Pacific Prime Gut Orange Bullfiber

Discussion in 'Strings' started by jim e, Jul 22, 2012.

  1. jim e

    jim e Hall of Fame

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    I strung some Pacific Prime Gut Orange Bullfiber last week for 1st time.
    I string a lot of gut with my stringing buisness.Mostly VS and now Wilson Nat. gut, and i know how to handle gut and string it.
    The orange bull starting fraying the orange fibers just unraveling it from the coil.
    After stringing it , the string looked so frayed with those orange fibers that you would think it has 16 or more hours of hit time on it. I never had a set of gut look so frayed before.After a couple hours of hitting even more frayed where most of the orange is just wearing away.
    I'm not sure if it was just that set I received or it is typical of that string. I know how to string gut properly, as I string a lot of it, even years ago back in the 60's when gut did not have the nice coatings like todays do I strung a lot of gut, so I know how to properly string gut.

    On a positive note, this string hits very soft, kind of reminds me of their Blue spiral nat. gut that Pacific made at one time. I like the string,has great power, feel and control, just what I like, but the durability seems questionable for now as compared to other quality guts.

    Was wondering if anyone else experienced this. Jim
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2012
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  2. parasailing

    parasailing Hall of Fame

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    Is it as stretchy as the original VS gut? I currently using Wilson natural gut as a replacement for the original VS but it's still not as stretchy as the original VS.
     
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  3. jim e

    jim e Hall of Fame

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    It is a softer feel than VS original, and Wilsons Gut as well. Reminds me of Pacifics Blue Spiral Imperial gut that Pacific made a while back, as that was a more softer feeling string as well. I really like the way it hits and feel, but the way the orange spiral frayed so soon is a concern to me, and after a couple hours hitting, it looks worse than some of my VS and Wilsons strings that logged in a great # of hours, as I am not much of a string breaker, as I hit a realtively flat ball, so the gut typically lasts a good long while.Like I said, the strings orange fiber started unraveling just uncoiling the set, and when I finished stringing it it looked well used. I would be ashamed to hand a racquet like that to a customer, so I'm glad it was mine. I got the string at TW, so I assume it was not old stock, as I'm sure they move their inventory rather fast. I guess I will find out next time I try to string it if it does the same as I purchased 2 sets to try it out, but I won't put it in a clients racquet until I find out how the next set strings up.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2012
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  4. pennc94

    pennc94 Semi-Pro

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    Really interesting. Loved the Pacific Imperial Blue Spiral as well. Was the softest gut I ever played. No visible structures in the gut either. The Blue Spiral also suffered from the unraveling of the blue ribbon. Some time since that string was available, so I cant recall if it broke prematurely or not. Was curious about the Orange. Looks like an update to Blue Spiral?
     
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  5. c_hari_c

    c_hari_c Semi-Pro

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    I am also curious about this bull fiber thing. For almost $47 per set, there has to be something special. right? Or does the manufacturing process is so expensive they tack on the fees to the string? I have 2 other types of pacific gut string I am trying to put on my racket and see.
     
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  6. tomseek

    tomseek New User

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    I've hit with this orange bull and must say that it's much softer than the Pacific Classic that I usually use. When I've strung it up, fraying was never an issue before hitting the courts. However, as you play with it, this string did fray and wear down significantly faster than the Pacific Classic.

    So, to your first question, it should not fray just from stringing. For the second part, after hitting, this string does fray rather quickly. You might have gotten a bum set of gut.

    Tom
     
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  7. UCSF2012

    UCSF2012 Hall of Fame

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    This is something we need pictures to believe.
     
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  8. mctennis

    mctennis Hall of Fame

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    Why do we need pics to believe what he says? I believe what he says without seeing pictures.
     
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  9. scotus

    scotus Legend

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    I agree. jim e has been here a long time and made many contributions, especially to the string/stringing threads.

    There's no reason not to believe him.

    I myself have run into some Pacific gut with questionable quality control, so it doesn't come as a surprise to me.
     
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  10. jim e

    jim e Hall of Fame

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    Okay, below is picture. I now loggged in apout 3-3.5 hours hitting with these strings. With VS or Wilson gut the strings will go about 30-40 hours for me before they even start to fray, as I hit a realtively flat ball.

    Its the Orange fiber that frays away from the remainder of the string.

    This was noticable even just uncoiling the string before I even started to string up the racquet. Once strung the fraying was more noticable, and then hittting frayed even more. VS and Wilson does not do this so soon. Thats why I was commenting if this has happened to anyone else, or possibly I just got an old set of strings that got pushed back in their inventory, but they were purchased from TW.

    BTW, I never took pictures before I strung it showing the fraying, or immediately after I strung it, but this is what I have now after 3-3.5 hours hitting since you asked for pictures.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2012
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  11. Uvijek Argen

    Uvijek Argen Semi-Pro

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    Yeah Jim E, so you dont feel alone in this case, similar thing happen to me when I bought some Pacific tough gut (copper color). I bought 3 sets, One I strung full bed and it was unraveling everywhere, and the other 2 sets broke while starting the first main ( I got certain % refund for it). They were all bad batches...very toasty..kinda felt like they were laying on the sun for hours.
    I dont have all the experience that you have stringing it, but in the past 2 years I strung gut with no problem and not a piece of unravel on the string(That goes with Tonic, Klip Legen, VS and Wilson gut "my favorite now")​
     
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  12. parasailing

    parasailing Hall of Fame

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    That's just terrible QC on Pacific's part. How can you expect someone to pay $47 more than Babolat VS and not get quality. Too bad I missed the opportunity to try out Pacific Blue Spiral. It would have been nice to see what they played like.

    Jim E - Let us know if the other set has the same issue as I do love a stretchier version of VS which BT7 destroyed.
     
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  13. UCSF2012

    UCSF2012 Hall of Fame

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    This is what I noticed from the picture. There seems to be an outer wrap that's pink winding through the coil. Furthermore, look at where the fraying originates. Every long strand of fray appears to originate from where the cross and mains INTERSECT. It doesn't really START in between the intersection. What this tells me is that friction burn is the cause of the fraying, with the crosses sawing through the main's outer wrap. The cause of the friction burn could be from 1) pulling the crosses through the mains without moving it the crosses while pulling, or 2) from the mains moving while hitting a tennis ball. It's probably a combination of both. Fraying right after stringing without hitting the ball came from stringing error, while additional fraying came from hitting the ball.

    Considering there's a pink outer wrap, the string will fray quickly regardless, but you have to minimize friction burn while stringing the crosses.
     
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  14. scotus

    scotus Legend

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    How about this is really badly made string for the outrageous price Pacific is charging?

    One would expect this from $10-15 gut, but not from $47 gut.
     
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  15. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    The set of Orange Bullfiber I strung didn't do that. I've got another one that I've been saving. Now I'm curious to see what it does.

    I agree on the play, it's really soft & powerful.

    The reason for the cost isn't the spiral, this gut is supposed to be from the only the best part of the intestine.
     
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  16. jim e

    jim e Hall of Fame

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    Stringer error is not the reason here at all. It was strung by me, and I have been stringing gut since 1968, and I know how to handle the string. My gut jobs came out prefect even back in the day before the nice coatings that todays have.Over the years I have strung more gut than many here have strung synthetics.I know how to string it.
    This string the orange outrwrap started cracking and coming undone just uncoiling it before I even started installing it in the racquet, no friction burn there.So if it starts with the uncoiling, naturally it will even unravel more just installing it. It was even looking bad after the mains were only done.
    No doubt it was the set I received, and since it was the 1st time I strung this orange bull, I was just inquiring if this happened to anyone else, or if this may be an isolated case.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2012
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  17. esgee48

    esgee48 Hall of Fame

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    Sounds / looks like the orange stripe was not bonded correctly to the rest of the gut fibers. Too late now, but I would have asked for a refund as soon as it started to unravel just from opening the package and uncoiling the string. 2 cents.
     
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  18. scotus

    scotus Legend

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    2 cents that could have turned into 47 dollars!
     
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  19. esgee48

    esgee48 Hall of Fame

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    Yes. Phone conversation follows:

    Jim: Hello, I just opened a fresh package of 'blah blah blah' and the orange stripe is unraveling from the string when I uncoiled the string.

    TW: That's not good. We'll send you another package. Please return the defective strings to us in the enclosed mailer.

    Jim: Thanks guys.

    :):twisted:
     
    #19
  20. UCSF2012

    UCSF2012 Hall of Fame

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    There will always be room for improvement, regardless of how good you think you are because you've been doing it for a while. If you've been doing it since 1968, that either means you're really good because you've had time to learn and correct your technique as needed, or it means that you've been doing it harshly since 1968. Different strings are made differently, and you have to adjust for some strings. You can't use the same technique twenty years ago with some of today's strings. If this is your first time string this particular string, that alone tells me you may have to make adjustments to technique when stringing this particular string. Now use your 40 some years of experience to figure out how to overcome the problem.

    I'm just saying, watch out for it. The unraveling STARTED at the intersection of the mains and crosses for nearly EVERY major loose strand. I personally just wouldn't buy another set. It's not worth the money to have this problem. But if you decide you like how this string plays, then take an added precaution for this particular string.
     
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  21. jim e

    jim e Hall of Fame

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    There is even some unraveling with the orange stripe on the outside of racquet (no intersections there). No question I received a bad set. I was just inquireing if anyone else could have received the same.

    There should be no different adjustments stringing for this gut over any other quality gut (note I said quality gut). Like I said, I use to string gut years ago that did not have any coatings like todays do like Victor Imperial and Bow Brand that came in the 2-17 foot sections per set. Those held up fine, I even have a racquet that I strung back in 1971 with Bow Brand Gut and is still playable, and much less fraying than this set of Orange bull. Blaming this one on the stringer is Bull.

    Heck, you wanted for me to post pictures for you to believe, and the only picture I was able to produce was after the fact, after hitting for 3 or so hours,so this is what I gave you. I guess I should have taken pictures unraveling the string and along the process, but that is not typical for me as I usually do not take pictures of stringing as all I do is get the job done in best way I can do.

    I do agree there always is room for improvement. I always try and get the proper information for anything I do. This is why for stringing I also joined the USRSA (that org. was not even in buisness when I first started), and I am a member of the GSS alliance as they have some of the best stringers in the world that post there (BTW Tim S. from the GSS alliance who is a member of the Wilson String team told me it looked like a bad set of string as well). Even some nice people here there can be learning lessons.I picked up a great way to string ATW from Irvin on these boards, and the list can go on and on, as I agree there is always room to learn that is not the issue here at all bottom line is I know the proper way to handle nat. gut and have strung up more gut than I can even recall, and believe me all that gut is not man handled and strung the wrong way for all those years at the $ of it all. I typically keep a large inventory of gut, and my supply was starting to dwindle down some, as this is why I decide to try a couple sets of the Orange bull to see if this would be good for me and my gut clients as well. For some reason this 1st experience with this string does not sit to well with me.

    I have a racquet that I strung with Pacifics Blue Spiral in Dec. 2010, and logged a good # of hours on it and it still looks great,hardly any fraying, and it strung up nice like any quality gut would be expected to and that was a cheaper Pacific Gut than the Orange bull.

    Its funny when people that don't know any better will blame the stringer.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2012
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  22. UCSF2012

    UCSF2012 Hall of Fame

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    Read the post again. I gave an explanation based on an observation. The string has a thin outer wrap that's unraveling, nearly all of which originate at the intersection of the mains and crosses. (emphasis on intersection, again). Something sawed through the thin outer wrap, as in stringing or hitting the ball. Even if you didn't saw through while stringing, it will saw through from hitting the ball. This fraying will occur regardless. This is what happens when a string has a thin outer wrap. It will unravel over time.
     
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  23. insiderman

    insiderman Rookie

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    Geez! Beat a "dead-horse" here... yes, it seems you received a suspect / 'bad' set - one out of what I'd imagine, are 'millions' that pacific produces.. hey, it is after all... NATURAL! So there are obviously some potential 'natural' problems that can 'naturally' happen once there is tension applied.

    My Q here is why take up the time here to 'post' all of these numerous posts (to/by you all...) and to the OP, simply why not just contact the company directly with some detailed data/info (like done here) and request some warranty assistance here??????
    seems logical...
     
    #23
  24. jim e

    jim e Hall of Fame

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    I was not going to request any warranty, as that was not my concern. I was just wondring if anyone else strung this string up with similar issues is all, as I was not asking for a stringing critique or warranty issue.
     
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  25. spdskr

    spdskr Rookie

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    Strung up a full set of 16L this past winter. The string held up great (6+ hrs)until I played on a damp day. Looked like your set within 1.5 hrs of playing in damp conditions. Set lasted another 1.5 hrs of hitting in the dry before it broke. I'm confident it would have lasted longer (12+ hrs) if I had not used it that one damp day.
     
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  26. pug

    pug Semi-Pro

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    Jim,

    I have not used it, but I appreciate you posting on this. Please ignore all of the negative comments from the uninformed "experts." If only they would spend time trying to learn from others rather than tearing them down.

    Keep us posted.
     
    #26
  27. jim e

    jim e Hall of Fame

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    Well I had some free time to string up the other set of Orange bull and so far logged on 10 hours with it and hardly any fraying!!
    This set was totally different from last set that frayed just uncoiling it.
    Evidently I received a bad set with that 1st one I used.
    I do not have our digital camera but was able to use scanner on racquet, and strings look great even after the 10 hours.

    It hits very similar to the Pacific Imperial Blue spiral that they had a while back, except more expensive.I was just surprised that I got such a bad set with that 1st one as it is such an expensive string.

    Pic from scanner below.This is after 10 hours of hitting, and still looks great, where the 1st set unraveled just uncoiling the string.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2012
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  28. julian

    julian Hall of Fame

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    I had more problems with this string

    Jim e,
    please read
    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=439671
    I gave up on the string because I cannot be sure that a piece in the sealed envelope is LONG enough.
    Talking to Pacific is NOT a piece of cake
    I managed to agreviate my stringer as well
    I do NOT expect any sympathy
    I am just letting you know that there are more problems
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2012
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  29. jim e

    jim e Hall of Fame

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    Funny thing you said about the ends, as my 2nd package had the ends a lot thicker in diameter, more so than would allow it to go through the grommet. I had to cut off the one end, (few inches) , and there was still plenty of string to string an OS 18 x 19 pattern racquet as the string does stretch.If you string it 2 piece and just cut off the one thick end only that the main string would have after the mains are in then use a starting clamp to begin the cross strings and use that thick end on the starting clamp, as you need more string on that end to reach the tension head, and when you are ready to remove starting clamp, tension ,remove starting clamp, clamp with machine clamp, snip off the thick end and tie off, and you will still have plenty of string.

    For a set of string, being the most expensive one thats sold, quality control should be top notch, but is evidently lacking.
    Its ashame, as I do like the way this string hits.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2012
    #29
  30. julian

    julian Hall of Fame

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    Hi,
    according to Pacific the string is thicker on ends BY DESIGN.
    I got an E-mail from them on this subject.
    I am NOT sure whether I should posts the letter here.
    Please try BOTH E-mail addresses:
    usainfo@pacific.com
    mail@pacific.com
    I have one more E-mail address but I would prefer that you would use
    2 addresses above first
    If you want to reach me directly please see my signature below
    Thank you for your response
     
    #30
  31. JT_2eighty

    JT_2eighty Hall of Fame

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    I've used a lot of Pacific Gut and notice the ends do tend to be a bit thicker too. However, I just snip the thickest part and like jim e says, the string stretches more than enough to string my racquet, 18x20 using two-piece method. In fact, I am even able to string two of my racquets, gut/poly setups, with one pack of Pacific Tough gut, and my stick requires 21-feet for mains... so that is like 42 feet of gut from one pack, that I get from a 40-foot set with a few inches snipped off the ends... at least in my experience, the string stretches enough, especially if going 60+ pounds. I use a dropweight, which also you need some extra string to make it to the tensioner. So far so good with Pacific... I've gone through 10+ packs over the years. (although haven't tried the Bull gut, too pricey, I like toughGut... it's very durable and playable).
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2012
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  32. spdskr

    spdskr Rookie

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    Thick ends are by design

    I've strung with Pacific guts for a number of years. Tough Gut and Prime Gut (including Bullfiber) have thicker diameter ends. I always have enough string after cutting a couple of inches from each end. I've yet to have a pack of Tough or Prime exhibit durability issues (as long as the strings stay dry).

    My current favorite is Tough Gut 16.5 mains with poly crosses. I usually cut the strings at 15-20 hrs due to the dead poly.
     
    #32

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