Polarized/Non-Polarized question?

Discussion in 'Pros' Racquets and Gear' started by AJK1, Mar 7, 2010.

  1. corners

    corners Legend

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    I suppose they do. Especially on these boards, where mountains are made of molehills and bones vulture-picked on a regular basis.

    But, I know that professional customizers frequently recommend adding mass to the head/tip to slow down a swing. This is often recommended for juniors that are swinging out of control.

    Adding weight anywhere in the head will raise the swingweight. Raising swingweight, according to nearly everyone who's swung a racquet and cares about such things, and the only studies that have been done on racquet specs and swingspeed, will slow down the swing.

    However, there's also the line of thought that players with grooved strokes will swing any racquet at pretty much the same speed. From there you could conclude that a heavier stick is better, as you'll swing it the same speed anyway, so why not swing a heavier and more stable stick.

    I've also seen comments about lead at the tip helping the frame "come around" quicker, like it's picked up momentum earlier in the swing and is now carrying that momentum into contact. There might be something to that. A physicist could probably tell you, but then he'd likely be hectored off the boards by people lacking curiosity.

    The thing is, most of what we know about the interaction of racquets and players is anecdotal, speculative or theoretical. There isn't much experimental science behind it, so all statements should ideally be made in non-dogmatical terms. But most of us aren't in the habit of qualifying our speech or writing. In my opinion, that's why we end up with train-wreck threads, like this one.
     
  2. Funbun

    Funbun Professional

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    I don't find this necessarily true. Some players actually prefer a depolarized setup when counterpunching. Take Lleyton Hewitt, for example. Or Murray. Murray is questionable, though, but he's in-between, I suppose.

    Also, Federer uses a more polarized setup. Yet, he plays really aggressively at times.
     
  3. (K)evin

    (K)evin Rookie

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    I understand that but look Federer has a polarized setup right? so he gets all of the heavy spin and consistency but it is a diffcult to volley with a polarized setup but he uses a heavy frame at 364 grams (taken from Fedfab) which puts him in the range of 12.7oz-13.5oz.

    read my post more carefully because Idk why you are talking about counterpunching
     
  4. Funbun

    Funbun Professional

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    Nvm. I mistakenly thought you associated weight with polarity.
     
  5. Povl Carstensen

    Povl Carstensen Legend

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    Another way to look at it: With a lower swingweight you have to swing fatser to get the same ball speed (speed x mass).
    I think Murray is a good example. Used to play with a higher swingweight, had a slowish swing (as I saw it) but still good power. Now a bit lower swingweight, and a bit more brisk way of swinging.
     
  6. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    Thank you, splendidly put.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2010
  7. Pioneer

    Pioneer Professional

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    Murray is off-the-hook in terms of polarization. I don't care how many people put him a "depolarized". A "depolarized" racquet won't have a swingweight of 400+ with a weight of 345


     
  8. PED

    PED Legend

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    I believe the 400+ SW was from before 2007 when he had his wrist injury at Hamburg. Supposedly, he's gone down on his SW since then. The latest figure I saw on here re balance was 33.2cm.
     
  9. Pioneer

    Pioneer Professional

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    Still, it's a very light racquet with a very high swingweight. Plus, they stash lead at 12, 3/9 and silicone in the handle which is more towards the tips of the racquet than the throat

     
  10. PED

    PED Legend

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    I totally agree, I really don't like weight at the throat, it deadens the feel for me whenever I've tried it. I like mine at tip and tail ;)
     
  11. Povl Carstensen

    Povl Carstensen Legend

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    What happened to the later pages of this thread?
     
  12. Povl Carstensen

    Povl Carstensen Legend

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    Yes, but dont tell this to Rabbit, he might have a fit.
     
  13. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    No fit here at all. I think it's hilarious. On the one hand, you have the folks who do this for a living trying to tell the collective members of the boards that the terms are bogus (read Ron Yu from P1) and on the other you have the same group completely ignoring him.

    The humor comes in because you guys are trying to elevate something Priority 1 calls 'adding some more here and there' to an Engineering Degree.

    Hey.....polarize away....
     
  14. NBM

    NBM Rookie

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    I think this is a really good and accurate post on all counts.

    You are right about folks w. at least semi grooved strokes tending to swing the racquet at the same speed no matter what the swingweight. I;ve encountered this typically when teaching someone using a higher swingweight racquet. They tend to swing the lighter racquet at the same speed as their heavier racquet and then complain that the racquet lacks plow, is unstable, feels flimsy, no power, and etc. These people tend to want to learn to hit w. more top. I try and get them to use their technique to SWING FASTER, thus creating more batspeed for spin and control and juice.

    Conversely, when someone uses a lighter racquet and experiments w. a heavier one, they try and swing that one at the same speed as well. They can reap benefits by doing this...a more penetrating ball, more power, a heavier ball, etc. the problem is, that consumes more energy if they are using good lower body and core technique...if they have good technique, their arms dont get tired...they lose their legs and wind.

    There also is merit to what you said about weight in the tip tending to help the racquet head pull through once you get it moving. this tends to work from the backcourt, but not so well at net, so perhaps that is a big reason why the pros arent using very headlight racquets these days..they dont volley much.

    Also I think the racquet then typically gets weight added in the handle so that the racquet isnt so much hammer weighted, and that tends to help them quite often w. their serves and return of serve....

    So polarizing a racquet seems to help the serve, the return of serve, and groundstrokes provided the right swingweight for the player is acheived....there really isnt much of a transition game or net game these days to be concerned with setting up a racquet to help that way <more headlight>

    Adding weight to the throat doesnt result in anything close to the above IMO, and is a very inefficient use of additional weight <in general>
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2010
  15. PED

    PED Legend

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    I've generally found this to be true for me. I tend to like my lead at the tip as opposed to at 3 and 9. Lead at the tip does seem to come around quicker for me.

    I would also imagine that swing style as a lot to do with it as well. I use a western FH and take a big cut at the ball so it seems to help me.

    It's all down to personal preference.
     
  16. Funbun

    Funbun Professional

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    I've read his swingweight is around 345-350ish nowadays. It's on the forums somewhere... but he's definitely gone a bit more depolarized. He's even stated in an interview recently that he wants the weight more towards the center.
     
  17. jackcrawford

    jackcrawford Professional

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    Well put, what is also hilarious is that the story has changed without the tellers skipping a beat - the posers started out claiming they had inside knowledge from the top racquet customizers, then when that was shown to be a lie, they say that P1 just doesn't know what it is that they're really doing:shock:
     
  18. welcome2petrkordaland

    welcome2petrkordaland Semi-Pro

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    that's also how I feel. if you naturally (on topspin shots) have lots of racket head speed, have a western and use heavy top, I strongly urge you to try some lead tape at the tip-could be at 12:00, or a 5 or 6 inch strip along the tip including like 10:00 to 2:00. Because your racket head speed is already fast, a little lead will go a long way and make your ball dip into the court, despite taking huge cuts.

    I only use a 3-gram strip from 11:00 to 1:00 and 1/2 a gram at 9:00 and 3:00 (on a Babolat APDC with a thin copoly-Kirshbaum Pro Line II 1.15mm at 55 lbs), and my ball dips and dives into the court, like one of those Pteradactl birds on Avatar. My fh swing, though, is not too unlike Bersetegui's . . . so my grip is rather extreme.
     
  19. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    And let's not forget that when you use the tool here at TW to add weight to a racquet, there are two options given:

    The first is weight in one spot, typically the throat area

    The second is splitting the weight between the handle and hoop.

    Both of these options will yield the desired results.

    The only time there are not two options is when too much weight is required and it must be split or.....shifting the balance point to HH or HL is required.
     
  20. PED

    PED Legend

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    ^^I'm not trying to be argumentative but a stick that's modded with lead at the tip and tail will play differently than one that's modded with lead in the throat: at least in my experience.

    Oh, the balance figures may come out to be the same but it will play differently.

    I can make my apd's balance the same with either lead at 3/9 or lead at the tip, but I've found that the 3/9 lead swings more sluggishly for my style.

    Just my observations. Not sure about the physics involved, I'm more concerned with the end result on the court :)
     
  21. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    ^^^
    No problem here....I would imagine a lot of it is perception as well.
     
  22. 86golf

    86golf Semi-Pro

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    I was thinking that a polarized frame had less glare when it was in direct sun. A non-polarized frame can sometimes blind your opponent.
     
  23. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Yeah even my regular glasses are polarized.
     
  24. Povl Carstensen

    Povl Carstensen Legend

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    That P1 doesnt use the term, does not mean that they share your limited conception of distribution of weight in a racket.
    By the way, I am not using the term either.
     
  25. Povl Carstensen

    Povl Carstensen Legend

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