Players should take some chances on Federer's 1st serve

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by fastdunn, Aug 20, 2007.

  1. fastdunn

    fastdunn Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    6,294
    I think Federer's serve (especailly 1st serve) is the best on tour right now.
    It may not have a pace of Roddick but its accuracy/disguise/variety
    paralyzes his opponents.

    However, I think Federer's serve is somewhat under-estimated by players.
    I think players should consider Fed's 1st serve as Sampras and take some chances.
    I think players should make a guess and commit to one side.
     
    #1
  2. gsquicksilver

    gsquicksilver Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2006
    Messages:
    645
    Location:
    SoCal
    what are you trying to say actually?:confused:
     
    #2
  3. The tennis guy

    The tennis guy Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2004
    Messages:
    2,625
    Several players who had never played Federer before commented on Federer's game after playing him the first time this year. They said the biggest surprises to them were Federer's first serve. They aren't super fast, but impossible to pick them up.

    Not sure about taking chances on his first serve, but they definitely need to be aggressive on returning second serve, thus putting more pressure on his first serve.
     
    #3
  4. kingkong

    kingkong Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2007
    Messages:
    50
    haas has a better serve than federer
     
    #4
  5. fastdunn

    fastdunn Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    6,294
    In the 90's of great servers, great returners often pre-committed
    to one-side (either forehand/backhand) to return 1st serves.

    They do everything from reading service motion/serving pattern.

    Federer's serve is being under-estimated. I think you gotta
    guess on which way Federer would serve his 1st serve and gamble
    on it. Otherwise it's pretty impossible to make aggressive returns...

    Well, Fed's serve goes off sometimes but most of times, I think it's
    his best weapon right now.
     
    #5
  6. Nadal_Freak

    Nadal_Freak Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2006
    Messages:
    10,625
    Location:
    Harker Heights, Texas
    The best way to returns Federer's serve is Nadal's way. Stand way behind the baseline to give you more time.
     
    #6
  7. fastdunn

    fastdunn Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    6,294
    #1 reason why Nadal lost at Wimbledon 2007 was Federer's serve.
     
    #7
  8. Photoshop

    Photoshop Professional

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2007
    Messages:
    893
    Location:
    Florida
    fastdunn, you still haven't answered my question. What's up with the excessive use of the enter key?
     
    #8
  9. tennispro11

    tennispro11 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2007
    Messages:
    1,586
    Location:
    Kansas
    Dude your weird. I am not even going to say what a dumb thread this is. When do you players not commit to a side on his serve? :confused: :confused:
     
    #9
  10. fastdunn

    fastdunn Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    6,294
    pre-commit. pick one-side and move to that side just before serve is hit.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2007
    #10
  11. fastdunn

    fastdunn Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    6,294
    no clue what you're talking about....
     
    #11
  12. tennis_hand

    tennis_hand Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2006
    Messages:
    4,427
    he certainly has improved his 1st serve percentage.

    he is protecting himself. as he gets older, he needs a good first serve to end games faster. he can't do endless rallies any more against the youngsters.
    that is the exact reason people say nadal can't last past 25: mediocre serves + endless rallies. the rallies won't work any more once he can't move that fast.
     
    #12
  13. J-man

    J-man Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2005
    Messages:
    4,053
    It's very hard to take chances on Federer's first serve. You do want to take you chances against him (for example on the second). But on the first it is very diffcult to pick up and read. It's hard to commit, like you've said to Federer's first serve.
     
    #13
  14. Nadal_Freak

    Nadal_Freak Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2006
    Messages:
    10,625
    Location:
    Harker Heights, Texas
    Nadal broke Federer many times. Nadal couldn't hold his own serve. The real problem is Nadal's serve isn't big enough.
     
    #14
  15. krz

    krz Professional

    Joined:
    May 23, 2007
    Messages:
    889
    Location:
    Concrete Jungle Where Dreams are Made
    His serve is good and underated. But its not the best. Roddick, Karlovic, Ljubacic(sp?) just to name a few all have better hold percentages with no where near the ground game Federer does.
     
    #15
  16. daddy

    daddy Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2007
    Messages:
    5,686
    Location:
    Moon Balls
    Dont look back at peoples comments, I was thinking the same when I saw djokovic match at montreal. He aced him like 15 - 16 times and djoko has a fast probably faster and flatter serve and will improve. Fed reads the serve well but he is a master in tennis.

    SO Id say if you are experienced player you can pick sides sometimes on important points, more to the middle where all the greats aced when they were in though spot. Like becker and Sampras and Federer now etc. But you saw young djoko picknig up aces like peanuts ! He was not near close to many of those suggeesting he tried to do what you say - read the serve, but remember federers flick on the serve ? Sooooo hard to read, thats why people just stay there and hope they will be able to get a racquet to it somehow and at least pit it back decently, when he hits a angle ol line ast 190kph its an ace.
     
    #16
  17. daddy

    daddy Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2007
    Messages:
    5,686
    Location:
    Moon Balls
    I am sure if you calculate the serve by percentage, speed and holding the serve ( seems to be the way to go, by all means ) - then these guys have better serve. Remember how many times you hear, true champion, pulls an ace just when its most important !!!

    That is the difference, now would I say he has a better serve or better mentality to use his not so good serve to full potential ? Id say hes non beatable when flying in with 70% on first serve and Id say all these guys are beatable when serving 95% ..

    SO stop the analysys of the who is the best server, since it does not matter, it matters who wins and who is better overall. The thread was about should people pick sides when facint his unpredictable serve or try to react on it and go along as when playing nadal or whoever else has lighter serve.
     
    #17
  18. tennispro11

    tennispro11 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2007
    Messages:
    1,586
    Location:
    Kansas
    Well done! I said this thread was useless at the beginning. LOL! It just didn't make any sense to me. :confused:
     
    #18
  19. fastdunn

    fastdunn Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    6,294
    Guys like Agassi did gamble on 1st serves of Becker,Ivanesvich and Sampras.

    I think Djokovic did gamble on it at the tiebreaker.
    Very smart move. You only need 1 success at tiebreaker while you need
    a few more to break a service game...

    Federer's serve is sneaky quick and allures you to believe you can re-act on it.
    Well it's not.. Federer's serve is the best in the game. They will need to
    gamble on it...
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2007
    #19
  20. Sennin

    Sennin New User

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2005
    Messages:
    61
    Location:
    Flushing, NY
    Just FYI I think
    it's because
    on a large screen
    your posts look
    like this
    so don't hit
    the enter key. :p
     
    #20
  21. AM28143

    AM28143 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2007
    Messages:
    512
    Karvolic serve is better than Federer's. No question. Did you see that 1st round match in Montreal? Federer, a great returner, could not even get 15 percent of Karvolic's 1st serves back, it was utterly amazing.
     
    #21
  22. TennezSport

    TennezSport Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2006
    Messages:
    1,885
    Location:
    Northern NJ, USA
    Well.........

    That strategy (of standing back on the return) might work on clay and even the slow grass courts, but not on fast HC. Standing so far back on HC opens up the angle serves and if you can get to them, turns you into a human yoyo on court coverage; also makes you an easy target for the drop shot. Rafa makes up for it with his foot speed and determination, but at what price??? This is one of the main reasons why Rafa does not do well on fast HC.

    Feds serve like Petes is very well disguised and not only with placement but also with speed and spin. Feds first serve has been as high as 135mph and kickers as slow as 90mph; add in a little slice and TS. Mix those elements together as well as Fed does and you will keep your opponents off balance like a FUN HOUSE ride (as Pat Mc would say).

    TennezSport :cool:
     
    #22
  23. daddy

    daddy Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2007
    Messages:
    5,686
    Location:
    Moon Balls
    I have 21" tft, wtf do you have when his post look like that ? And stop the who has better serve once and for all, who is karlovic for cchrist sakes ? 2.10cm guy who cant run 100m below 15 secs. Get a clue , winner is the one who gets to two or three sets first.
     
    #23
  24. daddy

    daddy Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2007
    Messages:
    5,686
    Location:
    Moon Balls
    While at serves, nadal has one of the most usefull kick serves around .. Just thought I should say this because people may think his serve is useless. And its not, especially the 2nd.
     
    #24

Share This Page