Pat Cash : Are Rafael Nadal Nadal and Novak Djokovic boring?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by tennissportsrog, Sep 15, 2013.

  1. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    I think you mean Nadal fan vs Fed fan :mrgreen:
     
    #51
  2. fatichar

    fatichar Rookie

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    Interesting and boring is a matter of taste. Classical is boring to some and life to others. Why should anyone expect others to have the same taste as his?
     
    #52
  3. Mick

    Mick Legend

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    Maybe Pat Cash thinks watching his matches in the senior tour is more exciting that watching Nadal play Djokovic :)
     
    #53
  4. tennissportsrog

    tennissportsrog Rookie

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    Too fantastic.

    Nadal is boring and balding.
     
    #54
  5. Top Jimmy

    Top Jimmy Semi-Pro

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    Wow, you use that BS thread as evidence now? It's full of your supposition. Get back to us when you have radar gun speeds before and after.
     
    #55
  6. Chico

    Chico Banned

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    Agree. Supposed courts slowdown is a myth.

    BTW didn't know that Agassi and Nadal played in Mexico and Agassi won?
     
    #56
  7. granddog29

    granddog29 Banned

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    Which is why in the 2006, 2007 and 2008 Wimbledon finals he hit more groundstroke winners than Federer did, why in the French open semis he was way ahead of Djokovic in winners for most of the match, and why at the U.S Open he was either of all his opponents in winners until the final.
     
    #57
  8. fatichar

    fatichar Rookie

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    Coz it didn't happen :D
     
    #58
  9. tennissportsrog

    tennissportsrog Rookie

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    ****** said again. Now is the best era.
     
    #59
  10. Chico

    Chico Banned

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    I was joking.

    Anyway this match today was not boring at all. It was a great enjoyment for all tennis fans.
    Novak at his best dismantling inferior Nadal. Not boring at all indeed. Cash is wrong.
     
    #60
  11. bullfan

    bullfan Legend

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    Just like Nadal dismantled an inferior Novak at USOpen GS 2013!
     
    #61
  12. Chico

    Chico Banned

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    The only dismantling in that match was in the 2nd and first part of 3rd set. The rest was UE fest by Novak and pushing by Nadal.
     
    #62
  13. Crose

    Crose Professional

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    Pat Cash is full of crap. That USO final was awesome to watch - aside from that breadstick in the final set and near breadstick in the first set.
     
    #63
  14. bullfan

    bullfan Legend

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    Whining and excuses when Novak loses. Your trolling knows no bounds either when Novak loses or wins. It's whining like a 2 year over losses and crowing when he wins.

    In my book, when Novak wins he deserves it, when Nadal wins he deserves it.
     
    #64
  15. Chico

    Chico Banned

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    First - please don't insult me.

    Second - I never said Nadal didn't deserve to win USO, he did, because Novak was playing bad and spraying UEs for half of the match, but that was no dismantling, sorry.

    The FO SF 2013 Nadal didn't deserve to win though and I will never admit he was, since I think what I say is true, but that is a different story.
     
    #65
  16. bullfan

    bullfan Legend

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    Actually, don't act like you are insulted. You conveniently use that whenever you don't agree with someone to play the victim.

    Oh, that was quite backhanded about the USOpen.

    Nadal should have demolished Novak in 3-4 at the most, but took his eye off the ball. He totally outplayed him. You can whine all you want, but Novak didn't come close to deserving to beat Nadal at FO SF 2013.
     
    #66
  17. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    hahahahha that is great

    They should play the wordl chess championships instead.
     
    #67
  18. Bobby Jr

    Bobby Jr Legend

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    There's a reason why players like Federer, Dolgopolov, Tsonga, Tomic, Santoro, McEnroe etc have been referred to as magicians and inspire awe from their best moments while Nadal, Lendl and Muster generally have not. The former group's approach to tennis endears itself to far more people in both skill and aesthetic terms, the later group primarily to hard-core tennis fans and coaches.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2013
    #68
  19. tennissportsrog

    tennissportsrog Rookie

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    ****** is ugly boring.
     
    #69
  20. tennissportsrog

    tennissportsrog Rookie

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    He is not criticizing. He is only disgusted.
     
    #70
  21. West Coast Ace

    West Coast Ace G.O.A.T.

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    Probably the bank accounts and private jets...
     
    #71
  22. Sabratha

    Sabratha G.O.A.T.

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    Cash often tries to talk down this era and overrate his own.
     
    #72
  23. Forehand Of Doom

    Forehand Of Doom Banned

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    [​IMG]
     
    #73
  24. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

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    Pat Cash : Are Rafael Nadal Nadal and Novak Djokovic boring?

    Djokovic certainly is not boring. So Cash is half-right :D :D
     
    #74
  25. Forehand Of Doom

    Forehand Of Doom Banned

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    And according to Chico that's still 50% more than Pascal Maria's overrule accuracy rate.
    <Insert Tipsa's photo of Sean Connery laughing with hat>
     
    #75
  26. winstonlim8

    winstonlim8 Semi-Pro

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    I don't blame the players. I blame the authorities who chased the mighty media dollar so badly that they turned tennis into an endurance contest, produced a whole generation of dingdongpingpong players and killed any chance for diversity in the game.

    I keep praying that enough people will start watching curling, lawn bowls and synchronised swimming whenever tennis is being televised that the media giants will finally start putting the screws on the authorities (don't get me started on what the acronyms ATF, ITF and WTF might stand for) to do something about making tennis entertaining again. For the first time ever since we started getting tennis on cable television in Malaysia, I chose reading a book over watching a Grand Salm final. I read War And Peace.

    Before we had GS on clay, grass and hardcourts that required variety and technique. Now we have GS played on various versions of artificial clay play improperly disguised as grass or cement play.

    Sorry about the rant but I always get a bit worked up when people blame the players for situations created by the greed of those in charge of administration.
     
    #76
  27. winstonlim8

    winstonlim8 Semi-Pro

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    And oh yeah, I blame the crazy idjits who keep making racquets, strings and balls to get greater power and faster shots, too. Their usual excuse is "to make tennis easier for beginners to learn."

    Well, tennis ISN'T easier to learn no matter what kind of bat you make. So get over it! The only thing they've achieved is to make pro tennis into a sort of high level pushing for the most part. Thank goodness Rafa and Nole are going to have to attack with more all-court games to shorten the points and prolong their careers sooner or later.

    The racquet makers are equally responsible for the kind of play we see today. Huge serves and endless dingdongpingpong. I suspect with their constant production of head heavy light racquets (so that newbies can just start batting the ball over the net quicker and easier) they're also responsible for a good many cases of tennis elbow. Some encouragement for picking up the game...

    On top of that, trying to make tennis easier to learn to make it more accessible is just as much humbug. They made tennis into an elitist sport where if you don't have the $$$ to buy the latest in technology racquets, hire a personal coach, buy new balls every session AND rent courts or join a club, you can't afford to play or learn the game or compete against kids whose parents can afford all of those.

    So let's not blame the players for being more or less athletic or being boring or whatever. Nole, Nadal and Roddick do a lot good work trying to bring tennis to kids in spite of the challenges imposed by the money masters.
     
    #77
  28. bigred1910

    bigred1910 Rookie

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    personally i find waiting 1-2 minutes between each serve somewhat boring not to mention the grunting that comes from nadal just a tad annoying.

    personally i would prefer to watch a dolgopolov vs anyone more entertaining.

    out of the current pros i do find the top 2 exceptionally boring. sure both are pretty damn skilled but skill doesnt always equal entertaining.

    i dislike nadal on court so much i for some reason "hate" watching him more than lendl. and his persona off court makes me feel like garbage for hating him on court but he is just not entertaining at all in the slightest.

    for the record im not a nadal fan im not a djoker fan and i would prefer watching others to fed. but out of the top novak, nadal and federer. fed is the only one i could watch all day and not get bored.
     
    #78
  29. MachiA.

    MachiA. Banned

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    The carpet was banned because of Fed, the homogenization was did because of Fed.

    There was a need for a new record holder in the eyes of the uneducated majority of public.

    With diversity and a strong field of tennis players this would have been impossible to achieve.

    KR
     
    #79
  30. Forehand Of Doom

    Forehand Of Doom Banned

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    Carpet was much more popular in the 1970s.

    [​IMG]
     
    #80
  31. reversef

    reversef Hall of Fame

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    Let's watch this instead:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wx5ExYInSo

    Mmmmh, so thrilling. :mad:
    That kind of tennis was very criticized and lead many people to watch men tennis only when it was played on clay or eventually on slow hard courts (AO, Miami). I'm one of those people. For us, the season used to finish with the French Open. After that, tennis was a women game.
    We were heard, I guess. To some extend, at least. I still lose a lot of interest as soon as I watch a few service games played at Wimbledon.
    Serve fests kill tennis more than anything else. It even happens on clay, but the faster the surface, the more disgusting.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2013
    #81
  32. Wim

    Wim Guest

    The Novak-Rafa matchup is boring.
    Not Federer Rafa.
     
    #82
  33. fezer

    fezer Rookie

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    sorry, but you took that one minute totally out of context. it was the 96 wtf sampras/becker. and this was just the first game. what followed was a 5 set thriller. ssampras and becker delivered one of the best matches ever played, with a huge variety. baseline rallies and winners as well as volleys, overheads, passing shots, dropvolleys - everything
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPsu-zL2Ah0

    i hope my link works, so you can get a better impression of what was going on there. the 4 aces of becker just started a great tennis match and people were thrilled from the beginning
     
    #83
  34. fezer

    fezer Rookie

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    sorry, but you took that one minute totally out of context. it was the 96 wtf sampras/becker. and this was just the first game. what followed was a 5 set thriller. ssampras and becker delivered one of the best matches ever played, with a huge variety. baseline rallies and winners as well as volleys, overheads, passing shots, dropvolleys - everything
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPsu-zL2Ah0

    i hope my link works, so you can get a better impression of what was going on there. the 4 aces of becker just started a great tennis match and people were thrilled from the beginning
    fezer is online now Report Post Reply With Quote
     
    #84
  35. reversef

    reversef Hall of Fame

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    Ah, those highlights are great, of course. Highlights are always great to watch. But as you can guess, I have no intention of watching a Sampras-Becker match played indoors (or on grass). It can be a great match for people who like that kind of tennis. The other ones are not going to watch. Not 4 aces in a row in every game? Well, I hope so.
    I could enjoy an Edberg on fast courts because he mostly used his serve to reach the net, not to get as many cheap points as possible. That's the kind of fast court tennis I would be happy to see.
     
    #85
  36. reversef

    reversef Hall of Fame

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    The Nadal-Djokovic matchup can be really thrilling. It can be boring sometimes. That's what you get when you have 2 walls in front of each other. One of the most beautiful things in tennis is the contrast in style, and that's what you get with a Federer-Nadal.
     
    #86
  37. rh310

    rh310 Professional

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    I remember that match, and I agree completely that it (1) was amazing at the time and (2) holds up well 15+ years later. Easy to forget how good Becker was. His footwork is totally modern. Both he and Sampras could play and win from anywhere on the court.
     
    #87
  38. rh310

    rh310 Professional

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    The people I know who don't follow tennis that much and watch Nadal all laugh at his ticks. They don't even get to the point where they can like watching him play.
     
    #88
  39. fezer

    fezer Rookie

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    no question that edberg was also (if not the most) fun to watch. that's why him, sampras and becker produced so many fantastic matches.
    believe me: the highlights in this video are not the only ones by far.
    and this final also shows another thing. 2 big serving guys very often produced close matches! only rarely u find results like 6-2, 6-3, 6-1. but look at some rg finals with two baseliners... borg/vilas, lendl/pernfors, courier/korda, muster/chang, moya/corretja, kuerten/bruguera, nadal/ferrer. those matches were decided before the start and thats what i call boring. nevertheless i respect ALL of these players! a sampras/ivanisevic match on faster courts could turn around in any tiebreak, edberg/becker matches offered suspense and class in 90% of all matches (10% becker dominated too much). the same with sampras/rafter or ivanisevic/rafter. even a three setter (krajicek/sampras 96wimb eg) was thrilling, because sampras could comeback anytime.
    of course u find thrilling baseline fights also (courier/agassi), but sometimes a big choke was necessary to create a classic (gaudio/coria).
     
    #89
  40. reversef

    reversef Hall of Fame

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    I agree that you rarely find completely lopsided matches between 2 great servers. But does that mean that they play equally well? Or simply that both of them serve too well to get broken?
    I started watching tennis during RG. I was a child, I had never played myself, I didn't even know the rules, but I found that great. A few weeks later, watching Wimbledon, I couldn't understand how Becker was allowed to hit so many aces in his first Wimbledon title. It seemed unfair to me. "It's part of the game" replied my father. Ok, but first impressions are tenacious. I never liked that. And I'm not the only one. In the 90's, even a fast surface player like Edberg criticized indoors conditions because the big servers were unplayable. I'm pretty sure that I still have the interview that I read in "Tennis Magazine" at that time, but unfortunately, I can't find it anymore. If I could put my hand on it, I would be very happy to post a scan. It's a french translation, but...

    Anyway, it's impossible to make everybody happy...
     
    #90
  41. NameNumber

    NameNumber New User

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    Net play is my favorite aspect of tennis. Approaches, volleys, and passes all make for the most exciting viewing, I think. So yeah, modern tennis is missing a lot of excitement. Even when the players do move forward, it's often a stupid move forward that makes the inevitable pass boring and predictable. So I absolutely agree that modern tennis is missing a lot of excitement that it used to have.

    That said, calling Nadal a boring player is something I just don't understand. His tenacity is amazing and his forehand is a completely unique and often explosive shot. While it it disappointing that surfaces that used to be fast have been slowed down so much, it's not the fault of Nadal or other modern grinders. Tennis casuals think that a rally's enjoyment is based on the number of shots played, so ITF, ATP, and WTA have given the viewers what they were asking for.

    I think coaches are the main problem, though. Players don't go to net any more because they're not comfortable with it because it's not a teaching priority. Nobody knows how to do it any more, and nobody cares.
     
    #91
  42. fezer

    fezer Rookie

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    and i started watching tennis in wimbledon. i found it fascinating how players like mcenroe did win the points. in rg found it was boring when wilander and chesnokov only tried not to lose the point. in wimbledon during the 90s it was still possible to win matches as a baseliner (agassi won, courier and washington finalist) but it was impossible to win rg after two days of rain...

    i am a tennis fan and played from time to time, but i play tabletennis regularly and on a relatively high amateur level. what fascinated me about tennis was the opportunity to rush the net and playing the ball VOLLEY (which is not allowed in tabletennis) or overhead. that extra dimension of the game is lost!
    and yes i am not happy about it! and i only rarely watch tennis.
    ps but i respect your view and you made good points.
     
    #92
  43. Steve0904

    Steve0904 G.O.A.T.

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    I would agree with you on the Federer Nadal score at any time before this year. The Federer-Nadal matchups now are utterly predictable. Nadal will hit to Federer's BH until it cracks (and it will), and now that Federer has really lost a step, the matches are not even close to competitive. Nadal-Djokovic can be boring, but it can be exciting too, and it is very competitive.
     
    #93
  44. rossi46

    rossi46 Professional

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    It's not just Nadal-Djokovic-Murray, all the match ups between these 3 are utterly boring.

    I am no fan of Roger Federer but once he retires, it's the final nail in the coffin, real tennis is dead. The other top players are purely athletes. And I am not talking about head to head records etc I couldn't care less that Nadal has a better H2H v Federer, I am referring to the entertainment factor, who really finds a 5 hour baseline match interesting ??

    If Del Potro is not smacking those cross court winners then he is also very boring, one dimensional, why wouldn't somebody that tall with a big serve not follow it into the net ??
     
    #94
  45. tennissportsrog

    tennissportsrog Rookie

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    Nadal is boring as hell.
     
    #95
  46. Wim

    Wim Guest

    Did you ever sit court side and watch him play?
    The crowd loves him. Wow factor fh, breathtaking stuff.
     
    #96
  47. winstonlim8

    winstonlim8 Semi-Pro

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    I don't think Nadal is boring - or was even when he hadn't quite developed the power to rip so many winners - and I don't blame the players.

    I blame those money-chasing mad men who didn't realise that the best tennis entertainment came from watching a great serve-volleyer against an equally great baseliner. Or two great all-court players going head to head. Such games were like cat and mouse chess matches played at high speed.

    Those of us lucky enough to have watched such matches will remember the thrill of wanting to find out whether the rapier-like thrusts of the volleyers would prevail against the laser accurate passing shots of the baseliners.

    Nowadays, they've slowed the courts down until most matches are a matter of dingdongpingpong dongdingpingping...oops! except when Nadal or Federer play. I think that's because they usually hit a higher number of winners and forcing shots than errors.

    For the first time since Slam finals were first televised regularly to Malaysia, I didn't bother to try extra hard to catch the Men's Finals. I learnt my lesson after a certain AO Final. I fell asleep after an hour, woke up, went out to buy dinner, came home, made coffee, had dinner and it was just the beginning of the 3rd set. I wrote an entire chapter of my book, made coffee, made sandwiches and more coffee for supper and they were finally beginning on the 5th set.

    I will never put myself through that kind of boredom again. Ever!

    PS
    I forgot to say I loved the FO Final however - mainly because of the fact that Nadal actually came in to volley and at one stage won 17 out of 19 points doing that. And I would have missed the FO Final, too, if I hadn't been suffering a bit of insomnia that night.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2013
    #97
  48. MauricioDias

    MauricioDias Rookie

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    Baseline games are boring for people that like the other eras games. Nadal is worse because he is a baseliner and he is boring as hell. Infinite points, infinite games, infinite sets.
     
    #98
  49. rh310

    rh310 Professional

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    On TV, what comes across is his ticks and the invariant monotony of his style of play.
     
    #99
  50. Omega_7000

    Omega_7000 Hall of Fame

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    The Federer-Nadal matches have the same old play patterns...High bouncing ball to Federer's single handed backhanded to draw an error or weak shot...

    With Novak the match is very balanced and neither has an advantage. Their matches come down to how the conditions are and who is in better shape on that day...
     

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