Pacific Classic Gut 1.30 x MSV Co-Focus 1.23

Discussion in 'Strings' started by Smasher08, Jul 10, 2011.

  1. Avadia

    Avadia Rookie

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    I just recently strung up my Dunlop AG 4D200 Tour with a similar setup -- I used Pacific Classic Gut 17 gauge mains with Co-focus 1.23 crosses. I strung at 59/56 lbs on a constant pull machine. Played with this setup for the first time last night. What really jumps out at me from the get-go with this setup was the sheer power off the stringbed. I expected the power to be muted because I strung it up a little tighter than I might normally, but wow! Lots of pop from this setup. I was having a hard time at first controlling volleys and overheads, and even groundstrokes were sailing on me at first.

    But I quickly dialed things in and really liked this combination. Plenty of power, but also plenty of spin. I was serving non-returnables all night and getting lots of first serves in the box with pace and placement. Topspin forehands and second serves had lots of action, and volleys, when hit firmly, didn't come back. Can't wait to play with this again now that the stringbed has had a chance to settle in some and I have gotten used to playing with it.
     
    #51
  2. The Big Kahuna

    The Big Kahuna Semi-Pro

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    I agree.

    I have been playing with SP Tornado in the mains and Mantis Comfort in the crosses (tensions noted below) and even switching those out gave me a little more pop. When I went to poly in the crosses and gut in the mains (KLIP Legend Tour 17 - also very well priced in comparison to VS or other natural gut strings) the power increase was notable while I gave up nothing in spin and achieved better feel and comfort. I also play with a softer racquet - the Youtek Prestige Pro - so I tried a softer poly in the crosses to start with good result (Kirshbaum Pro Line II 17).

    The MSV Co-Focus 18 sounds like a great option and I am stringing some up to test against another racquet with Weiss Silverstring 17 as the cross in the other. Both racquets will have KLIP Legend Tour 17 as mains.

    For the money, in a smooth poly, these three strings would seem to be my best options. Anyone compare these with a gut hybrid in the past and want to weigh in in the differences?

    How about you TimothyO?
     
    #52
  3. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    I've never tried Silverstring but I've only read good things about it. As for Co-Focus 18, it's playing like Co-Focus 17: awesome.
     
    #53
  4. The Big Kahuna

    The Big Kahuna Semi-Pro

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    Trying both of these right now (starting tomorrow). I will let you know how they compare.

    The Kirschbaum Pro Line II was nice. Very comfortable and powerful compared to the SP Tornado I used as crosses in my last comparison playtest for a reference set in initial comparison. Good spin and very good touch and feel. Large sweet spot and better pocketing compared to Tornado (which is textured and offers most friction to the gut).
     
    #54
  5. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    Nice, I'm definitely looking forward to hearing the comparison.

    Just as a guess, I think their biggest difference will be the notching of mains over time. In theory Co-Focus should notch them less and therefore make the mains last longer.

    But of course that's a testable hypothesis. :)
     
    #55
  6. Mig1NC

    Mig1NC Professional

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    Usually with poly when you get down to 18g the tension maintenance goes down as well.

    I'm curious to hear how long it lasts with 18g co-focus crosses
     
    #56
  7. Keifers

    Keifers Legend

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    Very interesting read. :)

    Thanks for posting.
     
    #57
  8. The Big Kahuna

    The Big Kahuna Semi-Pro

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    Two hours of play. Initial impressions (both very positive):

    Strings: KLIP Legend Tour 17g mains / MSV Co.-Focus 17L (1.18) crosses 48/52 - Great ball pocketing and lively response. Very "Liquid" or "Airy" sensation when hitting ("Spaghetti Strings"?). Great bite on the ball - terrific spin potential. Slightly muted power (balls stayed in play). Larger sweet spot. Tons of dwell time.

    Power: A-
    Control: (+ ranked) A-
    Feel: A
    Comfort: (+ ranked) A
    Spin: A+


    •Strings: KLIP Legend Tour 17g mains / Weiss CANNON Silverstring 17 (1.20) crosses 48/52 - Comments: Crisp, yet still very comfortable. Solid, with decent power, yet with good control.

    Power: A-
    Control: (+ ranked) A
    Feel: A-
    Comfort: (+ ranked) A-
    Spin: B

    More to come.
     
    #58
  9. jk175d

    jk175d Semi-Pro

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    Are you really stringing the gut mains LOWER than the poly crosses? I've never heard of anyone doing that. What's your reason?
     
    #59
  10. Avadia

    Avadia Rookie

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    I was wondering the exact same thing.
     
    #60
  11. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

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    A friend has borrowed my PSLGT for a few matches so that VS Team/CoFocus bed is roughly 40 hours now.

    My wife's is at 50+ easily and still doing great. Last weekend she ended up on top in a doubles round robin which included some A level ALTA players and ome former AA player returning to the sport.

    Even after just 6 or 8 hours of play my 300 is showing the same progression: better spin and feel with age. A friend who switched to VS/CoFocus from full multi is wildly pleased with the results.

    I strongly recommend stringing crosses 3-5 pounds looser than the mains. it does wonders for spin potential. 3 doesn't provide a huge benefit and 5 can get twangy, especially on kick serves. 4 is probably best.

    Edit...one thing I did notice is that if you hit with lots of spin you may want to trim the mains with nail clippers once in a while. They get hairy as they age. sort of like men's ears and noses! :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2011
    #61
  12. Keifers

    Keifers Legend

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    ^^ That last sentence, Timothy.... too much information!! :eek::)
     
    #62
  13. parasailing

    parasailing Hall of Fame

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    Have any of you guys hit with WC Scorpion, Silverstring, B5E, Kisrchbaum PL2, Signum Pro Poly Plasma, and can chime in on where Co-focus stands?

    I still have a few more strings to try out but here is my list of top crosses to use against VS mains.


    1. WC Scorpion
    2. WC Silverstring
    3. WC B5E
    4. Genesis Black Magic
    5. WC Mosquito Bite


    I still need to try SPPP, PL2, and Co-focus.
     
    #63
  14. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    Methinks Big Kahuna is our resident expert on the comparison between Co-Focus and Silverstring! :D

    Me, when I find something that works and I'm happy with, I tend to stick with it. All things considered, Co-Focus seems to be a fantastic cross at an excellent price. And I do think it's probably the spinniest cross out there.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2011
    #64
  15. The Big Kahuna

    The Big Kahuna Semi-Pro

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    No.

    The Gut mains are at 52 lbs.

    The Poly crosses are about 10% lower at 48 lbs.

    Sorry if the confused you.
     
    #65
  16. The Big Kahuna

    The Big Kahuna Semi-Pro

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    See my post on both the WC Silverstring and PL2 on page 3.
     
    #66
  17. The Big Kahuna

    The Big Kahuna Semi-Pro

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    Strings: KLIP Legend Tour 17g mains @ 52 / Kirschbaum Pro Line II 17g crosses @ 48

    Poly Stringforum ranking: 80% satisfaction / PPR 0.00 (NOTE: top rated Pro Line guage 1.15 @ 95% and 1.20 @ 90%)

    Power: A

    Control: B+

    Feel: B+

    Comfort: A-

    Spin: B+

    Tension Stability: B (dropped from 55 to 44 RA in 3 hours)

    OVERALL: B+

    Comments: Very comfortable and powerful compared to the Tornado reference set in initial comparison (as I was coming from that string in a poly/multi hybrid). Good spin and very good touch and feel. Large sweet spot and better pocketing compared to SP Tornado. The smooth texture is much better for spin production and likely durability of the gut.
     
    #67
  18. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    New thread for the Pac Classic 1.25 x Co-Focus 1.18 hybrid I'm now testing.

    I've also logged a few more hours on this one since its spinniness is becoming truly exceptional. However, I've also noticed that the mains are getting worn down at some crosses. I'm hesitant to call it "notching" since it doesn't resemble a syn gut's notches. But wearing down they are.

    So the ultimate lifespan of this setup will probably be somewhere in the neighbourhood of 40-45 hours. Which certainly is exceptional.

    If I was prepared to use string savers at the intersections that were wearing down, the longevity could certainly be extended well beyond this. But because of the dead poly feel problems that became more asserted by using 13 string savers before, I'm not going to go this route.

    To anyone who has their own stringing machine and wishes to try this setup, I'd recommend restringing your crosses every 20 or so hours, that way you could extend the life of this setup well towards 60-80 hours without any of the problems from dead poly crosses.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2011
    #68
  19. jk175d

    jk175d Semi-Pro

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    cool, that makes more sense. I think in your original post you wrote it backwards.
     
    #69
  20. Pitmiksovic

    Pitmiksovic Rookie

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    So after reading this thread and the other one just like it (vs mains/poly cross) I am convinced to try this setup.

    I am a 4.0 baseliner trying to become an all courter, I have somewhat heavy topspin, but yet I like to try and flatten out sometimes and also have recently been hitting a lot more slice BH, and I hit mostly kick serves.

    Current setup - LM radical mp, prince premier lt crosses, prince poly exp mains, 58 lbs for outdoor, 59 lbs for indoor. I have used other hybrids in the past, always a poly main and either solid core nylon or multifil crosses. I always like the 58-60 lb range no matter what particular poly mains or synth crosses I use.

    I ordered some Klip legend 16 ga and I decided to try the proline II 1.25.

    So my question is what tension would you guys suggest I start out at? I would prefer to be a little more control oriented. I was thinking 57 or 59 for the gut mains and 55 or 57 for the crosses but I really don't know because this setup is totally new to me. I don't want to be too tight, I don't want to be too loose, I don't want to end up cutting out this expensive string job!

    So what do y'all think?
     
    #70
  21. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    To give you a reference point, I always used to string multis a couple of pounds over middle of the recommended tension range for my racket.

    With this setup, I'm going one pound below the minimum of the recommended range. I'm a 5.0 all-courter, and I find that it's really added to my game. More power, more spin, and even more consistency.

    The thing about going loose with tensions is that generating spin in a hybrid like this depends on your mains sliding on the slick, smooth copoly crosses -- which ideally offer very little resistance to the mains snapping back into place at impact. The lower the tensions, the easier it is for them to snap back.

    And the more spin you get, the more control you have. I've found that at lower tensions (well, probably at any tension) gut just doesn't behave how a synthetic string would. I get a lot more touch and a lot more power.

    I think you ought to consider exactly what you want out of these strings. If you put insane Rafa-like spin on your shots, I don't know if you'll get the same kind of longevity I did (but I could be wrong). But then again, at 4.0 you probably don't yet have the racket head speed that would really start burning through strings. Are you a frequent stringbreaker?

    The other thing to consider is that the higher your tension, the faster a string will break.

    Personally, I'd suggest going down to 54 or 55 for the mains, only because you might get cold feet at the prospect of going down even lower. The general consensus around here is that the poly crosses should be strung 2-4 lbs lower than the mains. I go 3 lbs lower.

    But honestly, if you want to string up in the high 50s because that's your tension and gut's very new to you, that's fine. But in all honesty I don't think you'll be getting the full effect and full benefit of this particular type of hybrid.
     
    #71
  22. Pitmiksovic

    Pitmiksovic Rookie

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    Ok cool, thanks for the advice. Yeah I am worried if I don't go loose enough I won't maximize the benefits of this setup or the life of the gut, but I also worry about going too loose and having no control.

    As for string breaking, i get about 10 hrs out of the premier lt crosses, I used to get probably 15 hrs out of duraflex as a cross.

    So it sounds like maybe i should try 57/53 to start and after hitting with that for a little bit maybe get down to 55/52 for the 2nd one.

    Thanks again, I'll post back on how it goes.
     
    #72
  23. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    Anyone have a good alternative for the CoFocus copoly crosses with gut mains? I want to soften things up a little. Are there any synguts that are round and slippery like CoFocus?
     
    #73
  24. JT_2eighty

    JT_2eighty Hall of Fame

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    Head RIP Feel as found in Intellistring hybrid pack is your answer. To be sure, this is not the same RIP Feel as found in Intellitour, as the Intellistring cross is white instead of natural, and has a coating to it that is extremely slippery. There is no similar isospeed string either that I've seen to mimic the exact feel and material of Intellistring cross. Sucks that you can only get it in that hybrid pack, but worth it.

    I've used that exact string combo with VS mains in the past, and it was too spinny and powerful for me, moreso than the gut/msv combo, which I also tried at that time, or any other gut/poly combo that I've used (and I've tried a whole slew of em).

    As far as a syn gut, they all notch over time, increasing friction immensely; while RIP Feel has no core, it is the same material from the outer to inner layers, it frays like gut, and is very slick throughout even as it frays.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2011
    #74
  25. GlenK

    GlenK Professional

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    I'm having good luck with smooth copolys that are 1.25mm or less in my x's. Any textured poly or 16g as x's seems to hamper spin generation a bit as compared to the smaller smooth copoly.

    I just like the feel of the VS gut sliding over those small smooth copolys. Really seems to be the ticket for me..
     
    #75
  26. Mig1NC

    Mig1NC Professional

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    Like this ?
    http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Head_Intellistring_String/descpageACHEAD-HIS16.html
     
    #76
  27. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    #77
  28. Boricua

    Boricua Hall of Fame

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    What do the guys who changed from full multi say?
     
    #78
  29. Pitmiksovic

    Pitmiksovic Rookie

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    So I had my first hit today with the new setup of klip legend 16 main/pro line II 1.25 crosses. I ended up going 57/53 and glad I did. Any tighter on the crosses would have been too firm. I'm amazed how much looser you can string and still maintain control with this setup. I might go down to 55/51 like smasher originally suggested, not sure yet because outdoor season is about thru here and I do like to go a little tighter for indoor, so I might just wait til next spring to do that, don't know yet, doesn't really matter now anyway...

    So anyway, my thoughts on this setup compared to the poly main/multi cross that I am used to:

    Control was much better. Spin was far superior. Comfort was an improvement once it broke in a little. Power was better and easier to control. The ball seemed to go thru the court better. With the old setup I felt like sometimes my forehand would kinda die off a little where now my forehand was exploding off the court. Backhand was wonderful. I was actually able to impart spin on my 2 hander! But the slice was so nice to hit I didn't want to use my 2 hander. Slice stayed nice and low, never floating on me. Angles were easy to generate with it. I'm a little afraid this setup will make me a lazy stay back and slice backhands all day kind of player because there was just so much bite on the ball it felt incredible. I could hit any spot on the court I wanted with the slice, never been able to do that before.

    I have been having problems all summer with double faulting and today that was not the case. Better spin made me feel more comfortable going for more on my 1st and 2nd serve and they all seemed to drop in, yet with a bit more zip on them. Volleys were more solid and accurate. Volleys are my biggest weakness, they never have too much on them but today I felt good punching them and they were solid and had good pace.

    My partner even commented that I didn't miss ANYTHING today.

    It looks like durabilty won't be an issue, there was no signs of wear like with my old setup after just one session of hitting.

    So basically improved feel, better spin, and more controllable power. I think I'll be sticking with this setup.
     
    #79
  30. JT_2eighty

    JT_2eighty Hall of Fame

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    Yep, and get the white, not natural.

    I agree it sucks to have a half-set of string you don't want, but for instance, a string like Recoil (the only other 'slick' multi I can think of), costs $18, so your $9 Intellistring comes out the same cost to you (if you absolutely find nothing to do with the RIP Power mains). If Intellistring works for you, then buy 8 packs at a time and the rate drops to like 7.50? Still comes out cheaper than most full sets of premium multi, and IMO, RIP Feel is premium stuff.

    Also, Isospeed does make Head strings, and while I haven't tried them all, perhaps they do have one that plays similarly, I'd like to give Axon multi a try; maybe when indoor season rolls around and if Polystar becomes less comfy in the winter, I will fall back to my Gut/RIP hybrids and try some other options out like Axon, etc.

    The only other option is the Mojo Rig, Gut/Isospeed Pro Classic, it's the same material as RIP Feel, just not as slick as the white Intellistring crosses. FWIW, Intellistring crosses lasted long enough to justify losing the other half set ($4) to be relegated into my box of unused strings.
     
    #80
  31. Mig1NC

    Mig1NC Professional

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    Eh, well you could always sell the other half sets of RIP on the Talk Tennis Classifieds.
     
    #81
  32. JT_2eighty

    JT_2eighty Hall of Fame

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    Yep, I used to string them in a full bed for a friend who didn't care what was in his racquet. Seemed to work fine for him, very similar to full RIP Control.
     
    #82
  33. The Big Kahuna

    The Big Kahuna Semi-Pro

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    PLAYTEST UPDATE:

    After 6 hours of play with the MSV Co-Focus 18g hybrid @ 48 (with KLIP Legend Tour 17g mains @ 52) in my Head Youtek Prestige Pro I am ready to declare this playtest to an end. Every time I put down this racquet to try one with another poly (Weiss Silverstring or Kirshbaum Pro Line II) while they both feel very good, I can wait to get back to the MSV. The feel and ball pocketing is SO much better. I have never felt strings with so much comfort, spin, control, and feel. The power is dialed down just a tad from the other two strings, but more balls go IN the court as a result. My groundstrokes and serves are much more consistent than they have been with anything else to date and it feels like the racquet is simply an part of my arm - it is almost as if I am "throwing the ball" back. The sweet spot feels huge and the picketing is insane! I am totally addicted. It is really like a whole new game for me. Fantastic!
     
    #83
  34. gloumar

    gloumar Rookie

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    I'm testing this one in its 1.27 jauge (nearly 16) version in a full setup on my Ozone TOUR MP 16*19.
    Just love it. I come from a very soft and control copoly, and I keep the same ball-pocketing with the cofocus, but with significantly more pop and tension holding (the string doesnt move despite the pretty low tension and the open pattern).

    Very cheap and effective string, worth a try :)
    My new standard.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2011
    #84
  35. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    Rainfall + damp court =

    [​IMG]

    Update - 38 hours

    Chalk this one up to a lesson learned the hard way. I spent half an hour using the roll-dry with my hitting partner and the court didn't seem too bad. I'd used these strings in drizzle before without any problem, and for the better part of an hour they were fine.

    But then I noticed one of the mains swell up at an intersection. I tried putting in a string saver there, but to no avail. Four minutes later it snapped, right at that spot.

    Lesson learned, RIP.

    I have no doubt that it could have lasted much longer, but for the weather. And it definitely got spinnier and spinnier as it aged.

    I'd definitely recommend this setup for rackets with 95 sq" and larger head sizes, especially those with open string patterns. For small headed rackets that have dense patterns, I think it takes too long to develop the spinniness that a thinner gauge can provide from the get-go -- unless, of course, you need strings with fantastic durability.
     
    #85
  36. D-money

    D-money Rookie

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    I will be having something similar to this strung up on my racket. It will be a 2012 Pure drive roddick. I normally string polys at 50 to 52 lbs for normal co polys lower for stiffer polys and higher for the really soft ones like BHB7 or cyclone tour. I normally string multis and syn guts at 60lbs in full beds. I'm looking for more feel and comfort but with hopefully equal power, spin and control.
    With that information what would you/or anyone here suggest stringing the mains and crosses in a setup of Klip armour pro natural gut 1.30 and MSV co. focus 1.23? I was thinking 60/56 or 57 for the crosses?
     
    #86
  37. D-money

    D-money Rookie

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    I know this is an old one but I've got this setup on the way and I don't want to waste the gut stringing it too low. A little too low in the Roddick turns almost any string into a rocket launcher.
     
    #87

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