Play terrible against an unranked pusher, win against a top ranked L-4 player.

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by skyzoo, Sep 21, 2009.

  1. skyzoo

    skyzoo Banned

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    What is going on with me. I play a college club level player who pushes to the max and I lose. I've always had trouble with this kid and have found no solution. My coach even said don't wory about it. Than later that night I play a kid who is 16 and plays level 3,4,5 sectional tournaments and I beat him. Whats wrong with me. Im 17.
     
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  2. The_Steak

    The_Steak Rookie

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    Don't worry about it. What specifically happened when you were playing the pusher? Did you self destruct?

    Note, I still am fighting he waves of pushers thrown at me in all of my current tournaments. I learned that being aggressive was the best solution. A tactic that worked for me was throwing up a lob, and when they lobbed back a short ball, attack and destroy that ball. Sometimes even feed the a short ball and see what they do with it.
     
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  3. CallOfBooty

    CallOfBooty Rookie

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    The top two reasons for losing to a pusher are allowing him to play his defensive game and your mental capacity. Do not allow him to play defense. Always stay aggressive, against a pusher you should never be hitting open. Pushers hit slow enough that you can always set up the closed stance and take shots on the rise and strike the ball aggresively before it drops. This also conquers the mental aspect of beating a pusher because if you hit the ball at the highest point, then you will be making less errors and creating more angles for yourself. You will beat the pusher by not allowing him to prolong the rallies and feeling confident after hitting a winner or putting away an easy volley.
     
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  4. ubermeyer

    ubermeyer Hall of Fame

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    I'm sure that club player could actually play in tournaments if he wanted to; don't worry about it.
     
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  5. firstblud

    firstblud Professional

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    maybe his skill is not that of an unranked pusher like ubermeyer implies
     
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  6. HunterST

    HunterST Hall of Fame

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    I started a thread with this basic idea last week, and I've noticed a lot of people post with similar stories. It seems to be fairly common for ones level of play to reflect the quality of their opponent. That is, when you play someone not so great, you will play not so great. Not sure how to stop it though!

    As for beating this pusher, here is what Brad Gilbert suggests:

    1. Be patient
    2.Get to the net
    3. make them come to the net
    4. don't try to kill the ball to hit a winner
    5. Don't put much on your serves. (idea being not to give them pace to use, make them create their own).
     
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  7. user92626

    user92626 Legend

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    Don't worry about it.
     
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  8. longnt80

    longnt80 New User

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    You beat the "better player" because your coach prepared you for that style of tennis. You're more comfortable with his strokes. However, you are not prepared to play against the pusher's strokes. The solution is: have your coach feed you the ball similar to how the pusher gave you.
     
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  9. jwbarrientos

    jwbarrientos Hall of Fame

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    Good advice!!!
     
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  10. Noaler

    Noaler Semi-Pro

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    I would only go for winners only if I absolutely knew the ball for go in.
     
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  11. skyzoo

    skyzoo Banned

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    Alright guys, thanks for the advice. I know that other people in l-7 tournaments beat this pusher pretty easy and those players ussualy lose to me, so he really isn't tournament ready. I guess I always try and set my self up but it never works because the kid just will not miss. It's terrible because he fast as hell to. I'll try getting to net more i guess
     
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  12. bigserver

    bigserver New User

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    beat him at his own game. if you are a higher level player then you should be able to out rally him and hit one more shot than he does every time. as for the mental side of things it sounds like you almost set your self up with a mental block about beating this guy. focus and think about a game plan and you will win.
     
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  13. skyzoo

    skyzoo Banned

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    I havn't beat this kid since last spring during the season for the #1 spot at my school. I barely beat him and almost broke my racquet. My mental is terrible with this kid
     
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  14. Flyingpanda

    Flyingpanda Rookie

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    I dunno if I'd advise this, I think pushers love it when you try to push back.
     
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  15. bigserver

    bigserver New User

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    I didn't necessarily mean push back. The way i see it is that if you are the better player you should be able to out-hit him and last longer. This is just my opinion and i have found this tactic to be successfull when playing pushers
     
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  16. bigserver

    bigserver New User

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    It's a hard thing to do but try not to think about playing 'him'. If you can remove all thoughts of previous experiences against this guy from your head when playing you will be more likely to win. Do not set your self up for defeat by walking on to a court knowing he irritates you as this gives him an immediate advantage.
     
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  17. jserve

    jserve Rookie

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    Its pretty common for people to have trouble with consistent counter-punchers. The key to beating them is to avoid getting in long drawn out groundstroke rallies because that is where they are most comfortable. Get them out of their comfort zone by applying pressure to them. Approach to net, draw them to net, or use short angles to get them off the baseline all seem to work well.
     
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  18. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Maybe the college pusher can beat the junior no problem too.....
    Just because they don't hit hard with topspin don't mean they don't have a game.
    You can find slicer/dicers at any level up to 7.0, and they never look good, but they sure can win thru attrition, consistency, and smarts.
     
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  19. North

    North Professional

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    I eventually learned to beat pushers by applying this concept in a somewhat different sense. When I play a pusher I try not to think of a human being across the net, just a human-shaped ball machine permanently stuck on the "pusher" setting. Then it is just like a VERY boring practice session where I work on being aggressive and focused as I try to get to the net as much as possible. Mentally it helps because then I am more patient and not resentful of the pusher trying to make the match so exceedingly boring for me (a ball machine can't help being boring) and it becomes a challenge to outwit the machine. I know it sounds strange but it's what I found worked for me to beat pushers.
     
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  20. BullDogTennis

    BullDogTennis Hall of Fame

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    well the "college level pusher" would prob beat the "young tourny playing kid" a lot worse than you did.
     
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  21. Kick_It

    Kick_It Semi-Pro

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    Don't let it faze you.

    What it probably means is that you don't play against that style of player often so either:

    1) You don't know what you need to do to succeed against them
    -- OR --
    2) You know what to do but don't practice those shots often enough to execute successfully against such a player when you need to.

    I don't often practice against such players. I usually practice against people who generate lots of pace. As such I used to be particularly vulnerable to players who didn't generate pace. Now I'm less vulnerable ;-)

    Good Luck! K_I
     
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  22. skyzoo

    skyzoo Banned

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    thanks man. I never play good against players who don't hit with pace or were i can't get into a rythem. I hate it a lot. and yeah that college club level player is garbage considering his match stats this summer compared to mine.
     
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  23. corno

    corno New User

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    Skyzoo - i can relate, big time.

    If I'm honest, its probably mental with me but I am getting better!
    Thought process goes something like this. Dude/pusher steps on court, we warm up, I'm playing fine, my subconscious mind makes an assessment that I am going to wipe the floor with my opposition. Win the first few games playing my game...then, slowly but surely get bogged down in mud and pulled into a war of attrition, as you miss the odd winner, lose confidence and gain frustration.

    However, last night i beat one of the biggest pushers i've ever played. He even mentioned someone walked off the court against him the other day through frustration! haaha!

    Anyways, Brad Gilbert I think is right for the most part in "winning ugly". Get to the net, get them to the net.

    The guy last night chopped everything back, nothing on it, slices from both sides, to the middle of the court, Although he did have quite a good 1st serve. 2 sets took 2.5 hours. I was nacard. But I tried to get good 1st serves in and get straight into net. And if he started moon balling i'd moon ball back to his backhand and then again follow up into the net. I made some mistakes, and it was closer than it should have been, but one thing is for sure - they hate being put in a position where they have to attack. At the net he looked like a rabbit in headlights. I think Gilbert describes some guy in his book as the great gatesby...that was this guy....i'd get him into the net, then he'd just retreat back. again and again. Kind of made me chuckle after a while. Anyway I outgrinded him with this stuff. It wasn't that pretty and probably should have stuck to my original game but there ya go - got there in the end.
     
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  24. Xenakis

    Xenakis Hall of Fame

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    Re the thread title...

    Should be play terribly

    not play terrible.

    Adverb not adjective, this problem is the linguistic equivalent of tennis elbow (very common amongst tennis players)
     
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  25. film1

    film1 Semi-Pro

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    Easier said than done

    I love it when a player tries to beat me at my own game. It put me is the driver seat and I know am in control.
     
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  26. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

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    How good are you OP? Can you hit inside out and corner forehands and backhands consistently? If so, hit those deep and follow them to the net when you see him out of position.

    You don't have to crush them, just place them there with some pace.
     
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  27. skyzoo

    skyzoo Banned

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    honestly bro, no reason for that at all
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2009
    #27
  28. skyzoo

    skyzoo Banned

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    I'd say I'm a 4.5 with a more or less topspin oriented game. Slice my backhands most of the time and hit my forehands deep with a lot of topspin. I Ussualy try and hit to my opponents back hand and set up my forehand. I only play good against rythem players. Maybe I might try and never play the pusher again just so i don't end up killing myself
     
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  29. lightning.lu10

    lightning.lu10 New User

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    The main reason why people have trouble with pushers is because once they see a pusher they come in with the mindset that if they lose it will be embarrassing, which is the completely wrong mindset. If you come in and play not to lose, then you will be tentative on all of your shots and once you start missing, hit even softer and play right to where the pusher wants you to play.

    The way I kill pushers is to come in thinking that this is another game against an opponent that CAN beat me if I'm not playing my game. I come out smashing the ball and discouraging the pusher, getting into his head instead of him getting into mine. The pusher starts missing shots he normally makes(because of my pace and heaviness of the ball) and starts blaming his racquet, etc. and I know I have won.
     
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  30. bigserver

    bigserver New User

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    i love it when i beat someone at their own game lol. i know what you mean though it is a tough one to perfect and be able to pull off and consequently doesn't always work
     
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  31. ubermeyer

    ubermeyer Hall of Fame

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    Haha, Gilbert was one of the most pusher-like pros ever... I guess these are things other people did against him?
     
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  32. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

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    You aren't a 4.5 until you beat this pusher. The reason is because it will just take simple execution unless this guy is on a high level and hits incredible strokes with consistency.

    If you can run him to both corners and finish at the net (which a 4.5 should be able to do), you will beat him.
     
    #32
  33. marosmith

    marosmith Professional

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    you probably have a difficult time creating your own pace when it isn't provided.
     
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  34. Xenakis

    Xenakis Hall of Fame

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    I know it's annoying to have your grammar or spelling corrected, and for that I apologise.

    But I think it matters.

    You are judged to a great extent on how you speak, it's worth making the effort to get it right, that's the way I was brought up anyway, and I still make mistakes and get corrected too. Don't take it personally.
     
    #34
  35. skyzoo

    skyzoo Banned

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    ...

    ehh I can create a lot of pace, but your right for the most part, I can't hit that effectivly without a player who produces some pace. I think I might hit with this guy today and really put some effort into placing the ball deep and approaching the net. If I win I'll buy everyone on this thread a pair of oreo vapors. Except the guy correcting me on grammer.
     
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  36. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

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    Cool man. goodluck and let us know how it goes.
     
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  37. Xenakis

    Xenakis Hall of Fame

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    I think your mean grammar...

    :shock:
     
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  38. mark1

    mark1 Semi-Pro

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    if you have a good serve and can volley at a decent level, i would mix in a good bit of serve and volley.

    i like to serve and volley to the backhand side of pushers because the return usually isnt the best and i have somewhat of a big first serve.

    i also like to use the low short slice to the middle of the court to see what they can do with that ball. often times they have trouble and i am ready to move forward and pounce on the fact that they are out of position.

    good luck
     
    #38
  39. mark1

    mark1 Semi-Pro

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    i think he means quit being annoying in this thread by posting about grammar. it was comprehensive enough to get his point across, so nobody else cared except for you.

    give it up man. go express your frustration with grammar to your wife/gf or something
     
    #39
  40. skyzoo

    skyzoo Banned

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    Good new's. I won 7-6, 6-0. The first set I simply played how he wanted me to play, so at 5-6 I started to hit more flat forehands and tryed to get him to approach or try and get up to net myself. After I won the tiebreak I played how I wanted to and never let him take control of the points. Thanks for the help guys.
     
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  41. ubermeyer

    ubermeyer Hall of Fame

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    did you play him again after reading the advice? if so, good job!

    if not, well good job anyway :)
     
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  42. skyzoo

    skyzoo Banned

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    Yeah I played him today after The pages of advice and really tried something from every poster. I found a happy medium when I hit a flat ball and was able to get up to net. i feel like I wouldn't of been able to beat him without the help I got. thank's again
     
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