Platform vs Pinpoint

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by Pioneer, Apr 26, 2010.

  1. Pioneer

    Pioneer Professional

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    I have been working on my serve lately and trying to emulate the pinpoint stance serve (Safin and Edberg to be precise). However, my toss is really bad, never at the same spot and height. I can serve some bombs when I'm fresh but as I get tired I start making more errors. I'm thinking about switching to a Sampras/Federer platform stances. Any tips?
     
  2. larry10s

    larry10s Hall of Fame

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    sounds like you need to work on your toss not your stance.(p.s. i prefer a platform stance for my personal preference)
     
  3. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Your stance doesn't affect your toss. A bad toss ruining a pinpoint serve will also ruin a platform serve.
    Learn to toss.
    Pinpoint has more potential power.
    Platform has more potential control.
    Which do you need....that tells you which to use.
     
  4. tricky

    tricky Hall of Fame

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    An iffy toss for a pinpoint serve is unmanageable for a platform serve. Gotta fix the toss first.
     
  5. autumn_leaf

    autumn_leaf Hall of Fame

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    a bad toss is a bad toss. the toss should be shorter and more managable for pinpoint + abbreviated serve motion. most platform players use the stance with the traditional serve motion requiring a higher toss. and the higher the toss goes little errors in the toss becomes much more noticable.

    remember, you don't chase the toss, you tell the toss where to go. it helps me a bit to look at where i want to toss instead of looking at the ball, kind of like throwing a ball, you never look at the ball while throwing, you look at the target you're throwing to.
     
  6. SirSweetSpot

    SirSweetSpot Banned

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    Toss the ball into your racquet path...not the racquet at the ball.
     
  7. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    That and the post below yours are probably the simplest yet most insightful things I've ever read on this forum. I'll try this tonight and see if that doesn't fix my toss issues :shock:
     
  8. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly G.O.A.T.

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    I use this quite often. I visualize my swing path & then toss the ball into that.
     
  9. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Of course, everyone's checklist is different, and has different priorities.
    I visualize my toss target location, based on the kind of serve, it's target, whether or not I"m moving up to net. So I tend to have infinite amounts of toss targets.....:):)
     
  10. SirSweetSpot

    SirSweetSpot Banned

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    Yes, I've found over time this is a great way to increase consistency in the spatial area regarding the toss. The racquet path is a very constant variable and I find just tossing into it to be a very successful approach.
     
  11. SirSweetSpot

    SirSweetSpot Banned

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    Good luck!

    Also give it just more than one night...this is a key fundamental and might require a longer learning curve...but it'll be WELL worth it.:)
     
  12. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Strange....
    My racket swingpath varies from flat first serves left, middle, and right.
    Then add my topspin slice, top, and toptwists, all with different swingpaths.
    And once in a while, a pure sidespin slice, another different swingpath, coupled with the 3 locations I hit, to BOTH courts I"m aiming for, so LOTS of different swingpaths and targets for the toss.
    And before I forget, sometimes I come to net, sometimes I choose to stay back.
     
  13. SirSweetSpot

    SirSweetSpot Banned

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    ^^ You make things more complicated than they should be Lee. Perhaps this is why you've been mired in the realm of 3.5 for decades.
     
  14. Manus Domini

    Manus Domini Hall of Fame

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    I thought that the stance was natural?
     
  15. NickH87

    NickH87 Semi-Pro

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    I switched to a platform stance this year after doing a hybrid for my first 2 year...for me there iss less movement on my legs, so I can focus more on the toss, has cut down on ****ty tosses and double faults.
     
  16. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Sir Sweet...
    3.5 is not so bad.
    Nice when a 3.5 plays mostly 3-4 rounds in A Open tourneys and goes 4 and 5 rounds in the two ProQ's he tried for.....:)
    If that's what you mean by "3.5", well, good and nice.
     
  17. SirSweetSpot

    SirSweetSpot Banned

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    I jest with you...:)

    You're alright in my book brudda.
     
  18. Fedace

    Fedace Banned

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    Pinpoint is more difficult to master. but will give you more power. ask Nick Bolletieri....
     
  19. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly G.O.A.T.

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    Pressure plate studies gave a slight edge to the pinpoint stance. However, some fastest servers in the game have used the platform. Overall, the pinpoint stance probably has a somewhat greater potential for faster serves. It is favored by the very tallest servers who, because of their height advantage, would tend to have a bigger serve anyway.

    It is somewhat dependent on the individual, their stature/physique and balance and possibly other factors. Some can serve faster with the platform while others can serve faster with the pinpoint.
     
  20. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly G.O.A.T.

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    I employ several different swing paths for various types of serves. I probably employ 3 different tosses for most of my serves and sometimes a 4th for a novelty (sidearm) serve. The pros typically employ 2 different tosses (which might not differ a whole lot from each other).
     
  21. eagle

    eagle Hall of Fame

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    Good point autumn. This is what I do and it works for me.

    r,
    eagle
     
  22. Manus Domini

    Manus Domini Hall of Fame

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    Well, for me, serving is just awkward with the platform stance. It seems to off-balance me a decent amount, and I can't get the same positioning with it.
     
  23. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    At 5'11" and short arms, I serve much more accurately with platform stance.
    However, when I get it right, I can blast the ball faster with pinpoint.
    Now the question becomes, do I play tennis to have fun, win a bit, and crush the ball, or should I play tennis to be consistent, win a lot, be a pusher, and guide the ball?
    I'd think crushing the ball, win or lose, is more FUN....for me...maybe not for you.
     
  24. x Southpaw x

    x Southpaw x Semi-Pro

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    I find pinpoint gives more pace on the flatter serves and platform gives more kick on kick serves. I think slice serves favor pinpoint too, but mcenroes lefty slice on ad side always struck me as the best and he uses platform
     
  25. x Southpaw x

    x Southpaw x Semi-Pro

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    Sorry double post
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2010
  26. Pioneer

    Pioneer Professional

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    I forgot to mention I'm 1.95 at the age of 16. Does this mean it's better to use pinpoint? the taller guys seem to be using it - Safin, Philippoussis, Berdych, etc.
     
  27. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly G.O.A.T.

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    Wow! That would put you at nearly 6'5" at the age of 16. If you can get the pinpoint to work for you, go for it. But this is not an absolute -- go with whichever stance yields the best results for you. I'm nearly 1.8 m and can easily use either stance. For me the knee bend, rather than the stance, is the more significant factor. Note that Roddick uses what might be described as either a wide pinpoint or a narrow platform.
     
  28. Manus Domini

    Manus Domini Hall of Fame

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    I agree. And that's reasoning is why JV all calls me stupid, cause I am trying to learn proper technique and am still in that process and don't want to play pusher
     
  29. paulfreda

    paulfreda Hall of Fame

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    Federer, Sampras, Phillipousis, Ivanisovic, Lubijic.
    Some of the best servers of all time.
    All Platform stances.

    As for your inconsistent toss ..........
    Do not look at the ball as you begin the toss,
    Look at the spot you want it to go to.
    It is uncanny how it ends up right about where you look.
     
  30. Djokovicfan4life

    Djokovicfan4life Legend

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    Phillipousis, Ivanisevic, and Ljubicic all use pinpoint if I'm not mistaken.
     
  31. Bigtime

    Bigtime Rookie

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    I've just improved my timing this year with the help of a couple of lessons from a pro (Raul @ PV while on vac. in Mexico), that have helped my serve quite a bit over last year. I have been afraid to try the pinpoint just to avoid adding another timing element.
     
  32. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Never liked to use 6'5" guys, or taller, to be prime serve technique examples. With their 8'6" or higher reach, without a racket, they can serve any way, and hit faster and get the ball in more than mere mortals.
    Fed is just plain good.
    Sampras has ape arms, probably reaches up flatfooted to 8'6".
    For technique, better to look at serves of the average guys, unless YOU can reach up 8'6" flatfooted.
     
  33. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly G.O.A.T.

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    Boris Becker was another big guy with a big serve who employed a platform stance.
     
  34. SirSweetSpot

    SirSweetSpot Banned

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    Guy Forget kind of had a...er...platform stance but he jumped at the ball...really awkward but effective. A great serve!
     
  35. paulfreda

    paulfreda Hall of Fame

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    Old and Modern Pinpoint

    Just checked youtube videos.

    Lubicic looks Pinpoint. Begins with weight all on back foot.

    Ivo does NOT bring his back foot forward, so he is Platform

    Mark does bring his back foot up but only because his back foot is so far back to begin with.
    However he does move it forward [but not next to the front foot].
    So he is more or less in between Platform and Pinpoint

    Maybe I am stretching here but ..........
    I think a distinction could be made between old school pinpoint and modern pinpoint.

    Old school pinpoint was for serve and volleyers who learned to lean forward falling in to the court.
    This pinpoint is all with weight forward both at start and finish.
    Tim Henman is a good example of this.

    Modern pinpoint has the weight way back on the back foot to start [Phillipousis, Lubicic]
    and then naturally they must move the weight forward.

    Platform gets a lot of power from the back leg
    Pinpoint gets most of its power from torso turn and the arms.
    Pinpoint is best for short players who need to get up as high as possible.

    I think the most powerful serves are Platform.
    JMHO
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2010
  36. eagle

    eagle Hall of Fame

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    Will has an excellent article and video demo of the two stances including the hybrid stance.

    http://www.fuzzyyellowballs.com/vid...ed-serve-technique/the-various-serve-stances/

    I've always played with the hybrid stance but will try the pinpoint.

    I've been trying to improve my serve by minimizing the effort and hitches that arise from too many areas where things could go wrong. So recently, I've switched to an abbreviated serve and have seen marked improvement in power and consistency.

    I'm going to try the pinpoint stance to see if that helps improve my serve even more.

    r,
    eagle
     
  37. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Question switching to pinpoint if you abbreviate you swing.
    You're adding more complication to a motion that requires LESS complication.
     
  38. eagle

    eagle Hall of Fame

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    Hi Lee,

    If you see my old serve (failed attempt at emulating Pistol Pete), any change is an improvement. :)

    With kidding aside, my hybrid stance require I move my back foot forward behind the lead foot while tossing the ball and bringing the racquet arm/hand back and up to to the trophy pose and then hit.

    Too many movements and too many opportunities for things to go wrong.

    With pinpoint stance, I will simply stand with feet close together and then go up to the ball with the abbreviated serve.

    Simpler at least to me. :)

    If that doesn't work, then I'll try the platform stance.

    r,
    eagle
     
  39. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Isn't your new stance going to be a narrow stanced platform?
    In pinpoint, you move your back foot forward to either behind or the side of your front foot.
     

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