"Players rackets" - are too many people just scared to try them?

Discussion in 'Racquets' started by MikeHitsHard93, Apr 7, 2013.

  1. MikeHitsHard93

    MikeHitsHard93 Hall of Fame

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    Recently hit with a 6.1 classic, and I have to say it was one of the best hitting rackets I've ever laid a finger on. I've also hit with a 6.0 95, a prestige mp, and a rebel 95. These are all considered "players rackets".

    Recently I started a thread stating that I don't think that most players under 4.0 should use anything over 11.5 ounces...but I'm starting to think that racket weight may just be a preference thing. Sweet spot size may be the only limiting factor for lower level players...what do you guys think?
     
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  2. Hi I'm Ray

    Hi I'm Ray Hall of Fame

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    IMO, I think many of the 4.0 & under players you mentioned who don't have a super fast swing speed & spin would be getting better pace and control with something like a 6.1. I think the higher weight would add some power to a slower swing speed, help smooth out the stroke a bit, and lend some control.

    It seems harder to control a very fast swing while using a powerful racket.

    Of course it also comes down to personal preference and playing style.

    BTW if you like the 6.1, the Donnay Pro 1 is worth a look. It swings and feels much heavier than its specs - very much a players racket with some extra power and a forgiving stringbed.
     
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  3. MikeHitsHard93

    MikeHitsHard93 Hall of Fame

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    Yeah the 6.1 was a dynamite stick. I was really a fan of how it was weighted and balanced. I'm a fan of the polarized feel. But like I said before, the 6.1 has a huge sweet spot and I bet it's because of this that I can play with this racket without any difficulty.
     
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  4. Hi I'm Ray

    Hi I'm Ray Hall of Fame

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    That's interesting, I've been saying it's an "easy to use players racket" since I first demoed it 13 yrs ago - an awesome frame that isn't too demanding and I feel I can use it well from day to day. I came within an inch of buying it but had one day playing out of my mind with another, more demanding frame which I ended up buying - Wrong choice. Most of the other college players I competed against were using 6.1's; this was the enviroment where I saw how using a racket that is easy to play well with on a daily basis was very important especially when playing against tough competition, and also how important power is.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2013
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  5. MikeHitsHard93

    MikeHitsHard93 Hall of Fame

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    Well it has opened my eyes a bit and now I can really tell that I muscle the ball a lot with lighter sticks. I loved that plowy, low-powered, direct line drive shot that I could generate with the 6.1, 6.0, and also the prestige pro that I vaguely remember trying a couple years ago.
     
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  6. lawrencejin

    lawrencejin Rookie

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    I agree -- people are probably too afraid to try heavier players frames. It takes a while to get used to timing the ball correctly (especially on defense against a competitive player), but once your body gets accustomed to it, there's nothing quite like it.
     
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  7. ollinger

    ollinger Legend

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    "I'm starting to think that racket weight may just be a preference thing"....well there's a revelation!! And if you've come to that conclusion, why assert that people who don't use heavier racquets are "scared" of them. Muddled stuff here!
     
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  8. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

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    What's "hitting with" mean - match play or hitting around? Huge difference. Any racquet can be money when you "hit with it". Save yourself some headache and judge racquets only by match play.

    If you can win, handle the weight in high heat in the 3rd set, then yeah, it will work for you.
     
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  9. Relinquis

    Relinquis Hall of Fame

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    they're too afraid to try, so they don't recognise their actual preference...
     
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  10. tennis ratchet

    tennis ratchet New User

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    i think it has to do with player size as well--i'm 6'3", that 11 oz racquet weighs less for me than it does for someone who's 5'5". i'm sure the same goes for a 3.5.
     
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  11. eidolonshinobi

    eidolonshinobi Professional

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    I think it can also be a good thing, because even though you have solid strokes and your fitness isn't up to par, you're better off not using a player's stick.

    I started loving the Yonex vcore97t (330g unstrung 348g strung with overgrip) and it's great for the first set or when I have time to set up for shots. But when I'm playing those better than me or longer sets, the racket can get too heavy.
     
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  12. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    See people pickup Players racquets once they develop injuries. Head Radical is a great way to start.
     
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  13. MikeHitsHard93

    MikeHitsHard93 Hall of Fame

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    I mean both match play and hitting around casually. I played a few games against my friend that's of similar skill level and I was not hindered on my strokes. They actually benefitted from the weight, especially when I was on the run and wanted to whip a nice cross court backhand at him. The weight of the racket gave me the stability and power to do that. I didn't have to muscle the ball.
     
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  14. MikeHitsHard93

    MikeHitsHard93 Hall of Fame

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    I didn't mean that ALL people are scared to use heavier rackets.
     
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  15. MikeHitsHard93

    MikeHitsHard93 Hall of Fame

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    Yeah I'm 6' 190lbs and work in a warehouse where I'm lifting heavy things all day. My 11 ounce sticks just feel like toys lately lol.
     
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  16. spinovic

    spinovic Hall of Fame

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    I think many of the reviews and feedback on the players frames are intimidating to beginners.

    I agree. I think you should demo a variety and find what you like. Reviews are a helpful resource, but it still comes down to the individual and what they are comfortable with.
     
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  17. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

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    Go for it. There are no rules to what works.

    I play better with player's sticks. I just keep them around 12 ounces and the Sw stays low since I'm not tall and only play 10-12 hours a week.
     
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  18. bluetrain4

    bluetrain4 Legend

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    I actually think that many people simply don't care and aren't even aware of the player's vs. non-player's designations.

    Amongst us racquet/spec junkies on TW, who constantly obsess about "player's" vs. "tweeners", 3 pts vs. 4 points headlight, 22 vs. 21.5 mm beam, 324 vs. 321 SW, and on and on, it seems like everyone who is even remotely decent at tennis would naturally be the same way, but I don't think that's the case at all.

    I know a lot of good players (4.0, 4.5, 5.0 and up) who don't give racquet specs a second thought and who play with whatever they play with because it's simply what they always played with or because they tried out a frame and "it felt good." They have no identity based on their racquet and certainly don't give a hoot if their frame is or isn't designated as a "player's" frame. Lots of players get settled in to frames that are "fine" and rightly beleive that the rest is up to them.
     
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  19. max

    max Hall of Fame

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    I think there are practical, physical parameters at work here: why is the racquet of a certain length, vs. much larger or smaller? Why not a 25 ounce racquet or a 5 ounce racquet.

    The short book on Technical Tennis is a good reference here.

    My guess, for the OP, is that it is younger players who might be most likely to be unfamiliar with players frames. They may have only used lightweight ones their whole life and never much considered the weight factor.

    I see some of the young teen players and say to myself, "Glad for them they've got that much energy to be whipping all the time at the ball like that!"
     
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  20. MikeHitsHard93

    MikeHitsHard93 Hall of Fame

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    I thought about weighting up my pro open, but I wouldn't want to keep brushing the ball with a WW forehand. A driving forehand is much more natural for me. I play even less than you do, and I'm not a big guy either. But I'm in pretty decent shape so I don't think weight can really hinder me anymore. I seem to like my sticks around 12-12.6 ounces and very headlight with a sw of about 325.

    Do you find it hard to "let the racket do the work" when the racket is lighter? I certainly do. Which is another reason why I think people are right on the money when they say to play with the heaviest stick you can handle.
     
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  21. MikeHitsHard93

    MikeHitsHard93 Hall of Fame

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    This is definitely plausible and realistic. Many people I play with just buy a random frame because they like how it looks or just because it's popular. For instance, many people in my town use prince rackets because they're popular here. Most people don't worry about specs unless they are freaks about tennis.
     
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  22. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

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    I don't let the racquet do the work if I am hitting with heavy spin. I have to generate faster head speed. but I don't hit the same ball over and over.

    I do let the racquet do the work on flatter balls where I end up finishing over my shoulder instead of down at my hip.

    Think it is important to find a weight where you can do both for 3 hours.
     
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  23. MikeHitsHard93

    MikeHitsHard93 Hall of Fame

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    I started playing with a 9 ounce Wilson titanium, and went I bent it after hitting a forehand, my dad bought me a 9.5 ounce Wilson hyper hammer 115. During a drill at practice one day, a teammate was an idiot and smacked our rackets together as I was swinging at a ball and busted the frame at 9 o'clock. I then received two prince o3 emerald 110s for Xmas. Started getting a lot better and actually finished highschool with these as #1 doubles and the team captain. Got tired of lack of control as I got better, so I sold them to a friend and got my first midplus racket on my 18th birthday: a prince exo3 graphite 100. I played with oversize power frames for 5 years before realizing what a smaller head and more weight can do for your game.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2013
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  24. MikeHitsHard93

    MikeHitsHard93 Hall of Fame

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    I think demoing is in order, or else I will ask my old coach if he can lend me his 6.1 for a while. I can take it to cardio with me and see how I cope... Right now the reason why I hit tons of ww topspin is to just keep the ball in. I'm not really a fan of it, because I think that it's really easy to change the mechanics in the swing every so slightly. There's little margin for error with this type of setup IMHO.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2013
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  25. Lukhas

    Lukhas Legend

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    I use a @rt€ng0 TR930 FlaxFiber. Soft racket, feels even more soft than the RA rating says.
    http://www.@rt€ng0.com/EN/@rt€ng0-tr-930-flaxfiber-221723504/ (l337 speak for precaution).

    So yeah, it's a good stick, although light weight for a player's stick, but it has nothing to do with more easy to wield racquets. Although the days you are sleepy, don't feel anything, or are simply plain bad, you don't do crap with it. Really. For me, "the" good stick is the one you still can play with when you are not are you best.

    I'm not afraid of player's sticks, really. It's just the kind of frame I can't play with when I'm not at my best. Hence the term "player's racquet".

    On a thread for G. Monfils (as he switched to Wilson), a guy who strung him said that when he discussed about it with him, that he doesn't even know what he precisely has. He just said what he wanted, Wilson send tweaked racquets and off to P1 of the final tweaks. When it's a limiting factor the frame is a problem, but when you're simply good with it and it feels natural, no need for a "players frame", "X RA", "X HL/HH points", "X swingweight" or something. People use the numbers upside down, really. When you have worn up a racquet you were good with, here you use the numbers to search for a racquet that's similar. Not the reverse, when you search for numbers before you even played correctly to begin with...
     
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  26. finalfantasy7

    finalfantasy7 Semi-Pro

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    I always play with my tgk 237.1, love it, got 6g on 10- same on 2 n 5g on handle, I've taken off the original leather, replaced it with Wilson which shield gel grip.

    Haven't weighed it but it should weigh between 355-360,

    Love the st Vincent as well, friend owns it, imo this is easier to hit with than my tgk and my k90, that plow through feeling amazing
     
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  27. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

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    Thats a great point lukhas. Searching by the numbers caused me to miss specs that actually work better for me.

    I basically ended up .5 ounces lighter than my old school sticks, and with a little higher SW, same balance.

    I have 3 sticks and they are all a gram or 2 off in weight, but it doesnt matter since they all feel the same when I hit with them. Zero adjustment needed.
     
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  28. MikeHitsHard93

    MikeHitsHard93 Hall of Fame

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    I agree with you. I picked up that 6.1 the other day and it just felt like "home". No adjustment needed, I could play the game I wanted to play, I could hit all the shots, and I definitely thought about checking the bay for one of these sticks. So now I am looking at similarly weighted frames because I know what I like. Some people go nuts with their spec-searching, and I can attest to that because I used to be one of them lol.

    I feel like a headlight balance really helps on serve. Which makes rackets like this appealing to many people.
     
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  29. v-verb

    v-verb Hall of Fame

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    I'm an elfin 5'7" and 160lbs.

    I have zero issues using my Pro Staff 85 (366 g) and Pro Staff 88 (375 g).

    Their balance is head light - very easy to swing and hit very heavy balls. Strangely the weight does a lot of the work when it's in motion. Unlike the light sticks
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2013
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  30. monomer

    monomer Rookie

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    The real test is how the racquet works for you when you are a bit tired and/or playing someone a level above you. I'm very comfortable with a 90 in the situation you mention above. I come back to reality when playing someone better than me.
     
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  31. Mick3391

    Mick3391 Professional

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    Best post.

    Yea PS 90 is GREAT to "Hit" with, but in heated matches, something a little bigger is certainly beneficial unless you are a gazelle.

    I noticed this coming back into play, LOVE the 90, but in extreme play, circumstances like barely getting to the ball, that extra head size with power, the ability to just pop it back over is certainly better than an outright miss.
     
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  32. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

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    lol the opposite actually. everyone on here is using a 90head size leaded up to 15 some oz and hits at 4.5 or above. noones using a OS stick here. its TT!
     
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  33. lawrencejin

    lawrencejin Rookie

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    Haha as always, the general public and TT members are at the opposite ends of the spectrum. The former cares too little about equipment; the latter cares too much.
     
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  34. JRstriker12

    JRstriker12 Hall of Fame

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    I don't think most players are afraid of player's sticks, I think most people have limited money to spend on rackets and are looking for something that they think can immediately help their game.

    While a ps85 or 6.1 can be extremely rewarding, odds are most players aren't going to feel like they get an immediate boost from those sticks, while some of the stiffer, lighter rackets can make you feel like you're hitting rocket winners when you pick them up.

    As an example, I had a friend who used to play with hyper hammer (forgot which model, but it was more of a tweener) and he used to beat me. He picked up a k6.1 and it was just too much stick for him. I don't think he's beat me since he made the switch. I also remember that he pulled a muscle in his arm the first time we went hitting with the K6.1 - LOL!

    On the flip side of that, I went from a bargain bin Wilson Blitz, to a PDR. Don't get me wrong, IMHO the PDR is a pretty good stick, but once I started playing a lot more I wanted something with a bit more control and ended up with a microgel prestige pro. So go figure, it was more of a journey to finding what I liked.

    Honestly, I don't think I would have been better off with the prestige as my first stick. Maybe if I started off with a solid schedule of practice and professional instruction, starting off with a "players" stick may have been better.
     
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  35. Timbo's hopeless slice

    Timbo's hopeless slice Hall of Fame

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    well, except for little old me with my granny stick pancake pan Volkl.

    (seriously, someone in another thread called it a pancake pan!)

    what would I know, though? :neutral:
     
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  36. max

    max Hall of Fame

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    This carries some explanatory force. Experienced players have a good eye for the ball trajectory and get a start at going to the strike point, they get the racquet head back early and can take a full and slower, more deliberate swing. Less experience means playing a bit of catch up, and swinging a bit later, so a lighter frame makes good sense.

    The reason old guys start using lighter frames is because they get a later start on the ball.
     
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  37. HRB

    HRB Professional

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    Excellent point, being 6'1" and over 215 (but should be 205 LOL) I always have to factor in that what people call "heavy" and "demanding" has to be adjusted. Just like tennis shoes lasting 6 months sadly means 3 for me!!!

    I simply feel like I'm playing with a toy below 11.7oz, and prefer 12-12.5. Light racquets also make me sloppy, since preparation is merrily a flip of the wrist.

    I've own every 6.1 95 incarnation (16X18) prior to the BLX crap (K, Nano, Hyper) and every time I pick up the Classic SI I wonder why I don't just put the others on the bay and just grab a few more Classics while they are out there.
     
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  38. gopokes

    gopokes Rookie

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    I gave an older lady some lessons last summer - she was playing one of those 9 oz 115 sq/in frames and spraying balls everywhere. I gave her one of my redondos and she began to play with much more control - the extra weight of the frame helped to slow her down and made it harder for her to incorporate wrist into her strokes...ultimately she went back to her light frame because her husband had bought it for her - I also didn't want to crap-talk her frame too much, but silently, it was a moment of enlightenment for me in terms of teaching folks how to play. I think rackethead speed becomes less important at the senior level - it's more about good mechanics, touch, and movement.
     
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  39. HRB

    HRB Professional

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    BTW...I still get fatigued and "old and slow" by a 3rd set, so my solution is try to win in 2 sets with what you love (PS 6.1 95's), but if you go to a 3rd. have a little more forgiving and slightly lighter stick to bring it home with (for me Prestige Pro).

    Won quit a few matches with the third set "change up", best part is the pissed look from opponents floored you can go from stick to stick with no drop in play.
     
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  40. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

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    haha. well you are in the minority. and you prove my point. you say you play a OS and it becomes like 'omg you suck you are playing with a pancake pan" its so sad
     
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  41. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

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    exactly my point. us TT guys are just hilarious. beyond belief. some of teh stuff i cant even believe and i am reading it hahahha
     
    #41
  42. HRB

    HRB Professional

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    Agree...I've improved many of my friends games by taking away their toys and having them hit with something real over 11.5! Selfish reason was to have a better time hitting with them,got sick of returning weak, loopy, topspin shots.
     
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  43. Timbo's hopeless slice

    Timbo's hopeless slice Hall of Fame

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    you'd better get on to those wimpy kids Nadal and Co..

    this place cracks me up.

    tournament I played at the weekend, finalists are both top 100 national ranked singles players, one uses standard Blades (the older gold/black ones) and the other guy plays with Dunlop Biomimetic 600s!!!

    imagine how good they would be with 'player's racquets'!!!

    (falls off chair, laughing too hard)
     
    #43
  44. eelhc

    eelhc Hall of Fame

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    Interesting thread. Particularly since I'm considering a new stick:

    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=460126

    I am presently playing with an OS (Babolat Y105) and I am looking for more control. For sure i need to improve my game and get more consistent but the Babolat seems to me it's too much power. I have to consciously take a quite a bit off my swing otherwise I'm hitting it out. I'm a fit 6ft 190lbs with average strength for a guy my size. The Babolat is 9.5oz unstrung (feels lighter) and stiff. I'm wondering if I wouldn't benefit from a heavier, more control oriented stick.
     
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  45. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Wilson_Pro_Staff_60_85/descpageRCWILSON-W6085.html
     
    #45
  46. JRstriker12

    JRstriker12 Hall of Fame

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    Make sure you demo a lot. Going from the Y105 to a lower powered stick can be a big change and may require a change in your swing style that you may or may not be willing to make (depending on time and patience).

    I think the general guideline is to use the heaviest racket you feel comfortable using.

    I'm not a big believer in a single magic stick so try a wide range to see what you like. Don't rule out "tweeners", just because one person loves a Wilson K88 doesn't mean it will be the stick for you.
     
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  47. MikeHitsHard93

    MikeHitsHard93 Hall of Fame

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    ^agreed. I would try: head radical mp, prestige mp, Wilson six one 95, and babolat pure storm
     
    #47
  48. Relinquis

    Relinquis Hall of Fame

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    if you want to stick to Babolat, it might be worth checking out the Pure Storm Tour GT ... http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Babolat_Pure_Storm_Tour_GT/descpageRCBAB-BPSTR.html

    It's not so heavy and small that it will be demoralising (unlike some sub 90" sticks), but at the same time it will encourage you to take full swings at the ball and position yourself well.

    It's a 98" stick (not too small) and will be something you can use as you get better and better. It's also, less stiff than your current stick.

    also, you'll find that you as you get better in terms of skill, you'll be able to control your lighter sticks by closing the racquet face, or by adding spin and such.
     
    #48
  49. tmc5005

    tmc5005 Rookie

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    I could not agree more. Lower level players tend to have more arm problems not only because their form is not as good as advanced players and many have not developed the right muscles, but also because they are discouraged from using players racquets which tend to be recommended for advanced players when these racquets are also the most arm-friendly. I don't think beginners and intermediate players really want to be using the racquets that are hardest on their arms, but that is what they are told to use.
     
    #49
  50. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    So true PP. True test is match play against someone a little better than you.
     
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