Paintjob Story On Espn (2004)

Discussion in 'Pros' Racquets and Gear' started by tennisphotog, Aug 8, 2005.

  1. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Not maybe, the pros make A LOT fewer errors than recreational players, even though they're hitting with a lot more spin and pace and accuracy.

    BTW, wood racquets were much more flexible than today's stiff graphite racquets so they were far less accurate, and the tiny sweetspots in a 65 sq. in. head certainly didn't help. In any case, McEnore was filming a commercial so I doubt he took it very seriously anyway.
     
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  2. superstition

    superstition Hall of Fame

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    He also used a very low string tension.
     
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  3. blackman

    blackman Guest

    HI guys. New o the forum. Federer's racket... i know they say its the ncode 90 but i have both the ncode and the 6.0 85. the main visual difference, where the grip ends and the racket starts, the lenght to the throat is longer on the 85... federer's picture shows a longer section there. it sure looks like the 85...
     
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  4. Ten_is

    Ten_is Rookie

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    I think he is still using the 85 in my opinion. Perhaps it's all modified with the latest technology but having the weight be the same etc.. to his specs.
     
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  5. blackman

    blackman Guest

    fed's racket

    just saw a photo... 16 X 18 string pattern like my 85s. the ncode has a 16 X 19 string pattern. unless its a custom... looks like an 85
     
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  6. johncauthen

    johncauthen Semi-Pro

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    Where is that photo? If you can produce a photo of Federer using a 16 X 18 string pattern, that would help substatiate some of the things I've been saying.

    That's right. That's what I noticed on a few occasions. In the last third of his career, they were trying to give Pete conventionally balanced racquets, and he couldn't play worth a hoot with them.

    The racquet companies are enaged in a massive effort to give us what they want us to have, rather than giving us what works the best.

    Where is the picture of Federer using a 16 X 18 string pattern? What is the link, or give instructions on how to get to that picture. I have noticed Federer using two different types of racquets in the same tournament, and showed photos, but skeptics could not be compelled to believe the photographic evidence unless the racquets had two different string patterns that they can count. Where's that photo?
     
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  7. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Which paintjob was on the racquet and when was this pic taken?

    For a short period of time in early 2002, Federer did indeed use a real PS 6.0 85 with a HPS 6.0 95 Tour (red, black and yellow like on the HPS 6.1) paintjob on it.
     
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  8. thomas martinez

    thomas martinez Professional

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    Hate to break it to you John, but Pete had his weight, balance, swing, and handles made for by either Bosworth or one of their ex employees at that time. His frames were sent to the customizer in a raw state, meaning no handle, no extra weight added to the frame. That was all done on a frame by frame basis according to what the raw weight, balance and swing was.
     
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  9. ClimbK2

    ClimbK2 New User

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    Racquet Research & Weighting

    Can anyone share his personnal experience with a super-handle heavy racquet? Did you add weight at the top of the handle or at the bottom?

    More Background (expanding on previous posts):
    The #1 link under a Google search of tennis racquets is www.racquetresearch.com (mentioned by previous post). The web site indicates that the more head-light the better. The POG was the "best" rated racquet, but was beaten by adding a large weight to the handle of a Wilson Hammer racquet (a butt-cap). Anyone know where to get a weighted butt-cap?
     
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  10. johncauthen

    johncauthen Semi-Pro

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    I have learned how to make super handle weighted racquets work for anyone, so the racquets or weights I can provide will answer everything about handle weighted racquets, and whether or not Sampras and Federer use them. I showed the concept to Wilson in 1988, but couldn't duplicate it consistently until now, because the racquets that worked in 1988 had lighter heads than almost any racquet available today. So I had to make the handle weight more efficient, I should say perfectly efficient before it wouldn't feel heavy on the more head heavy racquets we have today. That was a big task. It took 18 years.

    The escape that "expert" racquet preparers hide behind is that they match the specs of racquets and say certain player like certain specs. Actually, all players like super handle weighted racquets when those racquets are right, but in fact the racquets don't have to be precise in their specifications, such as overall weight, balance, etc. You only have to get the upper handle weight to counter the head. If the weights are shaped right, which was my part that took 18 years, you take those weights and try different amounts to find the right one for your racquet. It's simple. When these weights are available, everyone can know how much difference they make in your game, and people will see that the #258 player really can threaten Nadal if that player is given the super handle weighted racquets.
     
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  11. vsbabolat

    vsbabolat Legend

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    johncauthen you really don't know how it works with a racquet customizer do you? I am really getting tired of your old song and dance. Would you please stop until you can give any real concrete proof to your conspiracy.
     
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  12. therob

    therob Guest

    okay, i'm willing to give this thing a shot, since, knowing a former professional who was top 200 (his name was hassan), I known for years about the marketing and the truth of modern racquets. Always using heavy racquets, i am now adding about an extra 3 ounces of lead tape to the top of the handle on my Wilson ProStaff 6.0 St. Vincent version. It sticks out, but will this achieve the effect you claim will work?
     
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  13. Cross-Strings

    Cross-Strings New User

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    Interesting post. However, for those of us who play and follow tennis religiously, this is extremely old news. For example, back in the 90s, Stefan Edberg played with a Wilson Pro Staff 90 painted to look like a Wilson Pro Staff Classic 6.1; after playing with the PS 6.1 for a while, Edberg found that he preferred the PS 90 and decided to go back to playing with his old racquet. Wilson, however, had other ideas and a compromise was born between the two when Edberg went back to playing with a painted up PS 90.

    I'm not particularly bothered by this practice. Anyone who buys a racquet simply because a certain superstar player uses the racquet deserves to be duped. Afterall, do these people really think that the racquet they purchase at the local sporting goods store and which is supposed to be used by say, Roger Federer, is identical to those racquets with which Federer competes? Most pros customize their racquets extensively (usually, to make them heavier, but also by using hybrid string jobs, special grips and removing the bumpers), so the racquet you buy at the store, even if the same model as the one that the pro uses, ends up being very very different from the one used by the endorsing pro.
     
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  14. Roger_Federer.

    Roger_Federer. Semi-Pro

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    This is cool, its funny how even pros and pro companies can sometimes scam consumers with false advertising
     
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  15. PernforsFan

    PernforsFan New User

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    The article is incorrect when it says all this is due to technology. That's largely the case now, but it started decades ago with players signing contracts with racket companies whose rackets they didn't really like.

    The Dunlop Maxply Fort was often painted -- Ilie Nastase made it look like his Adidas autograph model, and Rod Laver had Chemold cosmetics painted on (that one was especially weird because I believe he endorsed a *metal* Chemold model).

    Bjorn Borg's Bancroft Borg (in North America) and Donnay Allwood (elsewhere) had extra plies of wood compared with the ones sold to the rest of us.
     
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  16. NebAce1

    NebAce1 Guest

    How can I apply your system to my racket. Thanks. And my racket is a Prince O3 Tour MP.
     
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  17. Anton

    Anton Hall of Fame

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    I think people obsess too much over this - pro tennis players are creatures of habit and it is so for good reasons. Us amatures can dick around with different rackets but at a pro level often the step back in playing with new equipment is not worth whatever benefit new equipment might have.

    It is isn't that older rackets are better - they aren't, rackets have gotten more comfortable, more powerful, more stable and with better selection of balance and etc.

    Many pros just need the racket to be a familiar extension of their body. Yes it is dishonest to try to fool people into thinking you are playing with a newer racket when you aren't, but you really do have to be a fool to think that a racket will make you a much better player. Definetly, you'll not be any worse off playing with the frame you think they are playing with then what they actually play with.

    IMO Johns stories are nonsense (no offense)

    There is a funny story. An 11-year-old walked up to me when I was hitting at the wall outside my apartment. He asked if he could try what I was doing. It looked like fun. I was slamming the ball into the wall. I gave him that Babolat. He wouldn’t stop, as he spent about 15 minutes hitting, and started to look like a pro, even though he had never played tennis. He asked his father to buy him a racquet. I saw him again with his new racquet, but he was not looking like a pro, and getting angry, throwing the new racquet. I never saw him again.

    With my racquet, he loved tennis. With a proper new racquet, he hated tennis. If I sound delusional it is because I can’t get anyone in the industry to work with me, or believe me.


    Comeon, you expect us to believe that we have spend months and years and decades refining our strokes, while all we had to do was grab your racket for 15 min? I'd think it to be an insult to our intelligence, if I didn't think you are actually convinced of it.

    NEVER seen ANYONE pick up a different racket and all of a sudden their timing and technique improved substantially overnight or even over a week. In fact most of the time, while they might feel like they like the frame players actually play worse and make more mistakes until they re-adjust.

    I also know that I can pick up a $20 Kmart special and have no problem whooping a 3.0-3.5 player and that somebody like federer can more then likely beat me with a ping pong racket.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2007
    #67
  18. tennispro11

    tennispro11 Hall of Fame

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    I watched Andy Roddick play at an exhibition with the Jensen brothers and Sam Querry. As soon as I saw Andy's racquet I knew that it wasn't the new babolat. It was just painted on and I was blown away. I was teaching tennis at the place where he was and before the match he let me see his racquets and talk to him for a bit. His Babolat is heavier than I ever thought it would be. I am not sure what kind of babolat he is using but it is different than any I have ever seen. He gave one to our club so we could sell to raise money. I have talked to a tennis racquet specialist in Denver and he told me he could make me any kind of racquet I wanted, if i just gave him the frame of the size I wanted. I must have had blinders on for a long time because I honestly thought that what the pros were playing with, we could buy as consumers.
     
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  19. berdych200

    berdych200 Guest

    what racket is berdych using????
     
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  20. hyogen

    hyogen Hall of Fame

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    so I am going to add weight to the top of my handle and see how it goes. can't hurt anything :)
     
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  21. aquablue

    aquablue New User

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    funny

    :D actually i am quite curious and i'm just in this fase i want to buy a new racket as my old dunlop revelation select pro are getting tired.
    so offcourse i read reviews ect and look at what the pros are using, and id like to test nadals racket and so on.
    but reading about PJ makes one wonder what to do?
    3 days ago i was in my favourite tennis shop here and he was stringing MALISSE's rackets, so i had to had a look and feel. ps somewhere else here on this site there is a listing from the french open where someone claims what all players used as string tensions, for MALISSE i know know for sure , its a standard racket , no weight added ( not speaking off a few grams to correct balance ), no weight added to his handle , its laso a standard prince and no special strings either , same string same tension used evrywhere 27kgs for those interested , the only mod is on the bottom he uses a very big buttcap to avoid the racket flying off while serving, and he also wraps the grip ridicoulsy far ( till a few cm over where the beam splits )

    unfortunately i'm not a prince fan, so i'm not going to test it.
    but if any have suggestions ( especially since i love my old rackets ) what i should try.:D
     
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  22. hyogen

    hyogen Hall of Fame

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    why would he be taken away his racquet privileges????
     
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  23. cuongnet

    cuongnet Guest

    Originally Posted by BeHappy
    could you please think about maybe putting up the edberg-chang FO match whenever you're next thinking of uploading some matches?
     
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  24. hyogen

    hyogen Hall of Fame

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    so I tried it out and I have found that it helps me significantly for my groundstrokes. When I had the weight "right" after playing around with it...my serves were not as good. I had my serve down pat before I added the weight, but I guess it will take more practice to get it down with added weight.
     
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  25. AlpineCadet

    AlpineCadet Hall of Fame

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    "Head's Kevin Kempin says sales of the company's Radical racket are often proportional to how well Agassi is doing. Head officials "won't dupe the public," Kempin said."

    With a revisit, this is still quite ridiculous to read.
     
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  26. pmerk34

    pmerk34 Legend

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    Edberg was so close to being the first guy to serve and volley his way to the title at Roland Garros in what, three decades? He ran out of gas. Although I was happy to see an American win, Edberg was my fav for a while on tour because I always wanted to serve and volley like he could.
     
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  27. alexandercochrane

    alexandercochrane New User

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    I know this thread's been up awhile, but just thought I'd chime in. Personally speaking, I play with the old RDX-500 and think it's a superior racquet to the newer models. Better feel, power, more forgiving.
     
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  28. DY3K1D

    DY3K1D Rookie

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    since some of the rackets are outdated how do players like hewitt keep getting the discontinued ones?
     
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  29. leonidas1982

    leonidas1982 Hall of Fame

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    I believe they are discontinued for mass production or the players buy the molds and have their new sponsors manufacture them.
     
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  30. Leelord337

    Leelord337 Hall of Fame

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    #80
  31. Hatari!

    Hatari! Rookie

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    Behind you, crouched and ready to attack.
    Papasito's comments have got me thinking. As an adult he laments new technology and innovations, wanting to go back to the best racquet he's ever used. Will juniors, 20 years from now, be talking about how great that Microgel Prestige or nblade was, and how they miss it? Once you find something you really like, it's impossible for you to let go (my last Prestige Classic 600 cracked last week :( but I've found a suitable replacement in the Prince Diablo).
     
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  32. Anton

    Anton Hall of Fame

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    You should really try Redodndo Mid
     
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  33. Hatari!

    Hatari! Rookie

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    That racquet is a noodle.
     
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  34. Anton

    Anton Hall of Fame

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    did u try it? Never heard anyone say THAT about Redondo.
     
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  35. carlos djackal

    carlos djackal Professional

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    cool and very nice story, thanks for posting this one...
     
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  36. Ross K

    Ross K Legend

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    I thought it was conclusively proven that ARod was actually one of the few who played with a relatively light frame (as in below 120z)? Also, isn't it almost certainly an actual PDR+? Or failing that, a PD+?
     
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  37. srl

    srl New User

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    Without wishing to sound rude I am never ceased by people not realising this. Imagine if you will a boy from Switzerland who has great talent and uses the stick of his idol,a model that has been around fora long time and was even used by Chris Evert. He plays his idol who has as many grand slams than anyone in history and beats him, he knows he will develop mentally, his game will become stronger as will his body. He goes on to defeat all the best players in the world. Why on earth would he think perhaps I need a new and unfamiliar stick to give me power I don't need (it is all about control and consistency at that level which comes primarily from movement). Why when you hold the recrord for the fastest serve would you need a new racquet that serves better?? The public are being sold a product and the hook is buy this and you will play better or even like them, never mind the talent they have or the hours of work to attain it. It's funny how the Maxply or Pro Staff reigned for decades but graphite has to change annually or it's no good!
     
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  38. RFRF

    RFRF Semi-Pro

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    this is because the materials they used back then were of high grade and qaulity control was very strict, just hit with a prestige LM or MG then hit with a prestige classic and feel the differance, Today its all chinese junk why do you think no atp players use what we can get off the shelf??? unfortunatley the tennis raquet business is declining in time instead of advancing like Televisions and computers. Nano, k factor,03 Aero gel, microgel, liquid metal is all a joke constructed together with rubbish just to get your money! If you doubt me try a head prestige classic, wilson pro staff 85, prince original graphite, yamaha secret etc. next time your at a raquet store have a few hits with the Nadal aero babolat and you will see that there is no way in hell nadal would actually be using it, nice try Babolat!
     
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  39. purple-n-gold

    purple-n-gold Professional

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    Just checking into this thread and agree with the last post that some of the old raqs do hit and feel pretty nice,but after playing w/ the newer models they just seem better. But going back to the '05 posts has anyone tried adding weight to the top of the handle?
     
    #89
  40. akybo

    akybo Rookie

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    Future pros will play with the racquets that are sold today so I dont understand this urge for older racquets.
    Keep in mind that the actual pros played with racquets of their time,not a 10 years discontinued racquet.
     
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  41. Hedges

    Hedges Guest

    Back in the 70s, the pros didn't use the wood rackets we could buy off the shelf either. Their rackets were custom made then too.
     
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  42. BergTennis03

    BergTennis03 Guest

    K Six One 95

    weight 11.7 oz unstrung 12 pts HL

    how would you recommend going about customizing this racquet?

    i like your idea here, as i know these are good racquets, but are just too headlight and unstable at stock specs. e-mail me or i'd be willing to let you customize one if you quote me a price. e-mail me at rinebizzle@yahoo.com
     
    #92
  43. Petekbladetour1

    Petekbladetour1 Semi-Pro

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    Yeah right:roll:

    If this was true, then why havent you won the us open?
     
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  44. Petekbladetour1

    Petekbladetour1 Semi-Pro

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    Hey no one has been posting here since the 24th!
     
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  45. Petekbladetour1

    Petekbladetour1 Semi-Pro

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    Hey no one has been posting here since the 2nd november(of who would be me:wink:.
     
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  46. zebra_cam

    zebra_cam New User

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    I don't see the problem with what the pros are doing. Everyone reads the specs before they buy the racket, so people should be able to see of the racket is for them from there. Also everyone knows just becuase they bought the racket Federer is using doesn't mean that you're gonna start playing like him. So if pros want to use their older models let them.
     
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  47. plasma

    plasma Banned

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    it seems that the quality of players racks from the top companies (wilson, head) goes down continually. This is why top players prefer older models which were less mass produced.
     
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  48. mrmo1115

    mrmo1115 Hall of Fame

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    Was this shown on ESPN? If so, will there ever be any re-runs soon? Or was this just a news article?
     
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  49. West Coast Ace

    West Coast Ace G.O.A.T.

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    Are you sure about this? Everyone reads labels? WTF? This practice goes bad when they make blantantly false claims - e.g. the one about Hewitt winning more trophies with a racket he didn't use. That's indefensible misrepresentation.

    That's not true. I assume you don't have an engineering degree. The advancements in power and vibration reduction are impressive. The pros don't switch often because it's their livelihood at risk. So much of the game is mental - any little thing can tip the proverbial cart. Borg was noted for staying in the same room of the same hotel, eating the same dinner, etc... during his Wimby run. I'm sure most players are very habitual.

    I think it was just an Internet article. But you bring up an interesting point: if someone showed up with a camera, would the pros, stringers, and company reps talk to them. One thing to give a quote to a website you can say was taken out of context (if it wasn't audio taped) - another to deny something that is on video for all to see...
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2009
    #99
  50. jessey

    jessey Rookie

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    10 years from now the world no. 1 may very well be using a k blade, or microgel prestige or aeropro drive with cortex but painted to look like something else. That's an interesting thought.

    Whether the older racquets are better in quality in comparison to the "toys" made today I don't know, but the future no. 1s will have started their career using these "toys" and kept their preferences just like the players now had started their career with those older frames.

    Now wouldn't that cause A LOT of grief for many posters here :)
     

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