Percentage of strength on shots

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by Djoker91, Nov 12, 2013.

  1. Mr.Lob

    Mr.Lob Hall of Fame

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    Yes it does. And that's pretty much my game, at least for now. Moderate pace with'placement and playing the net. Need more practice in "hitting out", right now it's'literally hit or miss... But getting better. I believe my form if fine, just need more court time.
     
    #51
  2. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

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    Yes. You want your buttcap pointing at the ball. Get the feel of that and then forget it or you will cause a hitch on your stroke. Once you drop the racquet, you don't want to be stopping and worrying about that aspect.

    It is called dropping into the slot and it will happen naturally once your stroke is developed.
     
    #52
  3. Mr.Lob

    Mr.Lob Hall of Fame

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    Yes it does. And that's pretty much my game, at least for now. Moderate pace with'placement and playing the net. Need more practice in "hitting out", right now it's'literally hit or miss... But getting better.

    I play a lot of doubles, and its much harder to get in that groove of hitting out on the ball when you are hitting the ball much less frequently.
     
    #53
  4. Djoker91

    Djoker91 Rookie

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    I don't mean to sound like a jerk, but I've been playing tennis a long time. Years. Everything else I have down, or at least understand it. Loose grip, passive wrist, footwork, follow through, keep head down thru and after contact, I've studied for more hours than I can count. I've always had the problem of the ball going long and loopy. So I'm looking for that one little thing I'm missing, probably located in the "forward swing to contact" part of my swing.
     
    #54
  5. Topspin Shot

    Topspin Shot Legend

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    No, you definitely don't sound like a jerk. Anyhow, the keep the plane the same tip might be the one for you, but there's no way to be sure of that until you go out there and try it. Out of curiosity, what's your approximate level? 4.0-4.5?
     
    #55
  6. Djoker91

    Djoker91 Rookie

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    If you see tommy haas hit, he has a slight pause, somewhat of a hitch. I was planning on modeling mine off of that and see if adding that piece finds a way to help
     
    #56
  7. Djoker91

    Djoker91 Rookie

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    I'm a 4.0 and my strategy is to place aggressive and be ready at the net to put away. It's just been very annoying that I can't produce that put away shot, you go thru all the hard work of constructing the point, starting with the serve, then you go to hit the winner in the open court and it looks like a rainbow and lands 5-10 feet long. Embarrassing
     
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  8. 10nisne1

    10nisne1 New User

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    Let me ask you 2 quick questions:

    1) Do you hit your forehand with a bent elbow (Djokovic) or do you employ a more of a straight arm (Federer/Del Po)?
    2) Do you tend to let the ball drop slightly when going for your kill shot?

    If you are missing the shot by 5 – 10 ft long, I’m guessing you employ a bent elbow forehand and you like to hit the ball a little lower than the ideal strike zone. This is only a guess since a video of your forehand hasn’t been provided.

    Most likely you are making contact with the ball with an open racket face and catching the ball “underneath” during your forward swing. This could happen more frequently with loopier swings.

    I would suggest when you want to put more pace on the ball to press for a winner that you hit through the ball more level. Instead of starting your forward swing 1 foot below the ball before you make contact, start your forward swing at the same level as the ball and make a less exaggerated brush up on the ball. For example your racket path is 1 5 – 20 degrees instead of 30 degree angle.

    Again, I’m only speculating what the issue might be with your swing without a video, but I used to have the same issue you described long time ago before I revamped my forehand.

    Good luck!

    10
     
    #58
  9. Djoker91

    Djoker91 Rookie

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    Yea don't worry a video is coming soon. This is the next step. The only indoor court is an hour away. Ummm, as to your questions, 1) yes I use the bent elbow, most comfortable for me, straight arm is difficult. And the other question. I actually make contact in line with my waist. I don't let it drop at all, because when I do that I get the feeling of golfing/shoveling the ball. When I miss long like that, the ball has a great deal of spin on it. I can see it and it's got some serious RPM's but it just goes up and keeps going up, then after the bounce explodes off the court again. I'd rather have that topspin drive that lands well within the court
     
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  10. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Wow, good one here...
    Rally balls, maybe 60%.
    Winner attempts, closer to 80%.
    Loser balls, 100%.
     
    #60
  11. rkelley

    rkelley Hall of Fame

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    Fed is keeping the plane the same, but the plane doesn't get set until fairly late in the swing. Still, it's enough time for it to get set, and as the player you know it's set, before contact happens. IMO this concept of keep the plane the same is super important to all modern strokes.

    Yah, I have to agree.
     
    #61
  12. Fintft

    Fintft Hall of Fame

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    Even to a low level player like me, it made the most difference (that and being relaxed). And it was the first thing the head coach at our club was getting at, when he saw my FH a couple of years ago.
     
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  13. user92626

    user92626 Legend

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    Does "keeping the plane the same" mean the racket face at 1 ft before contact is the same as it is at contact?
     
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  14. Fintft

    Fintft Hall of Fame

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    ^^^^
    Probably not necesarelly for the likes of Federer, but I was thinking of a similar question, i.e.:
    If this topic is not similar to "hitting through the ball"?
     
    #64
  15. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    "plane the same" is great for consistentcy of shot.
    Last second rolling onto contact, like the serve, might have more power.
     
    #65
  16. Djoker91

    Djoker91 Rookie

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    Just a quick update for everyone that has been helping me out with this. I believe I figured out the problem. It wasn't the "plane the same" as I already do that, without thinking. It was the forward swing to contact. I used a unit turn, starting with the shoulders to swing forward. That was wrong. I need to use the "sit and lift" and push off the ground with my legs. That's what propelled the racket forward but made the shot stay in. The legs start the swing, particularly the right leg. Push off the ground with it and the racket comes flying and the ball stays in. At least that was my problem!
     
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  17. Djoker91

    Djoker91 Rookie

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    This is true. But the last second rolling can be a little dangerous in that you must time it perfectly. Really hard for beginners, a little easier for advanced.
     
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  18. Djoker91

    Djoker91 Rookie

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    This was the answer. Now it's solved. When I rip a winner, my arm is loose and fluid. My right leg feels like over been using a leg press. That's the muscle that tenses up, pushing off the ground and getting serious pop. Can't thank you guys enough.
     
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  19. Djoker91

    Djoker91 Rookie

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    This was exactly it. I wasn't using legs anymore. When you watch pros warm up you see a great shoulder turn but not much legs. But in match play when they really hit the ball, you see some tremendous sit and lift. I need to always rely on what I've learned and not on what a pro does. When I rip the ball now my arm is loose as can be, just like before all these problems started, and my right leg is exploding off the court, great racket speed, and effortless from arm. Leg starts the whole process. That's the one element I've been missing. Pushing off the ground, which triggers hips, which triggers shoulder, racket lags behind. Before it was only shoulders then racket lag. Thanks a bunch for the help!! This is why I love this forum.
     
    #69
  20. GoaLaSSo

    GoaLaSSo Semi-Pro

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    I'm glad it is working! I have been trying to teach some of the juniors I coach this, and a lot of them have a hard time understanding the concept.

    It feels so nice to hit shots this way though, and the only times I find myself over hitting is when my footwork is wrong or I rotate incorrectly due to a funky contact point.
     
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  21. Djoker91

    Djoker91 Rookie

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    Absolutely. I learned this when I was 15 and had a booming forehand. Got away from it somehow (story of every rec players life) and finally am getting back to it. On shots that come in to quick, or that have some serious movement on them due to spin, it's very hard to do this on those shots. But those are rally balls you just try to get back in the court. Don't try to kill them for a winner unless your name is nadal. Eventually when that ball comes off their backhand that you can do something with, sit and lift and explode off with that right leg (for righties) and there is NO BETTER feeling smacking that for a winner!
     
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  22. Djoker91

    Djoker91 Rookie

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    Lol that's a phenomenal reply. Have you ever smashed a racket during a match?
     
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  23. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Good observation.
    Finals of my first tournament, C's (3.5) at GoldenGateParkSF, I played a guy who spit, blew his nose, threw his racket, cursed, and cheated on line calls at least 7 times in the first set. He won 7-6.
    Second set, first game, he called every one of my first serves OUT. Now for sure, at least 2 were long, but by then, over 25 fellow tennis players came over to watch this abberation match. Several called for line judge, none showed for a C level final.
    Second service game, he called one of my serves OUT that landed at least a foot IN, and jammed him. Well, down 7-6 and love 2, I tossed my racket straight up, higher than the Cyprus trees around the courts (maybe 40'), and caught it at the handle.
    I ended up losing the match 7-6, 6-0, Daniel got his name engraved in GGPard's winner's plaque, promptly got BANNED from GoldenGatePark, and some very nice A/Open level women players came over and asked if I'd like to hit with them for practice ...:):)
     
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  24. Djoker91

    Djoker91 Rookie

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    Haha man... That's gotta be infuriating stuff. I've never encountered that, but I did completely demolish my racket after some horrible play. Missed all the shots in the world, even when I was just trying to get the ball in. Facing match point I dump the easiest overhead smash into the net. Demolished the racket. Ensued about 6 months of the best tennis I'd ever played!
     
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  25. fuzz nation

    fuzz nation Legend

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    Hey Djoker - one idea I'll throw into the ring here that may help to further develop your bigger shots.

    More or less, be a Corolla. Here comes the explanation.

    Think about your swing tempo for your typical rally ball in terms of how fluid it is when it's "right". The incoming ball is on the way and you need "x" amount of time to set up and swing, right?

    So what happens when a sitter comes into your office and you decide to smoke it for a winner? Too many of us wait to take that bigger swing even though it takes slightly more time to execute it. Instead of settting up earlier to take that longer swing, we only give ourselves the amount of time we need to hit that 60% rally ball. That's the same as put-putting down the street in a Corolla at 35 mph, but deciding that we can accelerate the same as a Corvette when we want to hit the highway and do 65 mph.

    We can all do 65, even in our Corollas, but we just need to give ourselves enough time to get up to speed. When you go for a winner, don't imagine that you magically turn into a Corvette. Be a Corolla and just give yourself more time to take that bigger stroke with that same fluid execution.

    Maybe a goofy analogy, but I've driven both cars, so it works for me...
     
    #75
  26. dominikk1985

    dominikk1985 Legend

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    it is actually quite normal that technique breaks down under max load. famous weightlifting coach said that almost anyone has a good lifting form at 70% (unless they are coached badly or total beginners) but at 100% the technique often breaks down due to weak points.

    in all sports it is an art to maintain control when you get closer to 100%. that needs a lot of practice and also elimination of weak spots in the kinetic chain (core stabilisation, antagonists...). louie simmons for example makes his athletes technique break down and then specifically builds up the lagging muscle groups so that the technique gets more stable.

    as a tennis player you also have to find your weak spots in your swing as you go harder (pulling the shoulders off, losing balance, whatever) and eliminate that. and most importantly you have to practice hit hard.

    however you should NOT swing 100% and then hope to get control. start at 60% and then GRADUALLY increase your effort till you are close to 100%.
     
    #76
  27. Djoker91

    Djoker91 Rookie

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    Great points mate, thanks! Hadn't thought of this
     
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  28. Djoker91

    Djoker91 Rookie

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    What a great way to articulate that point. Very easily understood and makes great sense. I'll be sure to allow myself the time needed, and to keep the fluidity that I can maintain at 35 mph. :)
     
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