please critique my serve (with video)

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by Ano, Jul 24, 2009.

  1. Ano

    Ano Hall of Fame

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    I consider my self a 4.0.

    My favorite play is to hit a kick serve wide to the ad court and volley to the open court. I can hit it really wide.

    However, I am not satisfied with the pace of my kick serve.

    Any input on how to add pace to my kick serve? Thanks.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zitj5GG3eU0

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yey0i4KRJro

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKQ7NJggSxA

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qm8hsNIK9n8

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yH-4W1J4QRQ

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pmBxLfsHOM
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2009
    #1
  2. Failed

    Failed Semi-Pro

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    Looking at the video with you serving just one serve where the ball barely touches the line and the kick is good doesn't really ask to be critiqued. It looks like you want a tap on the back by just posting one serve :/ Its nearly impossible to critique your serve by just looking at one serve. If you want more speed to your serve then simply try to move your weight more into the court. Your leg kicks to the right which tells me that your weight is moving right. So direct it more into the court which should lead into more power.

    P.S. I am jealous if you can place it with that spin and hit it consistently.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2009
    #2
  3. Mike Cottrill

    Mike Cottrill Hall of Fame

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    Ano,
    You inputs in the health section are great. Great contribution to the board.
    When you are moving to the return it sounds like you are landing flat on your feet causing that slapping sound.

     
    #3
  4. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    What is there to critique? You hit one serve.
     
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  5. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Well, your footwork approaching the net was garbage. You aren't queuing for a buffet, bust your ass up there, split step then attack the volley.
     
    #5
  6. Nellie

    Nellie Hall of Fame

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    Well - You are landing and falling to the left, trying hit the ball to the right - meaning you are getting no weight or energy from the body into that serve

    Also, you have opened your shoulders too early so, although you have a deep knee bend, jump, and start turned to the ball, you end up hitting almost entirely with your arm. In fact, because of your racquet path, you end up hitting the serve entirely with the wrist. Try hitting without the knee bend, shoulder turn and back scratch some time and you will see that you get almost exact the same force.


    so try -
    tossing slightly further into the court (20cm) toward the intended target.

    moving up and through the ball at the intended target, so that you land moving forward toward the net.

    staying sideways for a little longer so that the extension of your arm, and the rotation of the shoulders and body are coordinated to provide force to the serve.
     
    #6
  7. Double bagel

    Double bagel Banned

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    errr...how about a longer video.:-?
     
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  8. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Nellie's suggestions excellent...
    Also, your takeback has the racket waaaaaay too high, so you lose power and rackethead speed. Lower it so your hands are shoulder or below, below is better because it allows you to hit UP on the ball from a lower hand position.
    High is used really only by MartinaNav, and she had shoulder problems.
    You don't look tall, so maybe kicks in the mid 70's is very good pace.
     
    #8
  9. volusiano

    volusiano Hall of Fame

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    Ano, just want to say it's nice to see the man behind all those great posts in the health section live on video. You look as fit as I imagine you would!
     
    #9
  10. WildVolley

    WildVolley Legend

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    You seem to have a very nice racket drop, but the finish to your serve seems awkward. With both your arm and leg going way out to the side on the right while your body falls into the court on the left.

    Here's my advice (take it for what you will). Turn your shoulders further to the right at the start of the serve. That way, your shoulders won't be almost parallel to the net at contact, but at more of an angle to the net. I think this will allow you to accelerate a little harder into the ball, still kick the serve, but make your recovery quicker and your follow through more to the center of your body and with better balance.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2009
    #10
  11. charliefedererer

    charliefedererer Legend

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    I would agree with others that the biggest potential to increase your racquet speed would be to rotate your shoulders/core back further around before beginning the forward part of your swing.
    Also thanks for all the information on the health and fitness site. Welcome back.
     
    #11
  12. ryangoring

    ryangoring Professional

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    I love you.:shock: lol
    I love the way you let them have it.
    You must be a coach or just a smart ***, J/K, or did you stay at a Holiday Inn last night.
    J/k J/k
    I like your input on these boards especially on people.
    Hopefully you can coach me!!!
     
    #12
  13. Team_Volkl

    Team_Volkl New User

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    Honestly OP, there's nothing to critique. Your serve meets every requirement that needs to take place:

    1) Good ball toss.

    2) Weight transfer from back foot through front foot.

    3) Proper racquet face contact with the ball.

    However you achieve these three things, that's all that you need and how you get there is up to you and your style.

    credit for this LOVELY bit of information goes to:

    canadave

    ^^ This guy knows perhaps too much about serving, hah.
     
    #13
  14. Ano

    Ano Hall of Fame

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    Guys, thanks for all your suggestions.

    I try to post another video, right now I am having trouble uploading the video to youtube.

    Again, thanks for your all your advices.

    Really appreciated.


    Ryano.
     
    #14
  15. Ano

    Ano Hall of Fame

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    Oh, btw, I am 5'9", weighing around 163-165 pounds.

    My kick serve have been measured with a radar gun at around 50-60 Mph.

    I would be happy if I could hit it at around 70 Mph.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2009
    #15
  16. Ano

    Ano Hall of Fame

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  17. Ano

    Ano Hall of Fame

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    #17
  18. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

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    Why do you preset your serve, Ano?
     
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  19. Ano

    Ano Hall of Fame

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    Hi mate, I don't understand what you meant with "preset" ?

    Sorry, but English is not my primary languange.
     
    #19
  20. Ano

    Ano Hall of Fame

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    Thanks for your reply. Actually, I can place it wide consistently. I just can't get enough pace.

    Here's another video :

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qm8hsNIK9n8
     
    #20
  21. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

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    Why do you set up your racquet before you toss the ball?
     
    #21
  22. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    It's my primary language and I have no idea what he's on about :lol:
     
    #22
  23. Ano

    Ano Hall of Fame

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    I have a problem to fix that bad habit.

    I tried to bring my tossing arm and racket arm together, but always end up with the racket arm raised faster than the tossing arm.
     
    #23
  24. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

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    I'm gonna get you for that, pvau.
     
    #24
  25. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Actually, I see exactly what Rickson is saying. I think Ano's motion is a product of a traditional coach. They usually try to teach parts of the serve as independent pieces, and Ano is starting in the back-scratch position like lots of younger players do. Unfortunately, he's got so much potential to have a beastly kick, it's holding him back. Listen to what LeeD said, he helped me greatly.
     
    #25
  26. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Lol :D :D :oops:
     
    #26
  27. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Speaking of Ano, you do know that ano is "a nus" in Spanish, right?
     
    #27
  28. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

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    Ano is Inodnesian and the number 1 advisor in the health & fitness section. I've been filling in for him while he was on vacation, but I'm hoping he takes his old job back.
     
    #28
  29. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    I'm not one for blood chokes anyway my friend, striking is where it's at.

    That's neither here nor there, however.
     
    #29
  30. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    The serve you are talking about is actually one of my best. If my back isn't bothering me, I can hit it in the ad court up the sideline and into the side fence at about 110.

    Here are some of my various serves, you will have to wait through or fast forward through the first 6 or 7 until you get to the ones we are talking about.

    http://vimeo.com/4678697

    For you, the first thing I would reccomend in getting more MPH on the kicker is tossing a bit further into the court.

    The second thing is bring your racquet back all the way until you can feel a bit of pec stretch, and set up so that your hitting shoulder is lower than your tossing shoulder, and your hip is into the court over the baseline.

    Your racquet drop is OUTSTANDING, probably due to your awesome level of flexibility and fitness. So there is no reason you should not be able to absolutely serve the cover off the ball. Pronation is very nice too.

    So setting up as I am saying, with putting your front hip forward out into the court, when you bend your knees, instead of just going straight down as you do now, and setting your shoulders so the hitting shoulder is lower than the tossing shoulder, will set up the shoulder over shoulder rotation required to get pace on the ball, and still bring it down into the court. This coupled with the toss further into the court will get you the MPH.

    Now I have a VERY steep shoulder tilt, and yours need not be as severe, but the hitting shoulder should be noticably lower.

    Observe the difference I am talking about.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    J
     
    #30
  31. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Another unrelated thing Ano: for being in outstanding shape, your footwork needs some work. Pick up a jumprope, work split step drills, do something, because when watching you guys hit, it's like to hit the ball then step around aimlessly until the next ball comes. Come on man, I know you've got quick feet, stay on your toes.
     
    #31
  32. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    Also, what grip do you use.

    In the racquet drop, I don't understand what you are doing to get the racquet face paralell to your back instead of perpendicular.

    Observe.

    [​IMG]

    Compared to.

    [​IMG]

    J
     
    #32
  33. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    AH-HA! I see it now, just had to look at the pics side by side.

    You are folding your arm up behind you because you are starting your racquet drop from behind your head instead of away from your body.

    That is why your racquet goes all up, and no forward.

    From your racquet drop position you have nowhere to go but straight up. If you tried to go forward to generate more pace, you would hit yourself in the back of your head with the butt of your racquet.

    J
     
    #33
  34. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    [​IMG]
    This is a tasty looking trophy pose, nice work brah
     
    #34
  35. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

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    J011y, just out of curiosity. Why don't you go higher on your toes when you serve?
     
    #35
  36. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    I don't understand what you are asking?

    Have you been into the sacremental wine again?

    J
     
    #36
  37. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

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    What is this, a running gag tonight? It's Rickson's not making any sense night. You see how Roddick is clearly on his tippy toes when he serves? When you serve, you seem to be more flat footed than Roddick. I do see you rise on your toes, but not to a Roddick like degree.

    watch the feet
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2009
    #37
  38. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    Oh, I get ya.

    Roddick uses a more narrow base than I do.

    I find it very difficult to balance serving like that because my motion is soooo long, and Roddick's is so quick, so I use a more spread out platform.

    Federer would be a better comparison for me, as far as the feet go (Of course I am not particularly good at tennis so I am hesitant to draw any comparisons.)

    [​IMG]

    J
     
    #38
  39. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

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    You'll get there one day, J011y.
     
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  40. pmata814

    pmata814 Professional

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    J011y, I noticed you have a very high ball toss. Do you toss the same outdoors or do you make height adjustments? (particularly on windy days)
     
    #40
  41. Ano

    Ano Hall of Fame

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    Wow, thanks guys...

    I use between continental and eastern backhand grip for my kick serve.

    I toss the ball further into the court for my first serve, and toss the ball directly above my head for my second serve.

    Jolly made very good points about shoulder tilt and racquet drop.

    I started the thread because I played with a 15 year old junior player last month. The guy only stood 5'2'' and weighed 105 pounds, but his kick serve was faster and bounced higher than mine.

    At that time I knew immediately that my technique was not good.

    Again, I would like to thank all of you for replying this thread. Keep the advices coming..
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2009
    #41
  42. Solat

    Solat Professional

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    as jolly pointed out, your racquet motion is very close to your body and especially the drop which is so close to your back that you need to accelerate upward to avoid your body. The result is excellent spin but less pace.

    once again jolly was spot on with his assessment of your lack of shoulder over shoulder rotation, by setting up with level shoulders you lack the ability to pull down the left elbow efficiently to help launch the right side of the body upward and forward which will greatly improve your racquet speed
     
    #42
  43. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    Ya, I bring rain with my toss even outdoors. I struggle in wind, but any attempt to lower the toss ends in dismal failure, so I have decided just to live with it, and accept it.

    J
     
    #43
  44. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    I will take a look.
     
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  45. maleyoyo

    maleyoyo Rookie

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    Nice serve to begin with. From what I can see, to add more pace you should:
    1. Higher toss and hit it on the way down. Now it seems you hit it on the way up and your arm is not fully extended at contact. It loses a lot of power that way.

    2. By tossing the ball and hitting it higher, you can incorporate more leg drive and your body into the shot. It seems now you use too much "arm". Propel your body up and forward, and lean on to your shot.

    3. Hit through the ball more instead of just brushing it up.

    4. You can be more agressive with you swing to increase raquet head speed.

    5. Loose grip/wrist with good pronation. This is just a guess because you lift weight a lot and you may have tight wrist/grip. I know I do.
     
    #45
  46. Ano

    Ano Hall of Fame

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    Very accurate guess.

    I have been doing a lot of stretching and self-myofascial release (using a tennis ball) for my tight wrist flexor.

    Thanks for your reply.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2009
    #46
  47. Ano

    Ano Hall of Fame

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    Thanks. I really appreciate if you spend a little of your time to give your opinion.
     
    #47
  48. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    If you want to add more pace some of the recommendtions above are good. It is largely in the stall your racquet makes as you toss the ball. You need to toss the ball while your racquet gains momentum which means it is moving.

    Or the other thing you can think of doing is using an abbreviated serve which raises both arms up and you use your leg thrust upward and rotation to help you accelerate your racquet quickly.

    Patrick Rafter is a good model to analyze for the abbreviated serve. He also had one of the toughest kick serves in the business which largely helped him be so successful.

    If you do elect to use an abbreviated motion, make sure you spread your shoulders back and open your chest. This takes pressure off in the shoulder area and you dont pinch off a nerve in when your hitting arm swings to hit the ball. Over time, the nerve can become injured if you are not careful.
     
    #48
  49. Ano

    Ano Hall of Fame

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    Thanks Bill. Much appreciated.
     
    #49
  50. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    ^^^ How goes the practice with it?

    J
     
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