Paleo Diet Experiences?

Discussion in 'Health & Fitness' started by Fuji, May 10, 2012.

  1. r2473

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    Last edited: Jul 16, 2012
  2. Avles

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    Not sure who those "experts" are, but if low-carb isn't trendy it's likely because it's not really new anymore. Trends require novelty, and lowering carb intake is now part of the landscape-- the Zone diet is almost 20 years old now.

    I basically see the low-carb idea as a reaction to the "carbs good, fat bad" dogma of the 80s and 90s. Fad diets will come and go, but I do think there has been a larger shift in the way (some) people think about macronutrients.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2012
  3. OTMPut

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    I think there is a lot more awareness about simple and processed carbs. A lot more guys in the office on low carb diets (and losing tons of weight as well).

    May be vegetarianism is falling off the wagon.
     
  4. snoopy

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    I agree. When going out to eat with friends or at family functions, I overhear a lot more people talking negatively about bread and rice in away you wouldn't have not too long ago. Things like, "Oh I really shouldn't have bread with this, it makes me fat."
     
  5. Fee

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    bread doesn't make you fat, bad bread with corn syrup makes you fat. Unfortunately, that is most bread in America unless you make it yourself.
     
  6. beernutz

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    Right because the most important thing when choosing a diet is to look for one which is trendy or "in".
     
  7. Povl Carstensen

    Povl Carstensen Legend

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    Back from vacation in Finland. In "Vasabladet" 26/7 theres an article about the Turkish governments fight against overweight in the population. Minister of health Recep Akdag says:
    "People must avoid food that contains too much grain or sugar. They must avoid eating if they are not hungry, and stop when they are full. Besides, everybody should walk at least 30 minutes pr day."
    To me its an indication that the topics covered in this thread (role of sugar/carbs in weight loss and maintenance) are becomming mainstream knowledge. Akdag himself lost 10 kgs last year.
     
  8. Soul

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    There was an interesting paleo study released the other day. It found that eating healthy is more important to weight loss than exercise is.

    "New study: Obesity is Not Caused by Lack of Exercise"

    http://www.dietdoctor.com/new-study...udy-obesity-is-not-caused-by-lack-of-exercise

    snippet from Dr. Eenfeldt's article:

     
  9. OTMPut

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    it takes a bit of time for ideas challenging mainstream thinking to get publication space. this is especially true for academia, where the level of politics could be surprising.
     
  10. snoopy

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    . . . . . . . . .

    Soul beat me to it

    . . . . . . .
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2012
  11. sureshs

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    I have observed many older people who are not obese, simply by moderate eating and taking a walk and using the stairs.

    Exercise is over-rated. Eating too much after exercise will not cut down weight. Running can lead to worn out knees. Sports can lead to injuries.

    I read an article recently contradicting the modern theory of exercise. According to the article, the modern idea is to increase metabolism through exercise. But this leads to more cell division, and there is a finite number of times a cell can divide before it dies, due to telomere shortening. I don't know if these things are true, but according to the article, yoga-based exercise is superior to the kind of exercise that is advocated today.
     
  12. snoopy

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  13. sureshs

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  14. Bobby Jr

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    I read somewhere recently that studies show running has basically no negative effect on the cartilage or longevity of knees for the average person - in fact the opposite is generally the case. Degradation in those areas happens more because a person is prone to it or had other injuries which affect the knee.

    A related item on runners knee/arthritis. > link
     
  15. r2473

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    BIG FAT LIES

    http://www.cspinet.org/nah/11_02/bigfatlies.pdf

    http://friedmansprout.com/2011/05/01/taking-gary-taubes’s-sugar-theory-with-a-grain-of-salt/

    While it is important to be skeptical consumers of health information and to be open to new ways of looking at the multi-faceted condition of obesity, we must do so with a solid grounding in science. Mr. Taubes, a compelling and well-researched journalist, makes a strong case for refuting what the public health community has held to be true for decades. Some of his postulates certainly hold water; for some, reducing carbohydrates in the diet may spur weight loss. For some, increasing protein and fat in the diet will not lead to weight gain or have negative health implications. And for others, exercise may not be a major factor in preventing weight gain over time.

    But overall, decades of research using modern and precise measurements from highly trained scientists tells us that the best ways to maintain optimal health and weight is to eat a balanced diet, one containing fiber-rich carbohydrates, vegetables, fruits, legumes, low-fat dairy and lean meats and to exercise moderately to vigorously each day, as the Dietary Guidelines for Americans recommend. Keep in mind that no diet works well for everyone as the human body is comprised of complex systems, influenced by personal preferences and behaviors in addition to genetics. Nutrition is a relatively new science that is dynamic, as all sciences are, and constantly re-evaluating and testing its postulates.

    Mr. Taubes also seems to overlook some of the similarity in his message and that of the health community. For example, no registered dietician that I have come across is advocating for people to consume carbohydrates in the form of sodas, desserts, refined grains, or excess snack foods. Aren’t we all on the same team here?
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2012
  16. Bartelby

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    But overall, decades of research using modern and precise measurements from highly trained scientists tells us that the best ways to maintain optimal health and weight is to eat a balanced diet,

    one containing fiber-rich carbohydrates,

    - yes, but the recommended amount of carbs is now seen as too high

    vegetables, fruits, legumes,

    - yes

    low-fat dairy and lean meats

    -no, this seems now to be unnecessary and full cream dairy is advised by some

    and to exercise moderately to vigorously each day, as the Dietary Guidelines for Americans recommend.

    -yes, but the amount recommended varies according to the vigour and the degree of vigour now tends towards high

    Keep in mind that no diet works well for everyone as the human body is comprised of complex systems, influenced by personal preferences and behaviors in addition to genetics.

    - yes, this means also that most people don't notice when they're deviating from a diet

    Nutrition is a relatively new science that is dynamic, as all sciences are, and constantly re-evaluating and testing its postulates.

    -yes, but its also sponsored by vested interests which have, for example, promoted carbs because the grain industry gets government subsidies in the US
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2012
  17. kevin-af

    kevin-af New User

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    Since this topic never gets old, I thought I'd share this tool that my crew has put together...

    Keeping you Glycemic Load (GL) low is a strategy very close to Paleo. However, since all carbs are not digested equally, it is often a bit of a pain to figure out the "perfect dose" for our snacks. We gathered GL data of 60+ different foods and provided latest data ranges for Low/Med/High Loads. Please let me know what you think, I'd really like to make the tool better.

    http://aceformula/GL
     
  18. GuyClinch

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    It's well known that there is no link between weight loss and exercise. Its been known for many years now..This is not new stuff.

    Its not even related to cell division. The problem is your body is an efficent machine. If you exercise your body adjusts its caloric needs to compensate for the exercise and you eat more.

    Even if you 'starve' yourself and try to eat the same amount - sooner or later you 'give in' and eat your way through your caloric deficit. This is why 'calorie restriction' doesn't work in the long term and why most of the biggest loser contests just gain it all back..

    It's common sense really - and something our forefathers were well aware of. This is why people years ago had such a dim view of exercise. Its very possible to very active and incredibly fat - it was in fact common because all poor people could afford was cheap carbs..

    The reverse is true too. You can be a lazy ******* and skinny as a rail. Of course if people want to believing that thin people have some higher level of effort and virtue and that's why they are skinny I suppose I shouldn't really talk people out of it..

    This is the common mantra that thin people are worthy of praise and fat people are worthy of scorn. it benefits me - and probably alot of people on this forum but the evidence that its bull is pretty strong..
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2013
  19. Posture Guy

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    I was somewhat paleo, but not hard core about it. I had an accident in 2012 that tore my right shoulder up and required two surgeries. My weight ballooned to 190 and my waist to 36". I couldn't exercise in a meaningful way from July of 2012 to about March of 2013. It was a very frustrating time. When I was able to start running again and get back on the court, I figured everything would go back to 'normal'.

    Nope. Virtually no change. I was REALLY frustrated now.

    What I realized was my body had become "sugar-adapted". I was burning sugars for fuel so I was always hungry, doing the "eat 5-7 small meals a day" thing, etc...

    I went to basically a paleo 2.0 type of approach utilizing a lot of Dave Asprey's advice. Started doing bulletproof coffee, cut back on all but a small amount of fruits, completely eliminated grains, ensured ALL beef I ate was grassfed, any poultry free range and organic, upped my egg intake (was eating virtually none), and on that protocol the results were shocking. I started losing about half a pound a day before I settled back into a zone. Went from 190 to 176, 36" waist to 33", in roughly a month and it's staying there pretty effortlessly.

    For me the key was going from burning sugars as my primary fuel source to burning fats. Once I did that, my body pretty gracefully just started burning fat stores for fuel. Before, 2-3 hours after eating I would NEED to eat again. Now, I have a cup of bulletproof coffee around 5:30am, a smoothie at 8am, then I'll usually have lunch around 1pm, give or take, and I'm usually not even hungry at lunch. I just eat because I know with a full afternoon of clients I won't be able to eat again until 5-6pm.

    Energy levels are great, adrenal and immune function is stronger, sleep quality is improved. I'm a happy guy.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2013
  20. comeback

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    That's great PD, congratulations. I have my other personal thread on Paleo and had many comments on how i was putting my health in jepardy. How does losing 25 lbs, feeling better, improving every aspect of my life hurting me in any way. Reading about low testosterone led me to Paleo and I couldn't deal with the constant hunger anymore. Almost 10 months now, i'm never looking back. To me it comes down to sugar and grains. Many people cannot fathom their lives without grains, breads, muffins, even legumes (I couldn't) . But the evidence is mounting that grains are just another form of sugar. For me it took some work to find substitutes in almond and coconut flour, but it is well worth it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2013
  21. Posture Guy

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    comeback....yep. A lot of folks equate going grain-free with going carb-free. Not the same thing. I just don't eat carbs I view as either toxic or having a negative overall impact on my health and body composition.

    I'll eat plenty of greens, vegetables, low glycemic fruits, sweet potatoes, some rice, etc...

    Have seen significant health improvements, including blood work. I've had some immune dysfunction issues for a long time, those are definitely improving.
     
  22. comeback

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    I also view sugar and grains as toxic. The word that comes into my head now is "poison" ..i know that is a little extreme but that's what works for me. I know we'll see some posts about "everything in moderation" but i don't buy it..I wouldn't take poison in moderation.
     
  23. r2473

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    It never does
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2013
  24. r2473

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    I bet I could find plenty of cases that contradict this theory. Same as you could find plenty of cases that prove your point. Trying to find a "one size fits all" theory is pretty much always and exercise in futility (never resulting in weight loss).

    1) It's very possible to exercise a great deal and not lose any weight. In fact, this is probably the most common. And its just as you say, when we exercise, we naturally want to refuel. I used to run 50+ miles a week at very high intensity. The last thing in the world I wanted to do was lose weight. I needed to eat everything in sight just to have the energy to recover so I could "do it all over again" the next day. Losing weight was never my intention. Performance was my intention, and refueling was critical to the process. But with that said, I didn't gain weight either. For nearly 10 years I stayed the same weight almost to the pound.

    2) I've also used exercise to lose weight. Here my focus was very different, so I balanced exercise and refueling quite differently. It's a tricky process and not a fun one. Obviously it depends on not eating as much as you'd like (fully refueling), so the "hard liner" that espouses no link between exercise and weight loss will simply point out that it depends on not eating as much (diet), not on exercise. Which is really silly.

    3) I've used exercise to maintain my weight for years. This is where exercise really shines IMO. When I'm exercising daily or near daily, I don't need to be too concerned at all what I eat. I burn whatever I eat for fuel so fast that it really doesn't matter. And this lets me enjoy lots of "bad" foods in pretty generous quantities with no ill effects. And I know I'm going to hear about construction workers and laborers that work hard all day everyday and are fat, thus proving that exercise makes you fat by encouraging you to eat more. Again, no one size fits all theory. Exercise isn't a silver bullet. Nothing is a silver bullet. If you eat too much, you can expect to gain weight, exercise or no exercise.

    4) On an individual level, a lot is going to depend on how your body functions and reacts (genetics if you will). Large studies can give you clues to cause/effect relationships, but it really comes down to how things work for you. Period. I get the feeling that many people don't see the positive effects from exercise I do, to which all I can say is, I'm sorry for you. I get the feeling that many people so much as look at a "grain" and they gain 20 lbs and nearly die from the experience. All I can say is, I'm sorry for you.

    As a nation (USA) and as a population (worldwide), we have been getting increasingly fatter since about the early 80's. I don't think you will be able to find too much data suggesting that this is due to an "exercise epidemic".

    You'll probably also note that we consumed a high percentage of carbohydrates in our diets pre 1980 and that the percentage really hasn't changed much. But we are consuming more calorie dense foods, and this is increasing our overall calorie intake. If you really think long and hard about it, carbs in the form of sugar and grains are not a new invention. I'm pretty sure both existed pre-1980. I think we were simply more moderate in our intake in the past and were more active. Not that we ran more marathons. We just played more and walked more. We weren't more active in a health club sort of way, we just lived more active lifestyles in our daily routines. So we burned a few (hundred) more calories daily. Yes, this is exercise. And probably helps control weight. And probably doesn't promote ravenous refueling tendencies either. Balanced. Moderate. No crazy extremes of demonizing certain macronutrients in favor of others.

    No, not extreme at all. And I highly recommend hemlock, but only in moderation.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2013
  25. comeback

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    I get the feeling that many people don't see the positive effects from exercise I do, to which all I can say is, I'm sorry for you.
    I don't see many people who don't see the benefit of exercise.

    I get the feeling that many people so much as look at a "grain" and they gain 20 lbs and nearly die from the experience. All I can say is, I'm sorry for you.
    If you are referring to me, please don't feel sorry for me, i'm doing great. Many others report great results after eliminating processed sugar and processed grains.
    http://www.amazon.com/Wheat-Belly-L...543/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?showViewpoints=1

    As a nation (USA) and as a population (worldwide), we have been getting increasingly fatter since about the early 80's. I don't think you will be able to find too much data suggesting that this is due to an "exercise epidemic".
    It's the Yo Yo effect of gaining, losing, exercising that is not good.

    You'll probably also note that we consumed a high percentage of carbohydrates in our diets pre 1980 and that the percentage really hasn't changed much.

    High Fructose corn syrup and highly processed grains magnify these two foods to dangerous levels in the last 30-50 years

    But we are consuming more calorie dense foods, and this is increasing our overall calorie intake.
    Agree. Simply more access to food , fast food, restaurants which has infiltrated this generation of children

    If you really think long and hard about it, carbs in the form of sugar and grains are not a new invention. I'm pretty sure both existed pre-1980.
    Again High Fructose corn syrup and highly processed grains magnify these two foods to dangerous levels in the last 30-50 years

    I think we were simply more moderate in our intake in the past and were more active. Not that we ran more marathons. We just played more and walked more. We weren't more active in a health club sort of way, we just lived more active lifestyles in our daily routines. So we burned a few (hundred) more calories daily. Yes, this is exercise. And probably helps control weight. And probably doesn't promote ravenous refueling tendencies either.
    Agreed, too bad the US is one of the fattest nations, #33in the World in life expectancy. It is a disgrace with the medical advancement we have here..One can only point to food as it's main culprit and the government that has let our food be infiltrated with processed junk.
    http://articles.mercola.com/sites/a...gn=20131119Z1&et_cid=DM33847&et_rid=342207557

    Balanced. Moderate. No crazy extremes of demonizing certain macronutrients in favor of others. [/B]
    For me the paleo blueprint of eliminating processed sugar and processed grains is not at all extreme. There are no micronutrients in sugar and grains that cannot easily be obtained elsewhere.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2013
  26. r2473

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    I think we are all in agreement
     
  27. Povl Carstensen

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    So actually paleo is mainstream, and not an extreme fad.
     
  28. dominikk1985

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    I agree that people eat to many processed sugars and baked goods.

    However I think that this paleo diet thing is too extreme. just avoid eating big amounts of baked stuff (donuts, hamburgers, croissants...) and sugar (soft drinks, sweets) and you will be a lot healthier.

    I travel a lot in my job and a big danger is eating baked goods out of boredom rather than hunger. When I am at a train station or airport I can conveniently get a ton of baked stuff like hamburgers or donuts and might just eat them out of boredom.

    add a coke and some french fries to that and you have eaten your daily calorie need in 10 minutes.

    eating out of boredom/for pleasure is really one of the main reasons for getting fat. you are not really hungry but "feel like" having a coke or a burger.

    sometimes that is fine but not every day.
     
  29. Posture Guy

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    My issue with grains has nothing to do with weight control (though I think consuming them leads the body to want to burn sugars instead of fat for fuel, which then makes fat loss harder).

    My issue is that there is a growing mound of researching showing that they are simply bad for us. The anti nutrients are bad by themselves, then can become cross reactive with things like sugars, trans fats, molds, mycotoxins, to create a number of inflammatory responses in the body. Grain consumption is being increasingly correlated, for example, with a number of auto immune issues.

    Why am I now gluten free? One big reason is when I now 'indulge' and eat gluten, I feel like crap for about 3 days. I used to be fine with it, but what was happening I was always feeling and performing at a suboptimal level. When I cleaned that stuff out of my system, I feel and perform MUCH better. Reintroduce it and I get a clear signal that this is not a healthful food for me, and I believe it's getting easier by the month to make the argument it's not just a healthful food for anyone.
     
  30. Hominator

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    My experience mirrors yours, though in a different way. Last year I switched my one hour cardio workouts from evening to morning, before breakfast. Didn't really change anything else. Over the course of 4 months, I dropped about 30 pounds. I think a lot of that was due to exercising in a fasted state. It would make sense that my body was using more fat for fuel rather than carbs. Workouts certainly felt more difficult, especially after the 40-minute mark, which is when I assumed my body was relying more on fat than carbs since my understanding is that the body uses fat for fuel less efficiently than carbs.

    I'm not sure whether this was supposed to work, but it worked for me. I can see how limiting your sugar consumption throughout the day would promote your body to rely more on fat rather than carbs (sugar).

    By the way, what's bulletproof coffee? Sounds intriguing.
     
  31. Posture Guy

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    Bulletproof coffee is very interesting stuff. You can read more about it here:

    http://www.bulletproofexec.com/how-to-make-your-coffee-bulletproof-and-your-morning-too/

    A friend turned me onto a podcast Dave Asprey did with Joe Rogan back in May, definitely worth a listen. It's podcast #361 at The Joe Rogan Experience, 5/26/13. Decided to try it after listening, glad I did.

    The short of it is, it's low-toxin coffee combined with grassfed butter and MCT oil. The idea is that a lot of coffee beans are contaminated with molds and mycotoxins. It's a common problem with things like grains, corn, beans, coffee, etc... Either you get the problem during growing, or then during processing, or then during storing. And these contaminants can have impacts on your health ranging from minor to severe. I found, for example, that when I drink regular coffee I kind of get a bit of an energy rush, an hour later I get a reasonably urgent urge to urinate, then a few hours later I get an energy lull. According to Dave, those effects are FAR more driven by the toxins in the coffee and the body's processing to eliminate them quickly than it is the actual caffeine. And when I switched to his beans, I don't get any of that. For example, I was stuck on skype with 3 back to back clients yesterday from 10am to 3pm. During that 5 hour span I drank about 14 ounces of bulletproof coffee and about a quart of water, and when I was done my energy level was pretty good and I felt a mild need to urinate, but could've easily gone longer.

    The butter and mct oil give you short and medium chain fats to help fuel immune and brain function. I've noticed my cognitive function is definitely improved on this stuff compared to normal coffee, and I've had several clients start using it who tell me the exact same thing.

    And it helped me lose a bunch of body fat.

    I researched as well as I reasonably could the ideas behind this and found they have merit. I'm definitely a fan.
     
  32. beernutz

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    I drink regular coffee (Maxwell house made with a Tassimo pod brewer) with heavy whipping cream and some Nutiva Organic Extra Virgin Coconut Oil mixed in almost every morning. The coconut oil is primarily to up the fat content but also for the MCTs, while the HWC is just for the fat it provides.

    I have definitely noticed improved cognitive ability and better memory since I started doing this a couple of years ago. You do have to watch out with the coconut oil as too much can run right through you so to speak.

    There is a body of new research that supports the relationship between MCTs and brain functioning and some evidence that they actually can help repair damage for dementia or Alzheimer's patients. Here are a couple of popular press articles discussing the research being done:

    http://www.ctvnews.ca/health/health...ut-oil-on-patients-with-alzheimer-s-1.1491406

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...Families-whove-given-loved-ones-swear-it.html
     
  33. Hominator

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    Thanks. Sounds interesting.
     
  34. r2473

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    I agree, this is a great place to start. If this isn't enough to achieve your nutrition/health goals, you can always add more complexity later.

    Sort of the Ockham's Razor of nutrition.
     
  35. Posture Guy

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    beernutz.....i'd suggest an experiment. Try Dave's coffee beans and I'm guessing you'll see an even more positive effect.

    Honestly, I thought the info about his beans versus regular beans was just marketing hype but I decided to try his 'recipe' exactly as prescribed. We ran out of the beans and went back to a quality roast from Peet's. Holy crap. I was drinking that stuff every day and when I went back to it I felt a definite downturn physically and mentally.

    The idea there is that if the coffee you drink has mold or mycotoxins, you're drinking some stuff that has a seriously negative impact on your brain and body. Europe tests for SOME of this stuff, the US tests for none of it. So if a producer has a batch that fails European test standards, guess where it goes for sale? America.

    When I drink 'regular' coffee now after getting that stuff out of my system and getting acclimated to Dave's beans, I get far more wildly fluctuating energy levels, decreased cognitive performance, and significantly increased urination frequency, all signs of mold contamination.

    Higher end coffees have a better chance of being 'clean' as sourcing matters more. And if it's wet processed, the odds of it being clean improve even more. The standard stuff sold at the grocery store is almost certainly contaminated.
     
  36. Posture Guy

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    this theory also explains why study after study shows that obesity is inversely correlated with income. Poor people tend to be the fattest. Why? They have to buy the cheap stuff, and the cheap stuff is FAR more likely to be contaminated with toxins, whether you're talking breads, grains, meats, dairy, produce, etc.... And that contamination creates significant inflammation in the body.
     
  37. comeback

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    Agree, but in many cases the "cheap stuff" eventually cause bigger hunger hence: eating more. There is a fallacy that "Paleo" is expensive. But in the long run it's not. (especially the LONG LONG run of possible medical costs).
     
  38. Posture Guy

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    comeback....i completely agree.
     

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