Racer41c Semi-Pro

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    So Smasher is it safe to say that you just play the string job until it snaps? and your getting 50+ hours per?
     
  14. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    Yep to both.

    Just remember that I pop in string savers whenever required, otherwise the longevity would be about half as long.

    EDIT: the other thing to bear in mind is that my stick is 89 sq" with an 18x20 string pattern, which could very well be helping to prolong the strings more than a 95 sq" open patterned racket would. But in open patterned rackets with larger heads you could probably just use 16L mains and get the same performance and results.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2012
  15. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    Update - 54.25 hours (Set 2)

    If anyone thought the longevity of the first set was pretty good, fasten your seatbelt.

    What's incredible to me is that there's only 2 additional SSers in so far, mild to moderate notching in a few places, and a very small amount of fraying.

    The feel and arm friendliness are still good -- much better than the first set which by this point had dozens and dozens of SSers in. The spin is great, the power is good, everything is just really nice and solid.

    Great setup, dead poly and all.

    EDIT: about 8 hours after writing this, I went over the strings really closely and ended up putting in 6 SSers, all on two of the outermost mains in the lower part of the hoop. The intersections in and around the sweet spot look ok.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2012
  16. jk175d

    jk175d Semi-Pro

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    well smasher, I may be now understanding how you've said you don't like "dying" poly but "dead" poly is ok. I've been loving this set-up at the start but once the poly starts going dead I struggle with it. Starts to feel loose and spongey. But I perservered with this last stringjob through some of the struggles just because I didn't want to cut it out after just a week and a half. Suddenly tonight it seemed to cross into stable territory again and I was really liking the feel and trusting the control to swing out. It feels like the poly has settled into "dead" so it is very predictable and the gut mains keep the bed feeling soft and lively. I still prefer the crispness and overall playability of fresh strings but maybe I'll be able to get more life out of these than I first thought.

    Only thing though is the mains are getting notched and frayed pretty good now so it may not be long before they break. Not sure exactly but probably around 25-30 hrs.
     
  17. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    That's pretty much how I experience it too. For me there seems to be a 4-6 hour window starting around the 22 hour mark where the strings seem half alive half dead, and it's annoying and weird and inconsistent feeling and my shots can get erratic. But then once the crosses are dead, all of a sudden it's fine again.

    Like a weird rite of passage.
     
  18. Posture Guy

    Posture Guy Professional

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    And no arm issues once it goes dead, huh?

    Around 20-30 hours for me, I get what you're talking about, but if I keep playing with it, my arm starts to get sore.
     
  19. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    No arm issues at all for me -- and I'm a guy who blew out his shoulder using poly mains.
     
  20. jk175d

    jk175d Semi-Pro

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    not for me but I'm playing EXO3 Tour which is extremely soft. And my poly crosses are down at 45-47lbs
     
  21. jk175d

    jk175d Semi-Pro

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    the tricky thing is to muddle through that unpleasant window.
     
  22. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    Update - Set 3 - 0.5 hours

    Just an fyi, I strung up a new set last night at 49 x 45 lbs and holy moley I like it. Sure seems like there's more power, more spin, and more touch right off the bat.

    Keep in mind that I lead my sticks up to 362g, but my initial impression is that I definitely see the benefit of stringing a few pounds below your minimum recommended tension.

    It's the first set of gut I've strung myself since I got my X-6, and it was definitely a learning experience. I definitely have a new appreciation for how delicate gut is -- while I did take my time and go extra slow, on two occasions I think I mildly kinked it. A small section (5mm or so) went white in each place, and I was concerned that it would pop on my strnger, but one of the places was on an outermost main and the other ended up being between cross junctions near the middle mains but well below the sweet spot. This morning both white spots have lost a good deal of their whiteness and are hardly noticeable. I'll definitely be keeping my eye on them, but hopefully I've dodged a bullet since they made it through the night and made it through half an hour of hitting.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2012
  23. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    I wonder if what he's experiencing is tension related -- afterall I doubt my MGPMs are soft. It's certainly possible that dropping his tension could help.
     
  24. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    What's the recommended tension range for your racket? Offhand your tensions sound pretty high, and poly in the 40s is a very different beast than poly in the 50s.
     
  25. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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  26. GlenK

    GlenK Professional

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    My initial test racquet with Wilson Nat Gut/CoFocus 1.18 is still going strong @ 20 hours. I have two more racquets with the same set up and did the last two at the same time.
    They each have about 9-10 hours.

    Playability has remained very good and tension maintenance is excellent. It seems to drop approx 10% in the first 10 hours then sits there for a while.
     
  27. Posture Guy

    Posture Guy Professional

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    Smasher....thanks, looking forward to reading that thread. I've asked myself the same question.

    GlenK....how would you compare the playability of Wilson Nat Gut in this hybrid setup versus Pacific Classic?

    I've got some Wilson Nat Gut and Prince Gut to try in comparison, just haven't got to stringing them up yet.
     
  28. GlenK

    GlenK Professional

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    I have not tried Pacific Classic with CoFocus. I tried Classic with Lux Supersense and the Classic (as compared to the WNG) was a bit stiffer.
     
  29. polytheist

    polytheist Rookie

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    Just went back to Klip Legend Tour / Cofocus 1.18. Ah...so lightly crispy and plenty of power and spin. It's like reuniting with an old friend. Instant +0.25 NTRP. The only challenge is remastering the drop shot, this stuff needs a seriously light touch to nail those droppers.
     
  30. finalfantasy7

    finalfantasy7 Semi-Pro

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    ive been after msv cofocus for along time, carnt find it anywhere in UK/europe - only the hex, hepta twist which i dont want.

    still carnt believe tenniswarehouse europe doesnt sell alot of strings :confused:
    dont want to buy it in america due to i get hit by import tax - delivery too expensive.

    anyone know of a site which seels it in UK/europe email me pleasee
     
  31. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    Update - 64.5 hours (set 2)

    It still keeps going. Notching started to become much more pronounced and accelerated as it got closer to 60 hours, so there are now 16 additional SSers in. They've really stiffened up the stringbed and although it's getting a little better, it's still a bit on the too stiff side for me. When this stringjob was strung up, the guy who did it put the mains in at 1 lb over the tension I wanted, which may explain (at least in part) why I didn't mind all the SSers in my last stringjob.

    I've found the stiffness has made it a little less spinny, so I'm hoping that'll change soon. Otherwise I'll probably just cut it out after it hits 70 hours. As for fraying, as you can see from the photo, there's a little. It's most pronounced on the three outer mains to your right, the ones that have 3-4 SSers in.

    Still . . . 70 hours out of a stringjob? I'm shaking my head too, grinning like a kid.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2012
  32. tennisinoc

    tennisinoc Semi-Pro

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    Seriously?!!! 64.5 hours!!' Thats just rediculous durability.
    What is your play level, style, and grip/swing type?

    Have you tried other soft poly crosses and what were the durability times for those?

    Have you ever tried restringing you Poly crosses when they go dead?
     
  33. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

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    My setup starts to fray in my Pure Drive a lot faster..around the 8-10 hour mark. I do put in string savers and honestly would be quite happy to get 20 hours out of the setup.

    Im currently at hour 12.
     
  34. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    NTRP 5.0 aggressive all-courter with SW forehand grip and E 1HBH grip. I hit through my shots so I wouldn't say there's tons of topspin on them, but I do put lots of spin on my slices.

    Bear in mind that my stick is 89 sq" with an 18x20 string pattern leaded to 362g, a balance point of 32.4 cm and a SW of 352, and I pop in SSers whenever notching gets to be more than 1/3 of the string.

    Never tried another poly cross since I did a lot of research before trying CoF (1.23g before trying 1.18 ). And given the performance of this hybrid, I really don't think I'll need to. People who've tried Silverstring and Scorpion as well as CoF generally note that CoF is spinnier.

    Never tried restringing my crosss. There's a "dying" window somewhere between hours 22-28 where it feels bad, but after it's dead it's actually just fine.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2012
  35. finalfantasy7

    finalfantasy7 Semi-Pro

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    thanks smasher, got it from that link

    unbelieveable 64 hrs, going strong, going to try this setu up maybe next string job for me or maybe when this raining season over here in england
     
  36. Racer41c

    Racer41c Semi-Pro

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    I wish I could find a pair of shoes to last this long....:evil:
     
  37. finalfantasy7

    finalfantasy7 Semi-Pro

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    what other strings would you recommend using co focus with, co focus being either main, cross
     
  38. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    IsoSpeed Energetic 1.20 (main). Best inclement weather backup to gut-poly I've tried so far.

    I've also read a post from someone who used CoF as crosses in a 'brid with Focus Hex. The poster felt it gets more spin and longevity than full-bed Hex.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2012
  39. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    Deleted for quoting the wrong person. Sorry!
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2012
  40. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    Interesting combo, let us know how it performs.

    I've used 1.30 mains with 1.23 CoF crosses before, and I've always heard that the bigger the difference in gauge, the more the risk of notching. But I haven't ever read a post from someone who's actually tried it. It could very well turn out to be baseless.

    As for SSers, I'm usually a big proponent of them, but the last bunch I put in stiffened up my stringbed and took away too much of the feel. So I'll be cutting it out tonight or tomorrow. What's funny is that I had much more in my last 'brid and it felt fine and got better and better as it aged. Go figure.

    Enjoy your new 'brid and let us know how it goes!
     
  41. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    Nice to see you're using stringsavers.

    Can you comment on how the stringbed feels with and without? I'm contemplating on getting stringsavers for my gut/poly hybrid.

    I've never used stringsavers before so please excuse this dumb questions.
    1) Does it stiffen up the stringbed? Something tells me it does. :(
    2) Does it prevent the gut from sliding/snapping back across the polys?
    3) Are they all more or less the same? If not, which do you recommend and why?
    4) Are stringsavers reusable?
    5) Lastly, I HATE snapping gut pre-maturely off of a shank/mis-hit. Do you think stringsavers on the top edge of the frame will help prevent those? Or do you think there's simply too much force and there aren't enough strings to share it on the edges? This is certainly not a deal breaker, but if it does help shank snaps, that's gravy on top! I know, I should stop shanking balls, but sometimes I can't help it. :(

    Thanks!

    Also, I'll start experimenting with MSV CoFocus 1.18 next week, I am expecting great things from them. It'll be Mamba Premium Natural Gut 16g/MSV CoFocus 1.18 at 52/46lbs.
     
  42. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    I've edited my post since, with additional questions, sorry! And thanks.

    So it appears that they do stiffen up the string bed to some degree? Well that's no good.

    As for the Mamba Premium Natural Gut goes, I may not be a good reference because I only have Gaucho Classic/Spider Silk to compare to. I haven't used stuff from the big boys brands yet. One thing I will note is that:

    Mamba Premium Natural Gut is the most powerful string I have ever used.
     
  43. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    No worries. In short order:-

    1. Yes. I'd suggest using them sparingly until necessary.
    2. Not Babolat Elastocrosses, which I understand have teflon. Bab SSers will/should facilitate spin.
    3. No. Bab SSers due to teflon coating.
    4. Yes. I reuse mine as much as possible.
    5. No idea. I mis-hit my fair share of balls but have never had any snapping from it.
     
  44. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    If you'd like to put in a bunch off the bat, you can compensate by stringing 1-2 lbs looser. I'd suggest trying 1 lb for every 8 or so SSers.
     
  45. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    Please don't tell me the stringbed will feel like I've put a dampener on. I hate that boardy sensation feeling of a dampener.

    HA! My shanks are epic. More power to me! :twisted:
     
  46. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    I think it would depend a lot on how many you put in and where you placed them.
     
  47. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    I have a high sweetspot, so they'll be high on the stringbed.
     
  48. Fed Kennedy

    Fed Kennedy Hall of Fame

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    Here is my question...do people think ss increase bite/spin? I mean, if a textured string does, one would thing a bunch of square things in the middle of the bed would as well...it makes the bed a little bumpy...
     
  49. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    It does in two ways, I think.

    First, SSers that are teflon coated will facilitate mains deflection and snapping back.

    Second, the "bumpiness" of the stringbed -- caused by the SSer separating the main from the cross by an additional 0.5 mm or so from what it would ordinarily be -- will, provided SSers are used in non-adjacent mains, grab onto the ball more at contact, kind of like a sawtooth. So instead of texturing a string, they texture the stringbed.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2012
  50. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    It's tough to say. I'd suggest a little trial and error to see what works for you.
     

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