Petition to the Grand Slam Tournaments

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by Anonymous, Apr 18, 2004.

  1. Anonymous

    Anonymous Professional

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    Ok, since all the Gran Slams are making the men's and women's purses equal, I've decided for a petition. It's a load of Bull*hit. Women play best of 3 set matches, and most of the scores are like 6-0, 6-2. Look at the men's draw, look at the depth and talent. Last year, at the French Open the defending champion Albert Costa was taken to five sets by a journeyman in the first round. Let's see if Serena loses 5 games against her first round opponent. MY PROPOSAL IS TO HAVE THE TOP 50 WOMEN PLAY THE TOP 50 MEN. (Federer vs Henin-Hardene, Roddick vs Clijsters, etc..) Each match winner gets $20,000 for their gender. At the end, see the results and put up the prize money, YIPEE! The only woman I'd be rooting for is Maria!! Final prize money would be one 2 million for the men, zero for the women. Yeah, that's right. Too bad this'll never happen......
     
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  2. pound cat

    pound cat G.O.A.T.

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    I'm so disappointed (mild description) in the women's tennis, this actually sounds like a good idea
     
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  3. Anonymous

    Anonymous Professional

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    No other replies to this hard-thought out idea??
     
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  4. ucd_ace

    ucd_ace Semi-Pro

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    So what if people don't think it's justified (I, for one, don't), who cares? It's not like men are going to start jumping ship for women's tennis. Get over it.
     
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  5. WW Volley

    WW Volley Rookie

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    Women deserve equal pay. They are human beings playing the exact same sport.

    A champion is a champion, no matter what gender.
     
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  6. Phil

    Phil Hall of Fame

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    That's stretching it.
     
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  7. Deuce

    Deuce Banned

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    A not so parallel universe...
    It is not the "exact same sport" - simply because the women spend less time and less effort playing it. Does a woman exert as much energy playing best of 3 sets as a man does in playing best of 5 sets, given the relative strengths and energies of each gender? What about several best of 3 set matches for the women over a 2 week period compared to several best of 5 set matches over the same period for the men?

    And, of course, there's also the question of parity. A disturbingly large percentage of women's matches have the loser winning less than 5 games. Does this effort compare to an average men's match?

    We'll talk "exactly the same game" when the time spent on court and the effort spent is exactly the same.
     
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  8. baseliner

    baseliner Professional

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    I'm a human being and I play exactly the same game as the women. After my next league match please send me my check. Please! Humanity and the sport are not the issue.
     
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  9. WW Volley

    WW Volley Rookie

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    Yes, Baseliner, they are the same issue.

    There's this attitude that gets spread that women are second class citizens, including sports. There's a reason women make less money for the equal job in businesses, and recieve far fewer promotions.

    Because of attitudes expressed on these boards are far more consistent among men then you think. As men we have been born into a privledged world from day one... a world that perfers us. Is the idea of women making the same amount of money threatening?

    I simply don't understand why one champion should get less than another champion at the same tournament. This is always discussed among the boys club around here, and I'm always in the vast minority.

    But if you fellas can't see that women put in the same time, effort, and commitment to the sport as the men then you are wearing testosterone blinders.
     
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  10. WW Volley

    WW Volley Rookie

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    And I realized what you guys want...

    You want the women to play like men. Well they are women, and born that way, not by choice. Let's call their tennis sucky and pay them less... that seems fitting...
     
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  11. Bhagi Katbamna

    Bhagi Katbamna Hall of Fame

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    I think the women are actually getting paid too much for the effort and tennis that I see.
     
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  12. @wright

    @wright Hall of Fame

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    I agree that women's tennis matches usually suck, but there really isn't a way to compare how much energy is expended by a woman playing 3 sets compared to a man playing 5. If they did play 5, most of the time they would just be 5 set blowouts and would probably get worse and worse as the match went on.
     
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  13. Verbal_Kint

    Verbal_Kint Rookie

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    I don't think the women spend as much energy as the men. Everywhere I hear they pay less attention to rackets and I see quite some women who have technical flaws in their games. All this is a lot less common or almost non-existent with the men.

    Marnix
     
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  14. perfmode

    perfmode Hall of Fame

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    Women try so hard to be considered equal but they really don't like to prove it. If they are equal(which I believe they are), the should play 5 sets just like the men.
     
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  15. TS Ramesh

    TS Ramesh Guest

    I think women should get equal pay for equal work. So rather than campaign for paying the WTA players less (which somehow seems unegalitarian and small-minded), I'd like to petition the Grand Slams to make the women's format the same as the men's. Why should we denigrate the women by assuming they are incapable of playing best of 5 sets? They are perfectly capable of it, just as there are women who are perfectly capable of successfully running the Boston Marathon. Making the women work as much as the men automatically puts to bed the argument that they do not deserve equal pay.

    Ramesh
     
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  16. joe sch

    joe sch Hall of Fame

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    It should be a business decision that is made by each tournament. They should be able to allocate prize money based on historical revenues for each tournament : MS, WS, MD, WD & mixed and with adjustments for expected income for the upcoming tournament. Why should tournaments be pressured to pay equal prize money ? The stars in both mens & ladies are already compensated for just showing up so this really helps equalize any unfair prize monies. If tournaments are politically forced to offer equal prize money then I believe you will see more pullouts since the appearance monies will have to be adjusted accordingly. Im really surprised it is as close as it currently is now given all the good unequality arguments and financial justification reasons.
     
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  17. nomalt

    nomalt New User

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    come on man...do we really care what someone else makes?

    if so, let's start it up on other entertainers...like actors!! matt leblanc and courtney cox make 1 million for each espisode of 'friends'.
     
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  18. M C

    M C New User

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    The fact is, women are second class citizens in sports. Men get paid the most because traditionally people wanted to see men's tennis. On the business side of tennis there is a much greater demand for men's matches, except maybe when the Williams sisters attracted all that hype a few years ago. Men earn the money on the tour, or am I really mistaken?


    Look at the other sports, women make tidbits of what men make. It is fair, considering people in other professions get paid based on how well they do their job. If a woman is better at something than a man, she should get the job or make more money. But men are better than women at tennis, and they play longer, more competitive matches. Nothing is completely fair, and it is clear men deserve more. Women can play tennis, but to echo what has been pointed out in this topic-their matches are more one-sided, they play shorter matches, and the quality of the game is less.


    To illustrate this, look at the tours now. It is obvious the men's is better, no one can argue this because of one reason. Men are not allowed on the women's tour, but if there ever was a women who was really good she could probably try out the men's game, and she would never win. Look at golf and Michelle Wie to prove this point.
     
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  19. lajollatnsplyr

    lajollatnsplyr New User

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    ww volley...if what your saying is right then the WNBA players should get paid as much as the NBA?? Same sport...

    I believe the prize money should be given to the players that bring in ticket sales. What makes the tourny more money?? the mens game or the womens game?
    Base the prize money on this.
    I am watching the Monte Carlo tourny on TV...there are so many great 1st round matchs...never see that on the womens side. Maybe in the next ten years the womens game will be more competitive...
     
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  20. Petra Martinnen

    Petra Martinnen Rookie

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    Even now in "big babe" age an average size of top 100 WTA is like 5'7" 140 pounds. Muscle development is unlike guys too. Guys, we do get your point how they aren't as strong and fast as guys. And we get that point that you find them lousy and don't care to watch and think thye shgould not earn too much. True too most gals do not even read this board and few bother to post up. However some enjoy watching the best like Alison Fisher in pool, Marion Jones, Trish Johnson (bowling) Michelle Kwan (skating), Serena, Mauresmo etc in tennis., Taurasi (basketball) and more. We know they all "suck" and can't top guys and should not be paid much. This fact you have all made so clear. For some of you it makes you happy to know your sex is the physical one. But for one second do you think the world of sport and tennis would be better off if Evert, Martina , Hingis, Jenifer, Graf, Serena, Goolagong, Seles and the all the lousy support cast had never played pro?! mybe riggs hsould have detpryed King to keep things normal? Same in all sports. Would Olympics be better like olden days when almost no gals showed up? After all they aren't teally the best in any sport, so why bother? Is that the vision for our future? No gals in military (too weak), no police, no CEO's (too irrritable), no pro athletes (no talent), but as housewives, moms and sex partners!
    do youthin gals anywhere would play if no women were stars andthere was no pro possibility? The game is different and many like it and even some prefer it. but seaosn after season most posts on WTA are liek most of these. thisia major tennis cenre too and we get this dumpinon the top pros becaue even they "suck so bad itit pain to watch." If you have daughters who have interest or ability, be sure and voice this lovely view. I must be insane as I like to watch Russina gals who can't serve more than Roddick who can.
     
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  21. Petra Martinnen

    Petra Martinnen Rookie

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    So you are once alerting the world to fact that gals are not worth watching in the sport. Are there any sports you find their contribution worthy? Bake offs? Mopping competiton? Wet T shirt
    Open? Nude beach volleyball? X rate film sport? Is this 2004 or 1964? Lets petition to REDUCE pay for top female sport even the #1 pro sport for money, tennis! We already learn how Sorenstam could not make a hand picked cut in PGA. she sucks too, correct? Were you all rooting against her? Be as it may, I am pretty sure that most of you how didn't play high college game would not hope to beat a #150 level pro gal. And she only wins $50,000 a year.
     
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  22. Anonymous

    Anonymous Professional

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    Man, I could beat a #150 girl blindfolded with my hands tied behind my back and I'm 14 and make $0.00 a year.
     
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  23. Verbal_Kint

    Verbal_Kint Rookie

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    Petra, I'm not saying I don't like to see the women play because they are worse then the men. I find most matches boring because they aren't really a match at all. I want competitiveness, and I want differing styles of play. Just about all the girls play alike, when I think a good S&V player would have a great chance of dominating (look at Tauziat, who didn't have a great serve, no great groundstrokes and not even spectacular volleys but got a great ranking).

    I want to see some thinking on court and more close matches. Henin is about the only woman capable of playing all-court tennis today, while just about any man in the top 100 has a decent volley and WILL come in on a short ball.

    Once again, I don't mind a 'lesser' level, but there is no excuse for technical flaws when you play tennis full time.

    Marnix
     
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  24. Phil

    Phil Hall of Fame

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    MaSha, we all know what you "beat" and who you beat it to; you aren't fooling anyone.

    Petra, are you writing in some kind of code?
     
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  25. david aames

    david aames Professional

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    **Petra takes this as a compliment**
     
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  26. bigserving

    bigserving Semi-Pro

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    WW Volley,

    A couple of points. Are you just being defensive or do you REALLY believe that every player in a major event should be paid the same because they are playing the same game?

    Do you think that Juniors and Seniors should all be paid the same as the men? If not, where and whay do you draw the line?

    What equality means to me is equal opportunity. The women have that. Whe women's tour is what it is. The tour should be marketed to the best of their ability. They deserve what revenue their game can generate whether it be less than, equal to, or more than the men.

    The WTA tour should be marketed in a way that emphasizes the positive things about the tour. If the best that they can do is to try to convince people that the WTA is the same as the ATP, they will continue to struggle. People are just not that stupid to ever believe that they are the same. Personally, I think that the WTA can be more entertaining to the casual fan that Men's tennis.

    In golf, after Tiger Woods, I would much rather watch women play than men. Watching Phil (man breast) Mickelson hit a golf ball does nothing for me.

    When the WTA gets its act together and generates more money than men, will you then say that the men deserve the same money as the women?
     
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  27. tennis*bill

    tennis*bill New User

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    It is not equal work for equal pay as long as women play fewer sets than the men. And yes, earning the same amount for a 45 minute route in the first round for a woman, while a 4 hour marathon for the man results in the same $ amount earned is insane. We can't help the fact that the women's tour is that weak that this happens every round. There are very few merits for watching women's tennis anymore, even past the quarters.
     
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  28. WW Volley

    WW Volley Rookie

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    No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying if it is the same tournament, it should be the same pay. Win the US Open, you get the same pay... man or woman. All other tournaments that are only affliated with one tour can pay whatever they want according to their business model. But I feel offering men more money for the same championship is an insult.


    I believe that if men and women are playing in the same tournament, the pay scale should be equal through each round. Say it's $50,000 for the 3rd round. Well both men and women should get that same pay. That's what I'm saying.

    If the WTA were making more money then the men overall, I think that would reflect in their tournaments... as it does in the mens. My main issue lies in the tournaments that host both men and women. The rest of the tournaments can do what is best for them as a business.

    I just don't like the message it sends to us a society where we only hold men as having the quality to earn the most money. That makes no sense to me, as I see women day in and day out struggling their best to get better. Despite what some posters here think, they work as hard as they can to fill in their game... alas, they were not blessed with the body of a man which can do everything easier.

    I attented a college that had a nationally ranked womens and mens tennis team. And while the men would blow the women out of the water, the women worked just as hard as the men, if not harder. The coach was relentless, they were training all year, and their practice schedule was intense. Great players, great hitters, and simply a great drive. None of them are good enough to get on the WTA tour for a living, unfortunately.

    But they all have my vote for an equal paycheck for doing the same tournament. Hope that makes sense.
     
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  29. ProStaffTour90

    ProStaffTour90 Rookie

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    I don't think that the women should be paid less AT FIRST, first they should have to play 5 sets, i don't think any of them would reject it, because that would just blow they're own argument out, i'd love to see the women begging the organiser's to put it back to 3 sets, THEN they can decrease the prize-money!!!
     
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  30. pound cat

    pound cat G.O.A.T.

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    Professional tennis is a business. This business is to attract paying spectators/sponsors/advertisers. ie money. Whoever can generate more profit ATP or WTA should be paid more. Very simple.
     
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  31. WW Volley

    WW Volley Rookie

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    Then in that case, the Williams sisters should have been recieving much larger pay checks than Hewitt, Ferrero, Federer, etc...

    But now that would cause a few people on these boards to go into a coma. And I don't want that. You know, not a long coma. I kid, I kid.
     
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  32. Tennisute

    Tennisute New User

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    Having watched the outer courts for 2 days at Indian Wells I was amazed at the effort most women put forth. Pistoli played her ass off, you have to give credit no matter what they weigh or how much muscle mass.

    Loit is a freakin' fighter, I sat next to her coach as she was getting tight late in her match. The look on her face was unforgettable, you talk about wanting to find a way to win!

    Duchy somehow found a way to get into the later rounds, you have to appreciate the effort. Could you and I endure 10 days of pressure?

    Point? Tennis is tennis, just pay your monies and enjoy it. All the players in a major are at such a high level, all have bad days but I'll watch women anytime just to learn the will to win.
     
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  33. bigserving

    bigserving Semi-Pro

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    WW Volley

    I don't see it that way at all. If that were the case, there would be NO women's tour at all! I think that it says to society even though you are not the BEST, you may still participate in any way that you are able, work hard, be creative, and best of luck to you.

    But, it is NOT only about working hard. If it were, let's pay everyone (Juniors, Seniors, Wheelchair players) the same for playing tennis at the US OPEN.

    Maybe this will help explain my position further. I love hamburgers, I can literally eat them at every meal, love em! I can get delicious gourmet burgers at dozens of places. However, I have plenty of stock in McDonalds. Why? Because McDonalds markets it's product and service for what it is and makes me plenty of money doing it.

    I don't know of one human being, including me, who would say that McDonalds is THE BEST burger around yet, they make the most money (and please don't argue that it's because of the fries!)

    Should other burger joints argue that they should make the same amount of money as McDonalds because they make a better burger? Of course not. Each entity is free to market their product in any way in which they have the means and best of luck to all of them.

    Unlike the moron who wrote this post, I have no problem with the women making even more than the male players. But find a way to earn it on their own! Don't just say they deserve more because the men are getting more. THAT tells society that women are not capable of prospering on their own and need to gravy-train off of the success of men.

    Is that what you are saying?
     
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  34. fastdunn

    fastdunn Legend

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    I have a feeling that WTA actually attract a lot more
    spectators/revenue than one might think.
    In general, women's tennis has much poor quality matches
    but it produces a lot more star palyer match ups.
    A lot of women also watches women's tennis.
    These are not really the case in WNBA.
    So I think top WTA players are well-deserved to get
    these high income.

    Having an equal pay in gland slam is more of a political issue
    than any other issue (I don't think it's right/wrong issue).
    As I remember, Japan Open used to pay something like
    one fifth of men's prize money for women (So top WTA players
    used to avoid it). Now that's clear sexual discrimination, IMO...
     
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  35. WW Volley

    WW Volley Rookie

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    First of bigserving... I'm a vegetarian, lol.

    Kidding aside...

    You seemed to go into effort a little much. Notice in my previous posts I said the payscale should be equal at the tournaments that house men and women. Would you really say the mens and womens tour are so radically different you would compare women with wheelchair players?

    Anyway...

    Your argument seems to be that the men generate all the money, so they should get the money. But that statement isn't entirely true. I dare you to look up ratings of the Wimbledon finals that had Federer and Hewitt in them the past 2 years, then look up the Williams sisters ratings. You'll find out that consistently, the Williams have had stronger ratings than any foreign players. Even the recent Roddick/Ferrero US Open was a flop.

    The last event for the men that did respectable in ratings was 2002 US Open with Agassi vs. Sampras.

    These boards are NOT an accurate cross-section of the average public. And most advertisers aren't interested in advertising to strictly our small nitch of people here. So in that sense, the perception of these boards is slanted...

    Finally, I'll end with a quote from my education professor...
    "I don't follow tennis closely, but when I do watch I like the women's game. They don't hit ace after ace, and the rallys last longer. I don't want to see two guys slamming balls down each other's throat for 2 hours... boring. I want to see people hitting the ball."

    Not saying he's right, but that's a very common opinion among people who are not big enough fans to post on boards like these.
     
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