Poll: Playing competitively against the opposite sex

Discussion in 'Adult League & Tournament Talk' started by penpal, Mar 6, 2012.

?

Can you handle playing a competitive match against a member of the opposite sex?

  1. I'm a woman and I'd enjoy playing against a man competitively

    9 vote(s)
    8.7%
  2. I'm a woman and I'd rather not play against a man competitively

    1 vote(s)
    1.0%
  3. I'm a man and I'd be comfortable losing to a woman

    73 vote(s)
    70.9%
  4. I'm a man and I'd detest losing to a woman

    20 vote(s)
    19.4%
  1. penpal

    penpal Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    302
    Based on where the discussion is headed in this thread I thought a new thread with a poll might be interesting.
     
    #1
  2. floydcouncil

    floydcouncil Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2010
    Messages:
    690
    I think not.....
     
    #2
  3. maggmaster

    maggmaster Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2010
    Messages:
    1,750
    I had a practice partner last year who was an ex college player. She was a great hitter and really helped me get better. We played sets and matches pretty frequently.
     
    #3
  4. Maui19

    Maui19 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2010
    Messages:
    1,655
    Hard to answer because I detest losing to anyone.
     
    #4
  5. Spokewench

    Spokewench Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    May 22, 2008
    Messages:
    588
    I play mixed, I play against men in singles; I've been known to sub into a threesome of men to play dubs. I like the difference in the game from what I see normally playing with women a lot. Playing tennis is just fun - don't care if I'm playing against a man or a woman!
     
    #5
  6. origmarm

    origmarm Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2007
    Messages:
    3,207
    Location:
    London
    I'm happy losing to a women and indeed have lost to many as I'm not that good. I've played some very interesting women though. I have actually had the chance to hit with two slam winners (some time before they had won slams) at one point, though this had nothing to do with my ability to actually play tennis.

    Some of the women play very interesting tennis when playing against a man, especially at the college level. Much more tactical than the men sometimes.
     
    #6
  7. blakesq

    blakesq Professional

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2006
    Messages:
    1,319
    Location:
    Connecticut
    I am not satisfied UNLESS I beat a woman 6-0, 6-0.
     
    #7
  8. user92626

    user92626 Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    6,182
    Is this in singles or doubles?

    At weekend level, it's easy to lose to doubles women who have practiced together though.
     
    #8
  9. cknobman

    cknobman Legend

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2007
    Messages:
    6,076
    Location:
    Saudi Arabia
    Sex of the players should not matter as long as they are equally skilled and competitive against each other on court.
     
    #9
  10. penpal

    penpal Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    302
    Both. In this hypothetical world a 3.5 who happens to be male might play a 3.5 who happens to be female in Singles, or two 3.5s who happen to be men might play Doubles against two 3.5s who happen to be women.

    Writing this out, I suppose an interesting side effect if this were to be put into place is that there would no longer be any such thing as Mixed Doubles. It could certainly occur naturally that a male and female would face off against another male and female, but it would be equally likely that it could be two males against a male/female team, two females against a male/female team, all males or all females in a Doubles match.
     
    #10
  11. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2007
    Messages:
    4,058
    Location:
    NorCal Bay Area
    I would happily play against (or with) anyone regardless of gender as long as we are at the same actual playing level. This goes for singles and dubs.

    I currently don't play mixed because typically the women are noticably weaker than the men, and I just don't enjoy the game when there is such an imbalance in skill (regardless of gender). E.g. in 9.0 mixed most common pairings are 4.5 man + 4.5 woman, or 5.0 man + 4.0 woman; in both cases the woman is significantly weaker. 4.0 man + 5.0 woman is allowable of course and in this case the partners are more equal in actual level, but for some reason this is very rare as a pairing.
     
    #11
  12. josofo

    josofo Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2011
    Messages:
    570
    no problem losing to anyone.


    this is kind of different but i played 7.0 mixed this year and didn't really like it. "because us men r better than the girls
     
    #12
  13. user92626

    user92626 Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    6,182
    In my experience, it's signicantly different between singles and doubles. In singles, I don't know if any female could compete against a male on the same level. If a female is to stand a chance she has to have a noticeable advantage in the technique department. That means, she needs to dictate shots on placement and strategy.

    In doubles, which I play plenty mixed and a few times "pure" female team :), it could go either way!!! Doubles don't require a lot of physical, but favors those who know some tactics, exploitation and teamwork. Two 4.0 women who work well as a team beat 2 random 4.0 men who haven't played together. And remember, from strong 4.0 to below, players always a big hole in their game and techniques.
     
    #13
  14. penpal

    penpal Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    302
    I think I might not have been clear and have caused some misunderstanding.

    I don't mean to say that a woman who is currently rated 3.5 would likely play against a man who is currently rated 3.5. I mean that, in a hypothetical new rating system, a 3.5 player would be competitive with another 3.5 player, regardless of gender.

    For example, Joe, who is currently a 3.0 rated player would get bumped up to 3.5, while Mary, a 3.5 rated player, would remain a 3.5. Of course, that's just an example - the actual modifications necessary would need to be worked out.
     
    #14
  15. Timbo's hopeless slice

    Timbo's hopeless slice Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2011
    Messages:
    4,091
    I lose to women in mixed doubles all the time, lol.

    As for singles, sure, doesn't bother me. There is always someone better than you, and (shock, horror) quite a lot of them are probably women.

    (I'm a 5.0 teaching pro, btw, and trust me, there are plenty of women I know who can beat me. Fortunately, most of them head off on College scholarships or on the pro tour, so I don't have to worry about it for long!)
     
    #15
  16. user92626

    user92626 Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    6,182
    I see that you want a new rating system, specifically two different systems for different genders. I suppose you could, but it needs to be two different ones, with different labels, like A, B, C (women) vs 5, 4, 3 (male). Otherwise,it's confusing and risks being called promoting gender inequality.

    Sport is inherently a competition of the physical. Stronger individuals always prevail.
     
    #16
  17. user92626

    user92626 Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    6,182
    I play at 3, 4 different city courts, associating with dozens upon dozens of players, and in 4 years I have not seen or run into a woman who competes decently in a 4.5 doubles or singles. TV makes it look like there are lots of great female players though.
     
    #17
  18. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2007
    Messages:
    4,058
    Location:
    NorCal Bay Area
    ^^^^^

    Tencap rating system does not discriminate. From another thread:

    You get a number between 0 and 80. Doesn't matter whether you're male or female. And then in theory a person rated 40 = another person rated 40, regardless of gender.
     
    #18
  19. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2007
    Messages:
    4,058
    Location:
    NorCal Bay Area
    I occasionally hit with some female college players from a D1 school. They are not one of the elite powerhouse schools but they are in the top 50. I am a male 4.5 and these girls kick my butt :)

    I sometimes hit with some guys from the men's team and of course they kick the girls' butts!!
     
    #19
  20. user92626

    user92626 Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    6,182
    Awesome, Orange. The left side should be kept hidden from women. Or some sensitive souls will protest "hey! why is my 3.5 skill only equal men's weak 3.0?" "Go to NTRP, the description says they can't even hit a backhand to save their life!" :)
     
    #20
  21. gmatheis

    gmatheis Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Messages:
    1,565
    I would love to find a girl to play with that is just a little better than me. I wouldnt mind losing to her at all.

    Unfotunately I usually seem to find much lower level ones or much higher level ones ... there seems to be a shortage of women that can hang in the 4.0-4.5ish guy range. They all seem to be lower or higher.
     
    #21
  22. Timbo's hopeless slice

    Timbo's hopeless slice Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2011
    Messages:
    4,091
    Sure, but we have a couple of nationally ranked (top 10) 18s girls at our club and an older player (well, she is only early 30s!) who reached the 3rd round at a couple of majors back in the 90s..

    If you can find a 4.5 USTA male who can get a game off any of them, I will be genuinely shocked.
     
    #22
  23. Maui19

    Maui19 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2010
    Messages:
    1,655
    I subbed into a doubles match with some 4.5 women today. It was fun--and good tennis, but I still can't bring myself to drill women, or really smash overheads without worrying about killing someone. It's just the way I'm wired.
     
    #23
  24. user92626

    user92626 Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    6,182
    What level are you that you think you could kill them with overheads?
     
    #24
  25. Fuji

    Fuji Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2010
    Messages:
    6,591
    I don't hit overheads at anyone regardless of gender. It honestly wouldn't take much to pound one at someone and easily injure them.

    -Fuji
     
    #25
  26. Timbo's hopeless slice

    Timbo's hopeless slice Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2011
    Messages:
    4,091
    +1

    The court is pretty big, if you are in position to hit an OH, you ought to be able to find a piece of it where nobody is standing...


    As for teh guy who won't 'drill' it at women, LOL!!!!!

    Any decent one will just volley it for a winner, you doofus..
     
    #26
  27. SweetH2O

    SweetH2O Rookie

    Joined:
    May 11, 2010
    Messages:
    352
    Location:
    Powder Springs, GA
    The local league that uses Tencap sometimes has trouble getting enough higher rated ladies to form their own division. They have started just putting these individual women in the mens divisions according to their Tencap rating. They are generally competitive. I have to play a lady in the league for the first time in a couple of weeks.

    During doubles season, they also let teams be men, women or mixed - all playing against each other. Divisions are only segregated due to a team's Tencap rating. It's a pretty interesting system.
     
    #27
  28. Maui19

    Maui19 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2010
    Messages:
    1,655
    Whatever dude :roll:
     
    #28
  29. penpal

    penpal Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    302
    31 total votes, only two of which are women. Is there a shortage of women in this community?

    The results are lopsided so far in favor of a new "genderless" rating system (I still don't think I'm explaining myself well to user92626, but it seems most get the gist of the poll). Tencap sounds interesting, though for something like this to really work I think it would need to be supported by USTA.
     
    #29
  30. AtomicForehand

    AtomicForehand Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2010
    Messages:
    1,792
    I'm a woman and I prefer playing with men. I often am the only woman in a doubles match. I like playing against guys in singles too. I hit more like a man and think more like a man, and am just more comfortable playing with men. You can be more openly competitive and don't have to hold anything back. It's just more fun, and I think it brings out the best in me as a player.

    I've been told by women opponents several times that I "serve like a man" or "hit like a man," and at best they mean this as a backhanded compliment.

    It pisses me off that we don't use a gender-free rating system. I see no reason whatsoever why men and women of equal skill levels shouldn't compete together and against each other.

    The current system, where a 3.5 guy (for example) is better than a 3.5 woman, smacks of sexism and helps no one. An objective skill standard for 3.5 regardless of the player's sex ought to be easy to implement.

    Let's agitate for change!!!!
     
    #30
  31. josofo

    josofo Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2011
    Messages:
    570


    4.5 cant get a game off a highschool girl. i am kind of shocked by that. when i was like an average 3.5 i could get games off the number 3 singles on d1 team
     
    #31
  32. maggmaster

    maggmaster Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2010
    Messages:
    1,750
    The above is one of those pics or bs statements. I have seen a 12 year old junior blue chip girl beat 4.5 men consistently.
     
    #32
  33. cknobman

    cknobman Legend

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2007
    Messages:
    6,076
    Location:
    Saudi Arabia
    Sorry but I dont agree with you at all. Read my post earlier as I do agree that a 3.5 man and 3.5 woman are equal at a skill level but the physical difference is what kills the match-up and makes things noncompetitive.

    Ive been playing USTA since 2005 and I play mixed every year (plus some WTT) and can say with 100% confidence that almost always its not competitive when men compete vs. women at same USTA level.

    Call me sexist or @sshole but I am being honest and know from experience.
     
    #33
  34. AtomicForehand

    AtomicForehand Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2010
    Messages:
    1,792
    You didn't understand my post in the least.
     
    #34
  35. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2007
    Messages:
    4,058
    Location:
    NorCal Bay Area
    Seriously?!? You must have been one heck of an average 3.5.

    I'm a 4.5 and occassionally hit with girls on the team of a local D1 school. Not one of the top D1 schools but respectable (around #50). I would be fortunate to get 1 game off these girls - maybe 1 service game when I land a couple of aces. That would be about it.
     
    #35
  36. Timbo's hopeless slice

    Timbo's hopeless slice Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2011
    Messages:
    4,091
    I don't think josofo has any idea of the standard of a national top 10 18 year old female..

    Leaving aside the (rather implausible) claim that he could take games from D3 players as a 3.5(!!!), these kids are on a different level anyway. One of them has accepted a place in a top 25 DI school for next year already and the other is still deciding between coaching or going on the tour...
     
    #36
  37. josofo

    josofo Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2011
    Messages:
    570
    no i said d1

    this girl specifically

    http://www.bubearcats.com/index.php/athlete/marina_bykovskaya

    i played her twice 2 sets.


    got games every time (best i did was like 6-3 but honestly never felt like i played a great set vs her) and went like 4-3 in 3.5 that year. it was 2 years ago; she was even cuter back then.

    only thing i noticed was that when she hit with me she was going for her shots like she was sharapova. i didn't watch a lot of her but i noticed most of the girls on the team played a more moonball type style. also both times i felt like i didn't play my best. she was 17 at the time (have long since lost her number) , so maybe she got better. then i thought she was playing like a better 4.5 pushing 5.0. also some of the girls lower on that team golly most average 4.5 would crush them.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2012
    #37
  38. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2007
    Messages:
    4,058
    Location:
    NorCal Bay Area
    I don't know that program at all, so I won't comment, other than on the bolded part. Do you mean she was playing like a female 4.5/5.0, or equivalent to a male 4.5/5.0? Because - newsflash - as an average 3.5 you would not get more than 1 game (if that) per match off a male 4.5/5.0. Even against a female 4.5/5.0, my bet would be at most 2 games (per match, not set). So to me the whole thing still sounds very odd. Unless of course she was not taking you seriously and was just playing around.
     
    #38
  39. josofo

    josofo Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2011
    Messages:
    570


    i meant she was playing like a male +4.5 to 5.0. I used to get lessons from the guy who owned the club up in binghamton when i was a little lower skill level than when i played her. he is rated 5.0 but probably more like 5.5. i only convinced him to play me a few times it was i couldn't win a point type games.

    i have got better since i played her. i took a set off 4.5 mike oconnor of syracuse last year in an open tourney.

    big things for me to get better now is finding better practice partners and getting in better shape.

    i played recently promoted womens 4.5 n doyle (she is the best women in our town who does usta) once last year lost like 6-4 6-3ish (no joke my shoulder was hurting me that day so i couldn't serve hard). one of my practice partners "who i owned the summer before" played with her all the time and he is 3.5 rated 2 believe it or not. and i think they were evenly match. last summer me and him played about even. (though i won the usta match)
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2012
    #39
  40. Angle Queen

    Angle Queen Professional

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2010
    Messages:
    838
    Location:
    On the deuce side, looking to come in
    I'm with Atomic here...although I clearly don't have her skill set. I'd have to go back and look at some of my prior posts, but I believe I have often bemoaned the whole M and W leagues and designations. I think USTA are the folks being slightly disingenuous when they talk about NTRP in gender-less terms yet our leagues are obviously separated by gender AND age.

    And, cknobman, Atomic wasn't saying the NTRP 3.5W is the same as an NTRP 3.5M. In fact, I think she said what you did: the current (NTRP) system has created a world where a 3.5M is usually better than a 3.5W -- mostly because our worlds rarely cross in a match that counts towards our NTRP.

    I've often wondered if a guy (stay-at-home dad or flexible schedule, work-at-home dude) wanted to play in our "Weekday League"...if the league coordinators would have the nerve to keep him off the roster. Conversely, if a working woman wanted to play in the "Weeknight League"...if they'd let her. Too bad I don't have the personal schedule that would allow me...to push that envelope (and PC button!).
     
    #40
  41. jayoub95

    jayoub95 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2010
    Messages:
    600
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    I have played in a comp that has both boys and girls in it. Some girls actually beat heaps of guys tbh. It's not as bad as people think.
     
    #41
  42. AtomicForehand

    AtomicForehand Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2010
    Messages:
    1,792
    Thanks for translating, Angle Queen. ;-)
     
    #42
  43. jdubbs

    jdubbs Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2010
    Messages:
    2,276
    I'm a 4.5, and really the only way I lose to a woman is when my fitness isn't that strong (which unfortunately happens frequently as I find it hard to maintain my cardio) and I'm playing a strong ex-college or even current college player.
    Disclaimer: I haven't hit with top college players, who would probably destroy me, but players from local schools that are low D-1 or D-2.

    These strong women players typically can hit the ball with decent pace but usually don't have a lot of variety, so they are predictable. But they can get the ball back all day long. I usually have too much pace for them and my serve is too big for them to get a bead on when I'm hitting my first serve.

    I really like playing good women players because they don't push/dropshot as much as men do, and really hit out on the ball, which makes for fun rallies.

    No shame in losing to them at all unless I'm playing really poorly.
     
    #43
  44. ian2

    ian2 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2010
    Messages:
    409
    I responded "I'm a man and I'd detest losing to a woman" but hey, it depends on the woman. It would be an honor to lose to some women. And with me being just an average 4.0, there are quite a few women I could lose to and not feel bad.
     
    #44
  45. user92626

    user92626 Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    6,182
    This poll reeks of sexism and yet I don't see anyone protesting. :) It's so wrong to emphasize on losing/winning on the only fact of being a particular sex.

    I can understand if the option is like ..I'm an athletic man and I detest losing to a fat woman. Or reverse. And that's perfectly fine. :)
     
    #45
  46. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    36,283
    Location:
    East side of San Francisco Bay
    Skill and experience.
    As most of you agreed, most women's rating's are close to a full level at the 4.5 men/5.5 women levels, and possibly stretched more for hard hitting winner oriented men.
    Nowadaze, almost every good female tennis player regularly practices with stronger hitting men. You will seldom overpower a solid woman who's a full level above you. At lower levels, you might not be able to overpower a solid playing woman half a level above yours. That's just the way it is.
     
    #46
  47. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Messages:
    7,543
    My fiancee beat me 6-0 6-0 on our first date, and I did not let her win. That was before she told me she played college tennis before she transferred to our school the prior year.
     
    #47
  48. anubis

    anubis Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    3,009
    I regularly play a friend of mine, who happens to be a woman. She's a 3.5 and I'm a 3.0 but we're about evenly matched. That doesn't stop her from hitting plenty of winners at me, and I don't mind at all. We're about even, match-wise. No big deal at all.
     
    #48
  49. Tennishacker

    Tennishacker Professional

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2009
    Messages:
    991
    I too am a 4.5er, and got my butt kicked by junior and college girls.
     
    #49
  50. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2012
    Messages:
    1,968
    I think it's all relative. I think anyone enjoys a competitive game, but I prefer to play men's tennis. However, when I have had the opportunity to hit with college female players, I've done it. And really enjoyed it. They hit at a heavy pace I like and move quick enough that I get a workout from longer rallies.

    To my it's more about comparative skill and athleticism moreso than sex.
     
    #50

Share This Page