Playing against a MUCH better opponent to improve your game?

[Rubens]

Ok, so I'm a 3.5 and there's this 5.0 guy at my local club. As my goal is to improve my game quickly, I like to hit with higher level players. But this one is special. He only agrees to hit with me if he can go all-out against me (attempting a winner on every shot, which he succeeds in doing against me of course). That's just the way he likes to play against everybody, and it doesn't bother me at all. No pressure on me, being a much lower level player. And it doesn't bother him either, because most of the players at the club are at my level, and he has a really hard time finding hitting partners here. So we do hit quite often with each other.

Our 'rallies' go like this:
He starts the rally. If I send back anything less than a nearly perfect attacking shot, he punishes me with a 'killing shot' (either a super fast shot, or topspin that bounces up 15 ft in the sky, or a slice that goes to the furthest corner of my court side, or a ridiculously short drop shot). Of course, because of level difference, the 'killing shot' happens at least 80% of the time. Usually, my response is a really bad shot, or I don't even hit the ball. But this doesn't bother me at all, as I said earlier. In fact, I like it because it gives me an idea of what it takes to play at that level.

I can see some benefits from hitting against this guy. First, it really helped me develop my movement. It also gives me good motivation to develop an offensive power-oriented game (kill or be killed). Whenever I manage to win a point against him, it's because I sent him a REALLY good shot, with good technique and power, to prevent him from setting up his attack. It happens very rarely, but I get a huge kick out of it when it does, because then I can set up my attack and even win the point sometimes. So that's all good. But I've been thinking lately, could this hurt my game in the long run? After all, 80% of the time I end up making a bad shot (with bad technique, from hitting late). And because the points are all very short, there is no rallying, no cooperative hitting, no rhythm. It's like a barfly in the ring against Mayweather Jr. Yet, I HAVE seen some improvement in my game when going back to my 3.5 hitting partners. But I don't know if my improvement really comes from hitting with this guy or if it's because of my hitting with my 3.5 partners.

So what do you guys think? Do you think hitting with this guy can help me develop my game faster? Or do you think I'd improve faster by having long rallies with my 3.5 partners?

Sorry for the long post, and thanks for your help.

 

[atai]

Honestly, I think you're better off with long rallies with your 3.5 partners. It's great that he's ok playing with you. With him going "all-out", though, you're barely getting a racquet on the ball and he's not getting any meaningful rallies . That's no fun at all, much less helpful, for either of you guys. I dunno, sounds like your 5.0 friend gets a kick out of blasting his lower-level practice partners off the court.

What would be better is if he works on technique and just getting the ball back to you; e.g. he just hits only to the center at 3/4 speed. e.g. you see pros doing this in their practices, so it's not an unreasonable request. Or he could practice serves on you--he doesn't have to collect balls while you get good practice on return of serve.

 

[Rubens]

sounds like your 5.0 friend gets a kick out of blasting his lower-level practice partners off the court.

I agree. After all, he HAS to get something out of it. But whenever I manage to mount an attack and win a point against him, the feeling is incredible. To see him, the great 5.0, reduced to a retrieving mode, and to run him around and then to finish with a winner of my own, damn! I feel bloodlusty just thinking about it! And whenever I hit a winner, I celebrate like I've just won Wimbledon. So I guess we do annoy each other a little, but it's all in good fun

 

[spaceman_spiff]

I would keep playing with the 5.0 in addition to hitting with other people. Also with the 5.0, see if he's willing to play a set or some tiebreaks in addition to the rally games so that you can get more practice serving against a solid returner and returning solid serves.

When you're hitting with the 5.0, focus on keeping your swing compact, moving your feet, and getting depth on your shots. When you're playing points, pay attention to what types of serves help you win points and which serves don't (angles are your friend).

When you're hitting with other people, you'll feel like it's all in slow motion and you can do whatever you want with the ball. In those situations, keep focusing on your technique and movement while also thinking about point construction. Don't just hit the ball to be hitting the ball. Hit the ball with some sort of purpose in mind.

 

[SpinToWin]

I personally would look for a better player closer to your level, say a 4.0 or a 4.5. The 5.0 will likely be so much better that you do not get the benefit of playing with a higher level as your own level is too low to match (or keep up with) his, even temporarily. I've played with very high level players and there was no point really. I was going all out on my shots to even keep up and they could exploit even the slightest gap in my play. I get the best results when playing a player that is marginally better than I am.

I am (from what I have read regarding NTRP) somewhere around 5.0 and I played players that would be at least 6.0. I was just scrambling around the court playing most of my shots off balance or out of position. Great practice for defense, but not for developing your game in a broader sense I'd say.

 

[syc23]

It's the only way to force you to improve beyond your current level by playing against players much better than you. The rallies are more consistent, they hit a bigger ball, it forces you to improve your defense no end and you start to apply strategy and understand placement and keeping the error count low trumps going for the hero winner shot every time.

It doesn't matter what level of players I play now, my strategy is simple, I aim to serve to both corners and hit into the open court, in mid rally, I'll try and runaround my BH to dictate with the FH despite my BH being my stronger wing. Rinse and repeat. Repetition is the mother of skill.

 

[sovertennis]

No. What's the point?

 

[cincyMike]

I don't see anything wrong with hitting with this guy now and then, like some have pointed out you can try to learn strategies to not give him balls to kill and what not, at the same time at your level I would be working on developing consistency and playing someone who is going for outright winners on every point is not going to help you in that department.

I got back into tennis about a year ago and the best thing I did was start off in the 4.0 division instead of going straight to 4.5. I had taken a 10 year hiatus and wasn't sure where my game was. Playing against guys who keep a lot of balls in play gave me so much consistency to my game that I am now playing at such a high 4.5 level that I went 14-1 in 4.5 my first season moving up. I don't think I would have had those results without all of that match play at the 4.0 level.

I do play now and then with a guy who plays at the Challenger level, as fun as it can be to try to win points and games off those guys I personally feel like the shots he hits and the depth and pace is just something that I only see when I play him and it really doesn't do me as much good as playing guys at a similar level to myself. I have learned a few strategy things and really have to focus on not hitting him short balls, but that is much easier said than done when you are not given one gimme shot the whole match. ha.

 

[willeric]

I think it's pretty pointless and will make you think you are better than you are. It's much harder to beat players that you think you are better than (see all the pusher threads), than "play good" against a much superior player. Playing against a much superior player will teach you that errors don't matter and that you need to come up with the impossible shot. If you bring that game to opponents at your level, you will lose big.

It would be better to make sure you can beat all the 3.0 and 3.5 "pushers".

 

[Maximagq]

It never hurts to play with better players.

 

[LakeSnake]

It never hurts to play with better players.

It could if you tried to go to net and they were sadistic!

 

[cincyMike]

I've always felt like .5 point in either direction is a good rule of thumb. I am a 4.5 player and although I haven't yet lost to a 4.0 player I have had some very fun and competitive matches, at the same time I have also been competitive with some 5.0 players usually a break of serve in each set being the difference. I personally would not enjoy playing a full point below and I would stand no chance against a full point above, to that same point they would probably feel like they were wasting their time with me.

I think it is very beneficial to face players with a diverse style as well from power hitters to spin players to junk ballers, because when you get into competitive play you will come across all of these styles and having practiced against all of them will make your game more solid and you won't lose matches you shouldn't.

 

[Cobaine]

I think it would only hurt your game if you played with the 5.0 exclusively, because you won't have the skill set (or strategy) to beat the 4.0 grinders, 3.5 junkballers, 4.5 hugeserveandforehandbutnobackhanders, etc.

But, if you practice with a wide range of people, then playing with the 5.0 will certainly help.

 

[RetroSpin]

Good: you go into a match knowing no one is going to hit the ball harder than you've seen in practice.

Bad: you don't develop the ability to rally and stay in a point.

Possible bonus: get him to serve to you. It is difficult at your level to get people with premium serves to let you practice returns, unless you are paying them.

The ideal way to utilize this opportunity would be to be taking lessons and practicing a lot. Then you can use these sessions as a way to measure your progress.

 

[Rubens]

Ok, so it looks like anything more than a .5 difference would be past the point of diminishing returns then.

I'll find some 4.0's to practice with. But still, I'll hit with the 5.0 at least once a month. Just for that rush that I get whenever I hit the occasional winner. I'm a junkie for that.

Thanks for the advice!