Peak Serena Vs peak Graf

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by tank_job, Aug 7, 2012.

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Peak Serena Vs peak Graf

  1. Serena wins

    38 vote(s)
    39.2%
  2. Graf wins

    59 vote(s)
    60.8%
  1. tank_job

    tank_job Banned

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    Who wins - let's take HC as the surface as it splits grass and clay.
     
    #1
  2. 90's Clay

    90's Clay Legend

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    Graf beats Serena on every surface most of the time. Stefi was much too talented and crafty for Serena to handle
     
    #2
  3. cknobman

    cknobman Legend

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    Who wins - Peak Bruce Lee vs Peak Jet Li?
     
    #3
  4. Brian11785

    Brian11785 Hall of Fame

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    Peak Serena beats peak Graf.

    But Graf on an average day in her career beats Serena on an average day in her career.
     
    #4
  5. nadal2012uso2013ao

    nadal2012uso2013ao Banned

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    When was peak Serena?
     
    #5
  6. Mick

    Mick Legend

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    probably Graf would win but not all the time. Henin played kinda like Graf. She had a better topspin backhand but everything else not quite as good as Graf and most of Henin matches against Serena were pretty competitive.
     
    #6
  7. krz

    krz Professional

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    What? Bruce Lee everytime. Not even close. Wushu while nice to look at is hardly effective.

    :twisted:
     
    #7
  8. The-Champ

    The-Champ Legend

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    Henin was super aggressive. Graf is slice slice slice slice slice, until the opponent gets tired and misses.
     
    #8
  9. Mick

    Mick Legend

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    yeah but her slices were wicked. Graf could lose to Serena but it would be a competitive match, not a 0-6, 1-6 affair. She got the weapons to combat with Serena.
     
    #9
  10. t135

    t135 Semi-Pro

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    Serena would have pounded steffi easily. Steffi never faced anyone like Serena.
     
    #10
  11. Bjorn99

    Bjorn99 Professional

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    Serena hands down. Graf gonna chop her way to victory? Seles was better than Graf, much better, but she got conspiracied.
     
    #11
  12. psYcon

    psYcon Semi-Pro

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    #12
  13. nadal2012uso2013ao

    nadal2012uso2013ao Banned

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    Serena only leads Hingis 7-6.
     
    #13
  14. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    Clay: Graf wins 9 out of 10
    Grass: Serena wins 7 out of 10
    Hard Courts: Serena wins 7 out of 10
    Carpet/Indoors: Graf wins 6 out of 10
     
    #14
  15. The-Champ

    The-Champ Legend

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    yepp, and hingis quit just before she got even more drubbing from the queen.
     
    #15
  16. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    1999 was not prime Venus. Also if you think that was prime Venus it makes your asseration she is equal to prime Serena even more ridiculous when Venus didnt even make a slam final that year, something that even a fat untrained Serena is able to do in her worst years.
     
    #16
  17. jonnythan

    jonnythan Professional

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    Serena.

    As for Li vs Lee..... are we talking about a fight or an acting competition? Neither one of them were fighters.
     
    #17
  18. Brian11785

    Brian11785 Hall of Fame

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJE4vCj155o

    And here is an admittedly past-prime (but still before her final Slam) Steffi losing to a Serena who had not, at that point, even gotten to the quarterfinal of a Grand Slam.

    Regardless of whom you support in this thread, this is one of my, probably, Top 10 favorite match highlights videos on YouTube.
     
    #18
  19. nadal2012uso2013ao

    nadal2012uso2013ao Banned

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    Hingis was past her prime. Everyone knows Hingis peaked young, and won 3 straight over Serena (2000-2001), but then got injured and lost 3 in a row to Serena before retiring.
     
    #19
  20. Gangsta

    Gangsta Rookie

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    I say Graf wins. Only because I doubt how well Serena would handle Graf's wicked backhand slice.
     
    #20
  21. Devilito

    Devilito Hall of Fame

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    Only thing Serena could beat Graf in is a crip walk competition.
     
    #21
  22. SLD76

    SLD76 Legend

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    rofl..congrats to you, I was wondering how long it would take someone to bring up her celebratory dance.


    Kudos :)
     
    #22
  23. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Bionic Poster

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    Haters gonna hate lol :)
     
    #23
  24. cknobman

    cknobman Legend

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    Ok lets make things interesting

    Who wins - peak Yip Man vs peak Bruce Lee

    teacher vs student!!!!!!!!
     
    #24
  25. krz

    krz Professional

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    All those "masters" are fragile old men in a weak era(see what I did there? did you see it?). Bruce put a premium on physical fitness. Dude has bigger lats than Michael Phelps.
     
    #25
  26. above bored

    above bored Semi-Pro

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    They played each other twice and the head-to-head is 1-1.
     
    #26
  27. LDVTennis

    LDVTennis Professional

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    Graf was not impressed with Serena's game.

    They played three times.

    Hong Kong 99 (HC): Despite a very good serving performance, the best of the three matches, there was not much else that Serena showed against Graf. On the other hand, Graf's forehand worked as well against Serena as anyone else. Graf could not have been impressed.

    Sydney 99 (HC): Graf did not play very well, quite below her level in Hong Kong. Yet, she still won the match. Graf had even more reason not to be impressed.

    Indian Wells 99 (HC): (I was at this match.) It was the worst Graf played of the three. Still, Graf somehow managed to get a break up in the third. Yes, Serena won the match, but in three sets and only after Graf crashed mentally. With how Graf was playing, a more impressive player would have blown Graf off the court, but Serena didn't.

    Of the two W sisters, only Venus managed to defeat Graf soundly when she was not playing well. And I think Graf was impressed by that and also with how well Venus played when Graf was playing well. Graf took all her opponents seriously, but very few of them actually impressed her. Venus was such an opponent, Serena wasn't.
     
    #27
  28. Rock Strongo

    Rock Strongo Legend

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    I wonder how impressed she is now:)

    I'm glad you aren't Joe Pike, or this thread would be full of "YOU'RE ALL CLUELESS GRAF WOULD SMASH SERENA WITH A HAMMER AND YOU SHOULD ALL KILL YOURSELVES(last bit might be cut out by mods and rightfully so)". You're a sensible Graf fan, and thanks for that:p
     
    #28
  29. THUNDERVOLLEY

    THUNDERVOLLEY G.O.A.T.

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    #29
  30. cknobman

    cknobman Legend

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    LMFAO good stuff
     
    #30
  31. Soianka

    Soianka Hall of Fame

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    I have to agree.

    Seles at her best was too much for Steffi.

    I know we all love Steffi, but there's no way she could handle the power and serving ability of Serena when she couldn't handle Monica very well pre-stabbing.

    To think otherwise is to engage onself in a comforting fantasy.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2012
    #31
  32. Soianka

    Soianka Hall of Fame

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    Except in 1999 Venus was not in her prime. She had not won a single grand slam yet and was wildly error prone.

    In fact, she had not yet turned around the lopsided rivalry with Lindsay.

    Had Steffi played Venus of 2001, it would have been a much different story.
     
    #32
  33. Soianka

    Soianka Hall of Fame

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    LOL. How do you know who impressed Graf and who didn't?

    Does she speak to you through a tin foil hat?

    And nice excuse making of how Graf wasn't playing well at all of her encounters with Serena. Funny stuff.
     
    #33
  34. BauerAlmeida

    BauerAlmeida Semi-Pro

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    Graff for sure.
     
    #34
  35. McEnborg

    McEnborg Rookie

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    Graf wins simply because she was more consistent than Serena and could run down a lot of Serena's shots. They'd have some great rallies, but Graf was ultimately more consistent from the baseline.

    If Serena was serving at her best, she could win. But, most of the time, it would be Graf. A lot of these girls can't handle some of Serena's power. Graf could with both her rocket forehand and her consistent slice. Serena would struggle with Graf's slice--big time.
     
    #35
  36. The-Champ

    The-Champ Legend

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    Unless Graf serves like Sampras, Serena will attack her serve like there's no tomorrow. Graf has never faced a returner like Serena.
     
    #36
  37. MTF07

    MTF07 Semi-Pro

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    LOL at this blatant lie. There was never a point where Seles dominated Graf in the head to head. Steffi always had the upper hand.
     
    #37
  38. snowwhite

    snowwhite Semi-Pro

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    I think Serena will win on grass & hard, Graf on clay.
    Graf's game is disturbed by big hitters' style.
     
    #38
  39. snowwhite

    snowwhite Semi-Pro

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    I still very much remember that match, Graf was up a break in the third, and Serena had some injury in her foot, I think Graf underestimated Serena a bit, thought she wouldn't be able to win. and by the way mentioning how old Graf was in 1999 you have to take into account that Serena was only 17 with only 1 title.
     
    #39
  40. Soianka

    Soianka Hall of Fame

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    Between 1990 when Seles emerged as a top contender and the stabbing in 1993, Seles led the matchup 4-3.

    I didn't say she "dominated" Graf. I said at her best she was hard for Graf to handle and that is true.

    I think it's pretty clear had Seles not been stabbed and not left the tour for nearly 2 years, Graf's record would be a little different than it turned out to be.

    It's just wishful thinking to believe that Graf would be dominate over Serena Williams. But you can believe it, if it makes you feel better.

    It's wishful thinking to believe that Graf would have won as many grand slams in a field like today where she would not be getting 4-5 cream puff matches every grand slam (like she enjoyed in her heyday).
     
    #40
  41. Nadalgaenger

    Nadalgaenger Professional

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    #41
  42. BrooklynNY

    BrooklynNY Hall of Fame

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    Serena's game is devastating especially when she was coming forward so much, and even serve and volleying.

    Sampras like to me.

    I don't think you can compare. Just let Graf be Graf and Serena be Serena.

    People are so obsessed with ranking and comparing, I guess thats normal but still, sometimes we must not attempt
     
    #42
  43. heftylefty

    heftylefty Hall of Fame

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    This post is full of logic...thus full of win!!
     
    #43
  44. DRII

    DRII Legend

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    99 was not prime Venus. Her defense was best then but she became more offensive by 2000 and more consistent by 2001. Summer of 2001 was Venus' peak. Faster and more explosive than any other female player ever, with the biggest serve ever, and some of the best athleticism and improvisation ever, particularly on a fast surface!
     
    #44
  45. JustBob

    JustBob Hall of Fame

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    I agree. Seles was "power player 1.0", essentially the first player who could hit the ball hard from both sides. And that gave Graf trouble. The sport has evolved to a point where it's almost impossible to achieve success without having solid ground strokes off both sides. So Serena playing like she did at Wimbledon and at the Olympics would just be too much for Graf to handle. And that sliced backhand of hers would be her achilles heel. Not to mention having to deal with Serena's serve and athleticism, which Seles simply did not possess.
     
    #45
  46. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    1999 was Graf's last year as a pro. She's been through so many battles throughout her long career, and the body breaks down which she had multiple injuries. While Venus was inexperience, she was young and in better shape than Graf.
     
    #46
  47. sonicare

    sonicare Hall of Fame

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    Serena at her peak is Unbreakable.
     
    #47
  48. Mick

    Mick Legend

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    one thing is certain, Graf's and Serena's grand slam wins would have been less had they competed in the same era.
     
    #48
  49. Brian11785

    Brian11785 Hall of Fame

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    Sorry to change the topic a bit, but....

    I think the whole "(How many slams would Monica have won/would she be GOAT/would half the world's juniors be hitting 2HFHs) if not for the stabbing?" is played out. But something that does interest me is, how would a peak '91-'93 (or a never stabbed) Monica had handled the big hitters of 1997-present? Because late-career Monica and her suspect movement struggled more than Steffi against them, it would seem. By my calculation, a 5-23 record against Venus/Serena/Davenport. I haven't dug too deep into it, but I know she had a winning record against Capriati. I wonder what the breakdown of W/L are for comeback-Monica vs. comeback-Capriati.
     
    #49
  50. SLD76

    SLD76 Legend

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    ......shots fired!
     
    #50

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