Pacific Classic 1.25 x MSV Co-Focus 1.18

Discussion in 'Strings' started by Smasher08, Aug 29, 2011.

  1. filphil

    filphil Rookie

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    I didn't pre-stretch the sppp bed. :(

    I probably won't be able to get that many hours out of this bed since I'll be playing mostly on clay until November so we'll see how it all goes.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2012
  2. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    You never know. I played a good 12-15 hours on clay over the summer and still got to 70 hours on my stringjob.
     
  3. tennisnut09

    tennisnut09 Rookie

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    Hi Smasher08,
    can you give me a suggestion on the tension for my set up. I have the pacific classic 16L and MSV co focus 1.23. I have a PDR 2012. My racket is extremly powerful. I want to do the right tension since the gut is very expensive.

    Thank you!
     
  4. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    Sure, I'll try to help.

    If you've read around this thread you'll know that I'm usually a big proponent of playing with loose strings near the bottom of your racket's recommended tension. The reason for this is related to two things: the fact that the poly crosses will stiffen up your stringbed, and the fact that looser tensions facilitate string deflection and snapback (therefore increasing spin and control).

    It would be helpful if you told me a little more about your playing style and what you're looking for from this hybrid combination.

    1) What's your NTRP? (this will give me a rough description of your technical fundamentals)

    2) What's your playing style? (e.g. aggressive baseliner, retriever, counterpuncher, serve and volleyer, etc)

    3) What kind of strings have you been using in the past few years, and at what tension(s)?

    4) What are you looking to get from this setup? (e.g. durability, increased spin, power, control, help with certain shots, etc)

    That's all I can think of for now!
     
  5. tennisnut09

    tennisnut09 Rookie

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    Hi
    I am a consistent 4.0
    counterpuncher
    play double more than single lately
    Looking for control, feel and durabiilty.
    Previously played with dunlop 300 tour MSV hex 1.18 56 lbs, youtek prestige mp NXT tour 56-58 lbs or tourbite 1.20 54 lbs (love NXT feel and control). Currently, PDR 2012 in the try out period. I like the B5E/TB 54/58 lbs feel but it is lack a bit of spin and power at time.

    Thank you!
     
  6. lcalamar

    lcalamar Rookie

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    I just played with my PacGut (56) mains and Co-Focus (52) Crosses last night.

    Initially struggled with power - and getting much top spin - seemed the balls were flying before I could get on top of them. I had to adjust my stroke a bit and it seemed things settled down.

    At the end of an hour I was getting quite comfortable and the power was there when needed. Great comfort - even though it still felt a little stiff.

    I'd be tempted to drop the gut down to 54 next time - maybe the poly to 51 and try that, though I'm still a little concerned about the lack of control. If I do well with 56/52 - then 54/51 would seem the next step.

    Great setup though - I'm comparing it to my standard setup of Co-Focus mains (52) and OGSM crosses (56). This setup is very nice - good control but I do feel it in my arm especially if I'm not consistently hitting the sweet spot. If I can learn to control the gut/poly setup - then it has some huge advantages over the poly/sgut. Also - I'm hopeful the gut/poly is more durable - to help pay for the gut!

    There were some balls I hit with the gut/poly setup that I was just able to crush - the pocketing was amazing!
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2012
  7. tennisnut09

    tennisnut09 Rookie

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    What is your racket lcalamar?
     
  8. jk175d

    jk175d Semi-Pro

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    I'm assuming you meant gut at 56 and poly at 52. My advice if you want more control is to stop the poly to 45-47 range. You can bring the gut down relative to that where you want it. Most people seem to go with a 3-8 lbs differential.

    Poly is at its most trampoliny in the 50-55 range. You will get more pocketing and spin when you drop it into the 40s. That translates into control.
     
  9. lcalamar

    lcalamar Rookie

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    Yes - meant to say gut at 56 poly at 52 (corrected)

    I should really try dropping that poly into the 40's - just seems counter to what I'd expect...

    I am playing with a Volkl Organix 8 300 - I've added weight to the head.
     
  10. tennisnut09

    tennisnut09 Rookie

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    bump up for Smasher08.
     
  11. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    Hi guys

    I'm going to respond to the both of you together because the same advice applies.

    Looser strings produce a spinnier stringbed. This is because spin is caused by your main strings deflecting (sliding along your cross strings) at impact with the ball and snapping back -- all within a few hundredths of a second. In this sense, mostly all the crosses do is hold the mains in place. And spinnier strings are predominantly those which allow the mains to deflect maximally, and snap back the most (i.e. return all the way back to their initial position).

    One of you is stringing poly at a relatively high tension, and then lamenting its apparent lack of spin. The reality is that the tension is far too high to permit a decent degree of deflection, even though it's somewhat trampoliney. Poly generally needs to be strung 5-10 lbs looser than a syngut or multi for this very reason. You'll also get the added benefit of more feel at looser tensions.

    (Your swing mechanics may contribute to the lack of spin as well, but we can't say either way since we can't see them here)

    Although it may be counter intuitive, stringing your strings looser will, up to a certain point, give you more spin which in turn will give you more control. (You may also need to silightly alter the angle of your racket face during impact to harness more spin, but more spin you will get.)

    Because poly crosses stiffen the stringbed, you shouldn't string gut-poly hybrids at the same tension as a syngut or multi -- just as you shouldn't string poly at those tensions either. (You can, but you won't be getting the full benefits of using them.).

    You should be stringing your gut mains somewhere between a poly tension and a multi/syngut tension. It should be at a tension that permits optimal deflection and snapback. And it should probably be at a tension that is closer to the poly end of that spectrum. This means it will be somewhere around the bottom of the recommended range for your racket, or even a little lower. And at the 3.5/4.0/4.5 level, it may also entail some tweaks to your technique to allow you to generate more spin on your strokes, but that will only help you become a better player and progress more.

    If you want my specific starting point for your mains tension I'd suggest right at the bottom of your racket's recommended tension range. If that completely freaks you out, then add two pounds. Crosses should be 3-5 lbs lower. Your mileage may vary, but I find I get good results from a four pound differential. And mains should *not* be prestretched at all -- prestretching seems to remove a substantial amount of spin from this kind of setup (note: poly should never be prestretched either).

    As for the other of you dropping your gut-poly tension 2 lbs, I'd recommend instead to drop it 3-4 lbs because you will gain more from this setup by having your strings as loose (and therefore as spinny) as you can manage. As a benefit, you'll be able to swing at 3/4 speed most of the time and almost effortlessly generate decent depth and pace, and then really cream the ball when you go full-throttle.

    Remember: looser strings equals considerably more spin AND more power.

    Good luck guys, let us know how it goes!
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2012
  12. tennisnut09

    tennisnut09 Rookie

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    Got it strung 58/54 on my PDR 2012. My racket range from 55-65. Hit some balls against the wall and it feels very nice. Will have some rally/game tomorrow.
     
  13. tennisnut09

    tennisnut09 Rookie

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    Just one word "Amazing". It plays better than any previous set up that I have ever played with. It feels like NXT tour with a bit more control and a lot more spin. My hitting partner noticed the ball came to him faster/heavier. At net, it is precise, enough punch, and the ball stays low. Awesome!! it is $20 per set, not too bad. I hope it will last 30 hours.
     
  14. lcalamar

    lcalamar Rookie

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    Smasher08 - thanks for the detailed reply - very helpful.

    I've been hitting with the PacGut/Co-Focus for about 5 hours now - and I like it more and more.

    I'm going to take the suggestion - and cut out my current Co-Focus/OGSM setup - and put in the PacGut/Co-Focus at 52/49 - to compare with my current PacGut/Co-Focus which is at 56/52.

    Will be fun to test out the difference.

    Feels like I'm getting to a definitive setup now - it would be tough to go back from the gut now...
     
  15. ramos77

    ramos77 Semi-Pro

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    have been using wilson NG and co-focus for 8 weeks now on PS90 blx

    great combo, up until the last time I played, it was way too powerful and boardy, great for the first serve, but uncontrollable for groundstrokes.

    Is this normal? and which other string would you suggest to maintain the tension better? co-focus lasts a long time with gut, there is barely any wear other than a few frayed strings, but I cannot control the ball anymore....
     
  16. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    Hi

    Unfortunately, using weeks as a measure of time is meaningless since you could be playing anywhere from 0-70 hours in any given week.

    A few questions then in order to help:

    1. How many hours do you think you've logged in?

    2. Is this your first stringjob with CoF

    3. What gauge and tensions are your mains and crosses?

    4. Did you string it yourself or was it it done by a stringer?

    5. Were the mains prestretched at all?

    6. What is your NTRP and playing style?

    7. What string(s) and tensions have you been using in the past couple of years, and how did they compare at a similar time mark?

    My apologies in advance if you've provided any of these before!!
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2012
  17. finalfantasy7

    finalfantasy7 Semi-Pro

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    still got mine it, beein using it for now around 36-40 hours, still feels good but i can feel the poly is dying really quickly - lost significant of pop on ball,
    funny enough the gut looks fresh, post a pic soon
     
  18. finalfantasy7

    finalfantasy7 Semi-Pro

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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    actually not fresh, bit of fraying especially where my dampner is, but at the top of 2nd pic thr aint that much fraying ??.

    still really enjoying hitting with this setup
     
  19. lcalamar

    lcalamar Rookie

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    I tried out the Pac Nat Gut/Co Focus at 52/49 and do like it better than 56/52.

    Funny thing is I actually seem to have more control and a little less power - which just makes no sense.

    I'll continue to test different tensions - but wow - I'm done with looking for hybrid combinations - not sure what I'd find that would perform better than this for me. I really notice it in my arm - especially if I'm hitting off center a bit - no issues.

    Thanks for all the help here - glad I found this thread!
     
  20. lcalamar

    lcalamar Rookie

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    Question - on my first racket strung at 56/52, I wonder if I nicked or bent or ??? the Gut - because after only about 6 hours hitting - one of the mains is ready to go... completely frayed.

    One of the benefits of this hybrid should be durability - but if I can expect only 6 hours or so... I can't afford this setup.

    My second racket - at 52/49 - has about 6 hours play - and looks like new still.

    This was the first time I'd strung Gut - and did find it a little challenging - the second time went much better.

    Also - I used 17 gauge - would I be better off switching to 16 gauge (1.30)? What difference would I find (my co-focus is 1.23)
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2012
  21. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    I'm pretty sure you've nicked/bent/kinked it one way or another. Natural is remarkably durable.

    The only times I've snapped gut under 10 hours is if:
    1) The gut had an imperfection right in my sweet spot.
    2) I nicked/bent/kinked/stripped it during stringing.
    3) Off-center hit and snapped it near the edges of the frame.
     
  22. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    The other thing to keep in mind is that the looser you string it the longer it lasts.

    But I agree with Say Chi Sin Lo, there was probaly a kink/nick/imperfection because 6 hours is the shortest I've ever heard to this stringjob lasting at any tension.
     
  23. McLovin

    McLovin Hall of Fame

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    That depends on a few things:
    • What is your string pattern?
    • Under what conditions do you normally play? (e.g., humid or arrid?)
    • What surface do you normally play on?
    • Are you a 'string breaker'?

    My preference has always been to go w/ the thinnest gauge that lasts 'longest'. I put 'longest' in quotes because if you are hybriding gut w/ poly, it makes no sense to use a gut that lasts forever if the poly is dead after 8-10 hours of play.

    So, I use 17g gut most of the time, unless I'm playing on clay, in which case I bump it up to 16L. My Co. Focus is also the 1.23mm. No specific reason for that, other than I was using SPPP 1.23 and wanted a direct comparison.
     
  24. ramos77

    ramos77 Semi-Pro

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    THanks!

    1. Around 20 hours
    2. Yes
    3. 16 gauge. 54/51 Wilson NG mains.
    4. Stringer
    5. Yes
    6. No idea, intermediate player, all court.
    7. Was using full bed of VS gut, have just tried hybrid to gain more control, spin and durability... I was breaking VS gut in 5 hours or so.

    Hope this helps, and thanks again!
     
  25. McLovin

    McLovin Hall of Fame

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    That's likely your issue. While others have gotten more out of their setups, I've noticed after 8-10 matches (12-15 hours) playability drops off. Comparably, this is better than the 6-8 matches I got out of SPPP or Topspin Concept Pure crosses. Plus, it's slightly cheaper...
     
  26. Dreamcastin

    Dreamcastin Rookie

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    thanks for the thread op, also thanks to pvaudio for your reviews getting me to try this.

    I normally play all natural gut vs or wilson.
    racquet is a pure storm ltd 2009
    vs team natural strung at 52lbs no prestrech
    1.23 blue co-focus strung at 48lbs no prestrech

    Impressions coming from full gut, more free power and more control when swinging out. Kinda muted feel as expected, but still good. flat shots and volleys were the main adjustment, although an easy one. volleys I would normally punch through I would just sit the racquet out in front and watch the ball explode. Slice was down right nasty which i didnt expect, touch shots were great, topspin amazing, directional control amazing, serves were effortless bombs. Made hitting topspin lobs easier. there are a few unique shot i still need to dial in(such as volley lobs) but i think im sold. im not a string breaker, but ill report back on how long it takes for the poly to go dead. ill be restringing the crosses until the gut breaks.

    Ill be stringing this up in my wilson blx pro staff 95 once the gut in it breaks and report back on that racquet also.
     
  27. lcalamar

    lcalamar Rookie

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    Follow up...

    Been playing with Pac Nat Gut - 52 and Co-Focus - 49 for about 12 hours now... Wow - I like this more and more.

    I even switched my wife to it - she made me promise to never switch her from IntelliString - because all my poly hybrids were too stiff for her.

    She loves this also!

    Nothing else worth trying anymore - this is it!

    Though - I may even go lower with tension. I was a skeptic on lowering tension - but the difference from 57/53 to 52/49 is very significant... much more comfort and most surprisingly - more control, more feel - more everything!

    Smasher08 - thank you very much for this recommendation - and convincing me to drop tension.

    No more string testing for me!
     
  28. tennisnut09

    tennisnut09 Rookie

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    Around 18 hours now (classic 16L X Co focus 1.23, 58/54), I notice that the power and the spin decrease. I think it is about 15-25% less than the 8-10 hours mark. The string bed still feels very soft. I actually like the power and the feel at this time better but I miss the spin. Does everyone have the same experience? Anyone does something to help keeping the spin longer? Please advise.

    Thanks!
     
  29. finalfantasy7

    finalfantasy7 Semi-Pro

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    ^Yeh around same time that happened to me, I'm at around 42+hrs now and it still plays nice, soft, comfort,control,power.

    Don't know how you increase the spin now.
    I'm still really liking mine, as I play flat&deep,..don't need spin
     
  30. lcalamar

    lcalamar Rookie

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    This is my gut after only 6 hours of play... Not sure what is going wrong here? It is 17 gauge Pac Classic Natural Gut.

    I'm pretty concerned about durability now as this is my second string job that has this kind of fraying after only 6-8 hours.


    [​IMG]
     
  31. filphil

    filphil Rookie

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    You're wearing at a good spot. You're probably just be hitting with a lot of top spin. Mine looked like that after 10 hours. I stopped keeping track since I've been so inconsistent with my play time because of the weather here in NJ.
     
  32. ramos77

    ramos77 Semi-Pro

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    Drop tension and perhaps use 16 guage?
     
  33. newyorkstadium

    newyorkstadium Semi-Pro

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    I am confused by the 20+ hr posts. I thought poly's go dead and lose all playability after 10 hours?
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2012
  34. tennisnut09

    tennisnut09 Rookie

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    This is my first time using this set up. I only notice that the power and spin are decreasing at 18 hrs mark. The string bed still feel soft. I actually like the control, feel, and power around this time but I miss the spin. You may want to ask smasher08 for more info. He is the master of this set up. I am enjoying this set up every minute of it. I do not have anymore soreness after 2-3 hours of play. I use the 2012 PDR.
     
  35. jk175d

    jk175d Semi-Pro

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    most people seem to observe that this setup gets spinnier and spinnier the long it plays. That's been my experience too. I think as the tension drops there's even more pocketing thus more spin.
     
  36. jk175d

    jk175d Semi-Pro

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    I wonder if the gut was dried out a bit? Was this a freshly open pack when you strung it up? I notice sometimes the 2nd half of a set doesn't seem to last as long as the first half did. I seal up the string package with tape but still I think it dries out a little if I leave an opened package around for a couple of weeks before using the 2nd half. Dryer gut definately seems to fray quicker.
     
  37. newyorkstadium

    newyorkstadium Semi-Pro

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    I am confused by the 20+ hr posts. I thought poly's go dead and lose all playability after 10 hours? I know that a gut/poly setup increases lifespan.

    Smasher08, are the two strings used especially durable?
     
  38. mrtrinh

    mrtrinh Professional

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    Can anyone compare co focus to signum Hyperion or tornado? I've been using Hyperion due to their longer playability compared to other co ploys. Does co focus have similar power and playability as Hyperion?
     
  39. jk175d

    jk175d Semi-Pro

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    co-focus is pretty long lasting for a poly. And the thing is, the gut in the mains mitigates the dead feel of the poly to some degree. Remember, most of the feel of the stringbed comes from the mains, the crosses are more of the stabilizer in a hybrid.

    That said, I found with the gut/co-focus set up that the cofocus would go through a "dying" stage around 8-12 hrs where I didn't like it so much, seemed to lose the control and feel, but once it got past that to the "dead" stage it would feel great again until the mains broke.

    BUT... I've also moved on to a different poly cross, Solinco Outlast, which I feel always lasts the life of the gut mains, which for me is anywhere from 15-30 hrs. And the thing about Outlast, is it doesn't evelove through the different stages. It feels almost exactly the same from day one until the gut mains break. It's also a little crisper than co-focus which can be a little mushy on a flexy frame like the Tour 100.
     
  40. lawrencejin

    lawrencejin Rookie

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    I'm also interested in Hyperion and Tornado as a cross of natural gut. Both poly's are well-rounded in every category without being dominant in any, which I like a lot. My only concern would be their power, which is on the high side -- I can foresee them being unable to tame natural gut's exceptional power.

    I see from your signature that you're using Hyperion as a cross of natural gut. Can you tell us how your set-up plays?
     
  41. tennisnut09

    tennisnut09 Rookie

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    WOW, nice explanation.
     
  42. Hotrocks

    Hotrocks Rookie

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    I have tried Co-Focus with Pacific Mains, did not like the feel compared to Hyperion or Tornado. Co-Focus seemed to have a plastic feel to it, not sure I described it right, but prefer the feel of Signum Pro. To me Signum Pro felt softer and did everything well. I use the IG Prestige Pro and string Pacific Classic(52) and Signum Pro(48). Thunderstorm is also a great poly. Scorpion plays well also....just trying to pick the winner!
     
  43. lcalamar

    lcalamar Rookie

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    Any thoughts on going with the Pacific Tough Gut to help with durability?
     
  44. The Big Kahuna

    The Big Kahuna Semi-Pro

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    SMASHER, have you tried the new Yonex Poly Tour Pro 125 in your crosses yet? It is #1 on Sringforum based on play tests for Price to Performance Ratio (PPR) and the #1 ranked Co-Poly string OVERALL based on 31 reviews.

    The string just has a comfort and control that I do not find in very many poly strings. There is a structure to the string that seems to give it a unique and more controlled feel. The string produces good spin and the feel is just even. The power is close to MSV but the Poly Tour Pro just has a great overall stat set. I am impressed.

    It is also $8.00 a set!
     
  45. The Big Kahuna

    The Big Kahuna Semi-Pro

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    I advise against the Tornado due to the sharp edges on the poly. It is a great string, but not as a cross string with natural gut. It will decrease the life of your hybrid. In general, stick with smooth slippery polys as your cross string - whatever it is.
     
  46. The Big Kahuna

    The Big Kahuna Semi-Pro

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    From the reviews posted and my experience, one of these SMOOTH poly strings would be best for a natural gut hybrid as a cross string:

    MSV Co-Focus
    Yonex Poly Tour Pro 125
    Tecnifibre Black Code
    Kirschbaum Pro Line No. II
    Signum Pro Poly Plasma
    Prince Beast XP
    WeissCANNON Silverstring
    WeissCANNON Scorpion
    Signum Pro Hyperion

    Depends on your playing style, racquet, and personal preference as to which one, but these are all quality strings and well suited as a cross string in a gut hybrid set-up.
     
  47. heartattack

    heartattack Semi-Pro

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    bigKaHuna, like you're taste of cross string. how about multifilament main instead of natural gut?
     
  48. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    Lol I'm still working my way through my reel of CoF. At the rate these stringjobs last, I won't be finished it for another 5-7 years!!
     
  49. lcalamar

    lcalamar Rookie

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    I just busted through my Pac Nat Gut 17g - in 6 hours play... saw heavy wear after just 2 hours... I must be doing something wrong...
    - I'm still learning how to string gut - I'm assuming any kinks I inadvertently get - may be a root cause of durability issues?
    - would switching to 16g help much?
    - Would switching to the Tough Gut help - and if so - what is the downside (other than cost)
    - I hit aggressively -and on a bad day will have several mis-hits. can that be a bigger issue with gut?
    - if that is the case why would I be having much less durability with gut over non-gut?

    Any other thoughts (refer to my previous picture).. I love this setup - but seem to be having huge durability (in other words - cost) issues... HELP!
     
  50. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    It's nice to have a 18x20 in a 89.5 sq inch frame :(
     

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