PHOTOS of FEDERER's personal PROSTAFF TOUR 90 from MAY 2003

Discussion in 'Pros' Racquets and Gear' started by jimbo333, Apr 5, 2013.

  1. jimbo333

    jimbo333 Hall of Fame

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    Here is a photo of Roger Federer's personal Prostaff Tour 90 racket from May 2003. I will be doing some more photos in the next few weeks, I apologise for only having the one photo at the moment. It was thought that Federer was using the retail version of the Prostaff Tour 90 during this time, but it was actually a customized personal Federer racket, only with the same mold/string pattern and strangely the same long grip as the retail version.

    This custom racket has his printed signature on one side, it has no rough grey paint around the edges of the grommet channel around the hoop (the retail version has the rough paint), and has a Fairway leather grip. It has a small amount of lead tape at about 11 and 1 o'clock on the hoop, and there are marks inside the throat on both sides, indicating possibly quite large amount of lead tape has been removed (or maybe a couple of large stickers). It is a grip size 3, and the buttcap has no 3 letter code on it at all. By the way the racket does not have the original strings.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I've been looking into this racket for ages, and it has been difficult to find out information, but have now done extensive research. So finally decided to start a thread on this racket. This is the only one of these I've ever seen. Others have the later custom 90 from later in 2003, but not this earlier Spring 2003 version.

    For the previous year i.e for most of 2002 up to and including March 2003. Federer was using a custom 90 racket with the HPS 6.0 paintjob (with yellow "w"'s, and with 4 string holes in the PWS). Federer was a major hope for Wilson and was getting personally made/customized rackets since the beginning of 2002. By then he was getting batches of rackets for each part of the tennis season (like he does now), early hardcourt, clay, grass, summer hardcourt, late season WTF etc.

    In Spring 2003 Wilson decided to use the Prostaff Tour 90 paintjob on Federer's batch of rackets for the Spring 2003 clay court season. Strangely though rather than just putting the paintjob on his previous custom 90 racket (with 4 holes in PWS) he had been using for the last 12 months, they made for him a new customized racket which replicated the retail version of the Prostaff Tour 90 in looks almost exactly.

    So Federer's Spring 2003 racket had the same mold, same string pattern (with 5 holes in the PWS), and most strange of all the same long grip as the retail version of the Prostaff Tour 90 racket, only with Federer's printed signature on one side on his custom frames, and no rough grey paint surrounding the grommet channel (the retail version has the rough grey paint). I don't know why they replicated the retail version so closely? Maybe Federer liked the feeling of the new retail version itself, when testing new customized rackets, and wanted something similar? Or maybe Wilson wanted his frame, in looks at least, to be as similar as possible to the retail version? I would like to know the reason for this if anybody actually knows please?

    Anyway Federer used this racket for the whole of the Spring 2003 clay court season it seems. He used these for the whole of May, starting in Munich where he actually won, and then in Rome where he reached the final, but then he only reached the 3rd round in Hamburg, and then got knocked out of the 1st round at the French Open. That was the last time he used these rackets, as he then switched to his batch of rackets for the Grass court 2003 season, which had the Prostaff Tour 90 paintjob on his previous custom 90 frame (with 4 holes in the PWS, shorter grip), and used this racket type through until the Spring of 2004 (mid May), when he changed to the N90 paintjob. This custom version is still the basic same mold as the retail Prostaff Tour 90 (different holes pattern), which was the first retail racket to have the same basic mold (with different holes pattern) as his customized rackets. Obviously the K90 in 2007 was the first time the exact mold and string/holes pattern (with 4 holes in the PWS) of his custom 90 racket was released as a retail racket. I hope this all makes sense.

    If anybody has anymore information about this racket, please let me know.



    Interesting threads for reference regarding Federer racket specs:-

    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=101074
    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=246366
    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=347886
    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=450504

    Especially how his fully modified/leaded/strung/with overgrip etc weight varies over the years from about 372-362g but Swingweight is always about 350 it seems.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2013
    #1
  2. Lavs

    Lavs Professional

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    I started playing tennis seriously in 2002 using this racket. And used it till 2006 (when switched on iPrestige Mid). It really grew on me. Absolutely loved it.
     
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  3. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    Maybe for contract/money reasons, Federer was doing Wilson a favor to try the denser sweetspot (5 hole PWS) along with the longer grip? And when he bombed out of the the French Open, he's had enough?

    I personally didn't care for the denser sweetspot Tour 90s (PS Tour 90 and the nCode 90).
     
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  4. ART ART

    ART ART Semi-Pro

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    Can you please post the specs of that racket?

    Thank's
     
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  5. フェデラー

    フェデラー Hall of Fame

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    What leather grip is Federer using now? I see that P1 has their own leather grips but I am curious as to whether or not they are rebranded, or made by priority one.
     
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  6. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Hmmm....the PS Tour 90 was first released for sale to the public in the Spring of 2003 (I remember when it came out), so how could you have been using it since 2002? :confused:
     
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  7. jimbo333

    jimbo333 Hall of Fame

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    Yes that could be it. Federer obviously liked the denser sweetspot initially in May, winning on clay and then getting to a final, but then after 2 early losses (including that first round loss at the French), he obviously had enough of it. He only used that denser sweetspot in May 2003.

    Of course there could be many reasons why he started using it. It's just very strange that he used the longer grip, as May 2003 is the only time he used the longer grip on one of his rackets!
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2013
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  8. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    But how do you know that this is not the same as the retail version underneath? Things like his signature, rough paint, etc. are just cosmetic and the Fairway leather grip just means that's what his stringer put on after molding his handle. But since it has the same string spacing (5 crosses at PWS) and longer handle pallet as the retail version, how can you be sure it's not actually the same frame as the retail version?
     
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  9. jimbo333

    jimbo333 Hall of Fame

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    Yes I will post the basic specs, when I've measured them over the next couple of weeks.
     
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  10. jimbo333

    jimbo333 Hall of Fame

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    I don't know what is under the paint. It could be the same as the retail version under the cosmetic differences. But it also could be a different layup. I don't know, and I'm not going to be cutting it open to find out. I will measure the specs, but that will only tell us so much.
     
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  11. faultfoot

    faultfoot Rookie

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    Jimbo, another great racket. Thanks for sharing. Looking forward to seeing more pics of this frame.

    This racket reminds me immediately of the Japanese Signature Edition of the retail N90. All the visible hallmarks of a retail spec racket - 5 cross string holes at the PWS, long handle, short neck, etc.) but with Fed's signature.

    Now I wonder if Japan ever sold a retail Fed signature version of the Tour 90 (?) If I'm correct, no.

    Also, I noticed you made an interesting observation of Federer's custom frame with regard to the lack of "rough texture" that retail frames possessed. I retrieved my retail Tour 90 to make sure of what you meant. If I'm not mistaken (and correct me if I'm wrong), you are referring to the gray-colored, sandy, rough texture that is painted on the side of retail Tour 90 frames. So, I did some quuick research to see if Federer actually sported PJs with this gray-colored, sandy texture like the retail ones have. My results - the vast majority of the photos depict Federer in fact using a Tour 90 (custom or retail spec) without this rough texture. However, I did find some photos with Federer using rackets with this rough texture. Here are some photos that show this:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    It seems it was Federer's personal preference that his rackets were smooth throughout? Maybe superstition? Or maybe the pro room just sent him some custom Tour 90s with the rough texture and some without. I guess we'll never really know.

    But it would be interesting and unique to see a Federer custom Tour 90 with this rough texture as it seems Federer predominantly used ones without a rough texture. You mentioned you had another custom Tour 90. Does this one happen to have the rough texture? If so, that would be very rare.
     
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  12. jimbo333

    jimbo333 Hall of Fame

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    Cheers, and I've only got one of these custom Tour90's in this paintjob, the one in the photo above. I originally wondered if it might be a Japanese retail issue, but such a racket doesn't exist with this paintjob. It is definitely one of Federer's personal custom rackets used in May 2003.

    Also, sorry, but i think you are wrong about those photos, it is just a trick of the light I think. I'm quite sure having looked at lots of these photos, that Federer only used the custom Tour90's without the rough grey paint!
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2013
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  13. faultfoot

    faultfoot Rookie

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    Calling on Equijet! :)


    For some reason, I read that you also had a custom Tour 90 with the 4 holes in the PWS and long neck/shaft that. My mistake.

    I've also poured through countless photos and have seen examples (such as the pics I posted) with Fed using a custom Tour 90 with what appears to gray-colored rough texture. To my eyes, the rough texture is very apparent and not just a trick of the light. But then again, I can't be 100% sure either (since I haven't held or seen actual close-up photos of such a frame) so I won't blatantly say that I am correct.

    Does anyone here own a custom Federer Tour 90 PJ with 4 holes in the PWS, long neck, short grip, Fed signature, etc. that can shed more light on this subject?

    We already know Federer used the PJs with no rough texture, but if anyone here has one with the rough texture we can ultimately put this issue to rest.

    Dare I say the infamous Equijet would have such a frame?? :)
     
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  14. RFRF

    RFRF Semi-Pro

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    Look at my post. I got Rogers racquet!!
     
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  15. faultfoot

    faultfoot Rookie

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    Stunning!

    I just sent you an email with a question re: your racket. Thanks, RFRF
     
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  16. jimbo333

    jimbo333 Hall of Fame

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    Sorry for the confusion, I was referring to someone else who had recently got one of these (only the later in 2003 version i think), and I think he just posted above this reply.

    Well as you said we know his May 2003 racket definitely didn't have the rough paint. As for his June 2003-mid May 2004 rackets, I'm still 90% sure they also never had the rough paint, but more evidence is needed. As you say maybe Equijet can help?
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2013
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  17. roundiesee

    roundiesee Hall of Fame

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    Thanks OP, great post! I look at that paint job and wondered what went wrong for Wilson? That surely is the most gorgeous paint job ever for a Wilson. Now compare that to the Steam and Juice, LOL!
     
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  18. jimbo333

    jimbo333 Hall of Fame

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    Yes I know, I saw your thread, you've got the later version than mine i.e the June 2003 - mid May 2004 version (4 holes in the PWS, shorter grip), very nice:)

    I asked you this before, but maybe you didn't see it. Can you please let me know, does your racket have the rough grey paint around the edge of the grommet channel?
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2013
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  19. jimbo333

    jimbo333 Hall of Fame

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    Cheers, I will do some more photos next week. I agree Wilson did some great looking rackets at this time. I also really like the Hyper ProStaffs, which have a great almost Lichtenstein look to them, and that's the artist not the country lol:)
     
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  20. jimbo333

    jimbo333 Hall of Fame

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    If you find out any more info, please post here!
     
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  21. jimbo333

    jimbo333 Hall of Fame

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    These 2 photos show no rough grey paint around the grommet channel, and no 3 digit code on the buttcap.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2013
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  22. RFRF

    RFRF Semi-Pro

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    It looks normal. Send me a email and ill send u the photos of that side view.
     
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  23. フェデラー

    フェデラー Hall of Fame

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    Are we sure that there never was a Japan exclusive tour 90?
    I just came across a 4-hole PWS Pro Staff Tour 90 with rough gray paint for sale on Japanese website. The racket also had roger's signature on it (like the Japan only n90 signature edition).
    By the description which I translated, it did not say whether or not it was Roger's racket, just that it was customized for Roger.
     
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  24. faultfoot

    faultfoot Rookie

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    Can you please post pics of this racket?
     
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  25. フェデラー

    フェデラー Hall of Fame

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    Sure. Sorry they are so small, these are the images the site uploaded.

    You can count that there are only 4 holes on the PWS.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  26. faultfoot

    faultfoot Rookie

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    Thank you very much.

    Very rare frame, indeed! All the hallmarks of the custom Federer Tour 90 from mid-2003 to 2004. 4 holes in the PWS, long shaft/neck, and Federer signature. Plus, the rough, sandy, grey-colored texture on the racket (similar to the action photos of Fed I posted above that appear to indicate this).

    I got my answer now.

    Wonderful pics. Thanks again for sharing.
     
    #26
  27. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Post the specs
     
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  28. フェデラー

    フェデラー Hall of Fame

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    Sadly the website that posted the pictures did not post any specs. I believe they already sold the frame as well.
    They are a small tennis memorabilia shop in japan called Liberty Cross.
    They do currently have Steffi Graf's Wilson ProStaff 7.1, Maria's Youtek IG Instinct and O3 Speedport Black, as well as countless others rackets, like Azarenka, Nishikori, Kournikova, even Borg and Navratilova.
     
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  29. faultfoot

    faultfoot Rookie

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    Do you happen to remember the final sale price (in USD) of this Fed custom Tour 90?
     
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  30. jimbo333

    jimbo333 Hall of Fame

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    Brilliant thanks, I just sent you a message, am looking forward to seeing the photos.
     
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  31. フェデラー

    フェデラー Hall of Fame

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    Nah. All of the prices for things like rackets you need to ask for yourself. Under Roger's it said "pre-sold", assuming that means someone already got a hold of it. Really beautiful though. Japan does seem to get a lot of special rackets, from the signature edition Ncode to all of the Kei-Spec rackets, as well as the steam pro 95 which is not available in America (I've been debating buying one just for fun). I also saw on Yahoo Japan Auctions an 85 sq. in. Prostaff with HPS paint job. I believe the person was asking 3-4 grand for it. Maybe if I was fabfed's money I would have bought it:):):)
     
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  32. faultfoot

    faultfoot Rookie

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    I see. Thanks for letting me/us know. I appreciate it.
     
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  33. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Do you mean the HyperProStaff 6.0 85 that was sold only in Japan or the PS 6.0 85 Original with the PS Tour 90 paint job pro stock surplus that TW sold here about 7-8 years ago? If the latter, You could have bought one from TW for around $130.
     
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  34. フェデラー

    フェデラー Hall of Fame

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    Hyper Prostaff 6.0 85. Had no idea these were available in Japan. Those would be quite nice to own.
    But I'm not entirely sure. What I saw was an 85 sq inch Hyper Pro Staff, I can't remember if it was with silver or yellow w's though.
    It was exactly like the one Roger used in 2002 though.

    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=440123

    Here is actually the thread I made about the racket which you commented on.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2013
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  35. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Actually, that's not the racquet I was referring to. The racquet in your thread is a standard PS 6.0 85 but with the red and yellow HPS 6.0 95 Tour paintjob that Wilson gave to sponsored pros, like Federer.

    The Hyper ProStaff 6.0 85 I was referring to was a retail racquet sold in Japan that was a PS 6.0 85 Original with the addition on HyperCarbon in its layup and had the same cosmetic as the 6.0 Original with the addition of "W" logos at 2 and 10 on he hoop.

    This one: http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=122016&p=1330262

    [​IMG]


    BTW, there was also a Hyper ProStaff 6.0 85 with a PS Classic paintjob:

    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=297532

    [​IMG]

    Not sure if this was sold only in Japan but it wouldn't surprise me if it was, since they also sold in Japan a PS 6.0 85 Original (NOT Hyper) with the PS Classic paintjob (without the Hyper graphics) that was slightly lighter than the standard PS 6.0 85 Original (I guess you can call it an "Asian version).
     
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  36. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Just noticed that there's actually one of these for sale on the big auction site right now for anyone that is interested. Item #330903597595
     
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  37. jimbo333

    jimbo333 Hall of Fame

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    I said I'm sure there was never a Japanese retail exclusive in the paintjob I've got in my original post. There might be a later Japanese retail Federer PSTour90 like the one you showed a photo of, but I doubt it.

    That one you've shown does look like one of Federer's personal frames. Fantastic find by the way, really great that people look for these things and then post the info. on here, brilliant stuff:)
     
    #37
  38. jimbo333

    jimbo333 Hall of Fame

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    Absolutely superb, thanks for finding photos of this:)
     
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  39. jimbo333

    jimbo333 Hall of Fame

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    This definitely looks like the Federer PSTour90 from June2003-May2004. But as we've agreed most of those rackets we've seen photos of do not have the rough grey paint around the grommet channels. It makes this racket in the photo very rare, but maybe not the exact version used by Federer in competition, although it probably was used by him sometimes. Equijet has many slightly different actual Federer racket paintjobs that were never actually used by Federer in competition. The fact is we don't yet know exactly which version Federer used June2003-May2004, we need more evidence. Maybe he used a few different rackets then? Maybe Equijet knows? It's good fun trying to find this out though:)
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2013
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  40. jimbo333

    jimbo333 Hall of Fame

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    Sounds like an amazing shop, there is nothing like that in London unfortunately:(
     
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  41. jimbo333

    jimbo333 Hall of Fame

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    Here are 2 photos showing the positioning of the very small amount of lead tape at 11 and 1 o'clock near the top of the hoop of the racket, one small lead strip on one side and one on the other. See further down the page for details.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2013
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  42. jimbo333

    jimbo333 Hall of Fame

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    Interesting to see the specs, and how they will compare to mine!
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2013
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  43. jimbo333

    jimbo333 Hall of Fame

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    Just to check, I've had another look through about 1000 Federer photos from June 2003-mid May2004, and I've seen about 30 photos where I'm sure he has no rough grey paint around the grommets, and I've seen 0 photos where I'm sure his rackets have the rough grey paint. Again I'm not saying none of his rackets had the grey paint, I just havn't seen any definite photo evidence of him using one with this rough grey paint around the grommets.

    In that top photo I'm sure it's the trick of the light, it is black at the start of the grommet strip, but grey actually just above the grip (there is no rough grey paint there even on a retail racket) and around the grommets. So I'm sure it just looks grey at those points due to reflected light.

    In the photo below, I think that is from Wimbledon June or July 2003, I still think it is probably reflected light (edge is facing upwards towards the sun) as other photos I've seen there definitely have no rough grey paint on his rackets. But with this one you could well be right as it does look grey there, it might be rough grey paint, but I can't tell definitely from that photo.

    We really need more evidence, has anyone got a clear close-up photo of his racket while Federer is playing a match using this PSTour90 racket during June 2003 to mid May 2004 with rough grey paint around the grommet channel please?
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2013
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  44. faultfoot

    faultfoot Rookie

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    I completely respect and understand your assessment. You are also correct in that the vast majority of the photos available on the web (that I've seen, at least) indicate that Federer's custom Tour 90 did not feature the rough gray paint.

    To me, the issue is whether some of Federer's custom Tour 90 had rough gray paint.

    My conclusion is as follows: Federer's custom Tour 90 actually came with paint/aesthetic variations. I believe Wilson issued custom Tour 90s to Federer that did not have rough gray paint and some that did have rough gray paint.

    Here's another way to look at my line of reasoning. Using the US legal system as an model, I would make the case to see whether there is enough evidence, circumstantial and/or direct, to deduce whether such a fact exists. I/we want to know is whether Federer did in fact have some custom Tour 90s with the rough gray paint.

    We have circumstantial evidence in the form of the photos I provided that indicate that Federer was seen using his custom Tour 90 with rough gray paint. Reasonable individuals can agree or disagree whether this evidence is incontrovertible.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    An additional argument can be made that it is well within the realm of possibility is that Wilson – technically, the pro room, could have issued Federer Tour 90s that featured minor, varying aesthetics. For example, we know Federer sported rackets with both the silver and yellow Ws PJs to resemble the HPS 6.1 and 6.0 line of rackets. We also know that Federer sported both black W and silver W PJs on his custom N Code 90 frames. Even the K Factors PJs Federer used varied in terms of graphics, e.g., the "Karbon Black" vs. "Karophite Black" graphics. And there are other examples of aesthetic/graphics variations on other Federer custom frames that exist as well. As such, it is also possible that Federer's custom Tour 90s did have varying graphics/aesthetics with respect to the rough gray paint.

    Continuing this line of thinking, based on the above, it is also very possible that Federer may have used such a racket in match play with a graphic variation. Even if one disregards the photos I posted showing what appears to be a rough gray paint aesthetic, it is possible that Federer's inventory included such an aesthetic variation. As we know, Federer always walked on court with more than one frame in his bag and he liked to change frames mid-match. So, it is possible that one of his stockpile of frames featured this aesthetic variation.

    With all that said, is all this circumstantial evidence enough to warrant a conclusive decision that Federer in fact had frames with the rough gray paint? Maybe yes, maybe no.

    This is where direct evidence would be helpful and necessary to further bolster the argument that Federer actually had frames with the rough gray paint. The direct evidence here comes in the form of photos provided by another TT member.

    [​IMG]

    The photos are clear and indicate an actual Federer custom Tour 90 with the rough gray paint aesthetic. Based on these photos it is evident (unless one actually believes this frame is fake or photoshopped) that Wilson did in fact make custom Tour 90s for Federer with the rough gray paint.

    Therefore, combining all the circumstantial and direct evidence together, a strong argument can be made that some of Federer's custom Tour 90s did in fact have rough gray paint.

    But bear in mind, that is not say that that all Federer's custom Tour 90s had rough gray paint, only that some did, which, in my assessment, makes such a Federer custom Tour 90 (with the rough gray paint variation) an extremely rare and extraordinary one.

    Of course, one doesn't have to agree and follow my assessment, as I respect other's opinions and analyses. I'm just laying out what I think.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2013
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  45. jimbo333

    jimbo333 Hall of Fame

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    ^^^Really fantastic post, brilliant detail we are getting into here:)

    We basically agree on everything for the main 2 points:-

    1. The vast majority of Federer's PSTour90 used in matches between May2003-mid May2004 had no rough grey paint around the grommets channels.
    2. Some of Federer's PSTour90's did actually have rough grey paint around the grommet channels.

    The only thing we disagree on is the photographic evidence of Federer using the frames with the rough grey paint. As I said I'm sure in your top photo, that is light reflection not grey paint (grey above the grip indicates reflection, as there is no grey paint there even on the retail racket), and as it is black at the end of the grommet channel (where the retail is grey). The 2nd photo may be grey, but also maybe light reflection, as explained it is directed upwards towards the sun, although it may be grey paint, I'm not sure with that one.

    I personally havn't yet seen any close-up photos of Federer definitely using the frame with rough grey paint that have 100% convinced me. Although I think that evidence does probably exist.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2013
    #45
  46. jimbo333

    jimbo333 Hall of Fame

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    Also the photo below is of Equijet's rackets. The top racket is definitely Federer's HPS 6.0 paintjob (with silver "w"s), but Federer never played competitive matches with this racket as far as we're aware. He actually used the HPS 6.1 paintjob (with silver "w"s), which Faultfoot identified in this great thread of Federer's different rackets:-
    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=384890

    [​IMG]

    The photo below seems to be one of Federer's actual PSTOUR90 rackets, but I'm yet to see a close-up photo that 100% convinces me he actually used this racket with the rough grey paint. I've seen a number of different pro stock PSTour90 paintjobs and apart from the one below, they've all not had the rough grey paint, so like you said that one is very rare indeed. Just maybe he didn't actually use it in competitive matches though. I should add he probably did, and I predict someone posts a close-up photo very soon that convinces me 100%:)

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2013
    #46
  47. Bdarb

    Bdarb Hall of Fame

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    ^ those n codes are nice to hit with and one of the goat pj's in my opinion. Shouldn't have got rid of mine, ten years from now I know I'll be upset wih myself.
     
    #47
  48. faultfoot

    faultfoot Rookie

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    Thank you. Agreed.
     
    #48
  49. faultfoot

    faultfoot Rookie

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    Sure, your assessment is very well possible too. More close-up photos would shed more light.
     
    #49
  50. jimbo333

    jimbo333 Hall of Fame

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    These 2 photos show no rough grey paint around the grommet channel, and no 3 digit code on the buttcap.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    #50

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