Played beside some nationally ranked Juniors last night

Discussion in 'Adult League & Tournament Talk' started by jaybear1909, Oct 17, 2012.

  1. jaybear1909

    jaybear1909 Rookie

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    Good God, in what world should a 14 year old be destroying the ball like these two were? I'm a 4.0, and hit pretty hard, but my shots didn't compare to these guys. What's so crazy is that they're just kids. Both lefty, one with a one-handed backhand (the best I've ever seen in person). Killing serves, returns and every other ball that bounced on their side. The 1hbh guy had great volleys and movement as well. Would be awesome to see them in the big leagues one day, even though I guess it's a slim chance.

    When they were leaving, I jokingly asked for an autograph and asked what they were ranked. The 1hbh said he is 5th in GA (USTA) and 30th nationally. Not sure what this all means but I'm guessing it's pretty good. He said I'll see him at Wimbledon one day haha.

    I also had an alta match a couple of Saturdays ago where some D1 University of Tennessee guys were playing a couple sets. I think I'd much prefer to just sit and watch these than play my matches lol.

    Any similar stories?
     
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  2. tennis tom

    tennis tom Hall of Fame

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    That means he's pretty damn good and you may see him at Wimby someday--get his autograph.
     
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  3. Mongolmike

    Mongolmike Professional

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    I was on a court next to a Div 3 men's college team. They were doing reflex volleys at the net at a pace which dropped my mouth. The pace and control were way beyond me.

    That and I hit with a kid this summer who is now a soph at a minor Div 1 school. He was helping out with a league practice session and with an odd number the coach had me hit with this kid. He was hitting everything to me and we were just ralleying, but he had so much pace and spin on the ball it was wrenching the racquet in my hands every time I returned. I've seen him and his HS doubles partner play in a tourney... yikes. People talk trash about young juniors in other threads, but if they are on the strong end of the junior group, they can hit with anyone, and beat most anyone under 5.0 pretty handily.
     
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  4. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    While the top of the heap 14 year olds can often hit even with 5.5, I'd think anyone playing singles for Tenn. would crush them in a singles match.
    A 14 year old, no matter how well he hits, just doesn't have the MATCH experience of a Div1 singles player. That's why he needs another 3 years of tennis experience to even go 2 rounds in Futures or Q's.
    Hitting hard and consistent is one thing. Playing a serious 5.5 level MATCH for real is another different animal.
     
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  5. FloridaAG

    FloridaAG Professional

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    A number of guys on the UM (Univ. of Miami) men's team used to teach and hit at the Sunrise club I used to play at (where there used to be a top Challengers event that lots of highly ranked pros played in) - one day I was walking out to the Courts and it literally sounded like someone was shooting a gun. One of the UM guys was just bombing serves
     
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  6. FloridaAG

    FloridaAG Professional

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    My other good one happened when I was in HS playing high school tennis and the top rated junior in Alabama was playing for the other school and my coach threw me out as the sacrificial lamb to the slaughter at #1 singles (I usually played #3 as the 2 rated juniors played 1-2) - now that was an ass-kicking I have never forgotten
     
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  7. Timbo's hopeless slice

    Timbo's hopeless slice Hall of Fame

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    now you understand why the phrase 'I'm a 4.0 and hit pretty hard' makes more experienced players smile.

    No, you don't...
     
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  8. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    I know plenty of 4.0's who hit the ball as hard as any top level junior.
    That's why they are 4.0's! One in 3 go in during matches, so they have to reign it back to their level (my level), which is about current 12 year old female junior levels....
     
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  9. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    4.0s are nobodies. Juniors are far superior.
     
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  10. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    What logic is that? Juniors do not even map to the NTRP system. Most 4.0s are no comparison to juniors starting from teenage.
     
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  11. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    my my, so quick to diss, but obviously, you didn't comprehend my 2 posts.
    Comprehension is a practiced skill. Try it.
    And read those last two posts of mine again.
    You are verifying what I said, that's all.
     
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  12. goober

    goober Legend

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    Don't badger Lee, he still living in the past from tournaments he played in the 70s. He was a pretty big deal back then, just ask him.
     
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  13. leroy_sunset

    leroy_sunset Rookie

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    I recently hit with a 13 year old, ranked #1 junior in the PNW for his age group. It was a lot of fun. Makes me feel old just thinking about it (I'm 28 and he's been playing about as long as me).
     
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  14. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Goober, I don't lie about my past. I can only recall experiences from the past because that was when I played!
    Since '79, I haven't played a decent game of tennis, because I took up motocross, went back to surfing by '83, and took up windsurfing, which I now do about 6 days a week in the spring, summer, and fall.
    YOU might be 16 and think your experiences are unique and eyeopening, but I can assure you, plenty of people have experienced all the stuff you will ever experience in your life.
    Heck, just ask your granddad! :shock:
     
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  15. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

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    There is a tourney up there this weekend. I played with one of the kids entering, and he has a good shot at taking the thing based on his past record. In terms of pace he hit nice and hard but that was not an issue as much as his placement and incredible side to side movement.

    I also disagree with LeeD as this kid took apart a former pro player a few months ago. I have played enough 5.0s. This guy is easily an entire rating point above that.
     
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  16. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Former pro was out of shape, disinterested, went thru the motions. NO pro takes a match against a junior seriously, unless it's for money or ranking.
    Just like you would never take a match against a 5.0 woman seriously. Sure, you run for some balls, hit some of your best shots, but you're going thru the motions around 70% max.
    14 year olds, no matter how big and hard hitting, are just kids susceptible to match pressures they never have seen as juniors. YOU KNOW THAT.
    They can look great against another player who plays IN to his game, and fall apart when something they haven't faced is encountered. This "former pro" just didn't dig everything out of his bag, and didn't take the match seriously.
    And "former pro" doesn't mean a guy ranked 300, trying to qualify for a Q or future spot, hoping to make the main draw. There is no money in Q's and Futures really, so what they can make is not considered PRO worthy.
    First round in most smaller tourneys can garner you up to 2,000 bucks, worthy of about that 300 ranking.
     
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  17. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

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    well you are wrong....I know you want to be right about everything, but the pro was surprised to lose and from what I heard played very hard. He also won 2 titles under his belt and made the top 100, so he is no slouch. He still plays a lot of tennis so I doubt he is too out of shape.
     
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  18. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    I'm wrong.
    Filphil here is a 16 year old top junior. He hasn't made the first round of a draw for a pro tourney yet.
    ClintThomson never made the main draw, or if he did, it was less than twice.
    LawMan couldn't make the first round. MofP didn't.
    TennisBalla, who's way bigger and stronger, hasn't either.
    You expect anyone to believe this 14 year old can actually WIN against Satelilte, Q, and Future players?
    Someone is not playing with a full deck here.
     
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  19. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    And I sincerely hope Filphil has made the first round, at least once.
     
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  20. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    You know I meant that Canadian kid who won all those junior titles, don't you?
     
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  21. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

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    Man I am just going by his record. You argue with everyone all the time but you have no current experience anymore. You are living in the past and using internet examples. I am using real world experience and direct conversation in person with people who have seen the guy play former pros and win.

    LOL..the full deck quote is the best irony ever by you..amazing.

    At the end of the day I was addressing the OP since the guy I played will most likely be playing against the guys he saw. Your opinion (believe it or not) is not needed in every single thread on TT.
     
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  22. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    He said, she said, and then they said......
    You provide no proof, no names, just what you "heard" about someone from someone else.
    You know the kid I mean. He's won some big junior events, but he hasn't won a Q or Future or Satelite to quailfy for a first round.
    You're talking like there are 10 juniors out there ready to make a first round...without WC.
    Heck, SteveJohnson barely makes the main draw, and only less than half the time. That UCLA lefty is struggling.
    Those guys don't lose to no 14 year olds!
     
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  23. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

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    Ok man, I made it all up..lol. My god, I wish I could play you and watch you limp around the court making excuses the whole time.
     
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  24. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Son of one of my tennis buds, a former #2 for Harvard, Aba, is/ was just in Europe playing to try to get into a main. Don't know if he went to the orient or stayed in eastern Europe this week.
    He hasn't advanced out of Q tourneys yet.
    Another old fart I play with lately, has a son who was #1 for WestVirginia, about 8 years ago, went on the Q tour, never made the first round. He is 6'7" and serves lights out.
    No junior is gonna beat them, either, certainly not a 14 year old.
    You don't understand, playing ONE old "ex pro", and winning, is not like winning a key to success in the future of pro tennis.
    Your junior is probably being held back by his parents from playing any real tough Q or Future events, because like a young boxer, they need to cultivate their skills, confidence, confidence, confidence, confidence. by playing CONTROLLED matches while they're developing. And they are still developing, not "made it".
     
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  25. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

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    Lee, you are back to your name dropping and one upmanship. That is not what this thread is about. We can argue about it all day on how good the guy is and I know you will want to post the last word, which will be a haiku of name drops and bragging.

    OP, let me know if you hit that tourney up this weekend. You are right, these guys are another level and you never know if one of them will pop and make it into the pros one day.
     
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  26. InspectorRacquet

    InspectorRacquet Semi-Pro

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    I think I'll just leave my story right here.

    I was walking down by the courts to find an open court at my local club, which is home to an academy. Just stepping outside of the main building, you can hear the clean "thud" of a well-struck ball. As I passed by one court, there was a junior (who I assume is in the 16s or 18s) playing a practice match with another junior (both guys, and the other was also 16s or 18s). Both are around top 100 in their school year.

    Anyway, the power and spin these guys make and get is astounding. One serves what appears to be the biggest ace I've ever seen up the line. And then the other one returns it on the backhand side like it was nothing. That rally was short, but they put SO MUCH SPIN on the ball with decent net clearance, too. I had to keep moving or I would have had to explain why I was just standing there watching these guys play right in front of the parents.

    Lesson learned: if I ever see these guys again, never challenge them for the court (and something about how juniors are better than we think, etc.)
     
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  27. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Without names, anyone could make anything up.
    Yes, my experiences are really old.
    But they are not conjecture, not projection, not any third hand hearsay.
    Are you afraid to post actual names or dates? This stuff is all past history, there is no good or bad, should have or shouldn't have, it's fact.
    Yes, I mention lots of names from my past. They are real. You can probably contact them and ask them, if you need to find out if I"m fibbing or whatever. That's why a name is needed.
    Heck, GregShepard is still playing Men's 60's, USTA NorCal. Find his email and ask him if he asked a lefty DomondLee to hit when I was a 3.5, in 1977.
    I might be losing my memory in regards to certain names and exact dates, but everything I mention actually happenned, have names, and is in history.
     
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  28. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

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    I'm not posting the name of a 14 year old kid on the internet just so YOU believe me. Its never going to happen, and it's childish and stupid. I know enough TT members in my area to easily verify anything I post here.

    Plenty of your stuff is third hand hearsay. You raved about your serve until it was filmed. You talk about how far you throw footballs..etc. If anyone should be taken with a grain of salt, its yuou. I have nothing to prove since people from here know me well enough. I just wanted to talk on topic of the thread. You choose to derail it and debate who is lying in your mind.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2012
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  29. TheCheese

    TheCheese Professional

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    30 nationally is not even close to Wimbledon championship good. Realistically, he'll play for a D1 school and probably won't do that well if he went pros.

    The really good players are ranked top 20 internationally by that age. Even then, they most likely won't be very successful pro players.

    I mean, look at Steve Johnson. He's a great player but I don't think he's the next Roddick or Agassi.
     
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  30. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

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    Yeah I would agree with this. But Steve Johnson clearly can be a top 100 player, which has has to be looked upon as some form of success.
     
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  31. Timbo's hopeless slice

    Timbo's hopeless slice Hall of Fame

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    The REALLY good players don't waste time on College, the few that do often find it was 3 years they never got back.
     
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  32. goran_ace

    goran_ace Hall of Fame

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    I grew up playing at the same club as a kid who was top 10 in the nation in 16s and 18s. Yeah he hit a really high quality ball, but what was amazing was his accuracy and consistency hitting like that. He was always under control.
     
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  33. bt johnson

    bt johnson Rookie

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    Not sure the exact names of the players that are being referred to in this thread but so far I have not seen any junior player's in Atlanta that can beat a D-1 SEC school player or former one yet. I hit fairly often with the #1 singles player for one of the Alpharetta schools and while he is only 16 years old and a good tennis player, he gets excited when getting 2 games off me in a set
     
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  34. bt johnson

    bt johnson Rookie

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    I have not made many posts on this forum but I have enjoyed reading it since I have joined. Saying that I think LeeD is a knowledgeable tennis source and has my respect in that regard. Maybe y'all have some past issues but I don't think what you said was very polite.
     
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  35. kimbahpnam

    kimbahpnam Hall of Fame

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    i'm a coach of a high school team that is rivals with the school mitch stewart plays for. according to tennis recruiting he's #1 on tennis rpi for junior class. ironically, his team came last in our league :) he'll no doubt win state this year again. the pnw can produce good players too!
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2012
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  36. spaceman_spiff

    spaceman_spiff Hall of Fame

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    A few years ago I got tickets for Court 1 on final Sunday at Wimbledon. It was the year before the roof, and there was enough rain that fortnight that I got lucky and got to see the men's and women's doubles finals back to back.

    On the way to the stadium, as my buddy and I were walking past some of the outer courts, I heard an almighty crack. A few steps later, I saw inside the court and saw that it was a juniors doubles final and the last serve was showing as over 130 mph.
     
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  37. goober

    goober Legend

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    Every interview I have seen with Isner, he states he doesn't regret spending 4 years in college. I don't believe I have seen somdev devvarmanor or Ben Becker state they regret going to college. All those guys were not ready for the pro tour at 18.
     
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  38. chippy17

    chippy17 Semi-Pro

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    I am in the UK and play at a club where a very talented nationally ranked 14yr old plays at occasionally (I am maybe a 4.5 in US speak) and i was just hitting with him and suggested we play a couple of sets: 6-2 6-0 and about 45 mins later...I got a kicking

    I am 40btw
     
    #38
  39. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Yeah LeeD is the GOAT of all sports, not just tennis.
     
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  40. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Somdev may not be a good example. He probably used the scholarship in the US for an education, without having the intention to turn pro. I don't know, I am guessing. It would be difficult to make an informed decision at that age in India where you are not being challenged by very high-level players. The US experience could have opened up the whole field for him, along with providing him with a coach.

    The other aspect is that human psychology always justifies what the person does. Isner, JMac, Blake, Lisa Raymond and the Bryans will always insist that college was good. Also, saying college was no good would have been like dissing their alma mater which doesn't sit well with fans.
     
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  41. LuckyR

    LuckyR Legend

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    You are right that most don't. Whatever they won in prize money before age 20 will be dwarfed by sponsorship money later but ignorant is usually forever in athletics...
     
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  42. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

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    Yes LeeD's know it all attitude can lead to impoliteness at times. You are new, so you have missed many things. Most notably when a touring pro posted here and LeeD decided to tell him how to play tennis before finding out who he was and realizing how foolish he looked. I wont get into the laundry list since I find this thread topic much more interesting.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2012
    #42
  43. Gonzalito17

    Gonzalito17 Hall of Fame

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    About 8 years ago there was a pretty Hispanic girl practicing with a coach about a week before the US Open in Hackensack NJ on public courts, I asked if she was playing qualies, she said she was in the main draw, name was Catalino Castano of Colombia, she was staying with family in Hackensack area.

    Last year on a park hard court in Longboat Key I saw Ellis Ferreira hitting and semi coaching a Belgium pro about 21, Tammy Hendler. Ferreira was #1 in the world in doubles about ten years ago but he was perfect out there, missed nothing, every serve in the corners, plus he did some pretty cool ball tricks against the wall. You feel like stopping playing and just watching when you see players who are infinitely better than you : )
     
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  44. Gonzalito17

    Gonzalito17 Hall of Fame

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    Last week there was a Kazakstan guy hitting with a junior in NJ and he looked like a current top 100 pro. Turned out his name was Vitali, he played #1 at Harvard and as a junior he played Davydenko, Youzhny. Looked like an ATP pro out there.
     
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  45. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Well, since we're being specific here, which we should.....
    BTJohnson. The player was ClintThompson or something like that from DownUnder. He was ranked in the mid 600's at the time, had beaten JurgenMeltzer when both were juniors.
    He posted vids of his service line position volleys, where he volleyed deep and stayed in place, over and over, both sides. I posted that while this is worthwhile and good practice, that he should also practice hitting from there, and work on getting inside center of service court position to hit several different putaway volleys AND work on his approach volleys from farther back, where he get's to hit low and half volleys, besides just the chest high sitters he was hitting. He showed over 40 volleys, all sitters hit to him chest high.
    Lots of people here jumped in and said I had no business telling Clint what to do, that I was a beginner mouthing off to a Pro player. Clint did post that vid voluntarily to a public forum.
    Clint had not made a main draw by that time, maybe 3 years ago.
    Me, the beginner, entered and played 2 Q's, went 3 rounds the first time, 2 rounds the second, ultimately quitting tennis after the second to persue motocross.
    I feel I'm pretty qualified to access Clint's volley practice. Also, I played the Q's in the late '70's, when serve and volley was the main style for higher level tennis.
    You decide.
     
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  46. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

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    You are right in the center of the hotbed..Must be rather fun down there!
     
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  47. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    You realize that you are arguing with a mad man right? :)
     
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  48. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    My claim to fame in the tennis world is that Vincent "ain't afraid of ya" Spadea handed me a double bagel in the juniors. The previous 2 tournaments I had also been blanked by number 1 seeds. I thought the first 2 guys were better, guess I was wrong on that one!

    I saw Capriati hit when she was about 12 and was astounded at how hard and accurate she was. I knew then and there that she was going to the top one day.

    A few years ago, Robert Kendrick was hired to play exhibition games with people at our club tournament. He mostly took it easy on everyone but if somebody hit a good shot at him in doubles or started trash talking, he would boom an ace. I'd watch those serves and think how can anyone in the world get to that serve and make a decent return out of it.
     
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  49. Gonzalito17

    Gonzalito17 Hall of Fame

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    LeeD, no need to defend yourself. If you speak from the heart to help Clint, good on you. I read the Bodo book where Jeff Borowiak said he was losing a Wimbledon match and the ballkid voluntarily offered some advice: Get to the net. Borowiak listened to the advice of the ballkid and ended up coming back and winning the match. If a ballkid can give advices, so can anyone, if they mean well and are not grandstanding.
     
    #49
  50. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    :):)
    We've all watched Jeff play thru a career of at least 10 years in the pros.
    He played lots of tournaments up here in SanFrancisco area.
    95% of ballboys and girls are very accomplished junior tennis players, some top level. They play tennis, watch tennis, and know tennis.
    One of the wisest and most tactical tennis adviser's I"ve ever met didn't play tennis at all. He used to play soccer.
     
    #50

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