Pat Cash questions Federer quality

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by TheNatural, Jun 11, 2011.

  1. TheNatural

    TheNatural Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2005
    Messages:
    7,950
    Written last year but the points cash makes are still relevant. Interesting read.

    Pat Cash questions Federer quality

    When The Sunday Telegraph contacted the 44-year-old last week for his thoughts on the Australian Open, Cash was as honest and forthright as ever.

    He declared the legacy of Swiss legend and world No 1 Roger Federer won't be known until he has weathered the storm he is set to face over the next three years. It's almost blasphemy in the world of tennis to question Federer's greatness, but that didn't deter Cash.

    "The next couple of years is the only time he will have been challenged by more than one person," Cash said. "(Rafael) Nadal has a winning edge over him and he has it over him mentally, too.

    "I think (Juan Martin) del Potro and Andy Murray are really troubling him lately and I just hope we haven't seen Federer peak when there weren't any challenges."

    Pete Sampras, who saw Federer go past him at Wimbledon last year when he claimed his 15th Grand Slam title, was defined by his rivalry with Andre Agassi.

    Before that, it was Bjorn Borg, John McEnroe and Jimmy Connors. And in Cash's day, he battled the super Swedes, Mats Wilander and Stefan Edberg, and Ivan Lendl.

    For much of his career, Federer was playing against history - trying to chase down Sampras's 14 Grand Slams. Now that he has got there, the rivals are real - and they are coming to get him.

    "It doesn't really make it a fair indication of how good he really is if there hasn't been anyone really to challenge him," Cash said. "It will almost be a false impression of how good he really is.

    "But I think over the next few years we'll see how good he really is. You've got to look at who you play. You can't just put a man in a boys' tournament and say, 'Wow, how good is he?'

    "Because suddenly you drop another man in there and think, 'He's not as good as we thought he was'. And at the moment for me, that's what is still in question."

    THE BATTLE

    Federer has appeared in an unprecedented 21 Grand Slam finals and has reached the semi-finals or better of the past 22 major tournaments.

    It is a record streak that spans five years. He also holds the record of reaching 10 consecutive Grand Slam finals and has appeared in 17 of the past 18. And the world No 1 has won 16 ATP Masters Series tournaments, one less than Agassi's record.

    But, according to Cash, tennis fans should mark down the Australian Open of 2010 as the year the onslaught began. "Because it was a bit of a one-horse race, then a two-horse race for so long. But now I think this is a legitimate challenge there for Federer," Cash said.

    "Federer really was in a league of his own for a while, partially because he's so good. He brought a different aspect to the game, but a lot of players have become accustomed to his style now and they have worked him out. "It's going to be not so easy for him any more.

    "He's a sensational player and he'll continue to win big tournaments, for sure, but I don't see it as quite as freely. Nadal was injured last year, so you've got to say Federer had a bit of luck in the French Open.

    "Federer's amazing because he's so fit. He stays in incredible shape all the time. There's no doubt his shot-making is one of the greatest of all time, if not the greatest. But it's easy to make shots when you're not playing against anybody of your standard.

    "Now he's got other players of his standard, so, I think it will be a great challenge for him and hopefully he can stand up to it and stay fit as well."

    THE RIVALS

    In 2001, Cash lost a claycourt exhibition match to a then 15-year-old Nadal. He knows the Spaniard well and believes only a nagging knee injury robbed the world No 2 of solidifying the pressure on Federer.

    But it's Argentine giant Juan Martin del Potro who really excites Cash. The former Australian Davis Cup hero suggested the world No 4 has the high-powered game to bring down Federer, just like he did in last year's US Open final.

    "I think del Potro is a very, very good player. I heard he hurt himself this week so hopefully he'll be OK," Cash said. "I think he's a real superstar.

    "I think Andy Murray is a real superstar, also (Novak) Djokovic has a lot of potential as well. He's a real danger player. So there's a handful now."

    The new wave will get their crack at the master this week at the Australian Open. Last year, it was Nadal who brought down the Swiss maestro. This year, the world No 1 is facing an ambush.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2011
    #1
  2. nikdom

    nikdom Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2009
    Messages:
    4,725
    Location:
    Tennisville
    Pat Cash who?
     
    #2
  3. TheNatural

    TheNatural Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2005
    Messages:
    7,950
    Cash - The Wimbledon Champ.
     
    #3
  4. ledwix

    ledwix Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2010
    Messages:
    3,129
    Eh....so we'll only see how good he REALLY is in his 30-31 year old retirement year? Something tells me there is information about his level of play before this....
     
    #4
  5. flyinghippos101

    flyinghippos101 Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2009
    Messages:
    5,333
    This article is a year and a half old...

    Grasping straws eh?
     
    #5
  6. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2007
    Messages:
    31,170
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    Johnny Cash's brother :|
     
    #6
  7. Magnus

    Magnus Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    5,172
    Didn't Mr. Cash bash Nadal on quite a few occasions?
     
    #7
  8. TheNatural

    TheNatural Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2005
    Messages:
    7,950
    he is talking about the next 3 years there so what he says is relevant right now.Its a good time to asses what he wrote and see how Fed is travelling after a year and a half.
     
    #8
  9. cc0509

    cc0509 G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2010
    Messages:
    14,943
    Pat Cash is a one slam wonder who takes great pride it seems in bashing those who are better than he is. But, with that said, who cares what he really thinks about Federer or anybody else? He is allowed his opinion no matter how much others may not like it or disagree with it. It is not like it is a state of national emergency or something.
     
    #9
  10. nikdom

    nikdom Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2009
    Messages:
    4,725
    Location:
    Tennisville
    Brother or sister?

    Pat sounds like a girl's name.
     
    #10
  11. Roger No.1

    Roger No.1 Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2010
    Messages:
    145
    Location:
    Florida
    The reason guys like Hewitt, Roddick, Safin, Murray and Djokovic won so few (or none) Grand Slams was becasue Federer beat them. Was it not for Federer - these guys would have more titles and would be considered superstars.
    There's a lot more competition these days and any top 4 players would have beaten anybody in the 80's or 90's - the game has changed.
    Maybe Cash is trying to say he was unfortunate to play with so many great players and that's why he only won 1 Grand Slam.
     
    #11
  12. rafan

    rafan Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2006
    Messages:
    4,212
    Pat Cash changes like the wind. He is a very 'available' ex Wimbledon champion who tours around the place playing wherever he can. He was quite scathing about Rafa once so I never take him seriously
     
    #12
  13. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2007
    Messages:
    26,631
    Location:
    Weak era
    With all due respect I disagree with Pat Cash,of course his opinion does hold some weight given that he's a former Wimbledon champ but that doesn't mean everyone has to take it as a fact.As I see it everything player does from 29-30 to the rest of his career is sort of a bonus,a player legacy isn't defined in the twilight years of his career but rather during his peak years and Fed used the utmost of his talent,worked hard,scheduled well and achieved more than any other player in open era probably.

    Now I hope Fed gets a few more slams but that's because I'm a fan of his,not because I think Fed has to prove anything to Cash or anyone else out there.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2011
    #13
  14. jackson vile

    jackson vile Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2005
    Messages:
    9,827
    Federer could very well make that difference. He has been playing extremely well, he was just taken out by an on fire Tsonga.
     
    #14
  15. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2011
    Messages:
    12,686
    Pat Cash is an idiot. Federer has 16 slams in his pocket and this clown wants to question his quality? Get real.
     
    #15
  16. gregor.b

    gregor.b Professional

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2009
    Messages:
    1,204
    Location:
    Brisvegas
    I am an Aussie and even I think Pat Cash is an idiot.His Daddy finally let him off the leash,so he didn't really know what he was saying.
     
    #16
  17. Rippy

    Rippy Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2009
    Messages:
    3,709
    Location:
    England
    Lmao, so we only see how good he really is once he's 30 years old, and well past his prime?

    :lol:
     
    #17
  18. gpt

    gpt Professional

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2009
    Messages:
    880
    Ha Ha! Probably truer than funny :)
     
    #18
  19. Breaker

    Breaker Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2005
    Messages:
    7,735
    Almost worse than anything Cash said in the article. Maybe early 80s players would have difficulty due to racquet technology being so different but the top players of the 90s would still be great today.
     
    #19
  20. Тинана

    Тинана Banned

    Joined:
    May 24, 2011
    Messages:
    118
    Absolutely Agreeable.
     
    #20
  21. aprilfool

    aprilfool Guest

    Pat-lets bring back the time clock because Nadal and Novak waste too much time-Cash.
    I guess he wants to appear "fair and balanced".
     
    #21
  22. Bobby Jr

    Bobby Jr Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2010
    Messages:
    7,499
    Yeah... the article is over 18 months old so no wonder it's full of irrelevant points like Murray/Delpo having giving him trouble. The period since has shown Delpo to be a non-event and Federer has had the measure of Murray at the important junctures.

    Every player can attribute some percentage of their success to other's injuries. Record books don't care. Nor do they care if you were injured.

    Cash is a muppet. Been hanging out with too many hippies and smoking too much weed by the looks of it.
     
    #22
  23. SStrikerR

    SStrikerR Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2010
    Messages:
    2,052
    Location:
    Not Fantasy Land
    Considering Nadal beat him when he was in his mid teens, I would hope not.
     
    #23
  24. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2007
    Messages:
    4,073
    Location:
    NorCal Bay Area
    The irony of it is:

    Pat Cash had some success in his career, but won his last singles title when he was 25.

    And he is suggesting that Fed should be judged mostly based on his results in his late twenties?

    If we judged Cash by how he was doing in his late twenties, he'd be a total zero.
     
    #24
  25. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2007
    Messages:
    12,770
    Location:
    Bierlandt
    If we don't like the message, let's trash the messenger--

    Cash is an idiot.

    Federer is god.
     
    #25
  26. SStrikerR

    SStrikerR Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2010
    Messages:
    2,052
    Location:
    Not Fantasy Land
    No, it's the fact that he's a total hypocrite and is trying to cover his a** since Nadal beat him as a teenager.
     
    #26
  27. pame

    pame Professional

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2009
    Messages:
    1,441
    Seems that just because you don't like the almost universal respose to cash'< cooments, you trot out some overworked and tired broadside
     
    #27
  28. Rippy

    Rippy Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2009
    Messages:
    3,709
    Location:
    England
    Yes, when someone speaks a load of illogical rubbish, it is expected that they get insulted for doing so.

    Does that not seem reasonable to you?
     
    #28
  29. pame

    pame Professional

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2009
    Messages:
    1,441
    QFT and touche
     
    #29
  30. r2473

    r2473 Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    Messages:
    7,102
    I stopped reading right there.

    I don't want to know why guys like these players.
     
    #30
  31. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2009
    Messages:
    25,115
    Location:
    Cwmbran, Wales
    That exhibition match in May 2001 when a 14 year old Rafael Nadal beat Pat Cash wasn't supposed to happen. Cash was in Majorca to play against Boris Becker, but Becker couldn't play because of injury. The organisers wanted the crowd to see a match so they decided to give a 14 year old Nadal his chance against Cash. Nadal, at the time, was trying and failing to qualify for Satellite tournaments and having lost to Sergio Roitman in the qualifiers for the 2001 Mallorca ATP-Tour tournament. Nadal took his chance brilliantly against Cash, winning a close match.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2011
    #31
  32. Sid_Vicious

    Sid_Vicious G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2010
    Messages:
    11,680
    Location:
    In The City
    I think Pat Cash once criticized Mirka for trying to mess up Federer's career and Mirka actually responded by telling Cash to "Shut up".
     
    #32
  33. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2009
    Messages:
    25,115
    Location:
    Cwmbran, Wales
    #33
  34. Sid_Vicious

    Sid_Vicious G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2010
    Messages:
    11,680
    Location:
    In The City
    #34
  35. HEFFERNANdoug

    HEFFERNANdoug Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2011
    Messages:
    73
    Would be funny listening to Pat Cash talk about those statements now.
    [​IMG]
     
    #35
  36. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2008
    Messages:
    31,231
    Location:
    Somewhere under the weather ;)
    No disrespect to the great Cash, but its amazing how one persons injuries and illnesses are seen as an excuse, while another's are a reason for loss.

    It's like the Nadal fans here, who laugh at other players injuries/illnesses, but discredit anyone who beats Rafa since Rafa was clearly injured or tired or not himself (if you can't see that you are delusional and know nothing about tennis).
     
    #36
  37. rk_sports

    rk_sports Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2006
    Messages:
    1,627
    Location:
    soCal
    lost me right here ... lol

    "I think Andy Murray is a real superstar"
     
    #37
  38. norbac

    norbac Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2008
    Messages:
    8,583
    Have got to agree with Cash here, like it or not.
     
    #38
  39. SStrikerR

    SStrikerR Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2010
    Messages:
    2,052
    Location:
    Not Fantasy Land
    Yes, I know the story behind the match. But guess what? It doesn't matter if it wasn't supposed to happen, or how it happened. What matters is Nadal won.
     
    #39
  40. mandy01

    mandy01 G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2008
    Messages:
    11,518
    Yep. That was epic. That's probably the most I've ever heard from Mirka in the press after she started playing a greater role in Roger's life and it was well-deserved. I think it's a Swiss-thing to be so direct and I love it. :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2011
    #40
  41. Tshooter

    Tshooter Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2007
    Messages:
    2,225
    ",of course his opinion does hold some weight given that he's a former Wimbledon champ"

    Some weight. As in next to zero.

    David Foster Wallace once and forever destroyed the notion that top players simply by virtue of having been top players have any particular insight into the game. He seems about insightful as Tracy Austin:

    http://ijstrose.wetpaint.com/page/How+Tracy+Austin+Broke+My+Heart
     
    #41
  42. fps

    fps Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2007
    Messages:
    5,437
    Location:
    Brighton, England
    Oh yes Pat Cash, it's definitely all about who Fed plays and how well he does between the ages of 30 and 33. THAT will decide what people think of him as a player.
     
    #42
  43. FedExpress 333

    FedExpress 333 Professional

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2011
    Messages:
    1,182
    Location:
    New York
    Pat Cash is an idiot.
     
    #43
  44. pringles

    pringles Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2011
    Messages:
    460
    Isn't it the same Cash who said c. 2002 that Federer was never going to win Wimbledon?
     
    #44
  45. sbengte

    sbengte Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2010
    Messages:
    8,804
    OP, why don't you start a thread on Ralph calling the guy in your avatar boring and that what he played was not tennis ? I don't remember you ever commenting on it.
     
    #45
  46. TheTruth

    TheTruth G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2006
    Messages:
    13,671
    Pat does speak out of term, a lot. Many times it seems he's just trying to keep himself relevant as a one-time Wimbledon player. We usually don't hear much one slam wonders, so it's pretty sly on Cash's part.

    That being said, his points are true.

    Fed with his five year edge of experience and talent, at age 23was able to win against an inexperienced field. Nadal, Djokovic, Murray and del Potro were 18, 17, and 16 years old.

    His contemporaries Nalbandian, Hewitt, JCF, and Safin were MIA most of that time. Only Roddick remained and his talent level was light years away from Fed's.

    Now that the boys grew up the playing field is leveling out. It's true that Federer only had one challenger. How can you judge greatness based on that?

    And before you say I'm siding with Cash, the reality is that Cash is siding with me. I've been saying this for years.

    Don't trash me for having an opinion. A blind man has to admit this argument is valid.

    In response to the article, I agree.
     
    #46
  47. Talker

    Talker Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2007
    Messages:
    2,990
    Cash may have some points.

    Maybe he's just singling Federer out because of his records but we have Nadal also who has good records and has to come under the knife also.

    It's just an ERA argument and just another opinion. We've heard it all before.
     
    #47
  48. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2009
    Messages:
    25,115
    Location:
    Cwmbran, Wales
    Correct. Cash gave that analysis to Sue Barker on the BBC after Ancic beat Federer in straight sets in the first round of 2002 Wimbledon. Although, it has to be said that at the time, Federer seemed to be going backwards when it came to the majors, as he had lost in the first round of the 2002 French Open as well despite his excellent 2002 Hamburg win.

    I must admit that I never thought Federer would win a major myself. He just didn't seem to have the temperament needed.
     
    #48
  49. pringles

    pringles Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2011
    Messages:
    460
    Still he made a complete fool of himself. It's not to wise to predict that a then 20,21-year old player would NEVER do this or that. It's like saying nowadays that Raonic or Dimitrov won't EVER win a Slam. It's completely hypothetical and way too early to predict.
     
    #49
  50. Torres

    Torres Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2011
    Messages:
    4,766
    Pat Cash completely missis the point.

    Federer can only beat whichever players are in front of him. If there's nobody THAT good, that's not to say that he's not the greatest or one of the greatest.

    Silly for Cash to also suggest that the real test is in the next 3 years when Federer's going to be 31-33 and not everywhere close to his physical peak - the complete opposite situation to Djokovic.
     
    #50

Share This Page