Pete Sampras ‘How to disguise your serve’

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by Laurie, Feb 14, 2013.

  1. ultradr

    ultradr Hall of Fame

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    Sampras' was the best in all aspects of serving

    • pace
    • accuracy
    • varieties
    • disguise
    • consistency over long period
    • management and change ups
    • efficiency
    • backing it up with rest of his game
    • and so on

    It was proven time and time again for over decade, we witnessed how deep
    Pete's serve was in every aspect listed above.

    In terms of sheer potency, some people say Krajicek's and Ivanesvic's were
    the most devastating.

    And, please, somebody drop Wayne Athurs from this thread.
     
    #51
  2. Raul_SJ

    Raul_SJ Professional

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    It looks like Sampras was disguising not just the serve placement but the spin as well. Returners didn't know if a flat or a kick or a slice was coming.

    I was tossing at 12 o'clock for a kick serve and 1 o'clock for a flat serve.

    The new coach then told me to try to use basically the same toss for kick and flat (use a very slight tossing difference). He said if my toss varied too much for a kick serve, I would be giving the spin away.

    I had thought it wasn't a big issue if the returner knew a kick serve was coming but I can understand why the coach thinks its important to disguise the spin.
     
    #52
  3. Mahboob Khan

    Mahboob Khan Hall of Fame

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    The key is that the players must spend 50% of their practice time on learning all types of serves and then applying it in pointplay situations. In the coaching camps I observe that too much time is spent on ground strokes and very little on serve. We all know that a point does not start with a ground stroke, it starts with a serve.

    The serve should be practiced in two segments:

    1. Serving from the basket to various targets, (spin control, heights), etc., and

    2. Pointplay situations, practice sets, etc.

    For example, in pointplay situations the following discipline may be followed:

    Playpoints or a set with the following rule:

    If you win the point with a volley and/or a smash you win 4 points. If you win the point from the baseline you win just 1 point.

    This will improve the other essential area such as approach shots because without quality approach shot you can't have a decent first volley.

    Mahboob Khan
     
    #53
  4. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly G.O.A.T.

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    Thanks for the feedback guys. Not read Andre's book myself. The first time I heard of the tell, someone said that it was Henman. The 2nd time I heard the story, it was Sampras. Goes to show you... unless it's on the internet, it may not be true (and I am a French model).
    .
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2013
    #54
  5. Mahboob Khan

    Mahboob Khan Hall of Fame

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    Nice to hear from you sir.
     
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  6. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly G.O.A.T.

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    Wow, a blast from the past. I don't think that I've seen much from you in more than a year. Good to see you and B Bill posting again. It's the 2nd coming.
     
    #56
  7. Mahboob Khan

    Mahboob Khan Hall of Fame

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    I will try to be around. My time is distributed between Facebook, Twitter, and some international News Forums. But I have realized that the TW is the place where we all belong.
     
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  8. TennisCJC

    TennisCJC Legend

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    Correct, there were a few that had 1st serves that could hang with Pete, but day in and day out, no one could hang with his 2nd serve. Pete had the only 2nd serve that could frustrate Agassi. Pete would pick up his 2nd serve up quality against Agassi and it was almost as effective as his 1st serve.

    Pete had the best serve overall that I have seen since I started paying attention in the mid-70s.
     
    #58
  9. TennisCJC

    TennisCJC Legend

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    Disquise is important but I have noticed that Federer uses 2 tosses. He 1st serve toss appears to be toward 1 and out front. His 2nd serve toss is around 12 and not quite as far out front. He can hit L, R or middle from these 2 toss locations.

    So, I don't think it is too bad to move the toss.
     
    #59
  10. Mahboob Khan

    Mahboob Khan Hall of Fame

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    Of course the toss should be adjusted such so that the receiver fails to notice it.
     
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  11. Raul_SJ

    Raul_SJ Professional

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    Can Federer still hit slice and flat, along with kick, with the second serve toss?

    Coach thinks that it's important not to telegraph the spin, else the returner will have an advantage if he knows it will always be a kick with a 12 o'clock toss.
     
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  12. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly G.O.A.T.

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    It is very unlikely that Federer is going to hit a flat 2nd serve very often, if at all. It is no secret that the 2nd serve will usually have a lot more spin than the 1st serve.

    Sampras has also spoken of using 2 different tosses. However, the difference in his 2 tosses, or Roger's 2 tosses will usually be less noticeable than it is for us mere mortals. Even 3 different tosses are ok for most of us as long as it is effective.

    No need to disguise the fact that we are hitting the 2nd serve with more spin that the first. It is more important to disguise your placement than the type of serve you are delivering. Your shoulder motion and the swing path of your racket should tip the receiver off to the type of serve -- Can't get around that even if you try to disguise with your toss. You do not want to vary the toss just to vary the placement of your serve.
     
    #62
  13. Relinquis

    Relinquis Hall of Fame

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    what about a tweener serve, i.e. more pace and flatter than a topspin serve, but more spin/kick then a flat serve?

    can we not achieve this by the same toss and motion as the kick/topspin serve, but just adding pronation and hitting more through the ball?
     
    #63
  14. Mick3391

    Mick3391 Professional

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    Is it ego if true?
     
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  15. Raul_SJ

    Raul_SJ Professional

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    Are you saying that with Sampras, the changes in his swing path and toss were so subtle that the returner often could not tell if a flat,slice or kick was coming?
     
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  16. Relinquis

    Relinquis Hall of Fame

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    one of the greatest tennis players and servers of all time gives a few tips and you guys talk about ego and arrogance?!

    how insecure are you guys?
     
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  17. GoudX

    GoudX Professional

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    Yes, attempting to ace an opponent isn't always the correct play. If you go for fast serves at wide angles all the time you will hit a ridiculous number of faults and put a lot of pressure on your second serve. Also your opponent will get used to having to return your best serves, making them less effective than if you mix the serve up, which they can't get as used to and leaves the ace attempt as more of a surprise.
     
    #67
  18. brucie

    brucie Professional

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    When you are one of the greatest players of all time I think you should be allowed to make them sot of statements.

    Likewise Federer, hes quite modest all things considered.
     
    #68
  19. Anaconda

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    That's what Agassi said of Becker's serve about the tongue. Eventually Becker kicked the habit.
     
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