Petition to amend 2014 USTA Jr rules

Discussion in 'Junior League & Tournament Talk' started by tennisforlife77, Aug 15, 2012.

  1. tennisforlife77

    tennisforlife77 Rookie

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    #1
  2. ga tennis

    ga tennis Hall of Fame

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    Whats the point? They never asked parents before they made the changes why would they care now?
     
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  3. chalkflewup

    chalkflewup Hall of Fame

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    ^^^ Agreed. They did conduct a survey 3 years ago. I voted once and I'm not voting again.
     
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  4. DB_Cooper

    DB_Cooper New User

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    Signed by court2court. I can see the pool of people who sign this overflowing with credibility. This is just more noise.
     
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  5. ga tennis

    ga tennis Hall of Fame

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    Im not gonna worry bout the changes.If my daughter wins then it will all take care of itself.
     
    #5
  6. BirdieLane

    BirdieLane New User

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    Bigger issues

    New USTA stuff is nothing compared to what NCAA just did to college tennis. College tennis is now worse than backdraws of junior tourneys...super breakers and 6 game matches for doubles?

    USTA changes are not even evil. Maybe going to a regional now will actually be a decent quality draw. And making kids work their way up from a Level 4 regional to a level2 national...or a level 3 regional to a sweet 16 seems like great incentive.

    I guess the bright side of the NCAA changes is they might have solved the international players problem so many have whined about...I suspect fewer borderline professional juniors will want to play NCAA tennis when it's less demanding than little Mo tourneys.

    This petition is a lot of bluster and hearsay in the preamble. Is that Hannity-speak? Let me know when there's a petition against the NCAA changes.

    #sadday
     
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  7. strike1

    strike1 New User

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    zonals

    I understand the frustration, but I have to admit I have been thinking about something similar since we got back from zonals this year. Although I see zonals on the calendar for next year, the talk at Wake Forest a few weeks ago is that zonals is definitely gone after that. Our son has played zonals in 12s, 14s, and 16s and would keep playing it forever if he could -- we think it may be one of the most positive tennis experiences he has had. If we are right that this is one of the "changes" coming, what about a targeted petition specifically addressing zonals? I agree that there are lots and lots of issues with the upcoming changes, but I am not sure how effective a general petition will be. I keep thinking though that something specific targeting one issue (at a time) might be more potent. I would love to hear what you all think. And sorry, maybe this should be a new thread specifically about zonals . . . . .
     
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  8. BirdieLane

    BirdieLane New User

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    My understanding is that Zonals is not going anywhere. Only twist is that I think it is going to run concurrent with Intersectionals which is going to be expanded to 14s as well as the current 16s. And again this is a great incentive and I like the change. Intersectionals gets a lot of top players, zonals doesn't. So now, if you are top 4 in your Section, you play Intersectionals. If not, then you play Zonals. (i.e. work hard if you want to play Zonals....work REALLY hard if you want to play Intersectionals)
     
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  9. strike1

    strike1 New User

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    Thanks Birdielane, I hope you are right. That change would actually make alot of sense. All of the folks at Wake Forest (16s) this year unfortunately had heard otherwise so I would love to hear from others if anyone knows for sure?
     
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  10. MarTennis

    MarTennis Rookie

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    Great point about international players...

    ...but also going to make some homegrown players reassess. The irony being that USTA Player Development now encouraging juniors to play in college. Total blindness by the left and right hand on that front. Going to be lots of teens in the Futures starting NOW.
     
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  11. BirdieLane

    BirdieLane New User

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    Your report of "All of the folks at Wake Forest" is a case in point on how little the whiners know about the new system. Hardly digging at all, from the USTA website I found this:

    http://www.usta.com/Youth-Tennis/Junior-Competition/2014_sample_national_tournament_calendar/

    See July. Clearly Zonals lives on but with Intersectionals running concurrently which makes a lot of sense as do lots of the changes.

    I don't agree with every point of the new system, but I think it will at least mean that national play is truly high-level competition. Because there are a lot of players running around the country playing nationals who are not dominant regional players and always lose quickly at national events. Some could clearly spend that time and money on their games rather than the hotels and airfares and they'd be better players for it.
     
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  12. BirdieLane

    BirdieLane New User

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    I'm not sure if this particular right and left hand are of the same origin...I would think PD is not happy with this but who knows.

    Sophomore NCAA champ Nicole Gibbs who has been playing pro tennis this summer but intended on going back to Stanford tweeted:

    RT @Gibbsyyyy: @NCAA thank you for reducing my sport to a joke at the collegiate level #wasteoftime

    But totally agree MarTennis - teens/futures is a lock stock.
     
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  13. chalkflewup

    chalkflewup Hall of Fame

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    Not just USTA saying that...Cahill and many others in the know.
     
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  14. chalkflewup

    chalkflewup Hall of Fame

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    This is the post of the year. Thank you.
     
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  15. 10ismom

    10ismom Semi-Pro

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    Educate me on this. What will be the new college format? Are they compressing the matches so college tennis would be televised?

    Just hoping!
     
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  16. MarTennis

    MarTennis Rookie

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    Switched to current junior tennis format...

    10 point tiebreaker for 3rd set in singles. Doubles is 6 game one set affair.
     
    #16
  17. 10ismom

    10ismom Semi-Pro

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    Wow! That's not good for pro developmental path.
    How will a player be prepared for best of 5 in a Grand Slam match?
     
    #17
  18. MarTennis

    MarTennis Rookie

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    You can't...

    go to college and become a pro, under this format. Maybe Mitchell Krueger got a heads up.
     
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  19. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

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    Or play NAIA or JUCO. Although no one here cares. I hope they don't also adopt the NCAA new format.
     
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  20. TennisEko

    TennisEko Banned

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    The rules are tough, but so is life. You win and you get in. Kids need to excel at what they do. If you lose just play the lower end tournaments untill you get better. There is no reason for kids that are really good to waste time in the early rounds. High level tournaments need high level matches right from the first round....I think USTA is on the right track. Someone needs to step up and make the changes..
     
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  21. tennis5

    tennis5 Professional

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    New potential NCAA changes seem to be copying junior tennis where pro set for doubles is standard except for Super Nats ( 2x a year in 2014) and tie breaker which is used in the backdraws....
    So, USTA and college tennis will be in sync. Yeah! ( sarcastic yeah).
     
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  22. hound 109

    hound 109 Rookie

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    Comments below:

    .
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2012
    #22
  23. hound 109

    hound 109 Rookie

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    Those inclined to spend money on airfare & hotels will still do so if traveling to the above referenced regional L3s & L4s. (so much for the stated usta goal to stop lower ranked players from spending money & missing school).

    But for top 100 players who would love to compete against each other over Spring Break or over Winter Break.....for the fun of it & for the competition & for experience & development & for the chance to show their stuff in front of college coaches......they'll be SOL.

    All of us who've read the Junior changes going down in 2014 are aware that Zonals continue. (& we're keeping our fingers crossed that no change in the 2014 schedule affects Zonals....they have changed a couple of items from the original posting & could do so again).

    People on this board are sharing information. Some posters call people "whiners" & give half accurate info. Conclusions made & opinions being given without understanding the new "pathway" is a mistake imo.
    .
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2012
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  24. BirdieLane

    BirdieLane New User

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    Hound, you make some points. Here is clarification/discussion:

    You could be right on L4 regionals. I really hope they consider opening regionals nationwide again..I feel that's the worst part of the proposed changes.

    And I've definitely read everything on the 2014 stuff and have followed it closely since last November. I'd actually prefer it didn't change because our family will lose flexibility. But regardless, it's my opinion that the new stuff just makes it a little harder to get to national level play and that's ok. If you are winning, you will get there.

    For disclosure, I have 4 kids that play...one nationally, one regionally, and two local/sectionally. The new changes virtually insures my 'regional' level player will not play nationally...and again, thats ok. She would need to step it up quite a bit if she wanted to be a true national level player. Note also that all of them play other sports at a fairly high level as well so I've seen how some other sports work with regard to regional/national play as well - and to me, tennis seems to be one of the 'easiest' to participate nationally if you are willing to buy the airline ticket.

    As for Regional L3 -> Sweet 16: Sweet 16 is 4 WCs and 12 from standing list. So you have a decent chance if you are top 20 probably. And I would contend that if you won three L3 regionals in a row, you will not have any endorsement issues and you probably also have decent results in the Feb/Nov L2s and the summer L1s and you'll be knocking on the door of the top 20 and get your sweet16.

    As a possible peek, we should keep an eye on the Nike Masters coming up next month. They have exact same selection criteria as the proposed sweet 16s. As further disclosure, my 'national' level player started summer ranked in 70s but had good runs at National events this summer and ranking jumped way up and will now get selected directly into Nike Masters. So I know it can be done.

    As for bluster and hearsay...Russell and Hannity are both overacheivers. Their exchanges were short on clear points and full of attempted clever and not so subtle personal jabs.

    And just like this petition. One example: "The rule changes will be so discouraging for those players just below the top ranked players and the middle of the pack players, they will quit the sport."

    Sorry, but none of my kids are going to quit tennis because of the new USTA rules. And I don't think our local tennis and quickstart programs are going to collapse either. Kids and parents at the entry level have no idea what is or isn't in store for them in terms of national opportunities. We only find out about the national scene after our kids have fallen in love with the game and it's too late! :)

    The eight yr olds out there starting today are looking at that shiny trophy for the city 10 and under champ likes it's a wimbledon trophy.

    On the NCAA stuff, different topic but generating more consensus outrage than even this USTA stuff. Have a look at zoo tennis blog (zootennis.com) and/or search twitter for #savecollegetennis. Collette Lewis, an incredible internet journalist/blogger of junior and college tennis actually said she'll quit covering D1 tennis if the new NCAA scheduled changes are implemented. I hope she doesn't. In comparison, from reading her coverage, I don't think she's losing much sleep over the USTA changes although she's slightly against them I think.

    And thus my original point. I can live with new USTA stuff, but I'm very sad about the NCAA changes that are on tap.

    Sorry so long (but then again, it's all relative...it's short compared to the manifestos by Russell and Hannity!)
     
    #24
  25. chalkflewup

    chalkflewup Hall of Fame

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    Absolutely correct. And in the 16s and 18s at these high level nationals - lose the back draw. That will change the mindset of a lot of our best players.
     
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  26. justinmadison

    justinmadison Semi-Pro

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    There are only 4 brand new posters on this thread. If you guys can get busy creating more sock puppets pretty soon a majority of the posts on the board will support the USTA changes.
     
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  27. chalkflewup

    chalkflewup Hall of Fame

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    I'm not smart enough to track two logins nor do I care what the USTA does or doesn't do with respect to the changes. And I don't think majority matters here anyway. I suspect USTA views this forum as a Cuckoo's Nest.
     
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  28. tennis5

    tennis5 Professional

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    First, the USTA doesn't care what any forum or group of parents think about junior tennis.
    It is just a hard true fact.

    I can't say what the support is for or against from this forum, as it is anonymous.

    I do suspect that some posters here have created new double accounts,
    but they must be unemployed with tons of time on their hand..........

    What I can tell you is the one to one conversations that I have with folks at national tournaments.
    I love to watch junior tennis and I love to chat, so I am sitting there for hours.
    And I haven't met one coach, parent, or junior who supports the new changes.
     
    #28
  29. justinmadison

    justinmadison Semi-Pro

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    I never thought you were trying to track two logins. They might think this forum is a Cuckoo's Nest but one the other hand they might not even know it exists.
     
    #29
  30. BirdieLane

    BirdieLane New User

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    Nice welcoming committee here...

    So if someone new comes on the forum and isn't against the USTA changes, and actually thinks some of it makes a little sense, the assumption is they must not be legitimate?

    I've been reading and tempted to contribute to the conversation for months...and I finally do and then two posters throw out that I'm likely not authentic. No wonder these new changes are not getting looked at objectively given this sort of conspiratorial mindset.

    I'm not going to profile my kids on here anymore than I have. But if you really can't get your mind around the thought that a current parent/player is willing to give the new changes a chance, PM me and I'll give you enough info that you know I'm not trolling or snowing anyone.

    Um..ok scratch that...this forum doesn't allow for PM?? Or can you PM if you add to 'Buddy List'? OK, FAQ seems to imply you can PM if on buddy list so if you are willing to ruin your perfect record of claiming 100% of parents/juniors are against changes, Buddy and PM me.
     
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  31. justinmadison

    justinmadison Semi-Pro

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    My Bad. I don’t know why we would jump to the conspiracy theory. After all you went from tempted to contribute for months to nine posts in one day. Perfectly reasonable.
     
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  32. chalkflewup

    chalkflewup Hall of Fame

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    Don't sweat it Birdie... I continue in my belief that it takes all kinds to navigate the sea of tennis.

    I know I'm in the minority in my thinking here but, I've never been a follower and I'm too old to change. And quite frankly, from where I sit, I like the view.
     
    #32
  33. justinmadison

    justinmadison Semi-Pro

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    Chalk, you have definitely been consistent in your views on this issue. When I started the first thread in August 2010 I was the minority. I think I may have been the only one opposed to the changes.


    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=341746
     
    #33
  34. BirdieLane

    BirdieLane New User

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    Sorry to bend the bounds of reasonableness justin. It's obviously not worth the time to try and contribute alternate views anyway with closeminded know-it-all folks like you since you are so sure I'm some alter-ego of another poster.

    As a final general comment on the petition...

    I too have talked about the new changes at several national tourneys with several parents. And what I can you is that many, if not most of the parents against it cannot describe the details of the new system. And that includes several names I see on the petition. At the McEnroe meeting, much of it was actually off-topic grips about wildcards and PD policys instead of what the new system means to typical top sectional player.

    When I say I'm not against it, parents are surprised...and also interested since they are just getting Hannity-type sound bites about the end of life as we know it.

    So they are also surprised to find out things such as that USTA is adding 14s Intersectionals. And while winters as we know it is going away, most people don't understand the general framework of the team events they are going to put in it's place.

    I.e waterfall players off the national standings list onto 16 teams, give each team a coach and add training and education into the event.

    Maybe it won't work...but then again, maybe it will be a home run. Christmas time doesn't work my family but the general framework behind this event makes me wish it did so my national level player could try it.

    [And toward the winter team events...it's two tiers with 32 kids for each tier from 14, 16, 18. So first, with 64 age level spots, and given winter nationals participation levels, this probably means you are in if top 120ish and probably even deeper. (I just looked at last years B12s selection list for winters and there are boys ranked 400, 500, and 600 that got in! Sorry guys, but these are not national level players.) Second, yeah, no 12s but the best 12s will probably get in on their 14s NSL. But enjoy the holidays at home this year and sharpen you game so that next you you make it..]

    As I've said, I like the current system - it's worked great for us. And if I had to declare today to stick with current or go with new, I'd say stick with current - mostly because I know it works. But my only message is that based on my view from the ground - I don't see anything inherently evil about the new proposals that will kill any of my kids passion or opportunities to play this great game.

    So is this 10 posts now? Crazy!
     
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  35. justinmadison

    justinmadison Semi-Pro

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    I am glad the new system will not kill any of your kid’s opportunities to play the game. Would you mind sharing their approximate national and sectional rank and age group? It would be interesting to look at the new schedule .vs. the old to see how they compare for your situation.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2012
    #35
  36. BirdieLane

    BirdieLane New User

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    Kids age 11-17. three are zonals/regional level players, have done some RTC camps; national one as mentioned above had a good summer and ranking will now qualify for nike masters in sept (Nike Masters is using same selection process as 2014 sweet16)

    Agree it will be interesting to see how new structure affects us and that's why I've looked at it closely. I hope not too much but I do know my kids passion for the game will not be affected at all.

    Actually, as I think about it and reflect on how motivated the national level player was to make Nike this year...I think I have my answer. I hope 2014 Easter Bowl (32) and maybe even sweet 16 selection aspiration will provide the same extra level of drive I saw this last six months in striving for Nike Masters.

    Also...a random thought on college exposure: Junior tennis is light years ahead of other sports with tennisrecruiting.net. Objective, easy, very easy for coaches to find and recruit kids, kids to let coaches know they have interest in their programs, etc. TR.net rankings are far superior to USTA PPR style ranking and coaches know it.
     
    #36
  37. tennis5

    tennis5 Professional

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    Thanks for posting your views with the details of why you think the changes are good.

    This is a light year step for the pro USTA 2014 change posters who just like to say they think it is great for junior tennis.

    Now, we can have a real debate about the issues.

    There is surprisingly very little information about Winter Nationals which I believe is the tournament most parents are upset to lose.

    And it flies in the face of the USTA who state they are canceling tournaments as they don't want the kids to miss school.

    I can only assume as the PD players don't go to school, the USTA didn't realize that Xmas was a time off for schools.

    So, Winter Team will be two tiers and while they will be held at the same location, they will not be together.

    "next best 32 players" makes up the 2nd tier level".

    Maybe, by 18, you can say these are the 32 best players and they should get all the perks of this special team event.

    But, at 14 and under.........

    You are going to segregate 13 and 14 year olds? There will be no interplay...............

    These 32 kids are in this pile and these 32 kids are in this other pile.

    The USTA has figured out that 13 year old kids don't move around in tennis ability,
    and there is no need for them to play each other....

    Colette from Zoo Tennis who I think presents a fair and balance report, although loosely affiliated with the USTA, wondered the same question on her blog.

    And the 12's are gone completely at Xmas.
    There was no rational for that except that I guess it falls under the reasoning that the kids shouldn't miss school.

    Now in a different post, you mentioned that the PMac meetings between the parents and him
    did not center around the changes in the schedule, but the WC and PD.

    No one knows yet what the wildcards will be for the team event.

    The 2014 Feb proposal put out by the USTA

    https://docs.google.com/file/d/0By9...ViMC00YTY5LWE3YzgtY2YyODFkMWE5ZmNj/edit?pli=1

    mentions there will be a Gold ball for the team.

    But, the earlier USTA proposal which set out the most details ( viewed here on Talk Tennis by a nice poster)
    talked about the actual wild cards for this event.

    There are no numbers yet for wildcards for Winter Team event.
    But, they are saying from this Feb proposal that winners for the Winter Team will come from the new USTA National Grand Masters tournament ( level 1) and then the team members will be chosen from wildcards and then the standing list.

    Numbers thrown out before were 8-12 wildcards for a 32 team from their earlier USTA proposal
    seen here on Talk Tennis ( In the trenches).

    Sounds ridiculous?

    Well, remember, Clays and Hard was 192 then cut to 64.........

    AND THIS IS IMPORTANT.... in the final FINISHED proposal for clay and hard,
    they state that they are increasing wildcards for 18's as they increased the tournament from 64 to 128.
    Yes, that is insulting to the reader.. That we have such a short attention span.

    So.... wildcards are a big deal here.

    The whole premise is that entrance into the tournaments will be earned off sectional ranking is a joke
    as the good players don't live in their small sections, and never play their sectionals.

    Your advice is to " enjoy the holidays at home this year and sharpen you game so that next you make it."

    Well, maybe if you live in a warm weather state, you can sharpen your game.

    But, do you realize for the cold weather states ( big country....), we play indoors 9 months of the year.

    Winter Nationals served an important purpose for indoor kids to COMPETE OUTDOORS.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2012
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  38. chalkflewup

    chalkflewup Hall of Fame

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    Way too much travel and travel expense. Turn the clock back and you'll see we had very few national tournaments for juniors and Americans dominated the tour...so maybe we are on the right path with all the changes.

    There are PLENTY of anti-USTA posters here that say the changes are bad for junior tennis and the argument usually ends with conspiracy chatter, draw fixing, anti-PMac comments...absolute nonsense.

    You "assume" PD kids don't go to school. So Redlicki is going to Duke next year even though he doesn't go to school according to you. OK.

    Why do you think Johann Kriek won back to back Aussie Opens (sorry Johann)? Because they used to hold it during the holidays and it didn't draw the best players in the world. Winter Nats is no different. That should be family time at HOME. I really don't care what they do but I ain't going. And if it does continue, they should put an asterisk next to the winner's name or change the name and call it the Western Open.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2012
    #38
  39. chalkflewup

    chalkflewup Hall of Fame

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    This is without a doubt the best summary post regarding the proposed changes regardless of what side you sit on. And I love your "and that's OK attitude" about change. We need more of that across the country.
     
    #39
  40. BirdieLane

    BirdieLane New User

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    First, yes, I understand indoor play since I'm ice skating on the pond behind my house in January :). And let me add that I'm always a little caught off guard when we run into rain during a tourney in the south and there is no indoor courts for 400 miles. What?? You and I will never be flipping a coin for a trophy like the boys 18s did for the Clay Court championship or skipping matches like they did at Intersectionals this year. In fact, you and I never miss a day of practice whereas many of our southern padres are often washed out. And think of all that money we save on sunscreen! (ok, that court time might offset it a bit but there's always the snowshovel.)

    But back to the issues at hand...in no particular order.

    Funny thing is that as I think about this more, the more I like some of the new ideas. For instance, in writing a prev post, it hit me that my national level player put a lot of effort into having a great summer because of the selection criteria for the Nike Masters - and so I hope to see that same determination in 2014 in *trying* making Easter32 and Sweet16. Making these cuts might not/probably won't happen, but it's the effort/determination that is important. My regional level kids have had same experience trying to make Zonal teams. It pushes the kids when they really want something and they have to buckle down and work hard and play well and hope for the best. The new proposal might have moved some of the bars around, but the concept is alive and well.

    Let me put in another way. Take a national player such as mine - Making the L1s isn't a huge deal anymore, but no matter how hard you work, A USTA ball may never be in the cards...so the L1s are just a matter of your inevitible fall, hopefully a respectable match against a decent seed. But in 2014, making a Sweet16 or Easter32 or Nike16? Or even a winter nats team? Now there's a real goal that might be acheivable. Lets go coach!!

    You mention the draw sizes jumping around...I know they had hards and clays all messed up a few drafts ago. Clays was going to a small tourney over Memorial day but when they put that out for review, it went over like the proverbial lead ballon. So they reinstated it back to it's original spot as a 128. (So accusations of them not listening to feedback are not 100% accurate.)

    Agree with you that winter team events is not very well defined. I'm guessing the problem there is that they are still working on it? But it's such a new and different event that I'm glad they are are taking their time and not boxing themselves in. And maybe I'm wrong or niave, but I don't think it's going to a PD invitational and I still think they will be reaching low into the NSL to find participants given it's the holidays and the historical weakness of winter nationals. And again, maybe it's a bomb or maybe it's a homerun - but some of the big ideas of it seem fresh and fun to me. Lets talk in January 2015.

    And I don't exactly follow your point on the problems with the two groups that will undoubtedly be based on NSL...but again, give them time to get it right. I just looked at boys and girls 14s selections from last winters. If you took top 64 applicants, you are down to #108 in boys and #160 in girls. I think that's inclusive enough for national play over the holidays. And if you are say a #65 girl who makes tier 1 team event and you lose all your matches and get shut out in points, but the #75 girl who played in tier 2 team event got five wins...It's on the USTA to get the points right so you swap places next time around.

    Back to a higher level view:

    What I like about new proposal:

    -14 Intersectionals

    -Sweet 16s that penalize players who don't play out their compass matches.

    -2 levels of national/regional play running concurrently. I really think some players will push hard to make the first cut..and then strive harder to make the top group next time around (i.e.Sweet16 v L3 regionals; L2 Nats v L4 Regionals; Intersectionals v Zonals)

    -National points for two Sectional L3s + four Sectional L4s (two extra tourneys). That's your six national ranking tourneys right there and you might not have to play any regionals. I.e. just play L1s and L2s like you do now. And if you do well, you'll get a shot at Sweet16 and Easter32. I was originally worried about aging up in the new system but with more national points available in sectional play, true national level players should be able to grab a lot of national points playing up in their sectional events.

    What I don't like about proposal:

    -Closed L3 Regionals
    -No Sweet16 for 18s
    -Easter bowl cuts...I like the idea of a supernat with a higher rung to up ante for qualfying, but I think I'd rather see it 64.

    But as I've said several times above...none of these will dampen the sport for any of my kids nor can I see them having any effect on entry level local programs.

    What's above my paygrade in the proposal:

    -Grand Masters thing
    -Wildcards

    On wildcards: Sure a lot of PD players get them, but honestly the PD player generally more than belongs in the tourney for which the wildcard was granted. If you follow the wildcards closely, the only real mysteries to me have been some of the marginal non-PD players who are getting them for some reason.

    And lastly, I offer an apology for my apathy for reduced 12s events. I don't mean that sarcastically either. I just think at 12s most don't need it and the existing offering will more than serve the ones that might. Keep the kids in other sports for an extra year to improve the overall athelte or play up sectionally if you are dominating sectionally but can't make a 64 national cut. Or again, save that time and money and invest it on the practice courts. Look up "Williams", Serena or Venus if you want some precedence on that note.

    (gee it's late - this board is a little addicting)

    So I'll sign off for the night with a somber bedtime thought. Unless it's local, how much "per match" does a national event cost for the 75% of players that lose in first two rounds? $500ish? $1000 or more if you go out in two? (and double that if you are taking time off work...) I don't think very many 12 and under matches are worth $1000. So again, hit the practice courts when you are 12 and save the $1000 matches for maybe the 14s or 16s. I'm scaring myself now. Better go check my lotto numbers.

    g'night.
     
    #40
  41. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

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    This is ironic given your experience in this area. #potkettleblack.
     
    #41
  42. chalkflewup

    chalkflewup Hall of Fame

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    Ahhhh and a good morning to another one of my beloved fans! I have WAY too much ego to hide behind multiple screen names.

    But if helps your story, feel free to continue to discredit me. It really makes you out to be the bad guy.

    Have a great day!!
     
    #42
  43. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

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    I was not talking to you. But now that you've responded it appears you just called yourself out.
     
    #43
  44. chalkflewup

    chalkflewup Hall of Fame

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    My bad andfor. I did call myself out as a one man-one screen name. If anyone can prove otherwise, lunch is on me!
     
    #44
  45. tennis5

    tennis5 Professional

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    Said the guy who thought I was BB....

    And a host of other people until they called you out.

    Geez.
     
    #45
  46. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

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    Settle down you two while you get your alias's straight.
     
    #46
  47. chalkflewup

    chalkflewup Hall of Fame

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    Do me a favor, when you spread your non-factual information about me, please don't reference any of my other alias's because TWF only pays me for my chalk posts. Thanks precious.
     
    #47
  48. tennis5

    tennis5 Professional

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    Appreciate the post and all the details. Wish I could respond more, but at work.
    So this will be short. :)

    You skipped over the point that the USTA cut tournaments due to "missing school", but Winter Nats was over Xmas break.
    Yes, I understand that some folks want to celebrate Xmas at home,
    but they are not obligated to play and can enjoy the holiday at home.
    College coaches were present at the 16's and 18's in Arizona, and the MAJORITY of juniors want to play college tennis,
    so that is a huge loss.


    In regards to cold weather, we can't play every day due to the cost.
    So, we don't get rained out, but I would say juniors average 3-4 days a week.

    Also, just a note - you state in regards to clays above - "So they reinstated it back to it's original spot as a 128."
    No, they cut it to 128.

    Wildcards - well, you mentioned some of the strange wc that kids receive and nothing is done with them, but anger kids who are #2 on the list, and some kid who is #40 skipped right by them.
    But, to take it a step further, if the whole new plan is based on EARNED ADVANCEMENT,
    well then increasing wildcards doesn't fly with that reasoning.

    Now, and this is an important point, if the new tournaments ( with all the points and perks)
    are 32 kids or 16 kids, and perhaps up to 40% of them are wild card in
    ( based on the 2nd USTA proposal ),
    (and again, there is no FINAL info on the wildcards, so this info is based on that proposal),
    it seems inherently unfair.
    And I know life is unfair, and get use to it........
    But, still kids we are talking about it.
    And there was some head scratching on some of the wc chosen over the past few years.

    I strongly, strongly, disagree about the 12's not participating as much.
    10 and under competition is gone, so the kids are waiting till the 12's now.
    I think the USTA already tried reducing the 12's years ago, and it didn't work,
    so why do it again? They ended up having to reverse themselves.
    There is no proven track history to support that decision that reducing competition or eliminating in the 12's helps improve junior tennis.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2012
    #48
  49. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

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    OK Chalk, or are you logged on as Tennis5? Wait, check your screen name, now reply. You two are big fakes.
     
    #49
  50. chalkflewup

    chalkflewup Hall of Fame

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    My good man, Sherlock Holmes you definitely are not. Like I said, my ego is too large to hide behind an alias. Your feeble attempt to discredit me is junior varsity at best. If the forum truly believes your accusation to be true, have them speak up and I'll quietly leave. Nevermind.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2012
    #50

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